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Repeal of Obamacare (Page 12)
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Chongo
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Jun 27, 2017, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
15 million for the senate version.
According my unnamed anonymous source, most of those are people who were forced to buy insurance under the individual mandate.

Having insurance≠health care.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/s...obamacare.html
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The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 10:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
How does this bill solve that problem?
...
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 27, 2017, 11:11 AM
 
For those not trusting Faux News or Lamestream media spin, read it for yourselves:
https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/me...HEALTHCARE.pdf
     
subego
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Jun 27, 2017, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
For those not trusting Faux News or Lamestream media spin, read it for yourselves:
https://www.budget.senate.gov/imo/me...HEALTHCARE.pdf
     
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Jun 27, 2017, 11:51 AM
 
^excellent

No wonder bills take up eleventy billion pages, with margins like that. Horrible readability! Sad.
     
Chongo
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Jun 27, 2017, 12:05 PM
 
The current bills are ≈ 150 pages, far less the Obamacare bills >1000 pages

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Don't know. Perhaps the best thing is to do nothing and let Obamacare collapse on its own. Then you can start the cry for single payer. You have no worry at this moment. There is enough GOP Senators opposing the bill it won't get to the floor for debate.
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The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 12:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
The current bills are ≈ 150 pages, far less the Obamacare bills >1000 pages



Don't know. Perhaps the best thing is to do nothing and let Obamacare collapse on its own. Then you can start the cry for single payer. You have no worry at this moment. There is enough GOP Senators opposing the bill it won't get to the floor for debate.
lol

Here's a crazy thought. Try crafting a bill that's primary focus is fixing the ACA rather than cutting taxes and entitlement spending.

Letting the ACA collapse while you're in power is a bold strategy. Doubly so given this administration has been speeding it along by fighting paying its obligations. You can't blame Obama when you had your chance to repeal and replace and it sucked so bad it failed.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 12:46 PM
 
Btw, one of the reasons this bill is shorter is it just refers to sections of the ACA it uses without quoting them verbatim. Ignoring the shorter = better is fallacy.
     
Chongo
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Jun 27, 2017, 01:01 PM
 
Here is a crazier idea: have the CBO score Obamacare as of today and compare that to whatever comes out congress so we have a reference point to determine if it is realy better or worse.
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andi*pandi
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Jun 27, 2017, 01:28 PM
 
You don't think obamacare has been scrutinized or discussed enough already? At this point, anyone working on the replacement should be able to quote it verbatim and know what they are changing.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Here is a crazier idea: have the CBO score Obamacare as of today and compare that to whatever comes out congress so we have a reference point to determine if it is realy better or worse.
I am 100% for this idea. Plus a full repeal.

Edit: However this assumes that the CBO is currently scoring against its old ACA estimates rather than current regulations ...which are the ACAs. Is there something I'm missing here?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 27, 2017, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
You don't think obamacare has been scrutinized or discussed enough already? At this point, anyone working on the replacement should be able to quote it verbatim and know what they are changing.
You use Wikipedia, can you quote it verbatim?
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andi*pandi
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Jun 27, 2017, 02:02 PM
 
My boss hasn't asked me to rewrite wikipedia. If they did, I'd be pretty sure to know it and know if what I was writing was an improvement.

Point is, the information is already out there. Dakar has a good question though.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 02:04 PM
 
Sounds like the vote might be delayed but I'd wait to see what comes of Trump meeting with senators this afternoon.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 02:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
My boss hasn't asked me to rewrite wikipedia. If they did, I'd be pretty sure to know it and know if what I was writing was an improvement.

Point is, the information is already out there. Dakar has a good question though.
If a Wikipedia entry links to another Wikipedia entry, rather than present the text, that makes the entry shorter but doesn't change the amount of content on the subject.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 27, 2017, 02:40 PM
 
Expecting a full ACA replacement in 6 months is absurd, even Repub leadership thought Hillary was going to handily win.
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The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 04:06 PM
 
The delay must be real. A bunch of GOP senators suddenly found their voice and are against the bill. I've seen this movie before, though
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 04:38 PM
 
Trump at senate GOP meeting (also there's press?)

