[anthonyvthc]

Just wondering how you guys would handle this situation...
I teach guitar part-time at a university. As extra credit (or to make up absences) I let my students write a short (2 page) paper about the history of the guitar. This semester I had two students hand in nearly identical papers. I googled a sentence from one of the papers and, sure enough, pulled up the website from which the papers were essentially copy-and-pasted (of course the students changed about one word per sentence).
As I'm sure you're probably aware, plagiarism is generally grounds for expulsion. As this was an extra credit assignment, I merely gave both students a D-. I felt I was being generous in the situation. One of the students has both called and emailed me trying to get me to change her grade. I feel no pity for her. She claims that she did not plagiarise because she listed the website at the end of the paper. However, the paper has about 5 words changed from those on the website.
I guss my question is how would you folks have handled the situation? Do you think I was too harsh/not harsh enough? Any input would be appreciated.

[PurpleGiant]

At the minimum, I think it would have been fair for you to give them an F. A D - for handing in a copy/paste from a website is very generous.

[anthonyvthc]

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

At the minimum, I think it would have been fair for you to give them an F. A D - for handing in a copy/paste from a website is very generous.

I just want to clarify; I gave them a D- as a final grade in the class, not as the grade for the paper (as it would be totally foolish to even grade a paper like that).

[Ω]

I have to deal with all the time. This internet generation is getting stupid and lazy. F would have been a better mark.

When will they realise it is about what THEY know, not what the EXPERTS know. Yes, their knowledge will be derived from the expert but it is how they have processed and understood it which is important.

One possible out is letting them resubmit an original assignment with a very heavy penalty.

Also have you investigated a website called turnitin.com which does plagiarism checks?

[Ω]

Originally Posted by anthonyvthc

I just want to clarify; I gave them a D- as a final grade in the class, not as the grade for the paper (as it would be totally foolish to even grade a paper like that).

Was it the only piece of assessment they did throughout the class?

[Big Mac]

You did the right thing, Anthony. Plagiarism should always be dealt with in a serious manner.

[anthonyvthc]

Originally Posted by Ω

I have to deal with all the time. This internet generation is getting stupid and lazy. F would have been a better mark.

When will they realise it is about what THEY know, not what the EXPERTS know. Yes, their knowledge will be derived from the expert but it is how they have processed and understood it which is important.

One possible out is letting them resubmit an original assignment with a very heavy penalty.

Also have you investigated a website called turnitin.com which does plagiarism checks?

Thanks for the tip. I'll check out that site.
One of the students is probably going to lose her scholarship for getting a grade lower than a C. The only reason I feel slightly bad is because it was an extra credit assignment. For that reason, I'm tempted to let her hand in a much more difficult assignment in exchange for a C in the class.

[anthonyvthc]

Originally Posted by Ω

Was it the only piece of assessment they did throughout the class?

Of course not. The student doing all the complaining was probably in the C+/B- range before, and the other student was around a C/C-.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by anthonyvthc

Of course not. The student doing all the complaining was probably in the C+/B- range before, and the other student was around a C/C-.

So neither was a steller student. If you have other submissions in written form you could start to look at those in more detail, or ask them to hand them back in so you can re-examine them (looking for a trend).

Personally I always get submissions electronically as it makes it easier to trace assignments back - I tend to mark about 70-100 submissions per week so it is good to keep good records.

You should definitely talk to your boss, as you will most likely find that they have a process to deal with this sort of situation, and it removes you from being the bad guy. You can argue that you are only following policy...yada yada yada.

They may even look to other courses to see if this is a trend warranting expulsion.

[nforcer]

I would have failed them. I have witnessed a lot of plagarism and cheating on tests. The people who I see do it are never caught. It really doesn't matter because the ones who plaguarize usually end up failing or barely passing anyway.

The thing I am really against are those who make up statisitics or other info so they have an easier time writing a report. That is basically the same as cheating and is detected far less often. I have spent a lot of time researching a topic and a weekend writing an essay or report on it, only to hear some people before class talking about how they made stuff up just to get it done. Then they get their papers back and end up receiving a good score. That really angers me.

[Link]

Giving them a 'lesson' might be a good option, I have no idea because I've never been in that situation (never would be), though I don't see how the internet 'makes one lazy', rather you can get a LOT more.

The last two papers I've written (and the first two papers ever for college stuff), I got very good scores, because I cited the heck out of them. To be 100% honest there's no way I could have gotten nearly as much info so fast by searching through books and libraries, plus I get to see more than just stuff by published PHDs and alladat.

