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BlankMac · Feb 2, 2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Ramza:
Yay! Interrogation time!
Okay, is the viewing angle really that atrocious...? I mean is it really noticable even at a slight angle?
Also how is the ghosting on this? I only do light gaming, but this still concerns me...
And is the color reproduction really as good as they say??

Thanks a load!
I might have more questions later but I gotta get to bed

The viewing angle is fine--I honestly don't see any sort of difference between this and other lcd's with 160+ in both directions...You would really have to be in some sort of uncomfortable position for it to be a factor...

There is no ghosting at all (as in halos, etc.) however, it's still an lcd -- so while it has fast enough pixel response to display full motion video, there is some flickering and blurring while dragging windows and such...I just tried out Jedi Outcast and it is quite playable (at least to my standards--I'm not a big gamer), but it won't compete with a crt in this respect...

Ahhh, but the color--the color is outstanding--I haven't calibrated it yet, but I like what I see so far...And lcd's are so much easier on my eyes...The monitor I received has no dead pixels and I can detect no "warm spots" or color variations...Hope that helps!!!

Ramza · Feb 2, 2003, 04:07 PM

Well! That puts me at ease with the viewing angle, but your ghosting comments were interesting...
Flickering and blurring while dragging windows? That sounds pretty bad......
It doesn't really sound like much of an improvement over the 172t besides the widescreen and better color reproduction...maybe better at ghosting as well.
BlankMac, what video card do you have?Are you using analogue or digital?

reverb · Feb 2, 2003, 04:30 PM

I went with the SyncMaster 172W--widescreen...It looks the same as yours, only its 1280x768 (16:9)

A note of clarification. That is not 1.78:1 (16:9), it is 1.66:1.

BlankMac · Feb 2, 2003, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by Ramza:
Well! That puts me at ease with the viewing angle, but your ghosting comments were interesting...
Flickering and blurring while dragging windows? That sounds pretty bad......
It doesn't really sound like much of an improvement over the 172t besides the widescreen and better color reproduction...maybe better at ghosting as well.
BlankMac, what video card do you have?Are you using analogue or digital?

I'm using a Radeon 8500 with the DVI output...As far as the blurring and whatnot--all lcds currently in production do it (even Apple's), but until they are able to make an lcd with a faster response time thats the trade off for all of its advantages over crt's...I don't know, but I would guess it's similar technology to the 172t (considering they have the same series number) Although the 172w is listed as having higher brightness...So really, I would try to find a 172t at a store and play w/it if I were you...

BlankMac · Feb 2, 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by reverb:
A note of clarification. That is not 1.78:1 (16:9), it is 1.66:1.

Hey whatever man, Samsung bills it as a 16:9 aspect ratio monitor in their literature...Off by 48 pixels is close enough for me...

Lizard7 · Feb 2, 2003, 11:47 PM

I finally took the plunge and picked up a 172T. The brightness and color reproduction of this lcd is impressive. Viewing angles are superb (not just in the specs). The case and build quality are excellent as well.

The only downside is that there is a bit of ghosting or "motion blur" in games (like there is with most lcds-- except maybe that Hitachi). Then again, my rage 128 can't really handle 3d games at 1280x1024 so the resolution scaling might make the ghosting worse. Still, games seem playable in my limited testing.

DVD playback looks great. If you can find one in stock, you can't go wrong with this monitor unless you are a hardcore gamer.

Eug · Feb 3, 2003, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Lizard7:
I finally took the plunge and picked up a 172T. The brightness and color reproduction of this lcd is impressive. Viewing angles are superb (not just in the specs). The case and build quality are excellent as well.

The only downside is that there is a bit of ghosting or "motion blur" in games (like there is with most lcds-- except maybe that Hitachi). Then again, my rage 128 can't really handle 3d games at 1280x1024 so the resolution scaling might make the ghosting worse. Still, games seem playable in my limited testing.

DVD playback looks great. If you can find one in stock, you can't go wrong with this monitor unless you are a hardcore gamer.

