Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Riddle Me This…

Riddle Me This… (Page 2)
Thread Tools
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 1, 2023, 11:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You could always drape a sandbag over the outrigger to add super stability at the cost of slightly higher push effort.
That’s my plan Z. I’m also thinking I can use a 2x4 instead of a 1x3 for the lower cross-member.
( Last edited by subego; Mar 1, 2023 at 12:12 PM. )
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 1, 2023, 02:42 PM
 
When my kid's high school did newsies, the set was somewhat precarious, so the stage piece with stairs and a balcony that got wheeled on required stagehands to lean against it casually like they were in the scene, not just holding it up.
     
ghporter  (op)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 10:48 AM
 
For basic theatrical flats, we always had longish legs behind the flat (unseen on stage) that were weighted with sandbags. “Longish” because behind the scenes real estate is limited, but the longer the leg, the less sandbag weight you need.

For an 8’ high flat, (from memory) we’d use 3’ long legs and pile the bags on the very end - which also made the ends more visible.

More advanced stages can support rigging to stabilize the tops of flats, but we only had light racks, so the weighted legs was pretty much all we had.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 06:14 PM
 
This would be soooo much easier if I could just build a regular flat, but the mobile, double-sided design makes it complicated. The part I’m most irritated about is I can’t make corner braces out of pressboard without them showing up as lumps under the fabric..
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 07:01 PM
 
Suggest using steel square tubing for the sides and top. As steel is stronger per-pound, you can get away with using very thin stock. 3/8 tubing should weigh much less than 2x3s. Keep the wood for the bottom and stabilizers.

This would help lower the center of mass. And reduce lumps.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 08:04 PM
 
How would you make the joins? Wouldn’t it need to be welded?

What lumber has going for it is low cost, and the fabric front can be stapled to it.

For my prototype, I used zinc angle braces. I’m sure there’s a better, more carpentry-like method, but at the least I know the wood will break before the join comes apart.
( Last edited by subego; Mar 2, 2023 at 08:23 PM. )
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 08:21 PM
 
Is this a one-time prop, or something they'll use for the next 20 years? If it's a one-time prop, the angle brackets should be fine. Fabric could be taped or clamped on. A long-term prop would benefit from welding and screwing on spring clips, for easy fabric changes.

A bit of crappy welding isn't hard if you have a wire-feed or stick welder sitting around. Not so easy if you don't have access to a welder. Though you could always ask at a school welding class, if someone will run the beads for practice.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
If it's a one-time prop, the angle brackets should be fine
What kind of failures are you imagining from extended use?

As for the ease of removing the fabric… let’s just say that making things easy is a very low priority for the school district.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 2, 2023, 10:55 PM
 
HØT G|_U3
to the rescue

(ban on all caps grrr)
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 01:19 PM
 
To attach the fabric?

Why the staple-hate?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What kind of failures are you imagining from extended use?
To expand a bit, my destructive testing indicated I have to pretty much intend to break it to break it. Like, say stepping on an outrigger and pushing the frame over, or grabbing the edges of the frame and twisting it by pushing one side while I pull the other. I wasn’t able to collapse the frame sideways. I mean, I’m sure I could, but it would take so much force I’d pitch myself over once it gave way.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 02:36 PM
 
Screwed corner brackets would work. What I was thinking of:
- Less neat. May catch on things.
- Munchkins may find a screwdriver and entertain themselves removing screws. Anything at all is entertaining when avoiding school work.
- Less resistant to abuse. Like the tests you tried, only with 3 teens on each side. Recall those old teen tests to stuff a phone booth. See how many could fit in.

In an adult setting (or one-time use) it wouldn't matter. And it might only be OCD talking - the urge to use the neater solution.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 03:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
To attach the fabric?

Why the staple-hate?
It was suggested to use lighter plastics or steel for the frame, if so staples wouldn't work... unless maybe you wrapped the fabric around it like a sleeve? Hmm.
     
ghporter  (op)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 03:13 PM
 
You can avoid the “lumps” issue by gluing pressboard spacers strategically on the frame members. Or, for that matter, just strips of corrugated cardboard the right thickness glued in place.

