[Simon]

So basically, the consensus is, 8x is just hype? It's more like 5x ?

[vinster]

Originally Posted by Simon

So basically, the consensus is, 8x is just hype? It's more like 5x ?

Yep, up to 8x*

*but BTW you'll never achieve that.

I think the Question now is, where's the bottle neck?

[Eug Wanker]

Anyways, my iMac G5 has the Pioneer DVR-K04, and it too burns around a little bit faster than 4X speeds overall for a complete disc, with a full burn over 13 minutes. Really, the pseudo-8X is par for the course for various laptop burner manufacturers. Don't blame Apple.

BTW, I just ordered a bunch of Taiyo Yuden... 4X, just because it's about half the price of the 8X stuff, and it's not as it's gonna make a huge time difference (I hope) on these drives.

Here are the benchmarks for the Pioneer DVR-K04:

8X: 13.6 minutes
4X: 16.1 minutes

So it's about a 15-20% time difference between 4X and 8X, which is significant, but it's certainly not anywhere near the 100% speed difference with the Pioneer either. ie. If someone is getting 8X burns under 13 minutes with their PowerBook's Panasonic drive, then it's actually doing better than average (if it truly is a full 4.36 GB disc) compared to the competition.

[spiff72]

I just wish that the drive wasn't so picky about which media you use. I bought verbatim 16X and it burns at 2X.

[mserv2001]

I used Fuji 8x inkjet printable DVD-R discs in my PowerBook 15" 1.67GHz running OS 10.3.9 Matshita UJ-835E drive using the Finder and burning a Disc Image in Disk Utility. Both methods only allowed burning at 2x speed tops. Not at the 8x that the disc is suppose to be rated at. When I played the dvd in my dvd player, it dropped audio and video throughout the whole disc.
When I used the regular Memorex 4x DVD-R, it did burn at its top rated 4x speed and played back flawlessly.
I then exchanged the Fuji discs for the Memorex 8x DVD+R inkjet printable discs and tested the disc like I did with the previous discs. In the Finder, it burned to the proper 8x speed. In Disk Utility, burning a disc image also burned at 8x in 14 minutes. To me this means that the SuperDrive doesn't burn constantly at 8x speed from start to finish. I could tell by the sound of the spinning disc during the burn.
So far, Memorex blank dvds seem to work the best right now. I think it depends on the flavor of Memorex dvds that are used since other PowerBook users are having problems with Memorex.

[Eug Wanker]

Memorex DVDs are too inconsistent for my tastes.

The best results I have had are with Apple media. They Just Work. However they are expensive.

I have been testing Taiyo Yuden 4X media of late. Strangely enough, they burn at 8X with my Pioneer drive in my iMac, and play back flawlessly on other machines. I will reserve judgement on them until I test more of the discs though, and I'll stick to 4X, since that's what they're rated for. However, given that the ones I've tried so far worked fine at 8X, I suspect they'll do just nicely at 4X.

I would have bought Taiyo Yuden 8X media since they're still cheaper than Apple 8X, but unfortunately they're twice the price of the 4X media, and with this Pioneer laptop drive the time difference is only 15-20%. I can live with that, considering the much lower cost of the 4X media.

[mserv2001]

I purchased a 5-pk of memorex 8x dvd-rs today and tested them. Again, my powerbook superdrive was able to burn at 8x speed. I think there are 2 factors here; 1. blank media that varys in quality. 2. Individual finicky SuperDrives. It seems that my SuperDrive prefers Memorex media.

[yoktan]

Thx for the informative thread everyone.

FYI:

I've been able to burn fine (don't know at what speeds) with some Memorex 8X DVD-R. But I just got a new batch (packaging is the only difference), and THEY DON'T EVEN BURN - they are just straight out rejected by my UJ-835E.

[holsteinson]

I love my PB 1.67 17" except to burn a DVD-R it really sucks!! my other laptop burns any brand of disk full speed.... yup we apple users are getting "top of the line components and our money worth!!" yup

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by holsteinson

I love my PB 1.67 17" except to burn a DVD-R it really sucks!! my other laptop burns any brand of disk full speed.... yup we apple users are getting "top of the line components and our money worth!!" yup

Just get the right discs. I have several different burners that are as picky as Apple's Matsushita laptop drives.

