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Poogy · Apr 6, 2006, 07:50 PM

Hello all,

Yes, I'm afraid I'm installing XP on my Macbook Pro.

This thread is intended for people actually using Boot Camp and XP with their Intel-based Mac, to share their experiences, gotchas, etc. I'll start.

When I launched "Boot Camp", it told me that "some files could not be moved", and quit on me. The problem was that my disk was fairly full, so there wasn't enough contiguous space at the end of the drive for a new partition.

To fix the situation, I deleted a few gigs of junk, and then rebooted in target disk mode. By experiment, I confirmed that Disk Warrior will not work on an Intel Mac in target disk mode. However, iDefrag does work, and successfully moved all my data to the front of the disk.

After rebooting into OSX, Boot Camp started normally and partitioned my drive with no problems. XP is now installing, and claims it will be done in 19 minutes.

lordhamster · Apr 6, 2006, 11:54 PM

Worked Well for me. everything works, except for isight and my bluetooth mouse. Isight crashes XP when I try to use it. The bluetooth mouse recognizes then just does nothing... its a logitech 270.

Anyway, I have one question. I've got a Macbook Pro, how the heck do I hit Ctrl-Alt-Del in XP? I tried and it won't work.

Poogy · Apr 6, 2006, 11:56 PM

Haven't tried Ctrl-Alt-Del, but I have a question too: how the heck do you right click?

I'm writing this using Firefox on XP on a Macbook Pro. WEEEEIRD.

Teronzhul · Apr 7, 2006, 12:56 AM

Well, if you just need the task manager, instead of ctrl-alt-delete you could just start>run>taskmgr

If you need to bypass a pro login screen, well, I dunno. I don't have an intel mac.

jasonsRX7 · Apr 7, 2006, 01:06 AM

Have you tried Ctrl-Shift click for right clicking?

christ · Apr 7, 2006, 05:16 AM

You need a MS utility called remapkey

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 06:07 AM

Ctrl-Shift-Click works for right clicking. w00t! Now I can play minesweeper!

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 06:13 AM

Next MS/keyboard question is: how do you do page-up, etc? The FN key appears simply not to work.

Dr.Michael · Apr 7, 2006, 07:15 AM

Well, no experiences but a thought.

I think it is dangerous to install a partition reformating software thats in beta. Although we have the experience that apple software is comparably bug free, I cannot recall that they ever did a software like that.

In another forum someone already found his hd wiped after using boot camp.
In my eyes boot camp is a tool to win Windows users for mac hardware and eventually for Mac OS. For them it is useful. Boot camp is also good for apples stock price. Analysts love things like that, but analysts don't think about tomorrow and they don't care about your data security.

At least I wouldn't try boot camp without a tested and up-to-date backup.

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Poogy

Ctrl-Shift-Click works for right clicking. w00t! Now I can play minesweeper!

I take it back. As near as I can tell, there's no way to right-click. Further, remapkey doesn't know about the FN key, so it doesn't seem to give a way to remap them to get page-up and page-down.

Total lack of right-clickage is a problem.

Mithras · Apr 7, 2006, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Poogy

I take it back. As near as I can tell, there's no way to right-click. Further, remapkey doesn't know about the FN key, so it doesn't seem to give a way to remap them to get page-up and page-down.

Total lack of right-clickage is a problem.

From the thread in the MBP forum:
http://www.geocities.com/pronto4u/applemouse.html

Mithras · Apr 7, 2006, 11:13 AM

My newbie Windows question is: is there a free antivirus program that will plug into SP2's monitoring service?

ort888 · Apr 7, 2006, 11:14 AM

If you don't want to partition, can you run Windows off of an external drive or slave drive?

RAILhead · Apr 7, 2006, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mithras

My newbie Windows question is: is there a free antivirus program that will plug into SP2's monitoring service?

Use Avast! Home Edition: http://www.avast.com/eng/avast_4_home.html

Works wonderfully and it's 100% free (though you do have register via email). If you don't like that, try Grisoft's AVG Free: http://grisoft.com/doc/289/lng/us/tpl/tpl01

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mithras

From the thread in the MBP forum:
http://www.geocities.com/pronto4u/applemouse.html

Nice! I found an alternate workaround: AutoHotkey. It's a resident program that intercepts keystrokes and performs translations. I like it because it allows for more conversions than Apple Mouse Utility. So far here's what I'm doing:

1) Translate Ctrl-LeftButton into RightButton

2) Translate BS into Del--it feels more natural, except that it deletes the wrong char. A side-effect of mapping #2 is that Ctrl-Alt-Delete does exactly what you'd expect.