Yeah, the Hitachi is rated faster than the 172T. (Claimed 16 ms response time vs. Samsung's 25.) However, the Hitachi is also rated to have "only" pretty good image quality, whereas Samsung is at the top of the heap - outstanding.

hawiken · Feb 4, 2003, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by BlankMac:
Hey Ramza...yeah, I was a little leary about the view specs (especially considering that there was nowhere to go see it in person!), but taking a leap of faith turned out okay...There is color shift at extreme angles, but I am always seated directly in front of the monitor so it doesn't affect me...I still can't stress enough how bright it is though--I can watch a dvd from across the room and it's like I'm looking at a regular TV...Here's a photo for you--sorry the quality is marginal (I'm no photographer!!) If you've got any other questions, let me know and I'll do my best to answer them...

What kind of video card are you using? Did you have any trouble getting it to display in native resolution (I think that it's 1280 x 768)? Reason that I'm asking, I don't see that particular resolution in my 'Display' preference pane. I'm using a radeon 8500.
And I sure like that monitor!
Thanks,
Ken

icruise · Feb 4, 2003, 05:59 AM

The widescreen version looks very nice too. I was tempted by that when I got my 172T but I was a little put off by the fact that it had the same vertical resolution as my current 1024x768 screen, and also at the time it was only available for preorder here and also cost more than the 172T.

BlankMac · Feb 4, 2003, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by hawiken:
What kind of video card are you using? Did you have any trouble getting it to display in native resolution (I think that it's 1280 x 768)? Reason that I'm asking, I don't see that particular resolution in my 'Display' preference pane. I'm using a radeon 8500.
And I sure like that monitor!
Thanks,
Ken

Radeon 8500 in a DP 500...It will display the native resolution with both the analog and digital output...

slffl · Feb 5, 2003, 01:37 PM

Has anyone found the samsung 172T or even the 172W in-stock? Looks like everywhere is sold out and not expecting more for at least a month.

Eug · Feb 5, 2003, 06:28 PM

Where are you? In Toronto, if you just walk in to one of the local stores, it's always there. Has been for months. They sell tons of the 152T, 172T, and the 191T.

macgeekjay · Feb 5, 2003, 06:48 PM

Sorry guys....

THE BEST screen made is the 20" from Apple! It's Frickin' BRIGHT! IMHO it's the first LCD that can replace a CRT for photographers and designers alike.

See it in person! It puts the Samsung to shame (as well as the other Apple displays).

icruise · Feb 5, 2003, 07:30 PM

It's also more than twice as expensive -- it better be good.

Eug · Feb 5, 2003, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by macgeekjay:
Sorry guys....

THE BEST screen made is the 20" from Apple! It's Frickin' BRIGHT! IMHO it's the first LCD that can replace a CRT for photographers and designers alike.

See it in person! It puts the Samsung to shame (as well as the other Apple displays).

It puts which Samsung to shame? Also who makes the 20"? Somebody said Chi Mei. I know that Apple has deals with Samsung, LG/Philips, and Chi Mei. Dunno about anybody else.

slffl · Feb 6, 2003, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
Where are you? In Toronto, if you just walk in to one of the local stores, it's always there. Has been for months. They sell tons of the 152T, 172T, and the 191T.

I'm actually in Utah, but I was looking everywhere online. CompUSA, circuitcity, BestBuy, Amazon, Buy.com, everywhere.

Is the 172B the same thing as the 172T but different countries?

Eug · Feb 6, 2003, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by slffl:
I'm actually in Utah, but I was looking everywhere online. CompUSA, circuitcity, BestBuy, Amazon, Buy.com, everywhere.

Is the 172B the same thing as the 172T but different countries?

The 172B has no DVI, just VGA AFAIK. The 172T is DVI and VGA.

By the way, I saw these pix of the foldability at Samsung's site:

slffl · 07:33 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
The 172B has no DVI, just VGA AFAIK. The 172T is DVI and VGA.

Do you know if these are basically the same monitors in terms of quality except the DVI connection? I also noticed something about dual CPU's on the 172T specs. Does this mean you can have 2 computers hooked up and switch between the 2 like video inputs on a TV?

