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TimmyDee51 · Dec 16, 2003, 06:49 PM

All these new games have gotten me thinking of upgrading my MDD dual 867's graphics card. Right now, I have the Radeon 9000 Pro, which works really well for the games I currently have -- JK II, Giants, Quake III, etc. But I've been thinking. . .

What about a Radeon 9700? The real nice thing about that card is the pixel and vertex shaders, which are really pretty cool. It would be nice to have those features as new games come out. A G5 would be nice, but for the most part, my G4 rig still has some legs to it. Except for the graphics card. Maybe.

What are your opinions on the Radeon 9000 versus the 9700? I may be processor limited on the 9700, but not for the shader bits, which is most important to me. Oh, and I also have a GameCube, so the usual "get a console" argument won't work. I like gaming on both.

bimmerphile · Dec 16, 2003, 09:38 PM

Radeon 9700 for mac?

Pales in comparison to the 9800 Pro.

Or, if you want, I can sell you my Radeon 9600 from my G5.

According to ATI, it will work as long as you have AGP 4X.

TimmyDee51 · Dec 16, 2003, 11:16 PM

Yeah, I looked into the 9800 Pro, but it doesn't have the ADC connecter I need (I don't want to drop another $100 on an adapter). Also, I may be mistaken, but I think they changed around the ADC power slot in the G5 so cards from the G5 won't work in G4s. Bummer. Otherwise I'd take you up on your offer or get the 9800.

bimmerphile · Dec 16, 2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by TimmyDee51:
Yeah, I looked into the 9800 Pro, but it doesn't have the ADC connecter I need (I don't want to drop another $100 on an adapter). Also, I may be mistaken, but I think they changed around the ADC power slot in the G5 so cards from the G5 won't work in G4s. Bummer. Otherwise I'd take you up on your offer or get the 9800.

I just sent ATI another email regarding this specific issue, as it was not clarified in the previous email. Hold tight, and I'll keep you posted.

sodamnregistered2 · Dec 17, 2003, 08:28 AM

IMHO, I would not mess with the video card. Just plan to get a G5 one day.

Just my opinion, I had a dual G4/800 and, while that was a GREAT mac, a dual G5 is gonna take you there.

TimmyDee51 · Dec 17, 2003, 12:23 PM

I'd really love to, but I just dropped a ton of money on my G4 last year and it will be a couple of years before I can buy another (grad school). Besides, a new graphics card is an order of magnitude cheaper than a new tower. That's why I'm looking to upgrade the card.

Cadaver · Dec 18, 2003, 11:40 AM

The video cards that are OEM'd for the G5s will not work in the G4 machines. They are AGP Pro cards and are slot keyed differently.

The retail 9800 will run in a G4 tower or G5 (though in the G5 it'll require running the power cable up to the optical bay).

For a dual G4, I'd suggest looking for a GeForce 4 Ti on ebay. That's probably the best card for the G4s. The 9800 Pro is a great card, but games will still be CPU-limited on the G4s.

If you do look for a GeForce 4 on eBay, make sure you get a real Apple OEM model, and not some scam artist's attempt at flashing a PC model. You can still buy them from Apple, but the cost nearly the price of a retail Radeon 9800.

The GF4 will support two displays, and has both ADC and DVI connectors (i.e., will drive two digital displays).

Oh, and I think I recall something funny about the short-lived OEM Radeon 9700... It would only work in certain models, but not in all of them. Not sure of the details, but you should be able to do a search....

Buck_Naked · Dec 18, 2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Cadaver:

If you do look for a GeForce 4 on eBay, make sure you get a real Apple OEM model.....

The GF4 will support two displays, and has both ADC and DVI connectors (i.e., will drive two digital displays).

I have seen retail GF4's at Fry's in the Bay area.
$299.00 if I recall correctly.

It's the card I have in my Dual800.

TimmyDee51 · Dec 18, 2003, 02:14 PM

Hmmm, I am thinking more about the GeForce now. How does it handle pixel and vertex shaders. Getting those shaders to work is the real kicker for me. My Radeon 9000 of course has support for older implementations of shaders, but they were never put into Mac games.