And I've learned it may be a good thing in disguise. Why? Because my drives that burned any media produced discs that were consistently readable only in the burner. They'd have problems on other machines, and it was EXTREMELY frustrating. OTOH, every disc I've burned with my picky drives work everywhere else. It's like having an a priori quality assurance built-in.

[yoktan]

I confirm reports that the Maxell 8X DVD-R (code MXL RG03) do indeed burn at 8X on my UJ-835E.

But it's a bitch finding those online with just that code to go on because websites rarely report that info. So I looked at my packaging to see what else was there, and bingo it appears that the Maxells that are made in Japan (I'm pretty sure those are the only ones that can have code MXLRG03) have a PN: 050880/MDM (this is more often reported by websites).

Furthermore, Maxell has a tech support # just for DVDs: (800) 377-5887.

HTH - this thread was a lot of help to me.

[reemas]

FujiFilm 8x only burns at 2x.

[tooki]

If I recall correctly from earlier in this thread, Fuji brand discs come from several plants. You need to specify. Earlier in the thread there's a link to an app that will get you the specifics.

tooki

[reemas]

Tooki, or anyone, is there a way we can set up a thread or list or site that has a definitive list of media that works? Its a major pain going through all these 5 pages of posts and sorting things out.

[yoktan]

Look at my post above - about 4 above and for posts by asxless (probably starting on page 4)

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by reemas

Tooki, or anyone, is there a way we can set up a thread or list or site that has a definitive list of media that works? Its a major pain going through all these 5 pages of posts and sorting things out.

Apple media works every time.

[redshiftdg]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Apple media works every time.

No, it doesn't. At least not with the UJ-835F that's inside my mac mini.

I bought a spindle of Apple branded 8x discs, and was burning using Toast 6. After the first 4 burns failed I tried a 4x disc, which worked fine.

Why is it so hard to make media that are backwards compatible?

[Simon]

It could be that your drive is really broken. Everybody I know has had good experiences with Apple media.

[jxdel]

I have was considering getting an upgrade drive that MCE technologies offers which is rated at 8X and has double layer recording as well. Check out their website below. Has anyone gotten this drive from MCE.

www.mcetech.com.

Note: Their site appears to be down right now

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Simon

It could be that your drive is really broken. Everybody I know has had good experiences with Apple media.

Same here. I would get the drive checked out under warranty. Mind you, it's quite probable that there are bad batches of Apple media once in a while.

[TailsToo]

Originally Posted by reemas

Tooki, or anyone, is there a way we can set up a thread or list or site that has a definitive list of media that works? Its a major pain going through all these 5 pages of posts and sorting things out.

Here's what I have so far: (All is DVD-R)

Apple 8X - Burns at 8x
Memorex 8x - Burns at 8x
Memorex 16x - Burns at 2x
Maxell 8x - Burns at 2x
CompUSA 1x - Burns at 1x

Anyone have better speeds with +R?

[reemas]

damn. i just bought an expensive pack of maxell 8x thinking it would burn at 8x.

[spiff72]

Originally Posted by TailsToo

Here's what I have so far: (All is DVD-R)

Apple 8X - Burns at 8x
Memorex 8x - Burns at 8x
Memorex 16x - Burns at 2x
Maxell 8x - Burns at 2x
CompUSA 1x - Burns at 1x

Anyone have better speeds with +R?

Tails Too,

Do you happen to know the media codes for the memorex 8X above?

I have tried Memorex 8X and and it burned at 2X... (code looks like: CMC MAG AE1). This was a 10 pack of DVD-R's in Jewel cases, with a brownish colored insert. The UPC on the insert is 3470705601, and under the UPC it says Part#: 3202 5601.

I also tried a spindle (25) of 16X Verbatim media (code MCC 03 RG20). These were also identified as 2X.

[TailsToo]

I looked but couldn't find a code on the Maxell media -

ARGH! This drive is really annoying - I almost want to just get an external and be done with the media hunt.

[spiff72]

Originally Posted by TailsToo

I looked but couldn't find a code on the Maxell media -

ARGH! This drive is really annoying - I almost want to just get an external and be done with the media hunt.

This code is not printed on the disc. You need a program like DVD Media Inspector to read the code...

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17154

Just run the prog while a blank disc is in the drive, make sure it says "Pre-recorded information in Lead-in", and then click the name of the drive in the upper window.