I'll be using the 12" Powerbook so I won't need DVI right off and the 172B is cheaper and instock.

EDIT: Is there a big difference in the 500:1 contrast ratio of the 172t compared to the 400:1 of the 172w?

Eug · Feb 6, 2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by slffl:
Do you know if these are basically the same monitors in terms of quality except the DVI connection? I also noticed something about dual CPU's on the 172T specs. Does this mean you can have 2 computers hooked up and switch between the 2 like video inputs on a TV?

I'll be using the 12" Powerbook so I won't need DVI right off and the 172B is cheaper and instock.

Dunno if they're exactly the same besides the inputs. I use the VGA with my XP box, and DVI with my TiBook. There is a switch for the source. When I plug in the TiBook and hit source, it always seems to find the TiBook. However, if I unplug the TiBook and hit source again sometimes it just goes back to DVI and says nothing is there. So I turn off and on the screen and it finds the XP box again. An annoyance, but a minor one.

EDIT: Is there a big difference in the 500:1 contrast ratio of the 172t compared to the 400:1 of the 172w?

No idea.

Mr. Blur · Feb 7, 2003, 01:59 AM

hey eug....where in t.o. did you get this for the $555us price? i'm thinking of replacing both my crt's and this ones high on my list....and i'll be in t.o later this month too.

Eug · Feb 7, 2003, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by Mr. Blur:
hey eug....where in t.o. did you get this for the $555us price? i'm thinking of replacing both my crt's and this ones high on my list....and i'll be in t.o later this month too.

On the College strip near Spadina, at Canada Computers. It was CAD$925.
(With the loonie now up against the US buck, that would now US$610.)

There are a bazillion other computer stores there too if you want to browse, including a big Mac store.

hawiken · Feb 7, 2003, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by slffl:
I'm actually in Utah, but I was looking everywhere online. CompUSA, circuitcity, BestBuy, Amazon, Buy.com, everywhere.

Is the 172B the same thing as the 172T but different countries?

try www.digitallyunique.net
or
http://shop.monitorsdirect.com
or
check pricewatch or anandtech
good luck,
ken

Ratspittle · Feb 7, 2003, 02:50 PM

Just ordered one of these last night from ecost.com at about 6pm EST, and received it this morning at 10.30 EST. I only paid $10 for overnight priority fed-ex. The monitor was just ubder $600 . The quality is outstanding, as seems the construction. WOW!!! and until my new tower comes next week I am running in analog.
BTW (sorry, off topic) is there any software out there to help me move the files and home directories over to the new mac, or do I have to drag it all over (and will it recognize the users from there?)
RS

Mr. Blur · Feb 7, 2003, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by Eug:
On the College strip near Spadina, at Canada Computers. It was CAD$925.
(With the loonie now up against the US buck, that would now US$610.)

There are a bazillion other computer stores there too if you want to browse, including a big Mac store.

thanks....while browsing the thread again i see you had already posted that info....i should have checked more closely before.

anyway....i decided to buy a pair of these. i checked around town here and ended up getting 'em for $920cdn each....they'll arrive next week...woohoo!

Eug · Feb 12, 2003, 04:11 PM

Comparison between the Samsung and the Hitachi CML174 17" LCD (16 ms) now up at AnandTech.

As expected, the Samsung is not as fast for gaming, but has better colours.

Most Apple people would be better off choosing the Samsung over the Hitachi. PC gamers may want the Hitachi.

Mr. Blur · Feb 20, 2003, 01:23 AM

well, after a brief shipping delay (and me being unable to go pick 'em up...) i got my pair of 172T's today. i've only had them on a couple hours and have not done any serious "testing" but my first impressions - extremely nice....and bright...like very very bright....first thing i did was crank the bright settings way down. not one dead or stuck pixel between the pair. i am not a gamer, and don't watch dvd's on my computer so i think i really made the right choice. i like the look of these (i got the black ones...i'm that kind of guy....) and i like being able to adjust the height and angle - that is what i didn't like about the apple models (as well as the large bezel/frame which i find too distracting when running 2 monitors side by side). great purchase for me....and oh, thanks eug for all your comments, links and info in this thread - gave me lots to to go on and really helped me make the decision.....