[d.fine]

Make them work for it. Copy-pasting an essay is being lazy, tell their parents. I never copied or cheated at anything, because I actually wanted to learn something.
There are ways to use the information on the internet, copy-past is not one of them as far as I am concerned. Ok, you can use quotes and so, and do reasearch on it, and sure you can find tons and tons of good and usefull information in a fraction of the time, but I don't consider copy-here copy-there and paste onto a blank document working, and wouldn't dare submit a paper conceived like that.

[macroy]

You gave them an assigment - and they basically blew it off by "copying" someone elses work. Cited or not, the intent to 'cheat' was there (regardless of whether this was just an extra credit assigment or a final paper).

Put this in a different light, if they did that with a client deliverable in the working world... they'd be searching the job postings by now. Your actions were definitely not too harsh. In fact, if I was one of those two, I'd be real appreciative that you didn't take it any farther.

I can't believe one of them actually complained...

[Xeo]

Originally Posted by Link

Giving them a 'lesson' might be a good option, I have no idea because I've never been in that situation (never would be), though I don't see how the internet 'makes one lazy', rather you can get a LOT more.

The last two papers I've written (and the first two papers ever for college stuff), I got very good scores, because I cited the heck out of them. To be 100% honest there's no way I could have gotten nearly as much info so fast by searching through books and libraries, plus I get to see more than just stuff by published PHDs and alladat.

I don't think anyone was trying to say the internet isn't a good resource. But you can't select/copy/paste from a book so people are tempted to take whole sections from stuff they find online, slap a citation on it, and hand it in. As I'm sure you know, that's not the correct way to use that information.

When I started college, I learned very quickly how to cite an internet source.

As for this situation, shouldn't it be your responsibility to turn it into the Dean of Students (or whoever handles cheating). Your grade choice is reasonable, and not failing them is generous of you, but I think it should be up to the college if even further action should be taken.

At my college, I am pretty sure the professors are required to turn that information into the Dean of Students. At least, on syllabi that I've gotten, more than one has said "plagiarism will result in an automatic F for the course and notification to..." So that leads me to believe there is more than one level of punishment for these things.

We have a judicial review board that handles these matters. Assuming your university has a similar court-style decision making process, the students would have the opportunity to make his/her case.

[slowspeed]

I think it does make a little difference that it was an extra-credit assignment, but basically it was a gamble and they lost. I was once accused of taking more than a reasonable amount of, although properly referenced, information taken from the writings of a subject matter expert when I was doing my psychology degree. I was asked to write an on the spot essay about my method in writing what I had submitted, i did, and the work was allowed and I received a very good grade.

I'm not, but if I was a teacher I think I would be more concerned with how much of the info submitted was retained by the students....

[boots]

Originally Posted by Xeo

At my college, I am pretty sure the professors are required to turn that information into the Dean of Students. At least, on syllabi that I've gotten, more than one has said "plagiarism will result in an automatic F for the course and notification to..." So that leads me to believe there is more than one level of punishment for these things.

We have a judicial review board that handles these matters. Assuming your university has a similar court-style decision making process, the students would have the opportunity to make his/her case.

XEO: yeah, all offenses are supposed to be forwarded to the Dean of Students. Even if it's a first offense; they look to see if there is another class in which the student cheated. We are free to do as we choose, however, for punishment. The honor board then adjudicates any appeals. Multiple offenses will get you expelled.

Many (myself included) give a zero (F) on the assignment for first offense and an F for the course for the second...then it goes to the honor board. I think this is kind of lenient, but I also believe is giving people the chance to recover from mistakes.

Interestingly, there have been no actions brought to the honor board since it was established.

[keekeeree]

I thought your reaction was perfect for the situation. Expulsion over an extra credit would have been too severe.

One possible solution to handle the student who may lose a scholarship over the grade you've given her: explain the situation to another faculty member in your department and let him or her read the paper the student turned in. Call in the student for a meeting with you and this other faculty person, telling her only it's regarding her paper. Once the meeting starts, explain to the student that she can raise her grade back up to a C if she can thoroughly summarize and discuss the contents of the paper she's handed in. Since the intent of the assignment was for her to learn, if she can prove that she in fact learned and retained the information in her paper, the end result is what was desired.

Of course, this is only if you want to give her a chance. Part me says a scholarship student that's plagiarised doesn't deserve a scholarship, while another part says if the scholarship is the only means she's able to go to school, then we're back to expulsion (albiet inadvertantly) over an extra credit assignment.

[Mrjinglesusa]

I think you dealt with the situation perfectly. I do have concerns that someone may lose a scholorship over an extra credit assignment though. Fact is, she didn't have to do it. If she didn't do it, she would have received her normal grade for the course (C+/B-) and retained her scholorship. Tough call.

