[jojo gunne]

Good-bye Pontiac. I have many fond memories.

[Art Vandelay]

GM is reducing it to a niche brand that will be carried at select dealers. They aren't killing/selling it like Hummer, Saab, and Saturn.

Btw, that slogan was Oldsmobile's, not Pontiac's.

[jojo gunne]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Btw, that slogan was Oldsmobile's, not Pontiac's.

Yeah, but it sounded ko0l. Is Olds still around? Sh!t is happening so fast I can't keep up.

[Art Vandelay]

Nope, they went away in 2004.

[rickey939]

Hahahahahaha.

[shifuimam]

Sad....the only American car I've ever owned was a Pontiac Grand Prix GT.

It was a good car, for the most part. The interior was pretty cheap. I doubt I'll buy American again.

[brassplayersrock²]

so that's why the dealership I bought mine at closed. damn it.

[angelmb]

So what comes next ??

[SpaceMonkey]

The number of GM brands was and still is ridiculous. I have no idea why they haven't trimmed it way down by now.

[d4nth3m4n]

does this mean i can't buy my g8 st?

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

The number of GM brands was and still is ridiculous. I have no idea why they haven't trimmed it way down by now.

It's really expensive to eliminate a brand. It cost GM over a $1 billion just to get rid of Oldsmobile. They had to buy out all the dealers.

Although, I do agree that they have too many brands. Even once down to their new core brands, they have too many. GMC is pointless but I understand why they're keeping it. They don't want another dealer revolt from the Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealers if they remove two of their three brands.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

GMC is pointless but I understand why they're keeping it.

GMC is the Heavy-Duty truck wing of GM. Some of the larger trucks are not available as a Chevy, only as GMC.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

It's really expensive to eliminate a brand. It cost GM over a $1 billion just to get rid of Oldsmobile. They had to buy out all the dealers.

This is hilarious. Who knew.

[sek929]

I hated when they axed Olds. Their current lineup of cars had more character and balls than the entire GM lineup.

So they kept Buick.....

[Dakar V]

Buick: Because the cars old people drive should be as unattractive as the old themselves.

[sek929]

The Buick Lucerne - because we can't name cars to save our f**king lives™

[Dakar V]

Lucerne almost sounds like a drug, so maybe they now their target audience better than you're giving them credit for.

[scottiB]

The Buick brand is very popular in China. GM won't drop it.

[SSharon]

I wouldn't miss pontiac, or half of their other brands for that matter.
My mom used to drive an olds and it made it to 150,000 miles even if it needed repairs every other month towards the end. She drives a buick now and I feel like I have more control over a yacht than it.

I'll stick with my japanese built camry, thanks.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Sad....the only American car I've ever owned was a Pontiac Grand Prix GT.

It was a good car, for the most part. The interior was pretty cheap. I doubt I'll buy American again.

You have no idea what you're missing. I'll never own anything other than Dodge. Best American brand out there. I have 4 in the driveway.

Btw, the Enterprise was my last ship before I retired. I was in S-8.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

I wouldn't miss pontiac, or half of their other brands for that matter.
My mom used to drive an olds and it made it to 150,000 miles even if it needed repairs every other month towards the end. She drives a buick now and I feel like I have more control over a yacht than it.

I'll stick with my japanese built camry, thanks.

Camry's are bland and boring. I drive past a new Toyota dealer every day and every single car blends in to one another. Bland and boring boxes. Plus the new Camry's are made in America.

[ctt1wbw]

I'll never understand why people just blatantly hate American brand cars. They always go back to the crappy Dodge K car or a pile of crap old Grand Prix and say ALL American brands are crap. You guys are missing out on the great cars. Just because something says Toyota doesn't mean it's better than anything on the planet.

[sek929]

Toyota at least knows how to not only run a car company, but bring it from being scoffed at in the 70s to the largest automaker on Earth.

If nothing else, I'd like to see the BIg 3 adopt the business end of Toyota.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by sek929 

GMC is the Heavy-Duty truck wing of GM. Some of the larger trucks are not available as a Chevy, only as GMC.

We're not talking about heavy duty vehicles. This is about light duty vehicles. Your typical Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealer is not going to be carrying heavy duty commercial trucks.

Regardless, you can rebrand all the unique heavy duty GMCs to Chevy and still kill off GMC. Or kill GMC at the light duty level and keep it only for heavy duty and let Chevy be the light duty source.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

Camry's are bland and boring. I drive past a new Toyota dealer every day and every single car blends in to one another. Bland and boring boxes. Plus the new Camry's are made in America.

I agree for the most part. I need my car to get me to and from school/work/home reliably, not look pretty. My camry is a 92' and was made in japan.

I'm sure there are decent american cards out there, but I won't buy an SUV which american companies seem to love and every camry my family has ever had (89, 92, 94, 96, 99, 01) has always outlived every american car my family has had (olds, buick, 2 fords, suburban).

I don't want to get all political with bailout talk, so I will just say there is nothing fundamentally wrong with letting a company die.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

You have no idea what you're missing. I'll never own anything other than Dodge. Best American brand out there.

Based on what? Reliability? Build quality? Data taken from a wide base of users? Or just your own biased opinion? The fact that you say you'll never buy anything but a Dodge pretty much disqualified you from offering any info that can be taken seriously.

[Dakar V]

Subscribe to this thread
(I have a feeling)

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

I'll never own anything other than Dodge.