Wet Jimmy · Feb 22, 2003, 07:12 AM

Some more LCD reviews at Tom's Hardware -

Fight!

Eug · Feb 23, 2003, 12:18 PM

Some more LCD reviews at Tom's Hardware -

Fight!

That review doesn't really say much, and it doesn't review the 172T either. I like the AnandTech monitor reviews better.

As for gaming, I've recently purchased a Radeon 9100 (a bit faster than the 9000) for my PC, and have been playing Unreal Tournament 2003. I do not see any blurring effect during gaming. While some of the hard core gamers have said they do notice a slight blurring effect, I'd have to say that for the rest of us, the 172T is definitely an acceptable gaming monitor. My GF also tried the game for an hour, and didn't notice any blurring either.

More importantly, the 16 ms monitors out there according to AnandTech's review have inferior colours to the 172T.

my first impressions - extremely nice....and bright...like very very bright....first thing i did was crank the bright settings way down.

Yeah, my brightness settings are way down too. I think what Samsung did is build it for bright offices. I had a couple of extra bright lamps in this room for a little while, and the extra brightness of the 172T came in handy. However, I prefer a more muted lighting setup, and ended up just buying new lamps that weren't as bright and cranked the 172T's brightness back down again.

natan · Feb 26, 2003, 08:08 AM

Is there any reason that I can't use a 172T (or 172W) with my iBook 700 and get dual-displays going?

I've enabled the firmware hack and it works great with the CRT's that I've tried..

Hm, I think I've answered my own question. But has anyone else done this?

Eug · Feb 26, 2003, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by natan:
Is there any reason that I can't use a 172T (or 172W) with my iBook 700 and get dual-displays going?

I've enabled the firmware hack and it works great with the CRT's that I've tried..

Hm, I think I've answered my own question. But has anyone else done this?

The 172T thru its VGA port works just like any other screen.

So if you have the hack working then the 172T would be fine, assuming you can display 1280x1024. The iBook 700 has pretty good image quality too out the VGA port, so it should look good on the 172T.

Mirroring (ie. at 1024x768) wouldn't look so good on the 172T though, since it's not the native resolution. Usable but not ideal.

Dogma · Jun 26, 2003, 01:57 PM

Just saw the widescreen 17" one today, and man, is that one nice looking display! Nice silver (will go well with the new G5) and some impressive clarity for a display that costs under �400. I would like it a bit higher rez though, maybe a larger screen to accommodate - simply extending a normal XGA sideways doesn't seem like enough pixels for a 17" - but then, I'm used to using my 12" iBook at 1024, so anything with a lower ppi looks a bit odd these days.

The Samsung definitely looks like the one to go with though for my G5 order. We'll see if Apple do anything with the current ones to sway me otherwise. Now, what to do about that keyboard...

G-mac · Jun 29, 2003, 03:41 AM

After reading online reviews, mags, seeing them in person, and reading this thread, I went and ordered a new one myself! Paid $492 including tax and shipping. I can't wait to get it hooked up to my new PM. Now to get rid of my PB/550...

Eug · Jun 29, 2003, 09:32 AM

Here is my setup again, for those of you who missed it the first time:

Steve · Jun 29, 2003, 12:58 PM

I need to go "test" one at a local computer shop and see if I want to get one for college...

Looks great though.

G-mac · Jun 29, 2003, 06:40 PM

I "tested" some at Circuit City and CompUSA. They weren't the same models, but pretty close. A 172S and another one (forgot name).

They have the same physical attributes, so I fiddled with the durability and flexibility of them at the store. They seemed really well made and look really nice up close. Then I saw those Kogis. Yech.

Those models looked pretty good already, so I figured the 172T would be awesome - thanks to Eug's posts!

