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MrsLarry · Oct 13, 2009, 04:40 PM

I use Entourage at work, so when deciding on a mail app for home, I just figured to go with Entourage since I was so familiar.

I gave Mail a try recently, and feel like it doesn't have all the "oomph" I'm used to. File organizing etc. Can you convince me?

What do you use, and why?

jrafter · Oct 13, 2009, 06:14 PM

You may want to try Thunderbird 3.05b, available from Version Tracker.

besson3c · Oct 13, 2009, 07:28 PM

Or Postbox.

Andy8 · Oct 13, 2009, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Or Postbox.

+ 1

cgc · Oct 13, 2009, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Andy8

+ 1

-1

besson3c · Oct 13, 2009, 08:04 PM

cgc disapproves of Andy8's approving.

Andy8 · Oct 13, 2009, 08:19 PM

Poll: Mail or Entourage?

Was there supposed to be an actual poll?

Curiosity · Oct 14, 2009, 01:11 AM

I like Thunderbird.

besson3c · Oct 14, 2009, 01:58 AM

Have you Thunderbird users tried Postbox? It is based on the same code.

cgc · Oct 14, 2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

cgc disapproves of Andy8's approving.

Yeah. Postbox is the OmniWeb of email...

MrsLarry · Oct 14, 2009, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Andy8

Poll: Mail or Entourage?

Was there supposed to be an actual poll?

Nope. I left the poll part out, because I figured the "and why?" part of the discussion would get left out.

osiris · Oct 14, 2009, 03:16 PM

Mail. Though I've heard good things about Thunderbird.

MrsLarry · Oct 14, 2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

Nope. I left the poll part out, because I figured the "and why?" part of the discussion would get left out.

Anyone have an "and why"?? Features? Ease? Free-ness? Looks?

besson3c · Oct 14, 2009, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by cgc

Yeah. Postbox is the OmniWeb of email...

Before or after Omniweb became Webkit based?

Fix Mail so that I can use it, and I gladly will.

jbleisure · Oct 14, 2009, 05:15 PM

Video — Postbox

I'm having Mail woes. Postbox looks great. I wonder how stable it is?

besson3c · Oct 14, 2009, 05:30 PM

I've only found one bug with it, but it is definitely stable, just as Thunderbird 3 is.

jrafter · Oct 14, 2009, 07:28 PM

I've tried Postbox; my only objection was the $39.95 price tag.

imitchellg5 · Oct 14, 2009, 07:35 PM

I used to use Entourage in the Office 2004 days, but now I find that 2008 is a bit too cluttered and hogs performance. I use Mail instead.

TheoCryst · Oct 14, 2009, 08:16 PM

I use both -- Mail for IMAP (mostly Gmail), and Entourage for my Exchange server. I tried using Mail on Snow Leopard for my Exchange account, but it just felt a little lacking. Plus I like the single-app approach for my work account (but prefer separate apps for my personal stuff).

besson3c · Oct 14, 2009, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by jrafter

I've tried Postbox; my only objection was the $39.95 price tag.

It's $29.95 right now with a coupon you can easily Google for.

turtle777 · 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

What do you use, and why?

Main reasons [to use Apple Mail] for me:

* nice GUI
* tons of useful plugins (e.g. DockStar, Mail Act-On, Mail Tags...)
* file based (not a big database, like Entourage)
* integrates nicely with Spotlight, Address Book, Calendar, iChat

Edit: added clarification

-t

threestain · Oct 15, 2009, 04:45 AM

mail for me. works well despite 3 differing accounts with different options. Syncs like a dream with my iphone too...

cgc · Oct 15, 2009, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by turtle777

Main reasons for me:

* nice GUI
* tons of useful plugins (e.g. DockStar, Mail Act-On, Mail Tags...)
* file based (not a big database, like Entourage)
* integrates nicely with Spotlight, Address Book, Calendar, iChat

-t

Which mail program do you use turtle777?

What kind of spam filtering does PostBox have? Does SpamSieve work with it?

turtle777 · Oct 15, 2009, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by cgc

Which mail program do you use turtle777?

Apple Mail 4.1 (SL)

I've been using Apple Mail every since OS X came out. Haven't looked back to Entourage once.

-t

besson3c · Oct 15, 2009, 02:15 PM

turtle: do those plugins break in between Mail releases and ever cause stability problems?

turtle777 · Oct 15, 2009, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

turtle: do those plugins break in between Mail releases and ever cause stability problems?

Yes, they do break.

I haven't seen them causing instability, they either work or don't.
If they don't work, they don't affect the performance of Mail.

-t

cgc · Oct 15, 2009, 02:32 PM

I too use Apple Mail 4.1 (SL) and have found no compelling reason to migrate to Thunderbird, PostBox, Entourage, PowerMail, etc.

MrsLarry · Nov 13, 2009, 01:14 PM

Well, I gave Mail a fair try. I like the Exchange integration and the use of iCal, but it just seems like it's lacking features.

Attachments can only be inline? that seems silly.
Not a fan of the Sent storing options.

I'm back with Entourage until I can test out something else. Are the others (Thunderbird, PostBox, etc.) compatible with Exchange?

Doc HM · Nov 13, 2009, 04:07 PM

Tried Postbox but was massively disappointed. So much of it looked really good. Great handling of multiple mail accounts, strong filtering, pretty nice interface, but operationally it turned out to be really weak. Mail kept not being flagged up as unready, routed to different mailboxes etc and it was way to confusing to keep on top of which mail was going where amongst my five mail accounts.

Initially IMAP handling looked better than Mail but in use it turned out to be very wobbly. I lasted just over a week before switching back to mail.

I would sooner cut my own face off than use Entourage.

besson3c · Nov 13, 2009, 04:11 PM

Doc, could you please explain this part?