This will put a bunch of hex code in the lower window on the left, and on the right you can get the code:

Like this:

00 00 00 00 01 40 c1 fd 9e d8 52 00 02 55 0d 0e [email protected]..
88 9a 80 00 03 43 4d 43 20 4d 41 00 04 47 2e 20 .....CMC MA..G.
41 45 31 00 05 88 80 00 00 00 02 00 06 09 0d 11 AE1.............

Note the CMC MAG AE1 on the left...

Thanks,
Jeff

[TailsToo]

I'll check when I'm back in town again next week... in the meantime, has anyone tried the 8x Verbatium DVD-Rs that Best buy has on sale this week?

[sjk]

This older post caught my attention while browsing through this thread:

Originally Posted by asxless

Note: Fuji distributes 8x DVD-R media with at least one other code -- ProdiscF01 -- that we have not heard about yet.

Some Fuji-branded 8x media I bought last year last year has ProdiscF01 media ID. Prodisc-branded media is categorized as Premium Grade (between Standard and Professional) by online vendors like meritline and supermediastore, in the same category with Ritek/Ridata.

The UJ-845 burner (iMac G5 2005), OS X (10.4.1), Toast, and Popcorn all treat it like 2x media:

Code:
% drutil status
 Vendor   Product           Rev 
 MATSHITA DVD-R   UJ-845    DBN9

           Type: DVD-R                Name: /dev/disk4
      Cur Write:    2x DVD          Sessions: 0
      Max Write:    2x DVD            Tracks: 0
   Overwritable:  510:46:46         blocks:  2298496 /   4.71GB /   4.38GiB
     Space Free:  510:46:46         blocks:  2298496 /   4.71GB /   4.38GiB
     Space Used:   00:00:00         blocks:        0 /   0.00MB /   0.00MiB
    Writability: appendable, blank, overwritable
       Media ID: ProdiscF01

[Media ID is displayed in 10.4.x]

The DVR-107D (eMac 2004) with updated/hacked firmware, OS X (10.3.9), et.al. treat it like 8x:

Code:
% drutil status
 Vendor   Product           Rev 
 PIONEER  DVD-RW  DVR-107D  1.21

           Type: DVD-R                 Name: /dev/disk1
      Cur Write: 63xCD /  8xDVD    Sessions: 0
      Max Write: 63xCD /  8xDVD      Tracks: 0
   Overwritable:  510:46:46          blocks:  2298496 /   4.71GB /   4.38GiB
     Space Free:  510:46:46          blocks:  2298496 /   4.71GB /   4.38GiB
     Space Used:   00:00:00          blocks:        0 /   0.00MB /   0.00MiB
    Writability: appendable, blank, overwritable

I think it was recognized as 4x before the firmware upgrade and I never tried other 8x media until after that. It was my first DVD burner and I was conservative how to interpret Apple's "8x SuperDrive" claim without spending extra on incompatible 8x media.

Here's abbreviated info for other (and currently preferred) media in the UJ-845:

Ridata 4x DVD-R/-RW:
Cur Write: 4x DVD
Max Write: 4x DVD
Media ID: RITEKG04

Ridata 8x DVD+R:
Cur Write: 8x DVD
Max Write: 8x DVD

TDK 4x DVD-R:
Cur Write: 4x DVD
Max Write: 4x DVD
Media ID: TTG01

TDK 8x DVD-R:
Cur Write: 8x DVD
Max Write: 8x DVD
Media ID: TTG02

Toast/Popcorn will max out at 4x using 4x DVD-R media with the UJ-845 but up to 8x with the DVR-107D. The 8x Fujifilm/ProdiscF01 is the loser at 2x in the UJ-845 so I'll definitely avoid it, especially with the unpredictability for that brand.

I've mostly used Ridata 4x (both -R and -RW) with excellent results but will migrate -R burning to TDK 8x since it's proving to be the most compatible, reliable, and affordably available media for my current needs. Taiyo Yuden would probably be my first choice if it weren't for prohibitively high shipping rates.

. . .

About firmware upgrades, many of the changes listed on the Pioneer DVD/CD change history page are to add support or improvements for specific media. Seen that made me question whether Matshita (Panasonic) burners/firmware have more conservative support for certain media compared with other burners/firmware. And firmware upgrades for Matshita drives are low or non-existent. Ouch.

