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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Own a Cube - Be warned: Lengthly Review!

Own a Cube - Be warned: Lengthly Review!
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piston
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Aug 16, 2000, 02:40 PM
 
Monday I picked up my G4 Cube from the local Apple dealer from which I order most of my hardware. They said I was the first one to get a G4 Cube from them� which made me feel proud

I�ll break this review down into four major sections: Design, Upgrades, Usability, Observations and a small section on a very special modification I made to my G4 Cube.

Design

The G4 Cube is small. Somewhere around eight inches deep and wide and a foot and change tall. I didn�t really realize just how small it was until I had it all set up and sitting near my G4 tower � it�s really amazing.

It�s also heavy! I was shocked at how heavy! I�m terrible at weight estimations (I�m sure the specs are in a TIL somewhere), but it was more than I�d expected. Most of the weight seems to come from these enormous heat sinks that line the walls of the �chimney� that runs up the center of the G4 Cube.

The enclosure, when set up with its keyboard, mouse and speakers, shows a very new era in design for Apple. Gone is any trace of loud youth or candy-ness that exists (to some degree) even with the current G4 Towers. These sensations have been replaced with an eclectic mix of cutting edge tech, Black and White Ball and modern New York soho art house. It�s truly amazing to behold a properly laid out desktop consisting of this new hardware.

The �computer core� is marvelous. Apple certainly squeezed every square inch they could out of that 8" cube. They also did many little things to say �go away� to invasive tech heads like myself � multiple sizes of hex screws, weird unlabeled cables with sockets plugging in all over the place. Officially, Apple only lets you, the owner, modify RAM, the airport card or the hard drive without violating your warranty.

The center of the computer core is, as many have said, very chimney like. One can see clear through the G4 Cube from top to bottom. The �chimney� is lined with heat syncs, which seems to account for most of the weight.

The power supply is a separate component that is a little more than 1.5x a VHS case. It�s a bit heavy too, and is much different in design than any of Apple�s other power bricks. It�s silver-colored brushed metal, ribbed. Sort of odd.

The speakers are very cool looking. They�re about the size of a softball, and come with these little plastic covers over the face that�s seen in most of Apple�s product photography. These covers have three large round holes cut into them making it somewhat confusing whether or not one should keep them on � that is until you a: hear them with the covers off and b: see the little slip of paper in the stack of documentation stating that the covers are for protection when transporting.

The new keyboard and mouse look just stellar � the mouse is an awesome design visually and the surface of the shell of the keyboard reflects a light rainbow of colors (sort of like cooking oil) when the right light hits it. They�re a great looking combo.

Upgrading the G4 Cube

My G4 Cube has received a memory upgrade and an Airport card. The memory upgrade was fairly easy, though the first DIMM slot is so darn close to one of the stress supports that the larger (chips on both sides) DIMM I used was a little difficult to get in.

The Airport card install was fun. The slot where you actually plug in the card is actually a little door that swings out.

There�s one more �upgrade� I performed which I�ll explain later.

Usability

Physically, there are a few things about the G4 Cube that may frustrate people.

The power of hot-pluggable FireWire and USB is all but lost with the G4 Cube � it�s basically impossible to plug anything into the machine with it on and sitting on your desk. The ports are on the bottom, and the space to get to the ports is just big enough for the cables to run through and air to get pulled into the �chimney�. Yes, you can tilt the G4 Cube to facilitate this but be warned: until you are a seasoned Cube-Wrangler you�ll almost certainly put your machine to sleep doing so� which brings me to the next point of potential frustration: The power � button?

The G4 Cube doesn�t have a power button. There�s an icon for power printed onto the plastic on the top of the case and brushing it lightly causes the machine to turn on. It�s very alien at first, but eventually one gets used to it. The downside is that it�s easy to accidentally tap the power and put the machine to sleep. This becomes especially apparent when you�re either a: checking how much heat is rising from the machine (which the G4 Cube just invites upon itself) or b: trying to tilt�n�plug as described above. Upside is the cool factor � it is cool.

The speakers are almost forcibly designed to be plugged into one of the new displays. Older displays won�t power the speakers from their built-in USB hubs � you can only plug them into the new monitors or the G4 Cube itself. Unfortunately, the USB cable is 2� long, meaning you�re in for some cable pains if your desk is of any size. Fortunately, USB extension cables seem to work fine (I used one from my yosemite, worked great). Serious design flaw, however.

