[Chrisspoon]

When apple will decide to give us two-button mouse?
OS X and 9, use extensively the use of two button(which we activate with the Ctrl key).

Ask for it!

[Randycat2001]

Not only a 2nd button, but a wheel, as well! These have come to be the basic level of mouse tools, and it's time to see these acknowledged in Apples cool mouse designs!

I've mentioned it before, but it would be neat to see the 2nd button and wheel consolidated as a touch strip (like they have on laptops, except just a narrow strip instead of a square). Just tap the strip to activate the 2nd button. Just stroke the strip to simulate the action of the wheel.

[Millennium]

Before I continue, let me state that I use a four-button trackball, with all of the buttons tricked out.

I doubt that Apple will ever provide a multibutton mouse. And frankly, I applaud them for this. Multiple buttons are nice for advanced users and gamers, but they only get in the way of and confuse new users. This isn't helped by the fact that lazy interface designers sometimes provide functionality that can only be accessed by the right mouse button, which should be used only for shortcuts to functionality that is accessible by some other means.

By including a one-button mouse, Apple ensures that developers cannot assume that their users all have multibutton mice. Because of that, developers are more inclined to write a proper interface, where multiple buttons may be convenient but are never necessary. Contrast this with many Windows or X11 programs, where there is often no way but multiple buttons to access certain types of functionality. Since the buttons are distinguishable from one another only by position (and perhaps shape, though this depends on the type of mouse one is using), this is Bad Interface.

By including only one button by default, Apple helps to ensure better interfaces on Mac programs. By including support for multiple buttons (even though they do not make multibutton mice themselves), they allow the system to grow with the user. It's the best of both worlds.

[Raman]

.. oh yeah, that would justify the rediculous prices on apple mice!

FYI my M$ 4 button + wheel mouse works in OSX. OSX only includes support for the wheel + 2 buttons right out of the box which is great. maybe m$ will add support for the 2 other buttons + the click of the mouse wheel (which is the long lost 5th button.

[osiris]

Yes !!!!!!!!!!!

I want an Apple branded Two-Button, Scroll Wheeling, Optical Wireless mouse.
And an Apple Keyboard that is also wireless, but with a FRIGGIN POWER BUTTON on it.

If Apple does this, I will forever be convinced as a consumer and investor that Apple gives
it's customers what it wants (at least sometimes!)

[DoctorGonzo]

They should at least offer them as BTO options.

[torifile]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
They should at least offer them as BTO options.

Why? You can't go to the store and buy one yourself? If they did have a BTO option, you'd complain about how expensive it was.

[DoctorGonzo]

Why should someone be forced to buy a mouse they have no interest in using, then to buy another one?

Apple could simply offer a choice! Gasp! Yes! A choice!

Other computer makers offer you the choice of what mouse you want, usually for little or no charge.

What baffles me is why Apple considers it preferable to have to remember a zillion different click-modifiers, but not to figure out a second dedicated button. I've found that the novice user can much more easily play with the different mouse buttons and figure out what's going on than to experiment with click-modifiers.

My folks had all kind of problems figuring when to shift-click, or apple-click, or option-click, or control-option click, or whatever. Geez, I still get confused myself!

[typoon]

I agree there should be a 2 button mouse but I think the reason Apple hasn't done it yet is because they know most people don;t need or would know what to do with a second mouse button. I have talked to many people from doing tech support that should not and do not know what or how to use the second mouse button. Though I would like to see a second mouse button most basic home users don't need or would know how to use the right button.

[spectre]

"What baffles me is why Apple considers it preferable to have to remember a zillion different click-modifiers, but not to figure out a second dedicated button. I've found that the novice user can much more easily play with the different mouse buttons and figure out what's going on than to experiment with click-modifiers."

The thing is.. Users dont need to remember a zillion different click-modifiers because they aren't necessary. If the only way to change the desktop was by control-clicking on the desktop, and selecting "change desktop background", then yes, I would agree with you.

On the other hand, Apple should offer a multi-button mouse as a BTO option. Heck, if apple made a really great mouse (scroll wheel, 2 buttons (if not more), wireless, and optical) they could sell them seperatly and maybe make a little dough...