Seems to me burn speed issues with the UJ-835 are a combination of its weak firmware with media incompatibility. That Apple expects customers to buy their overpriced 8x media (which apparently the drive doesn't always recognize) or play media roulette to find a compatible brand, compounded with the lack of firmware upgrades, is clearly a bad situation. I was facing similar frustration with the eMac's DVR-107D until I got the third party firmware upgrade. Now it's the best burner I've got.

I was disappointed my iMac came with the UJ-845 (since I know some have the Pioneer DVR-K04) but it bothers me less since I've found acceptable 8x media for it, plus more general understanding of burner/firmware/media issues on Macs so I'm not a helpless victim of them. Anger may provide some temporary, selfish emotional relief but isn't my way to approach resolving these kinds of problems.

[sjk]

Re: 8x burn speeds. Using Toast, burns have been between 9-10 minutes total (on either burner and system), including writing the lead-in/out. I usually verify (definitely with data burns), which basically doubles the time. For video, I'll often create a disk image, then burn that and sometimes skip the verify.

[reemas]

will apple ever do something? or are they waiting for more complaints?

how do i contact them?

[echosphere]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1099385476541

I too was only getting 2x w/ Memorex DVD-R 8x.

Went to Best Buy here in Boston this morning and bought the Verbatim DVD-R 16x.
Guess what? Toast 6.1.1 will burn at 8x! Nice!

The UJ-845 didn't come w/ my 12" PB though, bought it from Ultradrives.com. Installed in external 5.25" cool looking aluminum case by Mapower from NewEgg.com.

recorder in Toast listed as:

Model: MATSHITADVD-RAM UJ-845S
Where: FireWire
Firmware: D100 / MMC-3
Cache Size: 2MB

~I think the media code is MMC-3? Not sure......

Hope this helps.

[sjk]

FYI, in case it hasn't been mentioned:

Blank DVD Media Quality Guide

[LMartin777]

I purchased a pack of 30 Fuji DVD-R at Staples for $17.99. I burned a full disk in 13 minutes in Roxio Toast. The Toast window showed the time as 6 minutes, but it actually took twice that. I had tried Memorex, and they took 30 minutes for a full burn. I also tried Maxell and they took 30 minutes also.

[toddeastman]

Sign it! It just started.

http://superdrive.crc.id.au/

This is a nasty issue that still has not even been addressed!

[reemas]

please post that link at the apple.com discussion forums.

post it under the 17" powerbook thread, as well has the 15" PB thread. thank you.

[toddeastman]

A few people have tried to post the link in the Apple forums. Apple keeps removing the posts having anything to do with http://superdrive.crc.id.au/ . Nice, huh?

As far as buying media...I bring my Powerbook with me. I buy a spindle and check it in the car before I leave. If it's not 8x I bring it back. If it is 8x I take it and hope the rest of the discs are the same. Sure it's a pain but I'm used to it....I'm a longtime Apple user.

Originally Posted by reemas

please post that link at the apple.com discussion forums.

post it under the 17" powerbook thread, as well has the 15" PB thread. thank you.

[Eug Wanker]

Get over it already. This "issue" has been blown way out of proportion by the whiners. Also, the fact that some of the whiners refuse to use 8X media from say Apple for example for testing just adds to the ridiculousness of the petition.

[tripletaker]

I've tried OfficeMax brand 8x DVD-R. It was actually 8x. I burned a 4 GB DVD in (supposedly 6 minutes) 7-8 minutes.

edit: After testing a few more times, it seems like it takes 12 minutes at the most to burn a 4.3 GB file... so I guess it's not relaly 8x...

[toddeastman]

I did try 8x Apple media.....the drive saw 2x media. So I paid too much for media that is supposed to work and doesn't and I paid too much for a drive that is supposed to hit an 8x burn but doesn't. It's an issue that Apple needs to address and doesn't. I guess things are only an issue if you have a problem.

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Get over it already. This "issue" has been blown way out of proportion by the whiners. Also, the fact that some of the whiners refuse to use 8X media from say Apple for example for testing just adds to the ridiculousness of the petition.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by toddeastman

I did try 8x Apple media.....the drive saw 2x media. So I paid too much for media that is supposed to work and doesn't and I paid too much for a drive that is supposed to hit an 8x burn but doesn't. It's an issue that Apple needs to address and doesn't. I guess things are only an issue if you have a problem.

