[torsoboy]

I was given some money to buy a PDA for Christmas, and after looking at the different options from Palm and Dell I think I will go for the iPod Touch. With the app store and the wi-fi on it I think it will be able to handle everything I need for quite a while.

I don't have much music or videos so the 8GB version will do well enough for my needs.

I was going to buy one today through apple.com, but with Macworld only a week or two away I am thinking that maybe I should wait and see if there are any announcements or proce drops on the low model. What do you all think? Should I wait it out, or just get it now?

(I don't know if I will be able to handle no copy/paste though. It is so weird that you can't do that (from what I have heard anyway).)

[Cold Warrior]

If there were going to be significant announcements in January, Apple would have scheduled a press event already since they are not bothering with Macworld.

I'd get a refurbished model if they have them available. I got one and it looks brand new but cost less than a new one. Runs the latest version (2.x) and works great.

[torsoboy]

That's a good idea. I kinda like the free inscription offer through apple.com though. It would be nice to have my name/number inscribed on it.

[pcryan5]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I kinda like the free inscription offer through apple.com though. It would be nice to have my name/number inscribed on it.

I tend to sell my products with each new major version release.

FWIW - The inscription makes a re-sale much harder in my experience.

[0157988944]

Um... Apple IS bothering with Macworld... there will be a keynote, and updates and products will be announced. iPod touch is not likely to see an update, though.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

there will be a keynote, and updates and products will be announced.

I'm not privy to that info perhaps. Steve isn't keynoting and I've read nothing about any significant updates or products apart from perhaps an iMac sometime in January.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by pcryan5 

FWIW - The inscription makes a re-sale much harder in my experience.

Interesting. I don't really pay much attention to the back of my iPod.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by pcryan5 

I tend to sell my products with each new major version release.

FWIW - The inscription makes a re-sale much harder in my experience.

I don't usually buy anything with the resale value in mind. I buy things that appeal to me, and if someone wants to buy it after I am done with it, that is an unexpected bonus.

But (in all seriousness), the copy/paste thing... wtf is up with that? I know it has probably been discussed 100 million times, but as a soon to be new iPod user it is pretty baffling to hear that they don't support something as basic as that. And they haven't added it in the multiple upgrades that have been put out since it was created. I just don't get it.

So no one thinks that they will drop the 8GB version, and move the 16GB version to the same price after Macworld?

[pcryan5]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I don't usually buy anything with the resale value in mind. I buy things that appeal to me, and if someone wants to buy it after I am done with it, that is an unexpected bonus.

Admirably you have way better impulse control then I do. When it comes to Apple products I tend to reach for the newest and shiniest releases as they come out - something that leaves my poor wife

What's worse is I've been this way since the ][e - at least I skipped the Lisa

[0157988944]

I have never once wished that I had Copy/Paste functionality. Not saying some people don't, but where do you find that you need it?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

But (in all seriousness), the copy/paste thing... wtf is up with that? I know it has probably been discussed 100 million times, but as a soon to be new iPod user it is pretty baffling to hear that they don't support something as basic as that. And they haven't added it in the multiple upgrades that have been put out since it was created. I just don't get it.

There is no doubt at all that they have about forty different techniques sussed out in detail, with no technological barriers at all to their implementation.

What you may not be getting is that the truly hard part is building copy and paste functionality that DOESN'T SUCK.

It works well on other mobile platforms because the functionality embeds well into the overall layers of suck that comprise the interface and operating systems. It's a complex layer of abstraction that works for complex little fiddly bits that were built for office desktops and are now manipulated by an awful little fiddlestick.

These are conspicuously absent on the iPhone, and make it that much harder to add something so complex to an interface built around your index finger.

And before besson3c starts on about Android and whatnot: the criterion here is simple: If your grandmother doesn't get it, it sucks.

End of story.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

I have never once wished that I had Copy/Paste functionality. Not saying some people don't, but where do you find that you need it?

The reason that I will be getting the touch is to handle my schedule, and to do some work while not at my main computer. For my work I generally have to look up many of our customers' accounts to check on specific things that they ask about throughout the day... to do this I generally just copy/paste their names from emails I get into some lookup areas on our website, and it pulls them up. I know that typing their names isn't something impossible to do, but copy/pasting eliminates the need to ensure correct spellings, etc.

I also use copy/paste quite a bit when I am going to websites that are linked to in emails. And that is way easier than typing the whole 60 character urls.

Also when I am writing an email or a document and have to include something that I read in another document or email, it sucks to have to re-type it all by hand when I should be able to copy and paste it in.

Same for adding phone numbers and contact information... someone sends me an email with their contact info, I would rather copy/paste the phone numbers and addresses so that I don't have any room for human error.