Plagiarism is a serious offense in academia but on an extra credit assignment that is not even required it seems a bit harsh for someone to lose a scholarship over it. Just my opinion, but I would throw out the assignment and give her the lowest grade possible where she still keep her scholarship (C or C-). If this were a normal assigment, I would have immediately failed them both and referred them to the honor committee if your school has one.

[paul w]

ARGHHH!!!

I couldn't disagree more with the argument that because it's extra credit, it is somehow less of an offense. What they did is stupid. I would have perhaps given them a chance to redo the assignment with penalty as stated, otherwise I'd have given an F. If I was feeling generous I'd have taken the time to explain why this deserved such a severe penalty and given the student a chance to own up to and make up the assignment.

That a student should complain about losing a scholarship is preposterous. I'm sick of dealing with supposed college educated people who are basically useless in real world settings because apparently they somehow managed to coast through the system. In the real world the consequences would be indeed quite dire- losing one's job at the very least.

[storer]

To now, at secondary school level, I have never, and will never plaigiarise, its lazy. This "internet" generation is not lazy in general. Just some are.

[RAILhead]

You gave them a simple assigment - and they basically blew it off by "copying" someone's work. Cited or not, the intent to cheat was there (whether this was just an extra credit assigment or a final paper is moot).

To put this in a different light, if they did that with a client in the working world, they'd be searching the job postings by now. Your actions were in no way too harsh. In fact, if I was one of those two, I'd be appreciative that you didn't take it any further.

I can't believe one of them actually had the guts to complain...

[RAILhead]

^
^

(couldn't resist)

[MountainMac]

Originally Posted by storer

To now, at secondary school level, I have never, and will never plaigiarise, its lazy. This "internet" generation is not lazy in general. Just some are.

Judging by your spelling and grammar, maybe you should start.

Where I went to school, cheating was a single-sanction offense, meaning that if you got caught cheating, and were convicted by the Honor Committee, you were kicked out of school and not allowed back. With that in mind, I don't think you were being too harsh, anthony.

"On my honor as a student I have neither given nor received aid on
this exam/assignment."

[Millennium]

My wife and I both do a fair amount of console gaming, anime, manga, and a fair amount of other stuff which happens to be trendy among today's youth. Generally, her students love her for it, but a few have learned to their dismay that there's a disadvantage to having cool teachers...

In addition to her regular Latin classes, she also teaches a class of what the local system calls "Introduction to Foreign Language"; a semester-long middle school elective consisting of three weeks each of Latin, Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and American Sign Language. I think it's a great concept, but it tends to get the dregs of the eighth grade who couldn't get into any other elective.

Now, near the end of the German unit, she had the students do a project: create a fairy-tale monster and submit a picture describing things like its color, parts of its body, and so forth in German, accompanied by a fairy tale (in English) about it. She got back stories from Dragon Ball, Yu Yu Hakusho, several different Final Fantasy games (including one so poorly-disguised as to feature "the summoner Nuya"), and so forth. Then there were the pictures; several came back on tracing paper, and she got at least one case where someone had actually just printed out a picture of Goku from one Dragon Ball series or another. The worst part is, stuff like this came back from half of her class.

She had, of course, played these games and seen these anime. Moreover, she had discussed them in class on several occasions, so the students knew she was familiar with the things they were plagiarizing from. The lecture went something as follows: "Aside from the plagiarism issue, you guys know that I play video games. You know that I watch anime. You know that I play Magic. Trying to pull a stunt like that on me was, shall we say, not the wisest decision you could have made."

She failed them all on the assignment, of course. I think she took enough pity on them, given the sheer dumbassary displayed, to not fail them for the entire course, but she was strongly considering doing that. The administration at her school is very serious about plagiarism; anyone turned in to them gets a visit from the police. She didn't go that far, but she's done that too on a few occasions. Now, the other teachers will occasionally ask her to look over papers which they suspect might be plagiarized from anime or games, and she's caught a few people there too.

[anthonyvthc]

Thanks for all the input folks. As it stands, I am keeping the grades as they are. I will be contacting my boss to see how he would handle the situation.
If anyone is interested, here is her email followed by my response:

Dear Mr. A,

Hi, This is snip from your guitar class, I went to the registrar's office and they said that they don't have the power to change grades and that only the teacher can do so.

I feel that I do not deserve to get a D because I have worked so hard in your class and I did learn. The sad part is, I wouldn't even get the credit for guitar towards my fine arts credit but the grade i get, will still count toward my GPA. Also, I am afraid that this might cause me to lose my scholarship and I could not afford to pay for college without it. And because I majoring in nursing I could not get a grade lower than a C to be in the nursing program.