Starry Night · Jun 30, 2003, 10:41 PM

Today I ordered a Power Mac 1.25ghz (SP) G4, one Samsung 172T flat panel display and a NEC/Mitsubishi 1760V 17" flat panel display. The NEC is supposed to be essentially the same as the Hitachi. I'll compare the two displays at home for a couple of weeks, keep the one I like, return the other.

Thanks for all your help, I'll let ya'll know how the comparison goes......

jessejlt · Jul 1, 2003, 05:30 AM

Has anyone played with the 172W? It's Samsung's widescreen model, and has a nice 23ms pixel responce. It weighs in < 600 USD.
Anyone have any pros / cons to say about this model?
jesse ;-)

PS: What is the prospect of iSight mounting onto this monitor? It has a 1" profile, I'm not sure what the studio displays have.

Starry Night · Jul 1, 2003, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by jessejlt:
Has anyone played with the 172W? It's Samsung's widescreen model, and has a nice 23ms pixel responce. It weighs in < 600 USD.
Anyone have any pros / cons to say about this model?
jesse ;-)

PS: What is the prospect of iSight mounting onto this monitor? It has a 1" profile, I'm not sure what the studio displays have.

Isn't that the one with the limited vertical resolution?

Eug · Jul 1, 2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by Starry Night:
Isn't that the one with the limited vertical resolution?

Yes. It's just the same monitor as the 172T with the same horizontal resolution and a lower (non-standard) vertical resolution, yet it costs more.

Tarcat · Jul 5, 2003, 05:32 PM

But its so ugly! I could never own a monitor that ugly. Give me apple design or one of those formac lcd's.

icruise · Jul 5, 2003, 08:16 PM

It's not ugly for chrissake. Compared to 99% of the LCD monitors out there it is beautiful. The Apple monitors don't really match anything that Apple makes anymore, and their thick frames make using multiple monitors harder.

Tarcat · Jul 5, 2003, 09:49 PM

But how many need multiple monitors? I couldn't afford it. The apple ones may not match the new desktops, but they do match old G4's like my trusty dual and the G5 i'll get in a few months (once the next update comes out) will sit under the desk anyway.

Steve · Jul 6, 2003, 12:55 AM

You could afford 2 (or 4

) of these if you were looking at getting a 22" or 23" Cinema display

.

Starry Night · Jul 10, 2003, 01:47 AM

G'day,

Ok, both the Samsung 172T and the NEC 1760V are here and I've spent time with them both.

True, neither is as good looking as an Apple display, but imho, performance and price take priority over looks.

The Samsung is the better looking of the two, but the NEC is ok, doesn't offend me in any way. Neither is "ugly", just not as oh so chic as the Apple display.

The Samsung was hooked up via DVI and the NEC via VGA. To be honest, they both are extremely similiar. I find the colors on the NEC to be a "little" more appealing and if you were splitting hairs, very small hairs, you might say text is a little sharper on the Samsung.

The NEC presentation is a little more vibrant, the Samsung more neutral. Yet those differences are slight. The Samsung has more features, like DVI, height adjustment (+ or - 2") and the included wall mount bracket. But the NEC is quicker at 16ms vs. 25ms. Neither had any dead pixels.

At my reseller of choice, the NEC is $180 cheaper after rebate. With an included $50 amazon gift certificate, the NEC cost me $417. Like I said, the overall display image quality is about even, imho. DVI vs. VGA seemed to make no difference, something Tom's Hardware also agreed upon. The extra features of the Samsung simply aren't high priorities with me, I'd rather save the $180.

Therefore, the Samsung goes back for refund and the NEC is here to stay. Thanks EUG for pointing out the NEC, it's a winner to be sure.

And for anyone considering an Apple LCD, I suggest strongly suggest you give one of these 3rd party displays a try. You'll save money and get a better display/warranty.

Amazon will let you return any display w/in 30 days with no restocking fee, it's certainly worth the trial.

There ya go!

GK · Jul 10, 2003, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by Starry Night:
G'day,

Ok, both the Samsung 172T and the NEC 1760V are here and I've spent time with them both.

