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Fourth Horseman · Dec 12, 2006, 01:55 AM

Tonight I dropped a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo T7200 processor into my Mac Mini (previously 1.5 GHz Core Solo). The upgrade was rather tricky, as I've never had a Mini apart before. Working in these small computers is entirely different from a normal sized desktop machine.

After much careful disassembly/reassembly the machine booted right up. My only concern is processor temperature. Under light load (web browsing, etc.) the CPU runs from 55C to 60C. No worries there, but once I get BOINC fired up that temp shoots up to 90C! The specs say the CPU is safe up to 100C and will go into thermal protection at 125C, so perhaps I have nothing to worry about, but 90C seems a bit high to me. I used a very thin layer of Artic Silver as I do with all my CPUs and everything seemed ok.

Do you guys think I have anything to fear from 90C operating temperatures?

Scotttheking · Dec 12, 2006, 02:09 AM

That is disturbingly hot.

--Scott

Fourth Horseman · Dec 12, 2006, 02:27 AM

Yeah, it's got me a little spooked. I think I might pull the machine apart and make sure the heatsink didn't pop one of it's anchors loose while I was reassembling everything. That's the only thing I can think of that would be leading to these kinds of temperatures.

SciFrog · 06:40 PM

My two iBooks (one C2D, the other CD) can reach 86-88 when not on a flat surface. On a desk, they will settle down to 78-80...

Fourth Horseman · Dec 12, 2006, 10:22 AM

That seems much more reasonable. I'm guessing my heat sink got messed up when I was trying to reassemble the machine. I'll open it up tonight and check. Thanks for the feedback on the temps.

zombie67 · Dec 12, 2006, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

That is disturbingly hot.

--Scott

Not really. More Core Duo (2.16) in my 17" MBP hovers around 88-89 C. Completely stock.

Fourth Horseman · Dec 12, 2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by zombie67

Not really. More Core Duo (2.16) in my 17" MBP hovers around 88-89 C. Completely stock.

Interesting. Perhaps I have nothing to worry about then. I'm still going to check my heat sink, but it sounds like maybe these Core Duo and Core2 Duo chips just run hot. Thanks for the info on your CPU's temps.

beadman · Dec 12, 2006, 04:21 PM

My MBP 2.16 runs SETI 24/7 - Processor 1 is normally at 89-90C with processor 2 at 85-86C. I keep the laptop on my wooden desk at work, but have it elevated on a couple of flat sticks to let the air circulate beneath it a bit. Fans operate quietly (not full speed).

beadman

Fourth Horseman · 11:51 PM

Thanks guys, you've eased my fears. I'll power my little Mac Mini back up without fears of China syndrome.

EDIT: I pulled my Mac Mini apart again and my heat sink was in place as it should be. So it looks like the Core2 Duo just runs warm. I put it all back together and have it cranking away on S@H and R@H now. I'll let you guys know if it starts showing any signs of problems due to the heat.

In the mean time, this is a happy sight.

Tomchu · Dec 13, 2006, 12:38 AM

You do have to clean both the processor and heatsink with rubbing alcohol to remove *any* old thermal interface material, and then you have to apply fresh stuff.

amru · Dec 13, 2006, 02:34 AM

its just a plug and play type of mod? meaning just take the old one out and drop the new one in? and nothing else

Scotttheking · Dec 13, 2006, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by amru

its just a plug and play type of mod? meaning just take the old one out and drop the new one in? and nothing else

Yes.

Tomchu · Dec 13, 2006, 03:41 AM

Along with proper cleaning of the thermal surfaces and application of new thermal interface material ...

A quick drop-in job is what gets you temperatures of 90C. :-)

Scotttheking · Dec 13, 2006, 03:48 AM

Intel's site says thermal spec is 100C, which is very scary to me. But, ok...

zombie67 · Dec 13, 2006, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

Intel's site says thermal spec is 100C, which is very scary to me. But, ok...

We've been though this. 100c is okay. Run BOINC, and let credits do the talking. If you had a faulty HS connection, then it would have burned up within minutes.

Fourth Horseman · Dec 13, 2006, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Along with proper cleaning of the thermal surfaces and application of new thermal interface material ...

A quick drop-in job is what gets you temperatures of 90C. :-)

Yup, that's been done. It was completely cleaned and a new thin application of Arctic Silver was used. As Zombie says, it appears to be just the way these Core processors run.

Tomchu · Dec 13, 2006, 04:19 PM

Strange. I deal with Core 2 Duos at work and none of them ever run that hot -- then again it's with the stock Intel heatsinks, which are more powerful cooling devices than the quiet, miniature system that the Mini has.

