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The Russian Connection (Page 2)
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OreoCookie
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Feb 21, 2017, 12:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Admissible in a court of law. Comey is a cop.
I know that you were thinking in these terms, but different legal standards apply. The relevant legal proceedings would not be a court case, but everything ranging from an investigation from the Congressional Oversight Committees (and potentially others) up to and including impeachment hearings. The purpose is not to jail President Trump, but to check the executive branch and could lead to him being removed from office in the worst case.
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subego
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Feb 21, 2017, 06:39 AM
 
If Trump has done things bad enough to merit impeachment, there are players involved who merit landing in the pokey.

Comey overplays his hand, they get away.
     
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Feb 21, 2017, 09:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If Trump has done things bad enough to merit impeachment, there are players involved who merit landing in the pokey.
???
You doubted that the information obtained by one of the three-letter agencies could be useful, and I gave you examples where it is. I'm not sure why you saw that as me arguing for impeachment.
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subego
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Feb 21, 2017, 01:02 PM
 
I'm saying the information gets released too early, regardless of the intent (be it impeachment or a check on the executive), the rats on S.S. Trump scurry over the side and swim to safety rather than sinking with the ship.
     
Chongo
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Feb 21, 2017, 01:23 PM
 
Impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate. Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached, but not convicted by their respective Senates.
"The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church" Saint Tertullian, 197 AD
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 21, 2017, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm saying the information gets released too early, regardless of the intent (be it impeachment or a check on the executive), the rats on S.S. Trump scurry over the side and swim to safety rather than sinking with the ship.
I'm skeptical that Comey is trying to build a broad case that will implicate as many people as possible. Trump is the head that when cut-off the body dies - Pence has no philosophical connection to the possible Russian elements of the campaign.
     
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Feb 21, 2017, 01:55 PM
 
Perhaps this is wishful thinking on my part, but I would hope Comey bases that decision on the level of criminality involved.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Feb 21, 2017, 02:08 PM
 
I'll give you this - the silence after the Comey briefing implicates that it might be more grave then I see it. How, I have no idea.
     
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Feb 21, 2017, 05:24 PM
 
I don't know that I've ever seen footage of Pence speaking a single word. I can't think what his voice might sound like. If Trump were removed, how would people feel about Pence? Would there still be sufficient anger to go after him as well? Would he do bad enough things to sustain it?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Feb 21, 2017, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Impeachment by the House and conviction by the Senate. Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were impeached, but not convicted by their respective Senates.
Don't forget, the Repubs are going to impeach and convict a sitting president from their own party. In the regressive fantasyland that's the narrative.
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Feb 21, 2017, 10:42 PM
 
Its a bit like a movie. Trump is a villain and we want desperately to see him get his comeuppance before the end. We all know it would hurt him terribly if he got kicked out of office like the embarrassment he is. Sadly though I start to suspect he will pull a Bill Murray from Kingpin.
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Feb 21, 2017, 11:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Its a bit like a movie. Trump is a villain
Not the first time you've compared RL to movies, nor thought it was the same. Seek professional help.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 01:20 AM
 
Sessions met with Russian envoy twice last year, encounters he later did not disclose

Then-Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.) spoke twice last year with Russia’s ambassador to the United States, Justice Department officials said, encounters he did not disclose when asked about possible contacts between members of President Trump’s campaign and representatives of Moscow during Sessions’s confirmation hearing to become attorney general.
When Sessions spoke with Kislyak in July and September, the senator was a senior member of the influential Armed Services Committee as well as one of Trump’s top foreign policy advisers. Sessions played a prominent role supporting Trump on the stump after formally joining the campaign in February 2016.

At his Jan. 10 Judiciary Committee confirmation hearing, Sessions was asked by Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) what he would do if he learned of any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of the 2016 campaign.

“I’m not aware of any of those activities,” he responded. He added: “I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I did not have communications with the Russians.”