3) Translate Command-BS into Backspace, to get the desired delete behavior

4) Translate Command-Arrow into page-up, page-down, home and end, to make up for the lack of FN key.

For the interested, here's what I put in my AutoHotkey script. I added a space before and after the :: in order to avoid auto-smileys on the message board. Remove them to use the script.

; Macbook XP settings: recover the lost right-click, etc
^LButton :: RButton
BS :: Del
#BS :: Backspace
#Up :: PgUp
#Down :: PgDn
#Left :: Home
#Right :: End

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 01:57 PM

Here's another tip: my office WLAN uses LEAP, which doesn't work with XP's native wireless support. In order to get it working, I installed the AR5006X Client Utility, and it works great.

I had trouble finding the download, since it apparently isn't available from Atheros's web site. I went to Driverguide.com, searched on AR5006X, and downloaded the file 4.1.2.56_Installer.zip. Run the installer, and at one point it will ask whether you want to "replace the newer file"; say no. Reboot, and your wireless will work fine, and you'll be able to connect to LEAP networks.

One downside is that driverguide.com makes you sign up to download the driver, and subjects you to a series of advertisements before letting you do the download. Ugh.

Another issue to be aware of is that the Atheros client appears to require manual selection of a wireless profile (I might be wrong on this one). It doesn't appear as seemless as Mac's wireless, which finds the first recognized network and connects to it.

Mithras · Apr 7, 2006, 02:38 PM

BTW I helped a friend get some Windows drivers from driverguide.com, and got tons of quasi-spam. I used a driverguide-only email address, so it wasn't a problem, but you might be careful.

jasonsRX7 · Apr 7, 2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mithras

BTW I helped a friend get some Windows drivers from driverguide.com, and got tons of quasi-spam. I used a driverguide-only email address, so it wasn't a problem, but you might be careful.

Or use http://www.bugmenot.com/ to get a login.

Mithras · Apr 7, 2006, 03:41 PM

Another option for the keyboard is Microsoft's Remapkey.exe, which is simple to use, though perhaps not as powerful as AutoHoyKey. I'll take a look at that now.

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Mithras

Another option for the keyboard is Microsoft's Remapkey.exe, which is simple to use, though perhaps not as powerful as AutoHoyKey. I'll take a look at that now.

I was unable to use remapkey to simulate right-clicks. It can, I believe, handle the other mappings I made.

dlefebvre · Apr 7, 2006, 05:12 PM

Let's not forget it's just a Public Beta.

Doofy · Apr 7, 2006, 05:15 PM

You are all Windows' bitches now.

It starts with a little partition trouble, then a bit of mouse driver trouble, then a bit of something else trouble. Before you know it, you're owned.

Looking at this thread should be enough to remind us all of why we went to Mac in the first place.

Poogy · Apr 7, 2006, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

You are all Windows' bitches now.

Thanks, that's very helpful. Very helpful. I suspect, however, that folks interested in this thread are generally software engineers or similar, who are required as part of their work to use multiple platforms.

jasonsRX7 · Apr 7, 2006, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Poogy

Thanks, that's very helpful. Very helpful. I suspect, however, that folks interested in this thread are generally software engineers or similar, who are required as part of their work to use multiple platforms.

network admin here...

Doofy · Apr 7, 2006, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Poogy

Thanks, that's very helpful. Very helpful. I suspect, however, that folks interested in this thread are generally software engineers or similar, who are required as part of their work to use multiple platforms.

You know many engineers who're going to shut down all their apps and reboot their machine every time they need to check their work on another platform? No, they'll still need two machines. So, until you can run XP simultaneously with OS X on the same machine (like VPC), this thread is for tinkerers, not professionals. And thus suitable for non-helpful jokes.

Dr.Michael · 06:50 PM

http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/...ngiteasier.mov

Thats one of my favorites!

Eriamjh · Apr 7, 2006, 08:32 PM

I got a corrupt "pci.sys" file error. It said to use "r" after booting to the CD. All that did was put me into DOS. Stupid windows!

Poogy · Apr 8, 2006, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

You know many engineers who're going to shut down all their apps and reboot their machine every time they need to check their work on another platform? No, they'll still need two machines. So, until you can run XP simultaneously with OS X on the same machine (like VPC), this thread is for tinkerers, not professionals. And thus suitable for non-helpful jokes.

It's a free country.

jasonsRX7 · Apr 8, 2006, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

this thread is for tinkerers, not professionals. And thus suitable for non-helpful jokes.