Fourth Horseman · Dec 14, 2006, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Strange. I deal with Core 2 Duos at work and none of them ever run that hot -- then again it's with the stock Intel heatsinks, which are more powerful cooling devices than the quiet, miniature system that the Mini has.

I definitely think that's a factor. It would explain why people with notebook systems are seeing similar temps. I think the Mini's heatsink and fan just aren't up to the task of a CPU pushed to full throttle like this. I could always mount the whole thing in a bigger PC case with a better heat sink and multiple fans, but I'd really hate to give up the small, stylish enclosure. Still, the temperature is steady at 89C - 90C and I've not seen any instability or odd behavior so far. It seems stable at these temperatures.

SciFrog · Dec 14, 2006, 12:47 AM

Using Core Duo Temp program, it looks like my 2Ghz Core Duo tops at 1.83Ghz and 76c running Folding. Any suggestions?

beadman · Dec 14, 2006, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by SciFrog

Using Core Duo Temp program, it looks like my 2Ghz Core Duo tops at 1.83Ghz and 76c running Folding. Any suggestions?

Go into your Systems Preferences/Energy Saver and set the performance to Highest Performance - I believe the default is either Normal or Better Energy Savings. I have my MBP set to Custom, with Computer to Sleep: Never, and Display to Sleep: 3 minutes, and Put Hard Disk to Sleep When Possible (I also have my BOINC prefs set to write to disk at most every 900 seconds). No guarantees, but my RAC went up when I did this on the MBP.

beadman

beadman · Dec 14, 2006, 10:20 AM

Speaking of performance...anyone know the terminal commands for checking on the current processor speed?

beadman

SciFrog · Dec 14, 2006, 12:42 PM

I have the same settings already, so the problem is somewhere lese. Thanks for the suggestion.

DrBoar · Dec 15, 2006, 07:43 AM

My dual core mini run at 80C for the CPUs and 49C for the HD (F@H 24/7). To improve the cooling I put on higher rubber feet (self adhesive). The bottom of the case gets really warm with the very low rubber thingeys that Apple supply the mini with.

With that folding speed of yours I soon have you breathing down my neck. I better find some more computers that I can get to work for me

Fourth Horseman · Dec 15, 2006, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by DrBoar

My dual core mini run at 80C for the CPUs and 49C for the HD (F@H 24/7). To improve the cooling I put on higher rubber feet (self adhesive). The bottom of the case gets really warm with the very low rubber thingeys that Apple supply the mini with.

That's a great idea! I did the same thing to some other Apple gear I have, such as my Airport (first gen) and my 23" HD Cinema's Display's external DVI adapter, both of which got pretty warm before I added the feet.

I'll do the same thing for my Mini. Great idea, thanks!

Fourth Horseman · Dec 23, 2006, 05:52 PM

Just wanted to follow up on my Core 2 Duo Mac Mini. I took DrBoar's advice and stuck four little rubber feet on the bottom of the case to raise it up for better air flow. This helped and the computer now averages 86 deg C while running BOINC 24/7. The system is now well over 1000 RAC and still climbing.

zombie67 · Dec 23, 2006, 07:59 PM

Sweet. My T7600 (2.33 Core 2 Duo) iMac just hit 2174 RAC, and hoping to break 2200 over the break.

My T2600 (2.16 Core Duo) MBP maxed out at 1168 RAC. I am curious to see how that compares to your T7200 (2.0 Core 2 Duo). I want to see how much better similar chips perform CD vs. C2D. Make sure to use alexkan's app., specifically for the C2D.

Fourth Horseman · Dec 23, 2006, 08:29 PM

Yup, I've got his optimized code loaded and will report back when the system's RAC peaks.

beadman · Dec 24, 2006, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by zombie67

Sweet. My T7600 (2.33 Core 2 Duo) iMac just hit 2174 RAC, and hoping to break 2200 over the break.

My T2600 (2.16 Core Duo) MBP maxed out at 1168 RAC. I am curious to see how that compares to your T7200 (2.0 Core 2 Duo). I want to see how much better similar chips perform CD vs. C2D. Make sure to use alexkan's app., specifically for the C2D.

I don't know what my processor is (Txxxx), but it's a MBP 2.16 Core Duo and hit a peak a couple of days ago of 1401 on SETI. Probably would go higher, but I keep taking it home from work on weekends, so there's a couple of hours or so downtime every Friday and Monday. Also travel a fair amount for work, so plane trips are always shut-down-time for it.

Top producer on an MBP that I've seen is Riley, with the newest MBP2,2 and a RAC of 1562. Fastest "original" MBP1,1 is Tomohisa Miya and his current RAC is 1405.