In January, Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) asked Sessions for answers to written questions. “Several of the President-elect’s nominees or senior advisers have Russian ties. Have you been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the Russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after election day?” Leahy wrote.

Sessions responded with one word: “No.”
Well this calls into question a few things.
     
subego
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Mar 2, 2017, 01:35 AM
 
Somewhere within the four minutes between me alluding to this in the Sessions' thread, and the post above, I decided "he's gonna skate".
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 01:54 AM
 
Considering he lied under oath, that should be infuriating.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 01:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Somewhere within the four minutes between me alluding to this in the Sessions' thread, and the post above, I decided "he's gonna skate".
The only thing that gives me hope: Someone pointed out that this is one way to get Sessions out of the way of an independent investigation.
     
subego
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Mar 2, 2017, 02:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Considering he lied under oath, that should be infuriating.
I feel like he left enough wiggle to make it impossible to show intent. This isn't going anywhere unless someone was wearing a wire.
     
OreoCookie
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Mar 2, 2017, 03:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I feel like he left enough wiggle to make it impossible to show intent. This isn't going anywhere unless someone was wearing a wire.
For a criminal conviction, you are right. But politically, I don't think you necessarily need the same burden of proof. The sad thing is that the GOP in Congress takes the attitude of “not looking for a connection because they are afraid they might find one”, in the hope that the Trump administration will last the full term of 4 years.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 09:30 AM
 
So here's an interesting coincidence: Carter Page who I believe is one of the 4 that is being investigated for Russian connections was brought in by Sessions chief of staff. That actually connects dots.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 09:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I feel like he left enough wiggle to make it impossible to show intent. This isn't going anywhere unless someone was wearing a wire.
I have no opinion on that yet, but its worth noting this shitstain was incensed by Clintons bj perjury
     
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Mar 2, 2017, 10:40 AM
 
Still looking forward to seeing Hillary's indictment, which is what all this is attempting to deflect away from.
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Mar 2, 2017, 12:18 PM
 
There's enough deflection in here it's like a reverse house of mirrors.
     
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Mar 2, 2017, 12:19 PM
 
^^ Indeed, it's how all this got started.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 02:05 PM
 
One of the Dems on the intelligence committee is complaining Comey is tight lipped in his briefings. Reporters speculating it could be because he's may impair an investigation same way he didn't tell WH about Flynn investigation.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 03:31 PM
 
Sessions spox claims one of his conversations with the Russ ambassador was a phone call, which you know what that means. Either very good or very bad news for him.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I feel like he left enough wiggle to make it impossible to show intent. This isn't going anywhere unless someone was wearing a wire.
Found the quote that seems damning.
I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I'm unable to comment on it.
That's a pretty flat denial.
     
subego
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Mar 2, 2017, 04:14 PM
 
He didn't talk to the Russians as a surrogate.

Though the phone call could interfere with that play.
     
subego
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Mar 2, 2017, 04:21 PM
 
Aaaand... recused.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He didn't talk to the Russians as a surrogate.

Though the phone call could interfere with that play.
The way that sentence is constructed I don't see it. Plus one of the meetings happened at the RNC.

I think he also released contradictory statements where he said he didn't communicate and then couldn't recall.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 04:52 PM
 
     
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He didn't talk to the Russians as a surrogate.

Though the phone call could interfere with that play.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nce-annotated/
QUESTION: Two questions if I may. One, you were already considering recusal before today, is that correct?

And secondly, when you answered Senator Franken's question, were you just not thinking of the meeting with the Russian ambassador, or did you not consider it relevant?

SESSIONS: I was taken aback a little bit about this brand new information, this allegation that a surrogate — and I had been called a surrogate for Donald Trump — had been meeting continuously with Russian officials, and that's what I — it struck me very hard, and that's what I focused my answer on. And in retrospect, I should have slowed down and said, “But I did meet one Russian official a couple of times, and that would be the ambassador.”
Sounds like he was stunned the press knew as much as they did. Naturally the gut reaction is to cover his ass. And if it wasn't him trying to cover his ass, he had to know admitting to Russian contact would have stalled his confirmation by at least a little while, at best.
     