However, if you can tension the fabric, you may not need much in the way of corner support. The “skin” can do that job. But for the “belt and suspenders” approach, it only takes a square chunk of 2x4 nailed INSIDE each corner to pretty sturdily brace them. Think “bulky, chunky, wooden corner brace…”

Stapling the fabric on the frame works fine - staple it on the SIDES of the side and top frame members. This facilitates stapling two different pieces of fabric on the flat - even at different times.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 03:25 PM
 
Using wood corner braces is where I’d start to worry my lack of carpentry experience becomes an issue, specifically securing the joins. The angle brackets “just work” without thinking about it.
     
ghporter  (op)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 3, 2023, 10:49 PM
 
Using “L” angle brackets INSIDE the corners works too.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 4, 2023, 08:02 PM
 
That’s what I’m using!

I had a feeling I wasn’t communicating it properly.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 4, 2023, 09:37 PM
 
It sounds like you're sticking with all-wood. If so, suggest using double corner brackets. ie - inside corner, plus (outside or side) corner. A single bracket per corner has poor resistance to twisting or trapezoidal distortion.
     
ghporter  (op)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 5, 2023, 01:17 AM
 
Using double brackets is a great idea. The outside brackets can "hide in plain sight". Double stiffening of the corners will make the whole thing much more rigid.

You could use diagonal tensioning cables inside the flat, but those are a PITA to get right. They WILL do the job great, and once set, they can maintain the flat's frame square despite rough handling. But the PITA part includes plenty of time spent tweaking turnbuckles.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 5, 2023, 11:23 AM
 
I’ve got double up top, but can only do inside at the bottom or the bracket gets in the way of attaching the frame to the base. Plan is to use a t-strap for that join.

The minor irritant for the top bracket is the countersink is on the other side.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 5, 2023, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
It was suggested to use lighter plastics or steel for the frame, if so staples wouldn't work... unless maybe you wrapped the fabric around it like a sleeve? Hmm.
Ah! I got it!

The nice thing about the staples is removal and reattachment of the fabric is relatively easy.

ProTip: use a mini-pry bar for staple removal. I was about 3X faster than the schmuck with a staple remover.
     
BLAZE_MkIV
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Nashua NH, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 5, 2023, 02:21 PM
 
I thought staple removers were to avoid tearing paper?
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 5, 2023, 03:22 PM
 
No paper was damaged.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 10:47 AM
 
Deployed this yesterday. Did in fact catch a kid riding on it.

It didn’t end up quite as rigid as I hoped, but it’s not tippy, and even if it does start to tip, it’s light enough to be recoverable.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Deployed this yesterday. Did in fact catch a kid riding on it.
Thorough testing methods.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 02:08 PM
 
Test 2: a ramp
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
This isn’t a thread for stuff that goes in the “Questions you always wanted to ask” thread. I’m thinking of this more as a place for stuff that gets under people’s skins. Like my starting issue…

Why do so many people back into parking spots, regardless of traffic in the parking area, regardless of whether or not they can actually back their vehicle safely, and regardless of how their (often really poor) parking affects others?
I always figured people who do this want to be able to get out faster just in case something crazy went down.

OAW
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 03:49 PM
 
It’s easier to see oncoming traffic when you pull-out, if you back-in first. That’s pretty much the only reason to do it.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Online
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 05:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
It’s easier to see oncoming traffic when you pull-out, if you back-in first. That’s pretty much the only reason to do it.
This is the rationale everywhere on the planet — except in Texas, apparently.

And when you're about to back into a parking space, people around you are already alerted to your intentions — you've slowed down in traffic, have indicators flashing, etc.
     
reader50
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 23, 2023, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
I always figured people who do this want to be able to get out faster just in case something crazy went down.

OAW
Pro tip when robbing a bank: always back into the parking spot. Time is of the essence during the getaway stage.
     
Mac Guru
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 25, 2023, 10:09 PM
 
Re: Backing into a spot and ... way back in the parking lot, beyond most cars.