How can I find out what Txxxx processor I have?

beadman

zombie67 · Dec 24, 2006, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by beadman

I don't know what my processor is (Txxxx), but it's a MBP 2.16 Core Duo and hit a peak a couple of days ago of 1401 on SETI. Probably would go higher, but I keep taking it home from work on weekends, so there's a couple of hours or so downtime every Friday and Monday. Also travel a fair amount for work, so plane trips are always shut-down-time for it.

Top producer on an MBP that I've seen is Riley, with the newest MBP2,2 and a RAC of 1562. Fastest "original" MBP1,1 is Tomohisa Miya and his current RAC is 1405.

How can I find out what Txxxx processor I have?

beadman

You have the same as I do in my MPB, T2600. You can look them up here:

http://www.intel.com/products/proces...mber/index.htm

I can see that I will have to run SETI exclusively on my MBP again. My best of 1168 is too low. I did take it down occasionally for travel to/from the office. And I may have been getting a lot of the noisy WUs at the time. New target of 1405!

beadman · Dec 24, 2006, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by zombie67

You have the same as I do in my MPB, T2600. You can look them up here:
...

Thanks for the info!

beadman

pra9ab0y · Jan 11, 2007, 10:59 AM

hav u reaplyed the thermal greece?

Fourth Horseman · Jan 11, 2007, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by ashleyman

hav u reaplyed the thermal greece?

Yes, I cleaned the heat sink and re-applied thermal grease (Artic Silver). The computer still runs warm, but it's purring away at between 85 - 87 deg C. Adding the exta little feet to the bottom of the case helped more than anything. So far the system has been completely stable.

bearcatrp · Jan 21, 2007, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Fourth Horseman

Yes, I cleaned the heat sink and re-applied thermal grease (Artic Silver). The computer still runs warm, but it's purring away at between 85 - 87 deg C. Adding the exta little feet to the bottom of the case helped more than anything. So far the system has been completely stable.

How much did the 2 ghz processor cost you? Is the bus speed the same on a core solo vs a core duo system? As cheap as the core solo systems are, might be a cheap solution for crunching.

Do you have stats from before the switch and after? Curious of the increase in crunching. I am trying to decide on multiple minis or a refurb mac pro. After reading your success story on the upgrade, multiple minis might be the cheaper solution.
Randy

Fourth Horseman · Jan 23, 2007, 12:52 AM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

How much did the 2 ghz processor cost you? Is the bus speed the same on a core solo vs a core duo system? As cheap as the core solo systems are, might be a cheap solution for crunching.

Do you have stats from before the switch and after? Curious of the increase in crunching. I am trying to decide on multiple minis or a refurb mac pro. After reading your success story on the upgrade, multiple minis might be the cheaper solution.
Randy

I got the 2 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU at newegg.com for $295.49. I did not shop around though, so I'm sure it could be found for less elsewhere. The bus speed remains the same. This setup cost me about $900 for the refurb Mac Mini, 1 GB of RAM and the Core2 CPU. Is it more cost effective than other options? Probably not, but it was fun and makes a nice compact little cruncher for me. I like it.

Unfortunately, I did not get numbers on its performance before the CPU swap (I typically forget to dyno my cars before adding power-adders too), but currently it is turning in 1800 RAC and climbing. My smallest computer is completely crushing my other systems in RAC.

bearcatrp · Jan 28, 2007, 12:59 PM

I looked over the specs of the system and saw the bus is the same. I just bought a refurb 1.66 and might look at one larger than 2 ghz if I can find a larger heat sink for it. With the 4 mb cache on the 2 ghz, i can see a pretty big jump of crunch time. How's yours doing so far? Any issues yet?
Randy

Fourth Horseman · Jan 29, 2007, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

I looked over the specs of the system and saw the bus is the same. I just bought a refurb 1.66 and might look at one larger than 2 ghz if I can find a larger heat sink for it. With the 4 mb cache on the 2 ghz, i can see a pretty big jump of crunch time. How's yours doing so far? Any issues yet?
Randy

So far no issues at all. It's running well and holding at about 1800 RAC. I do wonder about the longevity of the built-in cooling fan, though. It's at full output 24/7. We shall see, but so far no problems to report.