The keyboard has no power button. Most people know this. It�s not a huge deal but definitely removal of something comforting in it�s familiarity.

The mouse is *almost* awesome� If you play first-person shooters you may be unable to use the mouse because of its inability to track twitch motions well. If you need a wheel or extra buttons, you�ll be disappointed. If you need to pick up the mouse while holding the button down, you�ll have to do some adapting to how you hold the thing.

I�ll expand on the last point for a moment because it caught me off-guard. The entire mouse surface is a button that clicks� the pivot point is about 70% back on the mouse, and pressing anywhere on the front half of the mouse is a click. When using the mouse, you�re essentially holding onto one enormous button (I�m just waiting for the heckling from the wintel users on that one).

I was Photoshopping, and went to pick up the mouse to move it over to gain more desk space for some lasso-work I was doing. When I picked up the mouse, my lasso tool let go, as though I�d released the mouse button. My brain just fried at this� As far as I knew (instinctually), since I am applying pressure on the front end of the mouse, I�m clicking� right? Wrong� see, since you�re holding the entire button surface, when you lift the button, you�re no longer pinching the bottom portion of the mouse between your hand and the desk and voi la! Release of button.

Apple facilitated this by placing to grips on the side of the mouse that can be used to keep the button down, but they�re a little too far forward on the mouse (in my opinion). It would have been better to make the gripable nubs full-fledged strips that ran along the sides of the mouse.

The last gripe on physical usability is the Apple Desktop Connector. The Apple Desktop Connector is a proprietary connector that carries video, USB and power across one cable, and is used for their new displays. Apple dropped built-in support for DVI (you know� the industry standard that all of their previous 15.1" graphite and cinema LCDs used) in lieu of this ADC technology. I appreciate their intentions with removing cable clutter, but it just doesn�t seem right to me that they don�t allow for people to use their older (hah!) expensive Cinema Displays and 15.1" Studio Displays on their new machines. I wrote a more intensive article on this for Go2Mac, read it at http://www.go2mac.com/displaynews.cfm?newsid=7063

Observations

- The G4 Cube is damn quiet� eerily so
- The light below the power logo is beautiful � it�s an off-blue color and it just sort of occurs on the surface of the gray plastic
- Apple did a few things to deter people from modifying the G4 Cube � such as hex screws *everywhere*
- It�s definitely really a NeXT Computer � the whole sensation of using it is almost identical to how a NeXT Cube felt back when they were the latest greatest thing
- It�s a little odd that Apple pumped the voice recognition thing with ViaVoice and voice-authentication and then released two products with no microphones (Cube and iBook) and stopped shipping the PlainTalk microphones standard with the PowerMacs.
- The ceramic circles (which are actually far beneath the clear plastic but embedded onto the gray plastic) creep me out � they remind me of the ears on those alien guys in that movie Enemy Mine
- The new keyboard gets better and better each time I use it

A Very Special Upgrade

I�m an Apple Cinema Display owner. My Cinema Display is of the DVI variety. I was very upset when I learned the G4 Cube only had ADC and VGA, and there was no announcement of an adapter.

I bought a G4 Cube anyway.

While looking at the computer core of the G4 Cube, I had a realization: I figured that I could probably get the Rage 128 Pro with DVI to fit in the G4 Cube.

Well, that�s exactly what I did. For the record, you absolutely *can* get an older AGP Rage 128 Pro into a G4 Cube and it�s not that difficult. The only real problem is fashioning yourself a replacement faceplate for the card so you can properly bolt it to the G4 Cube. Without one the card just sort of flops around dangerously batting against other components. I made mine using a knife, small scissors and a sheet of thin plastic that was the cover of a promotional notebook I received from Snap.com. So, I�m currently running a G4 Cube with a DVI Cinema Display attached, and damn it�s beautiful.

For the record: doing this voids your warranty and puts hair on your knuckles. I don�t recommend it. Try at your own risk.

If you have any specific information you�d like on the G4 Cube from an owner, feel free to email me at [email protected].