I drive a Ford F-450 with an 8 foot bed. I have a MUCH better field of view out the front of my truck than I do with my rear window and backup camera. Easier to back into a spot first and then be able to see who's around the front of my truck when I'm leaving than the other way around. As for parking WAY out from other cars? Same thing... I have dual rear wheels and I'm like 20+ feet long. I'm not going to fit well between the people who can't even park a Subaru correctly so it's easier to walk a little more.

(For those that wonder, I have a 14,400 lb fifth wheel that I tow and live in full time, so I need the truck)
     
christ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Gosport
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 29, 2023, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Why do so many people back into parking spots, regardless of traffic in the parking area, regardless of whether or not they can actually back their vehicle safely, and regardless of how their (often really poor) parking affects others?
I have a rear facing camera and sensors that make reversing much safer than driving forwards.
Chris. T.

"... in 6 months if WMD are found, I hope all clear-thinking people who opposed the war will say "You're right, we were wrong -- good job". Similarly, if after 6 months no WMD are found, people who supported the war should say the same thing -- and move to impeach Mr. Bush." - moki, 04/16/03
     
ghporter  (op)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 10:45 AM
 
My bigger issue with bringing this up was that drivers around where I live are a mix of really horrible and unobservant, with some “meh” drivers in the mix, and a few pretty good drivers.

The horrible ones seem to back their behemoth trucks (lifted, “wide stance” wheels, and never a bit of dust or mud on ‘em) into parking spaces that they don’t fit. But no problem for them; they just take up extra spaces, often angling the truck to do so. Oh, and if they go in and out of the space(s) several times, they usually don’t even notice that they might run into other vehicles in the process. And all of this is done with sensors and cameras.

Having had an opportunity to visit other areas, I’ve found that most drivers who back in actually do it safely and even pretty well. It’s just the idiots around here that screwed up my perception.

One feature my BMW X3 had that I miss is that you could have the side mirrors angle down to actually see the curb you were parking next to.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 11:00 AM
 
My last car had that, and while I liked it, now that it’s gone I can’t say I miss it all that much. The mirrors in their regular position give me enough info.

I do miss the parking sensors though. Especially in front since I’ve got the rear covered with a camera. Even with the camera, I’d still like the rear sensor. Then I could more easily focus on the curb in my side-view mirror.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 11:11 AM
 
My last car had parking sensors, and I always have to remind myself with the truck that it's not going to let me know before I punch a hole in someone else's parked car.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 11:27 AM
 
Yup, parking sensors are awesome and so are the tech cameras. Now a lot of cars will let you use the sensor cameras for bird’s-eye or forward-facing use as well.

My Ridgeline has this recall issue where the rear wire harness leaks and has now killed the backup camera. I know we all operated without backup cameras just fine before the last decade, but suddenly not having one is just brutal!!
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 11:44 AM
 
The rear windows on my van are too high to be of any use whatsoever. I’d be screwed without a camera.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 06:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
My last car had parking sensors, and I always have to remind myself with the truck that it's not going to let me know before I punch a hole in someone else's parked car.
I’ve had a similar but much worse issue where I have stuff in the back blocking my rear-view mirror, and my brain would look at it and go “I see no cars, so totally safe to change lanes”.

After a (thankfully) minor paint trade with someone, I started angling my mirror completely down when the rear window is blocked.

It stopped being an issue after that, and now I pretty much never bother with the rear-view, and just use my blind spot mirrors, which work great.
     
ghporter  (op)
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Mar 31, 2023, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The rear windows on my van are too high to be of any use whatsoever. I’d be screwed without a camera.
Same here. I need a (small) SUV because dogs don't fit so well in a Miata. Also, I am not going to ever let go of the "you live on the Gulf Coast, so be ready to bug out at a moment's notice". Hurricanes, ya know. Sure, I live in South Texas now, but it only takes one episode of "get to the shelters or get out" to cement that attitude. And I had two, Fredrick and Andrew.

So I gotta have that space. And that space comes with a rear window that just doesn't show anything closer than about 15 feet from the rear bumper.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:15 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,