[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

So then we agree.

In which case, all of your ramblings in this thread can't really be discussed fully without looking at Apple's cloud services strategy, or lack thereof.

Google's international search infrastructure is a technical marvel. Even if Apple were to match the quality of Google's software in coming up with good search results, they would still need a strategy to create the same sort of infrastructure needed to accomplish what Google has accomplished on the same scale.

It is really hard to see Apple succeeding in this area if they were to venture there tomorrow, if iCloud and its predecessors is any sort of indication as to what to expect from an Apple cloud service.

Apple's a global company in many countries. They have a huge reach. And iCloud is working great for me.

What am I missing by not using Google?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

In that case, Apple is building a niche search engine, rather than a general replacement for google.

Apple is rolling out updates to Siri, which is what you see and what you're referring to. These updates are coming in the form of updates to Siri's code and partnerships with third party data providers. What I'm saying is that Apple is going to release an actual search engine that anyone in the world can choose to use in a browser, and that that search engine and all of its data will be tightly integrated into Siri for smart, voice based web searches, real time answers and other data services.

What I'm saying is that Siri is going to become very smart and the go to service for getting all kinds of information that people seek on a daily basis, without them having to input a bunch of keystrokes and gestures.

That it'll become so useful for questions and answers that gone will be the days where humans have to sit in front of machines... or, almost worse, walk into telephone poles and oncoming traffic staring at a little glorified calculator to get the info they're looking for.

Gone will be the days of traversing huge databases of information with long, ugly blue hyperlinks, hashmarks and user avatars, advertising, and everything else.

All that crap and noise will be abstracted away by something smart like Siri is proposed to be with Apple search on the backend.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Apple's a global company in many countries. They have a huge reach. And iCloud is working great for me.

What am I missing by not using Google?

iCloud has gotten a fair amount of bad press, but I haven't looked into whether this is more frequently software related sync issues, uptime/availability, performance, or whatever else. Siri has gotten bad press too, but the Siri complaints have been with unresponsive servers - surely you've heard of that? Do you remember the difficulties people had with a major iOS update and unable to open a session (or whatever it was) via iTunes? Do you remember the .Mac outages?

iCloud usage is also a drop in the bucket compared to the Google Search infrastructure. You can't just wave your hand and recreate this infrastructure, this has taken Google years and years of management and trying different things to perfect.

Perhaps we should wait and see whether Apple can master anything remotely on the scale of Google Search, such as perhaps Siri on more devices, before we deem them ready and capable to get into cloud services? I'm not saying that they won't eventually figure this out, but it will take time. They aren't there yet, and their strategy and desired scope is not yet clear.

If Apple was really gung-ho about cloud services, shouldn't we have gotten more iCloud related stuff in Mountain Lion? Shouldn't Apple have unveiled an iCloud API at WWDC? Even if an iCloud API would not earn them a direct profit, it would still indicate that they are interested in doing bigger cloudy stuff. They need practice at doing big cloudy stuff, because their history has been hit and miss at best.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

All that payoff and noise will be abstracted away by something smart like Siri is proposed to be with Apple search on the backend.

Not without a more ambitious cloud service strategy it won't be, and not without Apple demonstrating that they are capable of doing stuff at this scale.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

iCloud has gotten a fair amount of bad press, but I haven't looked into whether this is more frequently software related sync issues, uptime/availability, performance, or whatever else. Siri has gotten bad press too, but the Siri complaints have been with unresponsive servers - surely you've heard of that? Do you remember the difficulties people had with a major iOS update and unable to open a session (or whatever it was) via iTunes? Do you remember the .Mac outages?

iCloud usage is also a drop in the bucket compared to the Google Search infrastructure. You can't just wave your hand and recreate this infrastructure, this has taken Google years and years of management and trying different things to perfect.

Perhaps we should wait and see whether Apple can master anything remotely on the scale of Google Search, such as perhaps Siri on more devices, before we deem them ready and capable to get into cloud services? I'm not saying that they won't eventually figure this out, but it will take time. They aren't there yet, and their strategy and desired scope is not yet clear.

If Apple was really gung-ho about cloud services, shouldn't we have gotten more iCloud related stuff in Mountain Lion? Shouldn't Apple have unveiled an iCloud API at WWDC? Even if an iCloud API would not earn them a direct profit, it would still indicate that they are interested in doing bigger cloudy stuff. They need practice at doing big cloudy stuff, because their history has been hit and miss at best.

Give me a list of things I'm missing with iCloud by not using Google's "cloud", whatever you mean by Google's cloud.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Give me a list of things I'm missing with iCloud by not using Google's "cloud", whatever you mean by Google's cloud.

What does this have to do with Google Search? I don't understand your thought process behind this question.

[Waragainstsleep]

As long as Apple let Google rule search on Mac and iOS they are giving away revenue per device for nothing. Why wouldn't they want to capture that revenue back and maybe gain some elsewhere too?

[SSharon]

How can anyone think Apple will take over search if it won't let users search for porn? Google might become less relevant, but Apple isn't going to be the king of search any time soon.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

How can anyone think Apple will take over search if it won't let users search for porn? Google might become less relevant, but Apple isn't going to be the king of search any time soon.

It's gay days now at Apple with Cook in charge. I don't think you'll see them be so strict about it.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

How can anyone think Apple will take over search if it won't let users search for porn? Google might become less relevant, but Apple isn't going to be the king of search any time soon.

They don't need to take all of it, but they'll want the bits they can make most money out of. Plus as mentioned, Apple's ties to Disney are not so strong now and you can bet Disney was the driver behind the no porn rule for Apple.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

How can anyone think Apple will take over search if it won't let users search for porn? Google might become less relevant, but Apple isn't going to be the king of search any time soon.