Etc.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

There is no doubt at all that they have about forty different techniques sussed out in detail, with no technological barriers at all to their implementation.

What you may not be getting is that the truly hard part is building copy and paste functionality that DOESN'T SUCK.

It works well on other mobile platforms because the functionality embeds well into the overall layers of suck that comprise the interface and operating systems. It's a complex layer of abstraction that works for complex little fiddly bits that were built for office desktops and are now manipulated by an awful little fiddlestick.

These are conspicuously absent on the iPhone, and make it that much harder to add something so complex to an interface built around your index finger.

And before besson3c starts on about Android and whatnot: the criterion here is simple: If your grandmother doesn't get it, it sucks.

End of story.

I still don't get it. It's not a difficult thing (at least not in my imagination), and I have never once thought that *any* copy/paste functionality sucked. How could it suck? You highlight something, press a button/key/gesture/whatever to copy, and then do something similar to paste. I think my Grandma could understand it. It seems like they are holding out on it just because they can. And *that* sucks.

It doesn't need to copy images/files/etc, just a simple text copy would be nice.

Anyway, it's not a deal killer for me, it's just something that is very strange to not include (IMHO).

[torsoboy]

Hey, what do you know! There IS a rumor on a larger capacity iPhone/iTouch coming out (which would in turn lower the 8GB model).

http://www.slipperybrick.com/2008/12...g-at-macworld/

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I still don't get it. It's not a difficult thing (at least not in my imagination), and I have never once thought that *any* copy/paste functionality sucked. How could it suck? You highlight something,

how?

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

press a button/key/gesture/whatever to copy,

how?

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

and then do something similar to paste.

how?

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I think my Grandma could understand it.

That would depend *entirely* on the answers to those three questions.

You don't seem to understand that the important part of functionality isn't the function itself; it's making it simple enough for everybody to use. That's *by far* the hardest part, especially since if a feature is introduced botched or haphazardly cobbled together, it's almost impossible to change after the fact (unless you just don't care about alienating your users). Apple needs to get this right from the get-go.

In addition, there's a whole cross-application framework that needs to be implemented at the system level for any and every type of content that any user might think to want to copy and paste - implementing copy and paste only for a limited set of circumstances is confusing and broken by design.

Don't get me wrong: I think it's important functionality, but I think that the press-and-hold method of re-arranging the home screen(s) is pushing the envelope in terms of complexity, already.


And as far as my usage is concerned, it's MUCH more important to be able to send out adress book contacts as VCF via SMS than to copy and paste text - that's just my business context, though: YMMV.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You don't seem to understand that the important part of functionality isn't the function itself; it's making it simple enough for everybody to use. That's *by far* the hardest part, especially since if a feature is introduced botched or haphazardly cobbled together, it's almost impossible to change after the fact (unless you just don't care about alienating your users). Apple needs to get this right from the get-go.

It's interesting that you think not putting something in at all *isn't* alienating their users. Getting rid of basic functionality that has existed on OSs and applications for the past 20+ years is something I (and the majority of other users) consider to be pretty alienating (and very strange).

Getting it right from the get-go is long past overdue on this. I'm not sure why you are so defensive about this, but you have your opinion about it, and I have mine.

Anyway, the thread was created to see if anyone thought the price would drop on the 8gb iTouch, and since there is a rumor of a larger version coming out in the very near future, I think I will hold off for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

[Spheric Harlot]

You're really not getting what Apple is about, do you?

In a nutshell:

APPLE WOULD RATHER DO WITHOUT A FUNCTION THAN IMPLEMENT IT IN A DEFICIENT WAY.


Not that hard to get.

[0157988944]

I think a very simple solution to this would be to hold down at the beginning of the text you want to copy, when the little magnifier comes up, place your cursor wher you want and then put down a second finger. Now you can select the text you want, and when you take your finger off (or maybe tap again) it is copied to the clipboard. Go into an app to paste it, and do the same to paste (magnify, position cursor, drop second finger, it's pasted)

that sounds waay more complicated than it is... you're already doing the magnify and positioning anyway.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Hey, what do you know! There IS a rumor on a larger capacity iPhone/iTouch coming out (which would in turn lower the 8GB model).

http://www.slipperybrick.com/2008/12...g-at-macworld/

If they were to upgrade the capacity the 8 gig would be phased out leaving the 16 at the bottom. You'd see a stock shortage of them in stores before that happened though and there's been no such activity. Plus its been less than 4 months since the last update so I wouldn't bet on the rumors having any weight.
MW is too close not to wait to buy but history tells us that you wouldn't get a much better deal than the 8gig refurb price now even if there was a capacity update because that model would be pulled from the main storefront.