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Health Insurance REQUIRED BY LAW in Massachusetts (Page 2)
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mitchell_pgh
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Mar 6, 2007, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
So you are saying this new LAW is because they care for the people that are declaring bankruptcy? That's laughable.
You need to look at the bigger picture.

They DO care about the people declaring bankruptcy... NOT because it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling at night but because when people are unable to pay for medical treatment it hurts the person (by going bankrupt), the hospital (they are usually stuck with the bill) the insured people (someone must pay the hospital)... and thus the insurance companies.

Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
Did you ever think that it is because of the huge increase of costs of medical help/insurance that is contributing to this heightened bankruptcy rate and not the other way around?
Did you ever think that uninsured people, not paying for medical treatment, is driving up costs?

Hospitals are required to give medical treatment in emergency situations. I live in a large city, and our emergency rooms are FLOODED with NON-emergency patients. Many of the people are uninsured, so they have to go to the emergency room if they want treatment for something as basic as a broken toe.

If they had even the most basic insurance, they could simply call a screener and make a schedule to see a doctor.

What's even more critical is... preventative care. $50 worth of antibiotics and a $200 doctor visit could prevent thousands and thousands of dollars in hospital bills months down the road... or even death.

Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
ParaPundit: US Medical Spending Reaches 16% Of GDP
"Rising health care costs, already threatening many basic industries, now consume 16 percent of the nation's economic output"

"The health care increase of 7.9 percent in 2004 was almost three times the overall national inflation rate, which was 2.7 percent. The average hourly wage for workers in private companies was essentially unchanged that year, according to the U.S. Department of Labor."

"A prescription drug spending increase of 8.2% is seen as good news because it is the first non-double digit increase since 1994."

So the cost of medicine and medical help is raising multiple times faster than the national inflation rate... sounds like a problem to me.
That information could be interoperated in many different ways. We also have the largest older population in history receiving subsidized prescriptions.

Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
Don't give me "the doctors' insurance is getting expensive" crap, I see their huge houses (and vacation homes, and boats, etc.)... you can't tell me they aren't making any money because of lawsuits. And don't even start to think that the insurance companies are there to help you as an average joe; they are a business and their primary goal is to make money, not pay for claims. As if these new policies will even cover anything that would force bankruptcy .
Nice strawman... I never said the doctors' insurance is getting expensive, but it sounds like you are bitter that doctors make large sums of money. I guess they should just work for free... Many of them earn the money they make many times over.
     
torsoboy  (op)
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Mar 6, 2007, 06:26 PM
 
I am not bitter that the doctors make large salaries, I don't care what salary they make (and you don't know what salary I make). I just hate it when people say that doctors visits are so expensive because of the cost of the doctors' insurance when it's pretty obvious that they're not just scraping by on what they make on top of their insurance premiums.

This thread started out about mass forcing people to buy health insurance, and it's been quite a bit derailed now (some by me), but what it wraps down to (to me) is that if the government wants to force people to buy something like this or else charge them with a criminal offense they should provide the insurance themselves *at no mark-up*, people that genuinly cannot afford it should have the insurance paid for for them by the government, and the money that is spent on the insurance should be tax free. We have a very big military budget that we could draw from if this was actually a priority to the federal government instead of just some state's fly-by-night idea that accidently made it further than expected.

There are many reasons why it is a bad idea to *force* people to buy insurance. I agree with the post above that said they think it will be stricken down in the courts.
     
aristotles
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Mar 7, 2007, 02:20 AM
 
What's the big deal? In Canada you have to have Health Insurance too. Low income people either get it cheap or free from the government and people like me pay the full monthly premium.
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Aristotle
15" rMBP 2.7 Ghz ,16GB, 768GB SSD, 64GB iPhone 5 S⃣ 128GB iPad Air LTE
     
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Mar 7, 2007, 02:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
What's the big deal? In Canada you have to have Health Insurance too. Low income people either get it cheap or free from the government and people like me pay the full monthly premium.
NOTICE: this ain't Canada.