Insert head exploding image here
     
reader50
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Jun 27, 2017, 07:19 PM
 
It's been delayed until after the July 4 recess. Activists are hoping Senators will feel pressure from constituents back home during their vacations.

Health care survives for the moment.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 27, 2017, 08:11 PM
 
If they hold town halls. Otherwise things might cool down enough for them to proceed.

Assuming the hold outs aren't posturing I don't see how they make a passable bill. The Paul wing want more killed and the moderates want more coverage. I believe that roughly four votes on each side.
     
Chongo
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Jun 27, 2017, 09:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
It's been delayed until after the July 4 recess. Activists are hoping Senators will feel pressure from constituents back home during their vacations.

Federally mandated purchase of health insurance survives for the moment.
Fixinated
As many have found out, having ACA insurance is no guarantee of receiving healthcare.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Jun 28, 2017, 01:11 AM
 
25 million lost their plans so that 22 million could get poor, overpriced coverage. Great deal that was.
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The Final Dakar
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Jun 28, 2017, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Fixinated
As many have found out, having ACA insurance is no guarantee of receiving healthcare.
It'd be nice if there were hard numbers for this. I know the effects have been across broad categories, but it's unclear what percentage of people have what are essentially unusable plans.

Of course it looks like congress is trading plans that are unusable thanks to high deductibles for plans that are unusable because the scope of coverage is so narrow.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 28, 2017, 10:05 AM
 
I should add, does anyone here believe that the current bills proposed adhere to Trumps campaign promises?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 28, 2017, 11:38 AM
 
26% support for senate bill
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 29, 2017, 06:42 PM
 
CBO says Senate bill cuts Medicaid 35% in 2036 even as older/costlier patients become higher share of beneficiaries
But hey, it's better than the ACA!
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 30, 2017, 09:19 AM
 
Trump who advocated simultaneous repeal and replace now advocating repeal now replace later. See conservative senators agreeing. Who knew healthcare could be this hard?
     
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Jul 1, 2017, 03:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I should add, does anyone here believe that the current bills proposed adhere to Trumps campaign promises?
no.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 1, 2017, 08:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
no.
I appreciate your weighing in. I guess who I'm curious to hear from is those Trump voters or supporters who want the ACA repealed.
     
Snow-i
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Jul 5, 2017, 01:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I appreciate your weighing in. I guess who I'm curious to hear from is those Trump voters or supporters who want the ACA repealed.
I want the ACA repealed. This bill does not do that.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 5, 2017, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I want the ACA repealed. This bill does not do that.
I was under the impression you were interested in improving the market not just a blanket repeal.
     
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Jul 5, 2017, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I was under the impression you were interested in improving the market not just a blanket repeal.
You are absolutely correct.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 5, 2017, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
no.
In retrospect I'm wondering if we weren't thinking of different Trump promises re: healthcare
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 14, 2017, 02:16 PM
 
Sounds like Murkowski has been bought off so this thing is much more live than previously anticipated
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 16, 2017, 07:11 PM
 
So, weird complication: McCain had eye surgery and is recuperating in Arizona for a week. McConnell had to (temporarily) pull the bill since they don't have the votes.

Also, there's some weird shenanigans going on with scoring the Cruz amendment but I'm hoping this delay means they have to eat that shit sandwich as it gives the CBO plenty of time to get that score out.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 16, 2017, 07:14 PM
 
Pence sure lies a lot for a Christian.


And people trying to repeal the ACA sure have to lie a lot about its replacement. Makes you think...
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 17, 2017, 11:06 PM
 
This just blew the hell up. My timeline is flooded. Two of the more conservative senators came out against the bill, effectively killing it. Just seeing the McConnell is going with a solo repeal vote to put everyone to the test.

This was an issue earlier today:
The Wisconsin Republican was stunned to read in The Washington Post that McConnell was privately arguing that major reforms to Medicaid were so far in the distance that they would never take effect. Johnson said Monday that he’d confirmed through conversations with other senators that McConnell had made the remarks, which he said now puts a procedural vote on the bill in “jeopardy.”