-- piston


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Aug 16, 2000, 03:28 PM
 
     
penum6ra
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Aug 16, 2000, 03:48 PM
 
It is indeed a bit of a hoist at 14lbs.
     
MacOS761
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Aug 16, 2000, 03:48 PM
 
Just two things - ADC is for Apple Display Connector (not Desktop), and I can hardly believe that replacing the graphics card voids your warranty! What's up with that?

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Herr Newton
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Aug 16, 2000, 04:16 PM
 
Originally posted by penum6ra:
It is indeed a bit of a hoist at 14lbs.
You're complaing about 14 pounds? That's quite a bit lighter than a full-fledged G4 tower and, as he said, it's probably all in heat sinks. At 14 pounds, though, and with a 15" LCD, it's almost a luggable.
     
Vision
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Aug 16, 2000, 04:26 PM
 
Thank you for the wonderful review. I can't wait to get one!!

One comment, though... your commented on the lack of a microphone port and it's irony with ViaVoice. Well, the Enhanced Version of ViaVoice comes with a USB microphone for all USB computers. I believe this will be a growing trend. So, just keep in mind that as a cube owner, you are not stuck without audio-in.
     
roders
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Aug 16, 2000, 04:30 PM
 
Ow my god, I think I've lost control of my bodily functions.
     
piston  (op)
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Aug 16, 2000, 04:33 PM
 
Cool! I didn't know that about the new ViaVoice. I'm more confused by Apple's actions, but whatever, they make the machines I love and with every single gripe there's been ten improvements that make me giggle senslessly.



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Laird Popkin
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Aug 16, 2000, 04:57 PM
 
Has anyone tried to use the new ATI Radeon card with the G4 Cube? Imagine one of those driving a Cinema Display...

Speaking of which, has anyone tried hacking together an DVI/ADC adaptor, allowing you to use a DVI video card to drive the new ADC displays, or for an ADC card to drive a DVI display?
     
Herr Newton
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Aug 16, 2000, 04:57 PM
 
BTW, I *think* that the ADC and the standard DVI connector are pin-for-pin compatible on the video signal. I know there's an extra four pins to one side of the ADC which carry power and USB, but the video is the same. If so, all one would need is a pass through of somesort that ignored the extra pins and just carried the DVI.
     
MacOS761
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:11 PM
 
Herr -
You may be right. If someone would post the pin layout and what each pin transfers (in the display owner's manual) we could compare - I have the DVI specs. Why wouldn't Apple mention this (oh yeah, to sell new displays )

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Kayano
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:27 PM
 
I have seen various photos of the internals of the cube, next to the 3 Ram slots, there is a white slot that looks like a PCI slot??? Is this a free slot that can be used for something like a TV tuner card??

     
piston  (op)
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:42 PM
 
Kayano:

What your seeing is actually the video card plugged into the AGP slot. The slot is built to handle video cards only (being AGP and all). On a G4 Cube, you only have a few expansion options. They are...

- RAM (up to three DIMMS at 512 meg each for a total of 1.5 gig)
- Hard drive (currently, the fastest shipping drive that will work is IBM's 75.0GB)
- Airport Card
- Anything USB
- Anything FireWire

And, if you're adventurous, certain video cards will work.

Hope that helps!

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CharlesS
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:46 PM
 
I notice a round port, to the right of the modem and above the VGA port, in the picture of the underside of the Cube.
http://mwny.macnn.com/cube/3.jpg

What is that? I don't believe I've seen that port before on a Mac. What does it do?
     
SteveX
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:50 PM
 
I have read somewhere recently that has got a third party to produce an adapter for the ADC - DVI issue :-)
     
krove
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Kayano:
I have seen various photos of the internals of the cube, next to the 3 Ram slots, there is a white slot that looks like a PCI slot??? Is this a free slot that can be used for something like a TV tuner card??

Take a look @ image #4, and you'll see that that white slot is actually the AGP slot for the graphics card.

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SteveX
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:54 PM
 
Can anyone tell me what the little widget in picture 11.jpg is
     
SteveX
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:55 PM
 
I have read somewhere recently that has got a third party to produce an adapter for the ADC - DVI issue :-)
     
krove
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Aug 16, 2000, 05:57 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
I notice a round port, to the right of the modem and above the VGA port, in the picture of the underside of the Cube.
http://mwny.macnn.com/cube/3.jpg

What is that? I don't believe I've seen that port before on a Mac. What does it do?
That's probably the power...