I'm a professional who bought a MacBook Pro for work. I'll be in Windows on it most of the time, and boot into OS X if I need to work with video for presentations. In the past, I've had to use my personal PowerBook for that. I had ordered a Thinkpad T60, but canceled it and ordered the MacBook after Apple released Boot Camp. It should be here Tuesday, so I'll post my experience and try to be helpful.

jasonsRX7 · 10:16 PM

My MacBook came in today... I'm installing XP on it right now. The whole process has been very smooth and easy so far. I did all the available OS X updates, then the firmware update. Deleted anything extra I didn't want (languages, etc). Downloaded Boot Camp and made the driver cd, and it repartitioned the drives (you just drag a bar to adjust how much space to set for OS X and Windows). Then it asked to insert the Windows cd and reboot.

Now Windows is installing like usual, so far so good...

Well, it's installed... nothing weird to report, everything went as advertised... the MacBook itself sucks - WAY too hot, and the stupid trackpad is so wide that my palms hit it and make the mouse jump all around. Not that I can leave my palms on the surface anyway, it's too hot

I'm going to give it a couple of days and if I can't live with the heat, sent it back and reorder the Thinkpad T60 I'm wishing I had gotten.

weberik · Apr 13, 2006, 07:37 PM

While I am a firm believer that there is more to computer performance then benchmarks, has anyone tried any benchmarks in windows to compare to PCs? would be interested in the results to compare to similiarly equiped PCs, with bootcamp out, it makes Apple seem like a tempting source for my next computer

aristotles · Apr 13, 2006, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

You know many engineers who're going to shut down all their apps and reboot their machine every time they need to check their work on another platform? No, they'll still need two machines. So, until you can run XP simultaneously with OS X on the same machine (like VPC), this thread is for tinkerers, not professionals. And thus suitable for non-helpful jokes.

Instead of trolling here, why don't you pay attention and look up parallels. They offer an OS X beta version of their virtualization software. Apparently XP boots in 10 seconds in a VM using their software on a Core Duo.

BTW. Software Developer here. In Canada, we are not allowed to call ourselves "Engineers".

ghporter · Apr 13, 2006, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Mithras

My newbie Windows question is: is there a free antivirus program that will plug into SP2's monitoring service?

Look here. The Internet and search engines ARE your friend! And surprisingly, even Microsoft is helpful here!

ghporter · Apr 13, 2006, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I got a corrupt "pci.sys" file error. It said to use "r" after booting to the CD. All that did was put me into DOS. Stupid windows!

NO. WRONG. It puts you in the Recovery Console. It's a command line interface that lets you manipulate your Windows installation and fix it. READ UP ON RECOVERY CONSOLE on Microsoft's Windows site; you'll find pretty straightforward instructions for how to replace the corrupt file from your installation disc.

Of course if it's the disc that's corrupt, you should get it replaced--at no cost, since it's the disc that's boogered up, not something you did.

n8236 · Apr 14, 2006, 01:27 AM

Being a 13 yr Windows user who just bought my first Mac (MBP), I'm totally loving the ability to be in both operating systems. One of the big reasons why I bought the MBP was due to the rumored news in booting into XP from OSx. Apple laptops are top notch quality and now that my dream into booting XP has come true, i am one VERY happy owner.

I do spend most of my time in OSx, but games are my other life, so Boot Camp is a savior. I'm looking forward to the next release of Boot Camp having full driver support. It's gonna be sweeeeeeet.

Mithras · Apr 16, 2006, 07:08 PM

Here's another question: anyone know of utilities for both Mac OS X and Windows that will automatically set the clock using NTP on boot?

It's annoying how (as the Boot Camp readme notes) booting into the other OS means the clock is always wrong. And while OS X seems to eventually notice and fix the clock, XP lets it sit out of sync for hours.

ghporter · Apr 16, 2006, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mithras

Here's another question: anyone know of utilities for both Mac OS X and Windows that will automatically set the clock using NTP on boot?

It's annoying how (as the Boot Camp readme notes) booting into the other OS means the clock is always wrong. And while OS X seems to eventually notice and fix the clock, XP lets it sit out of sync for hours.

Look here for a Linux/Windows-Dual Boot-oriented explanation of how time services work AND under heading 10, details on how to make Windows XP do what you want. It involves editing the Registry, so it's not for the faint of heart, but it looks like it should work.

The issue at hand is, of course, the same basic issue as described in the article I linked: Windows likes the system clock to be set to local time, and *nix-based OSs like system time to be Zulu time (GMT). OS X is a little more flexible than that, but not enough to avoid the time difference when you dual boot to an OS that thinks differently.