I can read between the lines. Trusty old "Goo" becoming a dedicated p* browser is a possibility...

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

They don't need to take all of it, but they'll want the bits they can make most money out of. Plus as mentioned, Apple's ties to Disney are not so strong now and you can bet Disney was the driver behind the no porn rule for Apple.

I always thought it was something to do with Jobs and never blamed Disney. So sure, Apple will take some chunk away from Google, but I don't see myself switching 100% to Apple in the near future. As it is I'm dreading iOS 6 without Google Maps. If Google ends up making standalone apps for the services Apple is getting into that will be a real test.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

I always thought it was something to do with Jobs and never blamed Disney. So sure, Apple will take some chunk away from Google, but I don't see myself switching 100% to Apple in the near future. As it is I'm dreading iOS 6 without Google Maps. If Google ends up making standalone apps for the services Apple is getting into that will be a real test.

Its just my opinion. The media has always blamed jobs but he never struck me as a prude. Thats usually the realm of the Christian right wing and he certainly wasn't that. It always seemed obvious to me that as biggest shareholder in Disney it would look bad if he was peddling porn. I never heard him speak about it either way. Anyone really fussed about it as the media claimed would have mentioned it somewhere.

I trust that Apple wouldn't replace Google maps with something that was worse. Maybe less complete and they'll let you opt back to Google for now but even with standalone apps, the navigation and Siri are not going to talk to the Google app so it might not be 100%, but they'll get something from you and away from Google and thats the point.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I trust that Apple wouldn't replace Google maps with something that was worse. Maybe less complete and they'll let you opt back to Google for now but even with standalone apps, the navigation and Siri are not going to talk to the Google app so it might not be 100%, but they'll get something from you and away from Google and thats the point.

As a consumer, I don't care (and most probably won't even know) that I've been shifted from Google to Apple. But, some of us WILL miss things like Street View, building foot prints and transit routes.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I trust that Apple wouldn't replace Google maps with something that was worse. Maybe less complete and they'll let you opt back to Google for now...

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

But, some of us WILL miss things like Street View, building foot prints and transit routes.

Some gimmicky 3D flyover is not a substitution for street view. Turn-by-turn directions have been around on other platforms for so long (and through 3rd party apps on iOS) that promoting it as a feature is embarrassing at this point. Not having walking directions and public transportation directions makes the new Maps app worse. From some of the screenshots I've seen it doesn't even look like one way streets are properly labeled. I'm sure some of this will be fixed by the time iOS 6 goes live, but for 6-12 months I expect to call the new app worse than the old one. And I almost forgot to mention that not all of the features will be on older models such as the iPhone 4.

[besson3c]

I also hope that iOS 6 Maps allows you to reroute the suggested route yourself.

Wasn't iOS 5 Maps not Google based though?

[Spheric Harlot]

No, it was/is Google-based.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

As a consumer, I don't care (and most probably won't even know) that I've been shifted from Google to Apple. But, some of us WILL miss things like Street View, building foot prints and transit routes.

Let me set the record straight.

There is going to be transit routes in Apple Maps. The icon is there now.
There is going to be traffic visuals. The icon is there now where the data will be crowdsourced.
3D view is cool.
Zooming out zoom you to outerspace and you can spin the globe.
It's fast and fluid, and looks better.

I will miss Street View, you're right about that.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Let me set the record straight.

There is going to be transit routes in Apple Maps. The icon is there now.
There is going to be traffic visuals. The icon is there now where the data will be crowdsourced.
3D view is cool.
Zooming out zoom you to outerspace and you can spin the globe.
It's fast and fluid, and looks better.

I will miss Street View, you're right about that.

That's good news about mass transit, but I'm still hoping Google releases its own Maps app to compete with Apple's. I'm always exciting about new Apple apps, and this is probably the first time that I am nervous about upgrading for fear of lost functionality.

[TETENAL]

Apples Maps will not have public transportation routes, but it will suggest relevant apps from the App Store.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Apples Maps will not have public transportation routes, but it will suggest relevant apps from the App Store.

Forestall: Instead of trying to build those ourselves, we are going to integrate and feature and promote your apps for transit right within the Maps app in iOS 6.

In other words, it's there. Who cares who the third party that's providing the data is.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Forestall: Instead of trying to build those ourselves, we are going to integrate and feature and promote your apps for transit right within the Maps app in iOS 6.

This sounds like the explicit acknowledgement that transit directions will be HANDED OFF to developers, who can tie into the maps API and register their apps with the Maps.app.

Users will press "transit" directions, and be passed on to the available app.

At least, I *hope* that's what that means (seems clear to me, though), because I'd much rather my local mass transit app tie into Maps, than Apple try to replicate the local services everywhere. Every such general app I've tried has sucked or was inaccurate.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Forestall: Instead of trying to build those ourselves, we are going to integrate and feature and promote your apps for transit right within the Maps app in iOS 6.

In other words, it's there. Who cares who the third party that's providing the data is.

Sounds like, from within the iOS Maps app, they'll be handing transit directions off to third party apps.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Sounds like, from within the iOS Maps app, they'll be handing transit directions off to third party apps.

This is the interpretation as I understand it as well. Doesn't sound like an elegant solution at all. How many people complained about Google's version that someone thought this was necessary?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

This is the interpretation as I understand it as well. Doesn't sound like an elegant solution at all. How many people complained about Google's version that someone thought this was necessary?

I think there are several countries where it didn't work very well at all, if at all. This might actually be better.

[TETENAL]

Instagram

[Spheric Harlot]

A-ha!

[dikaio]

How Apple not profit from search.