[Chilla Frilla]

Hey guys, im thinking about getting a new Apple Macbook (im currently a PC user ><) for my next school year and I have a couple of questions. Here they are:

1. White or Black? There both really attractive

2. My school runs on strictly XP/Vista, is there a way I can switch between the mac os and xp/vista without any hassle? Do I need to download any programs? How does it work?

3. For new OS's like Leopard and future installments, do I need to buy or download anything extra to get it? Or is it just like a normal system update that you receive?

4. Lets just say in 2 years new OS comes out and I still have my 2 year old laptop, will I still be able to download it and will it be capable of running it (not like vista -_- )?

5. Does iGarageBand come with the MacBook or do I need to buy it?

6. I create a ton of videos, is there any advanced video editing programs that come with the MacBook that are far more advanced than Windows Movie Maker?

Thanks!

[uicandrew]

1. do a search of this forum and you'll find tons of threads and polls and opinions
2. a lot of things are interchangeable. the best thing about the mac is that everything you print can be turned into a pdf, which is universal. the most important stuff are pdf, microsoft office files.
3. Leopard is going to cost roughly $70 for students. MUCH more palatable than Vista upgrades
4. Mac OS has a history of having great backwards compatibility. Tiger currently runs on laptops made in 2002 and earlier.
5. yes. it is free with iLife which is included with all new macs.
6. iMovie is supposed to be MUCH more advanced than windows movie maker. again, it is FREE with iLife and authoring dvds is a cinch with iDVD

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Chilla Frilla 

1. White or Black? There both really attractive

2. My school runs on strictly XP/Vista, is there a way I can switch between the mac os and xp/vista without any hassle? Do I need to download any programs? How does it work?

3. For new OS's like Leopard and future installments, do I need to buy or download anything extra to get it? Or is it just like a normal system update that you receive?

4. Lets just say in 2 years new OS comes out and I still have my 2 year old laptop, will I still be able to download it and will it be capable of running it (not like vista -_- )?

5. Does iGarageBand come with the MacBook or do I need to buy it?

6. I create a ton of videos, is there any advanced video editing programs that come with the MacBook that are far more advanced than Windows Movie Maker?

1. White; a black paint job isn't worth $120.

2. Depending on what you need to do in XP/Vista, there are two options: Parallels/VMware and BootCamp (bare metal); both require a Windows license (which will probably be about $5 through your school). Parallels or VMware lets you run Windows inside OSX, and is suitable if you need to run low-performance Windows apps. BootCamp (really just running Windows on bare metal) requires you to reboot to get Windows, but is just like running Windows on any other PC (in terms of performance, security, etc).

3. You'll need to pay Apple about $70 for it, and you'll receive the retail box; not quite the Windows education price (usually $free-25), but a nice discount from the $130 retail.

4. You won't be able to download the new OS (see 3), but yes, the new OS should run fine on 2 year old hardware (just like Vista runs fine on the MacBook's 2 year old video card). One issue with running the latest OSX on older hardware is that some of the eyecandy can't be disabled (without a bit of hacking), so they become less "snappy" with future releases.

5. Yes, the iLife suite (including Garageband) is free with every new Mac.

6. No, not included (iMovie is pretty much the same as WMM in terms of features), but the next step up would be Final Cut Express at $149 with education discount.

[imitchellg5]

Yes, you'd probably want Final Cut Express HD for more advanced editing. iMovie HD is more advanced than Windows Movie Maker, but it still lacks some features that most people would like to have to make a semi-professional looking movie.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mduell 

1. White; a black paint job isn't worth $120.

It's a different plastic, not a paint job, which is very pleasant to the touch and doesn't scratch *nearly* as easily, though smudges and fingerprints show up easily.

If you're going to be handling this book by its shell 10-30 times a day for three years, ten cents a day might be worth the luxury. It certainly is for me.

In the end, it comes down to a matter of taste. Go to a store and handle them both for a bit.

The hard drive size difference should not be the criterion, since it's very very simple to replace the hard drive on the MacBook with a bigger one.

Originally Posted by mduell 

4. You won't be able to download the new OS (see 3), but yes, the new OS should run fine on 2 year old hardware (just like Vista runs fine on the MacBook's 2 year old video card). One issue with running the latest OSX on older hardware is that some of the eyecandy can't be disabled (without a bit of hacking), so they become less "snappy" with future releases.