Mail kept not being flagged up as unready, routed to different mailboxes etc and it was way to confusing to keep on top of which mail was going where amongst my five mail accounts.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here...

Doc HM · Nov 13, 2009, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Doc, could you please explain this part?
I don't understand what you are trying to say here...

Well for a start I meant unread not unready, oops. but during my trial I ended up missing loads of mails that were not showing up as unread.

I found that mail that should have been in one folder ended up in others and other mail failed to show up in searches. when switching back to mail.app the missing mail was easily spotted.

I really wanted to love Postbox but I couldn't loose so many customer emails. Mail has plenty of problems but I never miss a customers email.

besson3c · Nov 13, 2009, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by Doc HM

Well for a start I meant unread not unready, oops. but during my trial I ended up missing loads of mails that were not showing up as unread.

I found that mail that should have been in one folder ended up in others and other mail failed to show up in searches. when switching back to mail.app the missing mail was easily spotted.

I really wanted to love Postbox but I couldn't loose so many customer emails. Mail has plenty of problems but I never miss a customers email.

Very odd... No rules or anything that might be causing that sort of behavior? Any other client accessing the mailbox simultaneously, perhaps updating IMAP flags?

I don't doubt that you had problems, it's just kind of funny how people's experiences vary so wildly with these sorts of things. Out of all the strengths and weaknesses of Postbox I would say that I feel the most confident and comfortable with its IMAP implementation. Obviously you would probably say the opposite

kennedy · Nov 28, 2009, 10:25 AM

I use Apple Mail. Because:
= it is file-based...
= + it handles HUGE numbers of emails without getting slow... I have hundreds of thousands of email messages collected over the years
= + having a giant database file with all that would be way risky... occasional corrupt emails only cause me to lose one email
= + Time Machine works much better with just a bunch of tiny files changing rather than one huge one that changes all the time
= it does quoting in replies properly... Thunderbird does... I soooo wish Outlook did as it is a pain to communicate with Outlook users
= I can copy web pages that I find interesting in Safari and paste them into an email and mail it to myself (or others) and it looks like the web page did
= it works great with Spotlight... which is key as email is my primary knowledge repository...
= it is very stable and not likely to go away... which is HUGE since I have chosen it as my knowledge repository... anything important to me I email to myself, with commentary, such that I can organize everything important into one place... my email folders

is not · Nov 28, 2009, 03:01 PM

I use Apple Mail.

lcalcote · Jan 29, 2010, 10:29 AM

I'm empathetic to other folks who are stuck with using Entourage for work. I'm in the same boat. I've been using Entourage for a couple years now and have written up solutions to issues I've encountered - entourage | Ginger Geek

I wish my IT folks would upgrade our MS Exchange environment to be compatible with Snow Leopard's native ability to interact with Exchange.

Heymbit · Jan 29, 2010, 01:15 PM

Mail FTW

TheoCryst · Jan 29, 2010, 08:02 PM

Well, this one's been revived, so I'll update: I've been using our internal Mac Outlook builds for a few months now, and loving it! So HA!

Cold Warrior · Jan 29, 2010, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by TheoCryst

Well, this one's been revived, so I'll update: I've been using our internal Mac Outlook builds for a few months now, and loving it! So HA!

I'm jealous. All I've ever wanted in an email client is a refined Outlook clone for OS X.

besson3c · 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by kennedy

= + it handles HUGE numbers of emails without getting slow... I have hundreds of thousands of email messages collected over the years

Not really. There may not be a relationship between the slowness and an increase in the size of mailboxes, but for me it is literally unusably slow due to its extremely poor IMAP implementation and insistence towards not having any concept of folder subscriptions and checking/syncing all folders in your mailbox hierarchy. Ever sit there and look at "synchronizing folders" for 23423498 years - folders that you have archived from years ago? The other problem with OS X Mail is that it insists on opening up several simultaneous connections, causing mail admins to tear out their hair in terms of the resources this app demands, and I believe breaking the IMAP RFC in the process. Mail admins are either forced to increase the number of simultaneous connections or just ban OS X Mail/iPod Touch/iPhone mail.

I agree with everything else, and in addition, Outlook's HTML markup creation is pretty dorky, as is all HTML markup with a MS logo attached to it.

I would say that OS X Mail is a wonderful client in terms of its interface, OS X feature support, integration with OS X, and GUI as a whole, but is actually has a horrendous IMAP implementation. To me the gold standard of IMAP implementation is Thunderbird and Pine. Many here will scoff at the virtues of either of these as an actual email client and I wouldn't disagree with many of these assertions, I'm referring specifically to the low level transactions that take place.

The iPhone/IPod Touch mail implementations seem to check for new messages in the folder you are in, which is an improvement, but I think if you are at the top level listing of mailboxes/folders it will rape the IMAP server the same way that OS X Mail does.

Edit: whopps... this was in response to something written last November

ghporter · Jan 30, 2010, 10:41 AM

I spent years in the corporate-oriented Outlook world, so I'm comfortable and experienced with that paradigm; I have been using Entourage for years because it is the closest thing I can get to Outlook, in spite of the shortcomings Entourage suffers from. I'd love to be able to use Outlook on a Mac because it does what I'm used to doing the way I'm used to doing it. This doesn't mean I would be against changing to something that did the same things but better, easier and quicker, just that my starting point would be that of "experienced Outlook user," instead of "Mac Mail user."

Mrs. Larry, use what you're comfortable with, and keep your eyes open for new products or new versions of existing products. I've been comparing and contrasting different mail clients for quite a while, and so far I haven't found one that would do everything I used to do with Outlook and still do with Entourage, without a lot of workflow or capability compromises. Still looking...