The problem is that they are forcing the poor to pay it. The middle class and wealthy aren't affected by this law. And to top it off, the poor get a HUGE financial penalty if they don't pay. More than the actual premiums.
     
jebjeb
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Mar 7, 2007, 05:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
jebjeb, my monthly pre-tax salary is ~$4000, my after-tax/insurance/deductions salary is ~$2800, of which my monthly family health insurance is $140. My employer picks up the rest of the ~$625 tab for insurance. 30% of my income goes to taxes and deductions. 3.5% of my income goes toward health insurance.
Thanks for the info. This doesn't sound too bad for you however it would certainly hurt a freelancer like myself as I would have to pay the full $625 a month, which even taking in to account the greater income as a freelancer compared to an employee, that is a lot of money!
     
FallN
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Mar 7, 2007, 07:48 AM
 
Wow, remind me not to move to MA. Just freakin' wow...

Forcing the poor to choose between food, rent and other basic necessities will put more people in the hospital than having "preventitive care" through this forced insurance can cure.

Can't wait to see a ton of poor people wheeled into hospitals on gurnies because they passed out from hunger since they have no food, forced to pay that monthly premium; dehydrated because they are dying of thrust since they don't have any money to buy liquids, forced to pay that monthly premium; heat stroke or hypothermia since they lost their apts since they can't afford to pay the rent and are left exposed on the streets, forced to pay that monthly premium.... Yeah, this is really going to help people... It'll wind up HURTING more people then it helps.

Bunch of f*cking morons in MA, I'll tell you that much.
     
mac1896
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Mar 8, 2007, 12:37 AM
 
Ahhh, yes. Good ol' "Taxachusetts, The Pay State".

The legislators there are choking the life out of the residents.

You pay:

1. An ANNUAL tax on your car, equal to two and a half per cent of it's CURRENT YEARLY BLUE BOOK value. This is paid to the city in which you reside, or your registration is suspended.

Three things complicate this even further:

A: Ma. salts the hell out of the roads in winter.

B: The Ma. Department of Motor Vehicles has its own Police force........

C: Due to heavy salting you get........heavy salt corrosion on car bodies (unless you've got a car with all plastic body parts), which after a few winters, creates fist-sized holes (ticketable) in your car.
The DMV Cops take immediate offense to this, and write you a ticket ordering you to have the hole repaired, or have your registration suspended.

You either SPEND to repair the body, or, possibly SPEND to get a different vehicle, preferably one with smaller holes.

If you get another vehicle worth more, you pay the above mentioned tax annually yada yada yada........

2: Property taxes (this one pissed off a lot of people).

About 25 or so years ago, MA voters approved "Proposition 2-1/2" which CAPPED PROPERTY TAXES at 2-1/2%. Everyone was happy with this for many years. MA then decided it needed yet more tax money, and tried to override P 2-1/2. It was voted down soundly by the taxpaying community.

MA legislators, in their devious way, found that the only way to get more tax money out of 2-1/2% was to say that all properties were worth a lot more than they had been originally assessed at (Well Hey ! 2-1/2% of $120,000 is a LOT more tax money than 2-1/2% of $75,000 ! Wow, we are so smart !)

Taxpayers are footing THAT bill now, too.....

3: In areas where pay rates are higher, the cost of living is also higher......Again, MA..

Auto insurance is SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER (Due mainly to auto body shops charging exorbitant rates for repairs in MA), food is higher, rents are higher, electric and natural gas are almost unaffordable, especially in winter.

4: Ma is NOT TAX FRIENDLY with big businesses. In fact, MA has TAXED BUSINESSES OUT OF THE STATE, which is why there has been, over the last 20 years, a mass exodus of businesses OUT of MA to the southern states.

Having chased off many of the highest taxpaying base (business), the difference is made up via various ridiculous fees throughout the state.

MA is not the only state to institute this type of behavior regarding taxes, but it was the FIRST state to ratify "No Taxation without Representation", and it violates it at every turn !

Now they want people, who are already taxed to the point of oppression, to pay out-of-pocket for health insurance.........



I've been out of MA for almost 15 years now.........and I'm better off for it.
Gee, I hope they're friendly..........
     
FallN
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Mar 8, 2007, 04:20 AM
 
You think you've got it rough with taxes in MA? Please. Come to NYC where we have the highest taxes in the nation! On top of the highest cost of living in the nation too. You try buying a house here? A run down rat and roach infested crackhouse with no roof on the outskirts of The Bronx with car fires raging outside the door and gun shots ringing from nearby rooftops will run you well over a million! Then the taxes. Bend over and prepare to get gang raped by the city and state-- lube not included.
     
 
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