True, neither is as good looking as an Apple display, but imho, performance and price take priority over looks.

The Samsung is the better looking of the two, but the NEC is ok, doesn't offend me in any way. Neither is "ugly", just not as oh so chic as the Apple display.

The Samsung was hooked up via DVI and the NEC via VGA. To be honest, they both are extremely similiar. I find the colors on the NEC to be a "little" more appealing and if you were splitting hairs, very small hairs, you might say text is a little sharper on the Samsung.

The NEC presentation is a little more vibrant, the Samsung more neutral. Yet those differences are slight. The Samsung has more features, like DVI, height adjustment (+ or - 2") and the included wall mount bracket. But the NEC is quicker at 16ms vs. 25ms. Neither had any dead pixels.

At my reseller of choice, the NEC is $180 cheaper after rebate. With an included $50 amazon gift certificate, the NEC cost me $417. Like I said, the overall display image quality is about even, imho. DVI vs. VGA seemed to make no difference, something Tom's Hardware also agreed upon. The extra features of the Samsung simply aren't high priorities with me, I'd rather save the $180.

Therefore, the Samsung goes back for refund and the NEC is here to stay. Thanks EUG for pointing out the NEC, it's a winner to be sure.

And for anyone considering an Apple LCD, I suggest strongly suggest you give one of these 3rd party displays a try. You'll save money and get a better display/warranty.

Amazon will let you return any display w/in 30 days with no restocking fee, it's certainly worth the trial.

There ya go!

I was going through this thread a couple of times today because I can't decide between the Samsung and the NEC. Thanks for the comparison, I'll probably go with the NEC. I went to a store (Best Buy)to look at the NEC, but the screen did not seem to be very bright. Starry Night, do you see any difference in the brightness between the two monitors ?

Thanks for the review

GK

Starry Night · Jul 10, 2003, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by GK:
I was going through this thread a couple of times today because I can't decide between the Samsung and the NEC. Thanks for the comparison, I'll probably go with the NEC. I went to a store (Best Buy)to look at the NEC, but the screen did not seem to be very bright. Starry Night, do you see any difference in the brightness between the two monitors ?

Thanks for the review

GK

Both are quite bright. Remember both have a full assortment of adjusts that can be made to suit. Plus you have the calibration ability in system preferences.... you can't go wrong either way....

Eug Wanker · Jul 10, 2003, 08:53 AM

I find DVI always bests even the best VGA for text quality. However, with the highest quality VGA, it can get pretty close. My Radeon 9100 on my PC looks great via VGA and only slightly better through DVI. On my TiBook though, the difference is pretty noticeable between DVI and VGA (via the DVI-I --> VGA converter).

TiUser · Jul 10, 2003, 10:34 AM

Just a quick question: is it possible to connect a PB12" to the 172W and get full widescreen resolution? Or would I see black borders on the side? Thanks.

G-mac · Jul 10, 2003, 11:13 AM

I ultimately went with the Samsung 172T because I thought it was a tad sharper and brighter than the NEC - I've got it hooked up using DVI. It arrived without any dead pixels and looks great running OS X. It's actually so bright, I have the brightness set at 60/100 (was getting a headache). Plus, it matches my room better.

BTW, that Amazon refund policy is really good - most places charge a 15% restocking fee or something outrageous like that. Do they do that with other products as well?

With regards to the 172W and the 12" PB, I would think you could run it widescreen. Any way this can be tested at the store or by another MacNNer?

Starry Night · Jul 10, 2003, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
I find DVI always bests even the best VGA for text quality. However, with the highest quality VGA, it can get pretty close. My Radeon 9100 on my PC looks great via VGA and only slightly better through DVI. On my TiBook though, the difference is pretty noticeable between DVI and VGA (via the DVI-I --> VGA converter).

Of course, it could vary depending on what computer it's being used on. However, Tom's Hardware says that current VGA set-ups are virtually identical to DVI and suggests saving the money and going VGA should that provide a price break. I think DVI used to make more of a difference than it does now. At least on the PM, there was no difference DVI vs. VGA, at least to the naked eye...