Mithras · Apr 17, 2006, 10:05 AM

Awesome, thanks.

Mithras · Apr 19, 2006, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Poogy

Nice! I found an alternate workaround: AutoHotkey. It's a resident program that intercepts keystrokes and performs translations. I like it because it allows for more conversions than Apple Mouse Utility. So far here's what I'm doing:

1) Translate Ctrl-LeftButton into RightButton

2) Translate BS into Del--it feels more natural, except that it deletes the wrong char. A side-effect of mapping #2 is that Ctrl-Alt-Delete does exactly what you'd expect.

3) Translate Command-BS into Backspace, to get the desired delete behavior

4) Translate Command-Arrow into page-up, page-down, home and end, to make up for the lack of FN key.

For the interested, here's what I put in my AutoHotkey script. I added a space before and after the :: in order to avoid auto-smileys on the message board. Remove them to use the script.

; Macbook XP settings: recover the lost right-click, etc
^LButton :: RButton
BS :: Del
#BS :: Backspace
#Up :: PgUp
#Down :: PgDn
#Left :: Home
#Right :: End

Cool, thanks. I used AutoHotKey to make right-Windows + period another way to right-click, which was useful for doing a simultaneous left & right click.

Barefoot Matt · Apr 23, 2006, 06:31 PM

My experiences:

If you've installed and set up parallels and then try to set up boot camp, and you get a "cannot move files" error, it's the parallels virtual partition that it's complaining about. If you want to use both boot camp and parallels, set up boot camp first.

The lack of a function key is quite irritating, especially for the brightness, volume, etc. controls. The lack of a right click without special tinkering as described above is also annoying.

I really wish I could transfer files between the two partitions. There are a few programs out there that let windows read HFS, but of course none of them were designed for reading another partition on the same disk since that situation used to be impossible. I'll give them a try sometime soon. It's convenient that OS X automatically mounts the windows partition (although it can't be renamed from "Untitled" and is read only). If only windows could do the same, then I'd be set.

Windows found a hardware device titled simply "USB device" or something similar, and couldn't find a driver for it. I haven't had time to figure out what it might be.

Mithras · Apr 23, 2006, 10:41 PM

just for the record, as the Boot Camp install notes explain, the Windows partition is read-only only if you format as NTFS. If you use FAT32, which is fine for small sizes, you can read&write fine.

Barefoot Matt · Apr 23, 2006, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mithras

just for the record, as the Boot Camp install notes explain, the Windows partition is read-only only if you format as NTFS. If you use FAT32, which is fine for small sizes, you can read&write fine.

Bah... and it's still not possible to go from NTFS to FAT32 without wiping the partition, right? I don't want to reinstall.

ghporter · Apr 24, 2006, 09:15 AM

Back up that partition to an external drive and then reformat it to FAT32 and restore it. Also, there are some third-party packages that will change a NTFS partition to FAT32. PartitonMagic 7, for example does this, and it isn't even the latest version...

But back up your data first anyway!!!!! Always a good idea to do this before you do ANYTHING to a partition.

n8236 · Jul 1, 2006, 01:31 AM

I have the same issue as the original poster, but don't have idefrag and don't want to reinstall OSx. Is there a way to do fix this? I want to reinstall XP to play Titan Quest.

jinksPadlock · Jul 6, 2006, 07:48 PM

Hello,

Having fun with AutoHotkey, Thanks for the link. I was really missing my home and end keys.

Shift+F10 is another quick fix for the right click dilemma. This'll get you through the install.

It has worked on everything but the system tray for me. AutoHotkey is much better though.

Has anyone used any peripherals, do drivers work? I was thinking about a new mouse for the laptop and wondering if there would be any issues there?

Also I got XP up with no glitches and have been running SQL Server 2005 and VS 2005 with no problems so far.

badnewsblair · Jul 10, 2006, 10:40 AM

Installed BootCamp strictly for games.

Even then, I still play and use Mac OSX almost exclusively though.

Gaming on the Windows side is what I expected. I have played Dawn of War and FEAR and they work wonderfully. I have a word to the wise though. Older games WILL have issues.

I could not for the life of me get the original UT Tournament to work correctly. FPS were low no matter what settings I had. I suppose it was tightly related to drivers as that game is not taxing on a machine like this whatsoever. Perhaps there are still some Beta bugs to work out at Apple. Just wanted to share my one problem with the program. Other than that, no issues installing or using it.

Excited to see what Apple does with this technology in Tiger!