I believe that I did not plagiarize because I rewrote the article down in my own words and I wrote the website where I found it, which is citing the paper.

These are the many factors that caused me to suddenly want to talk to you. Im very sorry if I disturbed you on the phone but please take in consideration that I cited the website where I found the article and I didn't just copy and paste it.

I am willing to do whatever is needed to raise this grade because my scholarship, nursing major and GPA is at stake.


Thank you,


snip,
First things first; what you did is plagiarism. There is no doubt
about that. Regardless of the fact that you put the web address at
the end of the paper, you took someone else's words and attempted to
pass them off as your own. Understand that you can be kicked out of
school for this. The only reason I did not give you an F is because
this was an extra credit assignment.
I hope, for your sake, that you do not attempt this in the future, as
you might have a teacher not as forgiving as I.
What do you think would be an acceptable way to make up for this? I
am interested to hear your suggestions. If you came up with an
acceptable option, I would consider changing your grade to a C (but no
higher).
I hope you realize that I have no pity for you in this situation. You
tried to take advantage of my good nature, and that deeply offends me.



I think I got my point across.

Please don't use her real name -TI

[ManOfSteal]

Just wondering how you guys would handle this situation...
I teach guitar part-time at a university. As extra credit (or to make up absences) I let my students write a short (2 page) paper about the history of the guitar. This semester I had two students hand in nearly identical papers. I googled a sentence from one of the papers and, sure enough, pulled up the website from which the papers were essentially copy-and-pasted (of course the students changed about one word per sentence).
As I'm sure you're probably aware, plagiarism is generally grounds for expulsion. As this was an extra credit assignment, I merely gave both students a D-. I felt I was being generous in the situation. One of the students has both called and emailed me trying to get me to change her grade. I feel no pity for her. She claims that she did not plagiarise because she listed the website at the end of the paper. However, the paper has about 5 words changed from those on the website.
I guss my question is how would you folks have handled the situation? Do you think I was too harsh/not harsh enough? Any input would be appreciated.

(What about it?)

[deej5871]

Originally Posted by paul w

In the real world the consequences would be indeed quite dire- losing one's job at the very least.

Then let the harsher consequences happen in the real world. School, including college, is about learning, even learning from your mistakes. If you don't get the chance and get booted after your first mistake (which it seems will happen to this girl) then what have you learned? Sure, you learned never to plagiarize again, but then your life is destroyed in the process. I think she should be made to do some other work or, ask was suggested before, as her to tell you what her paper was about to see if she learned anything. That's what's important. People get so tied up with rules and regulations that they forget that education is learning.

(When I say "tied up with rules and regulations" I don't mean she shouldn't be punished at all. Obviously she did something wrong and there must be consequences, but those consequences for this one act shouldn't be so dramatic that she can't go to school anymore.)

[Ω]

Originally Posted by anthonyvthc

Thanks for all the input folks. As it stands, I am keeping the grades as they are. I will be contacting my boss to see how he would handle the situation.

I strongly advise that you do. Also stop communicating with the student, especially in written form.

At my University we have a lawsuit currently being waged where a student is suing the Uni over grades given. The claim is that the teacher was too critical and that the marks awarded were not fair (read: he was caught copying and got a 0 for the assignment causing his overall grade to be affected)

This is not your battle to wage, but your superiors. Let them decide the outcome, sure you can make a recommendation, but walk away from it as it is not worth the grief.

2c

[olePigeon]

I think an F is even more generous than a D-. In the CSU system and many community colleges, you can retake a class if you recieved an F in it. While the F is still on your transcript, only the new grade will effect your GPA. You can't retake the class if you got a D or better. So not only do you get a crappy grade, but it messes up your GPA and you can't retake the course without special consideration from the department head.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by deej5871

Then let the harsher consequences happen in the real world. School, including college, is about learning, even learning from your mistakes.

College is for adults. They should have learned better than to cheat by this point. If they have not, they are not ready for college. College may be for learning, but it's not for learning things that should have been learned in elementary school.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by anthonyvthc

Thanks for all the input folks. As it stands, I am keeping the grades as they are. I will be contacting my boss to see how he would handle the situation.
If anyone is interested, here is her email followed by my response:

Um, I'd go back and edit out her name if I were you. I wouldn't have posted that info to a public forum... if she found out about it you might get in trouble for it...