I think the mouse issue is blown out of proportion though. The only time when I feel that a multi-button mouse is really a must have is in gaming... other then that, I'm generally happy with a single button mouse.

Ben

[Millennium]

What baffles me is why Apple considers it preferable to have to remember a zillion different click-modifiers, but not to figure out a second dedicated button.

Because click modifiers are not necessary. Everything you can do with a click modifier, you can do some other way. It's just there as a convenience feature. And again, programmers who code their apps such that you can only access them via these click modifiers should be shot [DISCLAIMER: I will not be the one shooting you ]

My folks had all kind of problems figuring when to shift-click, or apple-click, or option-click, or control-option click, or whatever. Geez, I still get confused myself!

However, all of you chose to learn them. It wasn't necessary for you to do so. You could have stuck with more traditional methods, like menus and dialogs and such. But you wanted something quicker. That's fine, but it entails a learning curve. Shortcuts aren't always logical or obvious. They don't have to be, as long as there's some logical or obvious way to get the job done.

[torifile]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
Why should someone be forced to buy a mouse they have no interest in using, then to buy another one?

Apple could simply offer a choice! Gasp! Yes! A choice!

Other computer makers offer you the choice of what mouse you want, usually for little or no charge.

Like who? They offer you a POS mouse that can be "upgraded" to a slightly less POS. If you want a real mouse like an intellimouse explorer or something, you have to pay about the same price as you would in the store. Apple gives us a damn high quality mouse for free as opposed to the $5 mouse Dell gives you and you want a multi-button mouse for free? Get real. Get the Apple Pro mouse, get any other mouse you want, then sell the pro mouse for $30. At least these mice are resellable. And besides, since when is BTO free? Almost never...But that's one more thing for you to b!tch about...

[Randycat2001]

That's the kicker, though. The Pro mouse is a cool, cool mouse to have. ...But I would want it even more if it had a 2nd button and wheel support. Since I have moved on to a 2 button with wheel (and wheel click to boot), it's really difficult for me to consider going to a single button Pro mouse, as cool as it looks.

[gorgonzola]

Moving to Peripherals forum.

thanks

------------------
the oddball newsletter
------------------
it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

You know, what's funny to me are these arguments claiming that two-button mice are hard to use. They're not hard to use, and in fact, even from the beginning Apple knew that multibutton mice were far more powerful. The real problem was that people had no experience with mice at all! They just weren't commonplace.

So in order to facilitate introduction of the mouse to society, the decision was made in ~1979-80 to go with a one button design. (although some two button mice were still prototyped)

Fast forward to 2001, and over 90% of the world uses two button mice. I think that everyone is familiar with them at this point. Apple can no longer reasonably claim that single buttons are worthwhile for people who have never picked one up before - and it's ridiculous, given the usefulness of contextual menus. (they benefit greatly from Ye Olde Fitt's Lawe; guess why)

One possible solution, though I'd want to test it, would be to simply map two buttons to the same function. However, I suspect that testing - which Apple's not so hot at lately - would indicate that people expect different functions from the right button and would be fine.

As for wheels, yeah, they're also a good idea, though I would prefer a jog control so that I don't have to move my finger so much. (in fact, a sidemounted thumbwheel jog control would be ideal, with a good cdev to tweak it)

[rambo47]

For the life of me I can't figure out why Apple has clung to the idea of a one button or no button mouse. (I know, I know, the pro optical mouse is one big button.) Not only is the entire world using at least two buttons, but the scroll wheel is absolutely addictive. Once you've used one, even on a (gasp!) pc, you wonder how you ever got along without one. Sure, there are keyboard solutions to scrolling and control-clicking, but the convenience of doing it with your mouse is one area that helps productivity and is just damn nice. Apple invented the things, for christsakes! This is a little thing, a tiny little thing, that makes a huge difference in user experience. If someone tells me Apple is leaving the market to third party solution companies like Logitech, whose cordless scroll wheel 2 button mouse I use, I'd say fine. I just don't see Apple leaving anything up to outsiders. Steve takes the "whole widget" thing pretty seriously and Apple never leaves a potential source of profit to others.

------------------

iDisk: rseijas
Homepage: homepage.mac.com/rseijas

[Cipher13]

Expect a 2 button mouse by the time OSX is shipping standard on Macs.


------------------


[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 04-14-2001).]