“The reported comments from Leader McConnell before last Thursday about ‘don’t worry about these Medicaid changes, they won’t take effect,’ that’s troubling to me. I have talked to senators that basically confirmed that. I’ll see what Leader McConnell says tomorrow,” Johnson said on Monday evening. “From my standpoint, it’s a pretty serious breach of trust, those comments. I’m just troubled by those comments.”
In all honesty I think he's playing both sides. He doesn't care what happens either way in the future, as long as it gets done.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 18, 2017, 09:25 AM
 
He's d a good nickname for the entire situation: the Obamacare Maru
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 18, 2017, 01:31 PM
 
Well that collapsed quickly
     
Chongo
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Jul 18, 2017, 07:18 PM
 
So much for blaming Trump. ObamaCare collapses on it's own. He can't be blamed for not fixing either.
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The Final Dakar
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Jul 18, 2017, 07:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
So much for blaming Trump. ObamaCare collapses on it's own. He can't be blamed for not fixing either.
     
Chongo
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Jul 18, 2017, 07:28 PM
 
Nice try. Not leading on repeal and replace can be blamed on Trump. Obamacare collapsing under its own weight is all on the Democrats.
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The Final Dakar
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Jul 18, 2017, 07:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Nice try. Not leading on repeal and replace can be blamed on Trump. Obamacare collapsing under its own weight is all on the Democrats.
I don't see any wiggle room in that tweet.

Regardless, would you say the GOP has done everything possible to fix the situation?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 19, 2017, 01:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I don't see any wiggle room in that tweet.

Regardless, would you say the GOP has done everything possible to fix the situation?
I'll take that as a no.

Anyway Trump talking up repeal and replace again. Says they shouldn't leave town til it's done. I'm sure he'll lead by example.
     
Chongo
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Jul 19, 2017, 02:07 PM
 
It's not their job to fix ObamaCare. They ran on repealing it, not fixing it. This is why there were Senators that said they would vote no. They want full repeal.

Yes, Trump needs to stay in DC.
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andi*pandi
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Jul 19, 2017, 02:42 PM
 
I don't know if that's specific enough... does he own a golf course in DC? I'd say he needs to stay in DC and off the golf course.

Repeal without replacement is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 19, 2017, 02:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It's not their job to fix ObamaCare.
This quote, in isolation is quite something. It's their job to govern. This is not an issue that only hurts Democrats.

They ran on repealing it, not fixing it. This is why there were Senators that said they would vote no. They want full repeal.
You think senators want a full repeal? Have you been paying attention? There's a group of hardliners on the right that want it and a roughly equal amount in the center that want to keep segments that are helping their constituents.

What's more important? Keeping the promise or not hurting your constituents?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 19, 2017, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I don't know if that's specific enough... does he own a golf course in DC? I'd say he needs to stay in DC and off the golf course.

Repeal without replacement is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
It's a bluff that the GOP can no longer pull. Democrats should take heed because they're going down the same path with this single payer bullshit.
     
besson3c  (op)
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Jul 19, 2017, 09:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
It's a bluff that the GOP can no longer pull. Democrats should take heed because they're going down the same path with this single payer bullshit.
I haven't been paying attention to the Democrats at all so pardon me if this is an ignorant question, but why is it bullshit? Isn't there a possibility that there is a significant population that is ready to be done with insurance plans? I have no idea if this population is big enough to make a difference, but what is wrong in stimulating it and pulling all possible ideas on the table? I'm kind of afraid that they are just going to patch up American health care rather blindly, give it a new name, and then we'll be back in the same place a few years later after these experiments fail.

There are ways health care can actually be fixed. It is nowhere near this big a problem in other countries (and I'm not thinking just of Canada).
     
The Final Dakar
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Jul 20, 2017, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
15 million for the senate version.
Straight repeal is 17 million. To give you context on how terrible the convoluted GOP bills are.
     
 
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