SLiMeX · Jan 29, 2007, 03:06 PM

I find this entire thread rather interesting. (Not sarcasm.)

bearcatrp · Feb 4, 2007, 03:40 PM

I just received my mini and upgraded the ram. I noticed the airflow comes out the back only. Might put some slits on the side ( in a downward angle ) to let it blown out the heat better when I upgrade mine later. Might cool it down more.
Randy

Fourth Horseman · Feb 4, 2007, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

I just received my mini and upgraded the ram. I noticed the airflow comes out the back only. Might put some slits on the side ( in a downward angle ) to let it blown out the heat better when I upgrade mine later. Might cool it down more.
Randy

I'd be interested to see pics of that when you get it done. Also, please report back on temps you're seeing with BOINC running after you get your CPU upgrade.

zombie67 · Feb 4, 2007, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

I just received my mini and upgraded the ram. I noticed the airflow comes out the back only. Might put some slits on the side ( in a downward angle ) to let it blown out the heat better when I upgrade mine later. Might cool it down more.
Randy

I would recommend not doing that. When it comes to really tight boxes like that (and laptops), the engineers spend countless hours maximizing the cooling. The path of the airflow is analyzed down to the gnats ass to get the air to all the right spots. Baffles and components are used to make sure the cool air follows the right path. Allowing air to leave in a different direction would likely do more harm than good.

houstonmacbro · Feb 4, 2007, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Fourth Horseman

Tonight I dropped a 2 GHz Core 2 Duo T7200 processor into my Mac Mini (previously 1.5 GHz Core Solo). The upgrade was rather tricky, as I've never had a Mini apart before. Working in these small computers is entirely different from a normal sized desktop machine.

After much careful disassembly/reassembly the machine booted right up. My only concern is processor temperature. Under light load (web browsing, etc.) the CPU runs from 55C to 60C. No worries there, but once I get BOINC fired up that temp shoots up to 90C! The specs say the CPU is safe up to 100C and will go into thermal protection at 125C, so perhaps I have nothing to worry about, but 90C seems a bit high to me. I used a very thin layer of Artic Silver as I do with all my CPUs and everything seemed ok.

Do you guys think I have anything to fear from 90C operating temperatures?

What is BOINC?

zombie67 · Feb 4, 2007, 09:24 PM

As long as it's stable, I wouldn't worry about the temp.

MaxPower · Feb 4, 2007, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by houstonmacbro

What is BOINC?

Berkeley Open Infrastructure for Network Computing, an open-source software for volunteer computing and desktop grid computing.

bearcatrp · Feb 6, 2007, 08:47 PM

Hey fourth horseman, you didn't happen to see what your page ins/outs were before you swap, did you? Reason I am asking is my 1.66 duo core are both pretty high. I have 1 gb ram and have 400 megs free running boinc so I don't think I need more ram but not sure. Thinking the increase in L2 cache of the core 2 duo handles this better. My iMac 24 inch has 2 gb ram but the page ins are high but the outs are 0. The mini is high on both sides.
Randy

Fourth Horseman · Feb 6, 2007, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

Hey fourth horseman, you didn't happen to see what your page ins/outs were before you swap, did you? Reason I am asking is my 1.66 duo core are both pretty high. I have 1 gb ram and have 400 megs free running boinc so I don't think I need more ram but not sure. Thinking the increase in L2 cache of the core 2 duo handles this better. My iMac 24 inch has 2 gb ram but the page ins are high but the outs are 0. The mini is high on both sides.
Randy

Sorry, no I did not. I only had the Mini for a day or two before my new processor and RAM showed up, so I didn't really have time to get to know it with its 1.5 GHz Core Solo CPU.

bearcatrp · Feb 6, 2007, 11:46 PM

Could you tell me what your page ins/outs are while running boink with your current setup?
tnks
Randy

Fourth Horseman · Feb 7, 2007, 12:51 AM

Sure thing. Here are my Mac Mini's memory statistics as of 21:46 MST Tuesday:

Wired: 174.13 MB
Active: 555.10 MB
Inactive 280.21 MB
Used: 1,012.50 MB
Free: 12.31 MB
VM size: 8.43 GB
Page ins/outs: 30302 / 10361

This is with 1 GB of physical memory.

new2me · Feb 7, 2007, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Fourth Horseman

I got the 2 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU at newegg.com for $295.49.

Can you please post a link to the page on NewEgg? (For those of us thinking about this upgrade...)

zombie67 · Feb 7, 2007, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by new2me

Can you please post a link to the page on NewEgg? (For those of us thinking about this upgrade...)

Just search on "merom". You will see all 5 speeds available on Newegg.

Gee4orce · Feb 9, 2007, 01:31 PM

Also check Froogle.google.com - I got a 2.16 Core 2 for my mini back in November, and Froogle found a supplier who was (I presume mistakenly) selling the part for £150 less than they should have been. A couple of days after I bought it, the price jumped up.