If you are using true Apple 8X media and your drive repeatedly sees it only as 2X, then your drive does have a problem, and it needs to be repaired. Indeed, people HAVE been getting their drives replaced for lesser problems. Signing a petition for this situation is the wrong way to go, because it accomplishes nothing.

[hippiehop]

I have an iBook and just got the SuperDrive replaced, and they gave me one of these Matshita drives. I noticed right away that it was burning slow. I am waiting for my local service guy to get back to me on this, meanwhile, I have sent him links to these discussions as well as the petition.

I just want to report that my iBook did NOT have this type of drive in it. I'm not sure what it was, I think a Pioneer. It burnt DVDs at somewhere between 4x and 8x, around 10-15 minutes usually. This drive is also considerably noisier than the old one.

I notice that this problem started around a year ago, and the last post was in August. I wonder if they are still using these drives, or just pawning them off as replacement parts.

[sadproz]

how would i go about finding a hacked firmware for a MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-835E? I have Verbatim DVD-R (up to 16x) that will only burn at 2x. Id like to get 8x out of it... or atleast 4x. where did you guys get your hacked firmware?

by the way, check this out. how stupid! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10...rdrive_glitch/

[spiff72]

Originally Posted by sadproz

how would i go about finding a hacked firmware for a MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-835E? I have Verbatim DVD-R (up to 16x) that will only burn at 2x. Id like to get 8x out of it... or atleast 4x. where did you guys get your hacked firmware?

by the way, check this out. how stupid! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10...rdrive_glitch/

By "stupid" I assume that you mean The Register is stupid, right?

I think that the KB article referred to in that article is saying that the older drives (the 816) can't burn the 8X media reliably at 1X or 2X. The Apple KB model numbers are probably correct, and I think the DID spell Matshita correctly. The 816 is actually a 2X burner.

The Issues where the more recent PB's superdrives (rated at 8X) don't recognize most media as 8X is an entirely different issue.

[Stratus Fear]

While I certainly agree that a petition is the wrong way to go with this (it accomplishes nothing), I don't consider the people having problems to be "whiners." There is indeed a problem with these drives. The problem? Apple using an OEM that makes crap drives. Almost every other notebook drive that is similar in rated speeds and such doesn't have the same issues. Even known quality media like Verbatim and Apple having problems raises a huge red flag in my book.

[Peabo]

I've heard that Powerbook superdrives, burn the first 1/3 of the disc at 2x, the next 1/3 at 4x and the final 1/3 at 8x. Something to do with the rings of data getting bigger towards the outside of the disc. Apparently the 8x claim really means 'up to 8x' rather than 'constant 8x'.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by spiff72

The Apple KB model numbers are probably correct, and I think the DID spell Matshita correctly. The 816 is actually a 2X burner.

Matshita is the abbreviated form of Matsushita that that manufacturer uses in the drive firmware identification. I can only imagine that the amount of text is limited.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by z0ne81

I've heard that Powerbook superdrives, burn the first 1/3 of the disc at 2x, the next 1/3 at 4x and the final 1/3 at 8x. Something to do with the rings of data getting bigger towards the outside of the disc. Apparently the 8x claim really means 'up to 8x' rather than 'constant 8x'.

Well, I don't know what the actual burn speeds are on the inner zones, but otherwise, you're quite right: this is called Zone CLV, and I explained this early in this thread.

Indeed, the drives are 8x max, and they only achieve 8x at the very outer edge of the outermost zone. In other words, you'll never even achieve a peak burn speed of 8x unless you fill the disc to the very brim. The less the disc is filled, the slower the average burn rate.

That's why a "real" 4x burner will burn most discs in about the same time as an 8x max burner, since its innermost zone is actually burning faster.

tooki

[Peabo]

Does this mean that the 4x drive in the new MacBook Pro will be basically the same as what we've had in the old PowerBooks?

[tooki]

Most likely.

tooki

[spiff72]

Originally Posted by z0ne81

Does this mean that the 4x drive in the new MacBook Pro will be basically the same as what we've had in the old PowerBooks?

That was my speculation a few posts back...