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PFunk Mort
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Aug 16, 2000, 06:01 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
I notice a round port, to the right of the modem and above the VGA port, in the picture of the underside of the Cube.
http://mwny.macnn.com/cube/3.jpg

What is that? I don't believe I've seen that port before on a Mac. What does it do?
I believe that's the sound connector. The new cube doesn't house the sound card inside the block. Instead, to conserve space inside and add to the general fung shui of the cube, they ship it with the necessary equipement housed in another casing (see image 11). If that's not what it is, then I don't know...maybe it's the doorway to the magical land of Narnia.
     
piston  (op)
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Aug 16, 2000, 06:09 PM
 
The round port on the bottom is for the power.

Sound is 100% USB. There is no built in audio jack on the G4 Cube. ;-]
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mac freak
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Aug 16, 2000, 07:39 PM
 
Well, looks like there's no audio-in. Does this mean I'm going to have to buy a USB microphone if I ever get a cube? I have so many of those external beige microphone port ones from old Macs... still work just fine with iMacs...
Be happy.
     
Billium
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Aug 16, 2000, 08:22 PM
 
Is that 17" ADC display a normal shipping unit? I guess it would have to be, but the area just behind the front bezel, where it's solid-colored for about 6" back, is silver in these pics and black on Apple's website. I sorta like black better.

I've already ordered mine but it's backordered 'till about the 30th. Cube arrives tomorrow, though! (Well, maybe Friday.) Yipee!!.
     
rmichaud
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Aug 16, 2000, 09:14 PM
 


I ordered mine on the 6th of August and am still waiting for it! I know...I know...but I gotta have it! I even went over to CompUSA (uggh!) to see if they had one - all I saw were the new iMacs with the cool mice and keyboards.
     
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Aug 16, 2000, 09:24 PM
 
The port in pic 11 is for headphones. It's clear as day -- the headphone icon and all.

Audio IN would be USB only but audio OUT is handled by that jack.
     
PCTek
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Aug 16, 2000, 10:37 PM
 
So many people complain about no sound input, But how many people *really* use audio input?

I'm not bitching or complaining, I have a real question. What do you use audio-input for? from a stereo?
     
Billium
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Aug 16, 2000, 10:49 PM
 
D'OH!

I just noticed the pics above are linked to MacNN's MWNY coverage, so that monitor was on display at the show. That makes it likely that the black-trimmed model shown on the website for the last month is the right one.

Woohoo! I ike the silver OK, but it get monotonous with everything else.
     
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Aug 16, 2000, 11:04 PM
 
I use audio-in all the time to digitize my old records and tapes and burn CDs of them (most of them are old recordings that never became available on CD), and make mp3s of them.

For some reason, Apple always seems that they have to throw in something incredibly annoying (like the removal of the audio-in jack, or a totally weird video-connector) in with an otherwise wonderful product. How much could it possibly cost per unit simply include these useful items. I bet the audio-input jack and all supporting equipment to support it would have been something like $1.00 per unit or less. Oh well, gripe gripe gripe ;-)

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bradvan
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Aug 16, 2000, 11:32 PM
 
MacOS761, the pin layout for the ADC can be found in a pdf at the following link:
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/...PowerMacG4.pdf

Try page 52.
     
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Aug 16, 2000, 11:48 PM
 
Apple should make a digital audio USB mic. so people can voice-auth. into their mac, talk voice commands to their computer, etc.
     
ChattyBob
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Aug 17, 2000, 12:35 AM
 
Is it possible to connect TWO monitors? I need the 'real estate'!
     
CharlesS
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Aug 17, 2000, 02:32 AM
 
If you want audio in, get a G4 minitower instead. It:

1. Is less expensive than the cube(at least the 400 mhz version is)
2. Has audio in
3. Has a fan
4. Has PCI
5. Has room to swap the AGP card
6. Has room for extra internal hard drives and/or an ATAPI Zip
7. Has ports you can access without lifting the machine
8. Some models have dual processors

The cube... um............... well, it's small. It saves desk space. It looks cool. And it's quiet. Is that really worth the extra price and lack of expansion though?
     