Actually, that is quite incorrect.

Apple is pretty unique in being the only company where EVERY major release of their operating system has run *noticeably* "snappier" on existing hardware.

My January 2000 iMac G3 runs the latest version of OS X just fine, and the difference between 10.3 and 10.4 was quite remarkable. MUCH "snappier" and smoother.

If the graphics card is too small/slow to handle some newly-introduced effect or gimmick, then that generally simply doesn't show up on that machine (as with the Dashboard "ripple" effect on older Macs). It doesn't slow down your machine at all.

Also, 10.5 Leopard will be the first major update to OS X since Apple switched to Intel, so it is very likely that major code optimization for the new architecture will bring hefty speed increases to the MacBooks.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

One issue with running the latest OSX on older hardware is that some of the eyecandy can't be disabled (without a bit of hacking), so they become less "snappy" with future releases.

Umm, no.

What usually happens is that new 'eye candy' is not available on some older hardware if your GPU for example doesn't support a certain spec (for example the Dashboard ripple).

But actually every previous version of OS X has had the reputation of running faster on old hardware than its predecessor. The most notable was probably 10.2->10.3 which offered a considerable (and noticeable!) performance increase on older Macs.

[Oops, looks like analogika beat me to it]

[Chilla Frilla]

So basically Analogika your saying that even though the black is more expensive its worth it because its more durable? Im going to an apple store today to check em out

[Simon]

It's up to you to decide if it's worth it, but analogika is certainly right in pointing out that it's not just a 'paint job'. The case material is in fact different. Personally, I think the black ones feel (and look) much better.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

iMovie HD is more advanced than Windows Movie Maker, but it still lacks some features that most people would like to have to make a semi-professional looking movie.

I've used both and I really don't see the differences. Are you comparing the current versions ('06 and 6.0), or an earlier version (like '04 vs 2.1)? Although even 2.0 supported some things '06 doesn't, like programming custom effects and transitions with XML.

Originally Posted by analogika 

It's a different plastic, not a paint job, which is very pleasant to the touch and doesn't scratch *nearly* as easily, though smudges and fingerprints show up easily.

BlackBook owners say otherwise, including our very own Eug.

Originally Posted by analogika 

Actually, that is quite incorrect.

Apple is pretty unique in being the only company where EVERY major release of their operating system has run *noticeably* "snappier" on existing hardware.

My January 2000 iMac G3 runs the latest version of OS X just fine, and the difference between 10.3 and 10.4 was quite remarkable. MUCH "snappier" and smoother.

If the graphics card is too small/slow to handle some newly-introduced effect or gimmick, then that generally simply doesn't show up on that machine (as with the Dashboard "ripple" effect on older Macs). It doesn't slow down your machine at all.

Originally Posted by Simon 

Umm, no.

What usually happens is that new 'eye candy' is not available on some older hardware if your GPU for example doesn't support a certain spec (for example the Dashboard ripple).

But actually every previous version of OS X has had the reputation of running faster on old hardware than its predecessor. The most notable was probably 10.2->10.3 which offered a considerable (and noticeable!) performance increase on older Macs.

[Oops, looks like analogika beat me to it]

I've heard all of this 'enthusiasm' (what a great euphemism) before, but when I sat down to actually use a 1Ghz 17" PB and 1.33 12" PB running 10.4 I was really surprised. Everything in the UI lagged (including moving finder windows... wtf?), Dashboard was a dog, and it was like being at the beach with balls. The 17" owner went back to 10.2.8 and the 12" owner went back to 10.3.9 after about two weeks. Leopard should run OK on the current MacBook, but I wouldn't look forward to anything after that.

[im_noahselby]

Go with the black model if you have the money. The white model looks disgusting when it is dirty.

[peeb]

Originally Posted by im_noahselby 

The white model looks disgusting when it is dirty.

Yes. The black one is just as disgusting when dirty, but, from a distance, people might not realize.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mduell 

BlackBook owners say otherwise, including our very own Eug.

*sigh*

Read that thread. The two issues of "flaking" (the first and third link) were at the very beginning of production, in spring 2006. They are probably cases where too much separation agent was applied to the mold, and it remained on the plastic. It is NOT PAINT. I have heard of exactly three instances of that happening, all of them in the May-June 2006 timeframe. I have seen dozens and dozens of these machines, and indeed attempted to scratch both our numerous demo units and my own machine, and the plastic is NOT PAINTED.