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Mar 2, 2017, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
He didn't talk to the Russians as a surrogate.

Though the phone call could interfere with that play.
That's semantics and if that was Session's strategy to stick to the letter rather than the spirit, it is (predictably) backfiring now.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 07:37 PM
 
Two more Trump campaign officials met Russian envoy - USA Today | Reuters
The newspaper said J.D. Gordon, who was the Trump campaign's director of national security, and Carter Page, another member of the campaign's national security advisory committee, both said they met the ambassador.
There's Carter Page again.

     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 11:07 PM
 
Could be nothing, but prevents a plausible denial he was at the RNC in his capacity as a senator.
     
subego
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Mar 2, 2017, 11:13 PM
 
Generally I've been taking more of a devil's advocate stance on Sessions, but this is a legit opinion.

If he expensed the convention to the senate, people would rightfully call for his head on a platter. Is that even legal?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 2, 2017, 11:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Generally I've been taking more of a devil's advocate stance on Sessions, but this is a legit opinion.

If he expensed the convention to the senate, people would rightfully call for his head on a platter. Is that even legal?
If he wasn't a surrogate, I imagine yes?
     
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Mar 3, 2017, 12:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
If he wasn't a surrogate, I imagine yes?
Legally speaking, what is a surrogate anyway? To my knowledge there were never official positions as “surrogates” in Trump's campaign.
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The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 3, 2017, 12:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Generally I've been taking more of a devil's advocate stance on Sessions, but this is a legit opinion.

If he expensed the convention to the senate, people would rightfully call for his head on a platter. Is that even legal?
I imagine this is what you're saying:
     
subego
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Mar 3, 2017, 12:27 AM
 
Honestly, I was thinking more along the lines it's literally impossible for a politician to attend the convention without political purpose.
     
subego
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Mar 3, 2017, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Legally speaking, what is a surrogate anyway? To my knowledge there were never official positions as “surrogates” in Trump's campaign.
Not directly answering the question, but IIUC, Sessions had made some manner of formal declaration he was part of the Trump campaign before these communications occurred. I'm assuming there's some law where sitting members of congress need to do that.
     
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Mar 3, 2017, 02:01 AM
 
Since most of the time Dems aren't concerned w/ the rule of law, at least not with the letter of it, why are they spending all their capital trying to block Sessions? Trump could have picked someone more conservative and much less capable. It may have something to do with Sessions vowing to investigate/charge Hillary, I suppose. What an in-depth dredging of her and DNC would uncover could likely cripple the party for a generation and could, at least in part, tie in with Hillary's reluctance to challenge the vote counts right after the election (or at least for several days, until Jill Stein picked up the ball and ran with it first). Not to mention their shenanigans against Bernie, the collusion with debate officials, and of course Bill's clandestine meeting with Loretta Lynch.

I have a feeling they won't calm down until Trump gives them someone who won't sniff around too much.
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subego
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Mar 3, 2017, 03:12 PM
 
I'm thinking the idea is if Trump's AG has to resign in disgrace, it makes for a decent argument Trump isn't very good at his job.

I'd agree it's playing with fire, because he'd replace Sessions with a much bigger asshole.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 3, 2017, 07:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm thinking the idea is if Trump's AG has to resign in disgrace, it makes for a decent argument Trump isn't very good at his job.

I'd agree it's playing with fire, because he'd replace Sessions with a much bigger asshole.
Trump's job approval numbers already indicate that. It'd be pretty hard to make them worse in this atmosphere.

I know I lack imagination, so you'll have to give me an example of what a bigger asshole would do. Start witch hunts, I guess, because his moves so far aren't exactly middle of the road.
     
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Mar 3, 2017, 07:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Honestly, I was thinking more along the lines it's literally impossible for a politician to attend the convention without political purpose.
Right, which is why you probably shouldn't have that meeting at the RNC, unless it is in relation to the campaign.
     