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Aug 17, 2000, 05:00 AM
 
With regards to sound in and out, Apple's official line is that everything going digital. In fact, they say this is the first computer ever without analog ports. That said, there is a standard VGA port built in, along with the ADC port, so I bet two monitors is doable. Also, Apple has announced that there will be DVI to ADC converters available from third parties.
     
mytdave
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Aug 17, 2000, 05:01 AM
 
I'm *VERY* disappointed in Apple with that ADC connector. Very foolish. The industry standard is DVI... Hasn't Apple learned that it is not successful with proprietary? Remember the PM 6100 video connector? Same type of crap. Damn adapters up the wazoo...

If I ever buy a G4 Cube, the first thing that's coming out is that stupid video card, replaced (hopefully) with an AGP Voodoo 5 w/DVI.

'Course that means I'll never be able to buy a matching Cinema Display because it only has that damn ADC connector... Apple, in your selfish quest to force connectivity with only Apple supplied products, you just lost $4000.00! Stupid.
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Aug 17, 2000, 05:39 AM
 
Dear Chaps, The new key boards do have a power button. When there is no disc in the dvd the eject button is the power button
     
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Aug 17, 2000, 05:51 AM
 
Hi

I am a sys admin and I have 3 mac labs. 1 with G3s and 2 with G4s. Now both computers are stated as having a "heat problem" and have numerous freezes (as quoted in Mac Addict), I am curious to know if anyone has seen a similar problem with the cube...also, is it very expandable? Do they still only have external, terrible, floppy solutions?

Thanks
Jennifer
     
Elderloc
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Aug 17, 2000, 05:53 AM
 
DVI TO VGA

As dumb as that sounds the latest crop of IBM 300PL's and Intellistations we set out at my place of work came stock with DVI video cards.

IBM shipped a converter with them DVI to VGA. So I guess apple is not the only ones that would have you use a vga to ADC or DVI connector...

Elderloc

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Aug 17, 2000, 06:14 AM
 
How much noise does the hard drive make ? I mean, my iMac DV SE was supposed to be silent - it's quiet, but not silent. I can hear the whirr of the hard drive, and scratching as it writes to disk - is this evident on the Cube, of have Apple used a quieter mechanism ??
     
Misha
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Aug 17, 2000, 06:59 AM
 
Originally posted by Billium:
D'OH!

I just noticed the pics above are linked to MacNN's MWNY coverage, so that monitor was on display at the show. That makes it likely that the black-trimmed model shown on the website for the last month is the right one.

Woohoo! I ike the silver OK, but it get monotonous with everything else.

Actually, those pics are of the actual shipping product... we're simply using the mwny.macnn.com server to host the images.

     
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Aug 17, 2000, 08:01 AM
 
BTW:

"When you look at a G4 Cube system, you'll notice that it has round circles on its sides. These round circles are the antennas for the AirPort wireless networking system. They line up with AirPort circuitry on the core to create a complete AirPort system, ready to use as soon as an AirPort Card is added.

The advanced ceramic patch technology used for these antennas eliminates the need for the wire antenna traditionally located near the external wall of wireless-ready computers. A wire antenna would have required a connection wire between the antenna on the shell and the AirPort circuitry in the core, tying the two parts of the computer together and making it more difficult to remove the core. Patch antennas provide a perfect solution for the G4 Cube, simultaneously making it AirPort-ready, beautiful, and easy to use."

(Source: Apple Learn and Earn)
     
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Aug 17, 2000, 08:35 AM
 
Even though the cubes built in video card has both ADC and VGA ports, multiple displays are not possible. These ATI cards that are currently shipping are the same ones that were shipping in G4's but with an ADC connector instead of a DVI connector. Remember those cards too had an additional VGA port, both could drive only one monitor at a time. You need a second card to drive a second monitor with those ATI cards. I dont know what the Radeon can do but the whole blow with Jobs and ATI killed the Radeon for now.
     
mopaman
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Aug 17, 2000, 09:57 AM
 
I believe the composite power, USB, video cable for monitors will become a standard. Sony also has a LCD monitor with a single cable leading to it. The advantages are obvious: less clutter, the ability to place USB ports on the monitor itself and thus USB speakers and microphones may also become part of the monitor casing if needed. An adaptor of some sort will be needed until this standard becomes widely used.
     