The plastic is entirely black, through and through.

In fact, my own Blackbook just got a couple of fairly deep scars a few days ago when it fell off the desk (nothing tragic, fortunately), and you can only see them from up close.

That second link, btw, the one with the white spots, is a sham. I have no idea what he's done, but if it were flaking paint and a white substance underneath, I somehow doubt the white substance would collect in the crevice between the bottom case and the battery. That is a substance external to the MacBook.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Chilla Frilla 

So basically Analogika your saying that even though the black is more expensive its worth it because its more durable? Im going to an apple store today to check em out

It actually appears to be, although my main justification is actually the way it *feels*.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Yes. The black one is just as disgusting when dirty, but, from a distance, people might not realize.

Nah, it just smudges slightly.

Not an issue.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I've heard all of this 'enthusiasm' (what a great euphemism) before, but when I sat down to actually use a 1Ghz 17" PB and 1.33 12" PB running 10.4 I was really surprised. Everything in the UI lagged (including moving finder windows... wtf?), Dashboard was a dog, and it was like being at the beach with balls. The 17" owner went back to 10.2.8 and the 12" owner went back to 10.3.9 after about two weeks. Leopard should run OK on the current MacBook, but I wouldn't look forward to anything after that.

On the G3, the difference was VERY noticeable. I have heard reports that it wasn't as big on the G4. Dashboard, in particular, always seemed fairly slow to load on my Powerbook G4, but I hardly used it, anyway.

I NEVER had ANY issues with UI lag, including moving windows around. I sincerely suspect those people you speak of were running Tiger with far too little RAM for what they were doing, and the "lag" was in fact caused by memory paging out and delaying window activation.

THAT I do see, and always have, when I have a lot of stuff open and switch between applications. Like, duh.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by analogika 

It actually appears to be, although my main justification is actually the way it *feels*.

I think this is an important point. It's not just about looks. The black MB actually feels different (and IMHO better). I own both a white and a black MB and can confirm that you feel the difference immediately. It's difficult to describe, but the black feels more like leather while the white feels more like acrylic glass. I can close my eyes and just by feeling the case tell which one is black and which is white. They feel very different. Anybody telling you otherwise has never touched both.

[Sub]

Like analogika, I think the black is much better than the white, it's an opinion. The only way to tell if it's worth it for you is to go to the apple store and see for yourself. The black doesn't scratch nearley as easily, and I think it makes the Macbook look much less clumsey and more elegant. My sister has the white one and I just picked up the black one, and it may feel better, but it also hides the sleep light when it's in daylight, as well as the IR receiver, which show up on the white macbook. Since the white one scratches so easily, my sister got the plastic case, I can't stand that thing, it makes the thing look ugly, and doesn't fit right, and just flat outadds what feels like an inch to the thickness of it. I'd listen to simon, too it looks like that guy has had a lasting experience with every popluar mac ever made.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I NEVER had ANY issues with UI lag, including moving windows around. I sincerely suspect those people you speak of were running Tiger with far too little RAM for what they were doing, and the "lag" was in fact caused by memory paging out and delaying window activation.

It went away when they went back to their previous OS, with the same application usage profile. Tiger was just less snappy on older hardware than Jaguar/Panther.

Originally Posted by Simon 

It's difficult to describe, but the black feels more like leather while the white feels more like acrylic glass.

'Matte' vs 'glossy'?

[peeb]

"It went away when they went back to their previous OS, with the same application usage profile. Tiger was just less snappy on older hardware than Jaguar/Panther."
It's quite possible that was a ram issue - Tiger needs more RAM to be happy, with it, it is generally at least as fast, if not faster.

[im_noahselby]

Originally Posted by peeb 

Yes. The black one is just as disgusting when dirty, but, from a distance, people might not realize.

Up close, yes, both models will show finger prints and smudges, however, my point was that the white model will actually change it's colour near the palm rests, which is VERY noticable and very unattractive. The black model doesn't show so bad when it is really dirty, as it doesn't change it's colour.

I personally think both models look fantastic when they are new. In time, however, the black model will show next to no noticable colour discolouration. Which is a large part of the reason it gets my recommendation.