You might want to start thinking about a different brand. Chrysler is the least likely to survive of the Detroit 3. They have no international sales to fall back on unlike GM and Ford. They are owned by a hedge fund that is desperate to offload them. Senators and Reps. are now calling for Chrysler to be merged into another company. GM is the most likely candidate for that. If that happens, most analysts agree that only the minivans and Jeep will be saved. Everything else will be dumped.

Not a rosy outlook ahead for Chrysler.

[hyteckit]

I must say that Dodge does make some cool looking cars.

[hyteckit]

No more Pontiac! Man, KITT was based off the Pontiac Trans Am.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I must say that Dodge does make some cool looking cars.

What...like the Nitro?



One of the ugliest vehicles currently made.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

No more Pontiac! Man, KITT was based off the Pontiac Trans Am.

I thought KITT was a Mustang?

hahahaha

[Laminar]

Also, the Challenger is an absolute disappointment. The Mustang GT500 is lighter, faster (half a second in the quarter is a LOT), and gets better mileage to boot.

[hyteckit]

KITT was a Pontiac Trans Am. The current KITT is a mustang.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

KITT is a Pontiac Trans Am. The current KITT is a mustang.

There is no other KITT! You must be imagining things.

[hyteckit]

Laminar, is that a Chrysler Sebring in your sig?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Laminar, is that a Chrysler Sebring in your sig?

You're new here, aren't you.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

You're new here, aren't you.

Nah. It looks like you are the newbie here.

[lothar56]

Nah. It looks like you are the newbie here.

[ctt1wbw]

My Durango has 130k miles on it. It's a 2005 and has never broken down. How's that for durability and reliability?

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Based on what? Reliability? Build quality? Data taken from a wide base of users? Or just your own biased opinion? The fact that you say you'll never buy anything but a Dodge pretty much disqualified you from offering any info that can be taken seriously.

And you are the resident expert on Dodge? I take it your dad hasn't bought you one yet. I really don't think you are an expert on anything except being a spoiled brat.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

My Durango has 130k miles on it. It's a 2005 and has never broken down. How's that for durability and reliability?

That is a sample size of one. Try again.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ctt1wbw 

And you are the resident expert on Dodge?

No, but I know a thing or two about statistics, which is what my post addressed. Also, owning a car doesn't make you an expert on it.

I take it your dad hasn't bought you one yet. I really don't think you are an expert on anything except being a spoiled brat.

I've addressed this point before - I'm 100% self-sufficient, and claiming that I'm not is baiting and will be treated as such from now on.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

so that's why the dealership I bought mine at closed. damn it.

No, that's not why. They haven't killed the brand yet. It will take months, or even a year or longer, if they decide to kill it, which rumor says they likely will. Does anyone here have a link to something reputable that says it's a done deal? The way the OP opened the thread implies it is, and I haven't seen any such news on any sites I've read today.

[ctt1wbw]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Also, the Challenger is an absolute disappointment. The Mustang GT500 is lighter, faster (half a second in the quarter is a LOT), and gets better mileage to boot.

Which Challenger?

[Art Vandelay]

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/wp-cont...-viability.pdf

They aren't killing Pontiac outright. They're reducing it to a niche brand that will be carried at select dealers, much like how certain dealers can carry Ford SVT products.

[ctt1wbw]

[QUOTE=Laminar;3773221]No, but I know a thing or two about statistics, which is what my post addressed. Also, owning a car doesn't make you an expert on it.


Neither does reading statistics. Statistically, I still think you're a spoiled brat.

[Art Vandelay]

Seriously, keep it on subject people.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/wp-cont...-viability.pdf

They aren't killing Pontiac outright. They're reducing it to a niche brand that will be carried at select dealers, much like how certain dealers can carry Ford SVT products.

That's fine and dandy, but it isn't going to be as easy, or inexpensive, as most people think. Dealers in most states are protected by very powerful franchise laws, and they're also usually politically connected, via lobbying organizations. It cost a reputed $1 billion to get rid of Oldsmobile, and if GM can't sell Hummer, Saab, and Saturn, which are also reputed to be on the block (I didn't read the article you linked to yet), it's going to cost them billions to rid themselves of these franchises.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...prss=rss_print

That's why I still believe that this is just a futile effort, and that even with federal help, it's only a matter of time until at least GM and Chrysler, and probably even Ford, are gone from the auto scene. The Chinese are starting to get into car making in big ways, and like the Japanese did when they first got into the business, the Chinese are building crappy cars now. Ten years from now, when they'll still be able to make a car a lot cheaper in China than in the U. S., we'll be buying Chinese cars. We started selling our souls the minute a few execs started spouting the word "globalization," where a few made out, and the rest of us didn't. Very soon China will supplant the U. S. as the world's largest manufacturer, and the shell game we've been playing the last few years, where a few have gotten rich just moving money around, isn't going to help anybody. If you have a viable good to sell, at what the consumer perceives as a good price, you win. We have less and less of that to offer. The ride downhill has only just begun, folks.

[Art Vandelay]

I didn't say it was going to be cheap or easy. Plus, I was the one that mentioned the $1 billion cost for killing Oldsmobile above.

However, if this deal in Congress gets approved, there will be a "car czar" appointed that will have the power to nullify contracts just as a bankruptcy judge can. So, it may be easier in this case than with Oldsmobile.

Another thing to remember is that GM has merged almost all of their Pontiac, GMC, and Buick dealers into single locations as part of a single brand channel. This also will help in reducing Pontiac to a niche since dealers will still have two other brands to sell. I'm assuming that Buick is going to end up with more product at the end of this too to offset Pontiac.

[ctt1wbw]

Sorry dude, but ten years from now, you'll be saying that in ten years China will be building better cars than the United States.