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Mar 3, 2017, 07:10 PM
 
Dems taking this victory lap of gloating over Sessions is absurd, and they're burning themselves doing it. Apparently they can't remember four months ago.
     
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Mar 3, 2017, 07:23 PM
 
https://twitter.com/acosta/status/837791966792404992
Here's Kislyak at Trump's foreign policy speech in DC last April
     
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Mar 4, 2017, 01:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Right, which is why you probably shouldn't have that meeting at the RNC, unless it is in relation to the campaign.
I'm sure even Sessions would agree at this point.

What I'm saying is he was going to expense the trip to his campaign no matter what, for reasons completely unrelated to the meeting. That he did so provides no insight to what happened at the meeting.
     
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Mar 7, 2017, 06:12 PM
 
Some more shit I meant to add a while ago, plus new news that ties into it.

Former Trump adviser Carter Page also met with Russian envoy - POLITICO
When Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak traveled to the GOP convention last summer, he met with then Sen. Jeff Sessions, as well as with two other Trump campaign advisers, including oil industry consultant Carter Page.

Page, at the time an unpaid foreign policy adviser to Trump, engaged in a conversation with the ambassador at the same July 20 luncheon in Cleveland where Sessions, now attorney general, and Kislyak chatted, according to J.D. Gordon, a national security adviser to the Trump campaign who was also present at the lunch.
"Now, again, I'm telling you this as it's coming out, so you know. But if it's true, it's obviously extremely serious and if there is any evidence that anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign communicated with the Russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do?"

Sessions: "Senator Franken, I'm not aware of any of those activities.
This might be a lie.


But it gets better.
More Trump advisers disclose meeting with Russia's ambassador - CNNPolitics.com
Another national security adviser to the Trump campaign, J.D. Gordon, also disclosed Thursday that he had met with Kislyak, this time during the Republican National Convention in Cleveland in July. That meeting was first reported by USA Today.

Gordon told CNN that along with national security advisers Carter Page and Walid Phares, Gordon stressed to the Russian envoy that he would like to improve relations with Russia. Gordon added that at no time did any inappropriate chatter come up about colluding with the Russians to aid the Trump campaign.
Gordon had advocated for language in the GOP platform that the Ukrainians not be armed in their battle against pro-Russian separatists, an effort was ultimately successful.

But Gordon says he was simply advocating what Trump himself had expressed -- that he did not wish to see major war break out over the situation in Ukraine.
What we all knew back in July – that the change in the language in the GOP platform softening was a result of Trump.

But wait, there's more!
Trump campaign approved adviser's trip to Moscow - POLITICO
Donald Trump’s former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski approved foreign policy adviser Carter Page’s now-infamous trip to Moscow last summer on the condition that he would not be an official representative of the campaign, according to a former campaign adviser.

A few weeks before he traveled to Moscow to give a July 7 speech, Page asked J.D. Gordon, his supervisor on the campaign’s National Security Advisory Committee, for permission to make the trip, and Gordon strongly advised against it, Gordon, a retired Naval officer, told POLITICO.
And while Page has repeatedly denied wrongdoing in connection with his Moscow visit, it is now drawing increased scrutiny as a result of new disclosures about his contact two weeks later with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak at the Republican convention in Cleveland.
He went to Moscow two weeks before the convention, where he met the Russian ambassador. Coincidence? Sure, possibly.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Mar 7, 2017, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
https://twitter.com/acosta/status/837791966792404992
Here's Kislyak at Trump's foreign policy speech in DC last April
Did they meet? Did they not meet?

Looks like it's meet: Donald Trump Met Russian Ambassador During The Campaign, Despite Repeated Denials | The Huffington Post
A few minutes before he made those remarks, Mr. Trump met at a VIP reception with Russia’s ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak. Mr. Trump warmly greeted Mr. Kislyak and three other foreign ambassadors who came to the reception.
I don't recall if he's denied meeting him at this point.
     
 
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