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Aug 17, 2000, 10:56 AM
 
By the way... Those aren't hex or allen screws that Apple has put 'everywhere' in the Cube. They are torx screws. Hex/Allen wrench will not work properly if you're thinking of taking any of them out.
     
NuVector
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Aug 17, 2000, 11:06 AM
 
I believe that's the sound connector. The new cube doesn't house the sound card inside the block. Instead, to conserve space inside and add to the general fung shui of the cube, they ship it with the necessary equipement housed in another casing (see image 11). If that's not what it is, then I don't know...maybe it's the doorway to the magical land of Narnia.
That is the connector for the cube's power supply brick.

Can anyone tell me what the little widget in picture 11.jpg is
That is the amplifier for the USB speakers.
     
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Aug 17, 2000, 12:04 PM
 
What I'm wondering is, if you are in Seattle, why oh why does the Cube have a Hong Kong Telecom 'approved' sticker inside?
I'm in HongKong and am used to seeing this, but why is this on overseas models too? Where are the Cubes manufactured? If in China, then this might be the reason....but otherwise I'm at a loss.

Suggestions?
     
jnehring1
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Aug 17, 2000, 01:21 PM
 
I saw the poster pullout in Time Magazine and was tempted to pin it to the wall at a very, very large software corporation where I work.

The power non-button was immediately intuitive, but I right away I thought, That will be easy to hit by accident. I'd have put it under a little lip.

My main reasons for NOT getting one (tho' I'd love to) are 1) I have two monitors on my beige G3 - both CRTs and that has been the biggest productivity enhancement I've ever made. 2) The G3 handles most everything I do (my G4/500 at work boots up 2x faster).
     
Nagromme
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Aug 17, 2000, 02:12 PM
 
I use audio-in all the time: I run the sound from my stereo into my Mac so I can hear music AND my Mac together (especially for games). Both sound sources then come out of my speakers together. If I had a Cube I'd be in trouble--my stereo is not USB. I'd have to get some kind of audio mixing hardware.
     
Wahsapa
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Aug 17, 2000, 03:04 PM
 
The eject button does not turn it off, it does not bring up a window to turn it off, or turn it on.
     
jaguarandi
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: northern california
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Aug 17, 2000, 07:06 PM
 
Originally posted by piston:
Kayano:

What your seeing is actually the video card plugged into the AGP slot. The slot is built to handle video cards only (being AGP and all). On a G4 Cube, you only have a few expansion options. They are...

- RAM (up to three DIMMS at 512 meg each for a total of 1.5 gig)
- Hard drive (currently, the fastest shipping drive that will work is IBM's 75.0GB)
- Airport Card
- Anything USB
- Anything FireWire

And, if you're adventurous, certain video cards will work.

Hope that helps!


Is there any reason Maxtor's DiamondMax 80 wouldn't work (besides the fact that the 100 MB/s would be downgraded to 66?

/jaguarandi
     
Evangellydonut
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pasadena
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Aug 17, 2000, 07:24 PM
 
ALL ATA harddrives will work. IDE interface on the mobo is backwards compatible while the IDE interface on the HDs are also backwards compatible. So if IDE still exist 5 years from now, you can use the new drives then on the Cube...

mytdave:
V5 definitely WILL NOT work with the Cube. First, 3Dfx do not and doesn't look like they will release an AGP version of V5. 2nd, it doesn't do DVD decoding. Both will only happen IF they get an OEM deal with Apple, which is not likely. 3rd and most important, the card is WAY too big for the cube. 3Dfx has made it clear that it will not try to get it to fit in the Cube. They may try with V4, if they decide to go AGP.

Another note...currently, digital audio isn't up-to-par with analog, and probably will stay that way for a bit.
Also, Viavoice requires audio-in...which is why the 2.0 version came with an USB adaptor...Also, PCI TV cards require audio-in, to connect to the audio-stream of your Gx. 'course since there is no PCI slot on the Cube, this problem doesn't really apply...
G4/450, T-bird 1.05GHz, iBook 500, iBook 233...4 different machines, 4 different OSes...(9, 2k, X.1, YDL2.2 respectively) PiA to maintain...
     
 
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