I guess the real question now is how does the GeForce4 Ti stand up to the Radeon 9000 Pro? IMG ran some tests comparing the two and the two are neck and neck until you get into really high resolutions. Granted, they are "older" games they run the tests on, but still. I can't help the nagging feeling that the GeForce is better than my 9000 but that the difference won't be as significant as the 9000 to the 9700. Can anybody back me up/shoot me down on this one?

Commodus · Dec 18, 2003, 06:37 PM

Personally, in a position like yours I would just hold out until I can justify getting a whole new system. The G5 stomps the G4 in gaming, even with the same video card (that includes the Radeon 9800 Pro).

TimmyDee51 · Dec 19, 2003, 10:14 AM

True, while the G5 may stomp my G4 at gaming, wouldn't a better graphics card help a decent amount? Especially at high resolutions, I'm thinking. Take a look at consoles. I realize they run at lower resolutions, but that's typically where the CPU limits framerates. The GameCube only has a 400 MHz processor, which isn't much, but a really good graphics engine (comparatively) that can pump out good graphics without a fast CPU. I'm not super concerned with framerates so long as they stay above 40 fps. I'm not an anal online gamer who "needs" well over 60 fps, I just enjoy playing good games with cool graphics.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would like a G5, but it's 10 times the cost of what I'm looking to spend on my upgrade. I can't afford that right now. I can afford a new graphics card. Would the 9700 be worth it or should I go for the GeForce4 Ti?

bimmerphile · Dec 19, 2003, 11:12 AM

TimmyDee: I don't know where you're going to pick up a 9700 to begin with, I have looked on eBayh, and a few mac stores, and I couldn't find it.

I have a retail 9800 Pro in my G5, so I can attest to it's excellent quality, but in the Dual 1.3 G4 (GigE G4 w/ Powerlogix 7457 upgrade), I had a GF4Ti, and was very impressed, to say the least.

That said, just because of my lack of knowledge of the 9700, I'd go with the GF4Ti, because I can recommend its quality.

TimmyDee51 · Dec 19, 2003, 12:03 PM

Thanks, bimmer, that helps. To answer your question, I am looking at some parts suppliers to see if I can buy the 9700 as a non-exchange replacement part. I heard one price from a place out in CA (DTT) and it was ridiculously high (over $600). They're really looking to screw you because I know that Apple sells the part to them for $349. Basically, if I can get the part for under $400, I'll be sitting pretty because the GeForce4 Ti card Apple sells as retail goes for $400. It's a long shot, but worth it. If I still can't get the price down, I'll look at the GeForce.

TimmyDee51 · Dec 19, 2003, 01:09 PM

OK, update time. I have a line on a new Radeon 9700 Pro for $425. If I decide to upgrade at all (I'm leaning towards yes, but I'm not 100%), I'll go for that. It's only $25 more than the GeForce4 and it's tons faster. I'll let you know where I get it from after I actually get it so I can confirm that it's doable.

a2daj · Dec 19, 2003, 03:26 PM

The OEM 9800 is keyed for AGP Pro, but the OEM 9600 is keyed for standard AGP slots. However, according to an ATI employee, the Apple specific cards are designed to run only on 8xAGP buses (read: G5 only) and the ADC power nub is in a different spot, so the OEM 9700 is pretty much the only highend option for those that need ADC but not willing to get the adapter to get those displays working with the 9800 Pros.

Venders still sell the GF4Ti for $400!?!?! And people complained about the 9800 Pro prices! I'm pretty sure I've heard of people getting the GF4Ti for a lot less than $400 (closer to $240?).

http://www.megamacs.com/v1/index.php...ew&pid=1388099

TimmyDee51 · Dec 19, 2003, 03:37 PM

Whoa! I missed that on the GeForce. I'll have to think about that some more.

rhogue islander · Dec 19, 2003, 05:48 PM

I have a Geforce4ti that I can offer you for $240 shipped. Please email me if you are interested.

TimmyDee51 · Jan 6, 2004, 05:54 PM

I took the leap today and ordered the 9700 Pro. I got it as a non-exchange part, so it cost a bit, but not much more than the retail 9800 ��_and it comes with dual digital and ADC support, which were the real deal makers for me. I'll let you know how it goes.