[sideus]

Just wondering how you guys would handle this situation...
I teach guitar part-time at a university. As extra credit (or to make up absences) I let my students write a short (2 page) paper about the history of the guitar. This semester I had two students hand in nearly identical papers. I googled a sentence from one of the papers and, sure enough, pulled up the website from which the papers were essentially copy-and-pasted (of course the students changed about one word per sentence).
As I'm sure you're probably aware, plagiarism is generally grounds for expulsion. As this was an extra credit assignment, I merely gave both students a D-. I felt I was being generous in the situation. One of the students has both called and emailed me trying to get me to change her grade. I feel no pity for her. She claims that she did not plagiarise because she listed the website at the end of the paper. However, the paper has about 5 words changed from those on the website.
I guss my question is how would you folks have handled the situation? Do you think I was too harsh/not harsh enough? Any input would be appreciated.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Person Man

Um, I'd go back and edit out her name if I were you. I wouldn't have posted that info to a public forum... if she found out about it you might get in trouble for it...

For that matter, why are you asking people on a Mac internet forum advice on how to deal with teaching problems in the first place? Ask your fellow teachers, ask your administrators. Posting her email and your reply was just plain unethical. This is a matter between you, your students, and your administrators - not the entire MacNN community. Do what you think is right and stick by it - you shoudn't need guidance from MacNN members.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by anthonyvthc

Thanks for all the input folks. As it stands, I am keeping the grades as they are. I will be contacting my boss to see how he would handle the situation.
If anyone is interested, here is her email followed by my response:

Dear Mr. A,

Hi, This is snip from your guitar class, I went to the registrar's office and they said that they don't have the power to change grades and that only the teacher can do so.

I feel that I do not deserve to get a D because I have worked so hard in your class and I did learn. The sad part is, I wouldn't even get the credit for guitar towards my fine arts credit but the grade i get, will still count toward my GPA. Also, I am afraid that this might cause me to lose my scholarship and I could not afford to pay for college without it. And because I majoring in nursing I could not get a grade lower than a C to be in the nursing program.

I believe that I did not plagiarize because I rewrote the article down in my own words and I wrote the website where I found it, which is citing the paper.

These are the many factors that caused me to suddenly want to talk to you. Im very sorry if I disturbed you on the phone but please take in consideration that I cited the website where I found the article and I didn't just copy and paste it.

I am willing to do whatever is needed to raise this grade because my scholarship, nursing major and GPA is at stake.


Thank you,


snip,
First things first; what you did is plagiarism. There is no doubt
about that. Regardless of the fact that you put the web address at
the end of the paper, you took someone else's words and attempted to
pass them off as your own. Understand that you can be kicked out of
school for this. The only reason I did not give you an F is because
this was an extra credit assignment.
I hope, for your sake, that you do not attempt this in the future, as
you might have a teacher not as forgiving as I.
What do you think would be an acceptable way to make up for this? I
am interested to hear your suggestions. If you came up with an
acceptable option, I would consider changing your grade to a C (but no
higher).
I hope you realize that I have no pity for you in this situation. You
tried to take advantage of my good nature, and that deeply offends me.



I think I got my point across.

You should have gone to the department chairperson from the start. Since you are not a full-time professor and have no tenure it would have been smart to ask what university policy was and followed it to the letter. I think you are making the situation more complicated than it has to be.

[Secret__Police]

Just wondering how you guys would handle this situation...
I teach guitar part-time at a university. As extra credit (or to make up absences) I let my students write a short (2 page) paper about the history of the guitar. This semester I had two students hand in nearly identical papers. I googled a sentence from one of the papers and, sure enough, pulled up the website from which the papers were essentially copy-and-pasted (of course the students changed about one word per sentence).
As I'm sure you're probably aware, plagiarism is generally grounds for expulsion. As this was an extra credit assignment, I merely gave both students a D-. I felt I was being generous in the situation. One of the students has both called and emailed me trying to get me to change her grade. I feel no pity for her. She claims that she did not plagiarise because she listed the website at the end of the paper. However, the paper has about 5 words changed from those on the website.
I guss my question is how would you folks have handled the situation? Do you think I was too harsh/not harsh enough? Any input would be appreciated.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Secret__Police

Useless post deleted

Ok, knock it off. It wasn't funny the first time someone did it, and it is sure as heck not funny the third time or any subsequent times it's done...

[deej5871]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

College is for adults. They should have learned better than to cheat by this point. If they have not, they are not ready for college. College may be for learning, but it's not for learning things that should have been learned in elementary school.

Would you really describe most people in college as adults? Most of them can't even legally purchase alcohol. If the government doesn't consider them responsible enough to drink, then I wouldn't consider them responsible adults.

To be fair, you're right that it is something that should be taught in elementary school, but there could be any number of reasons why this specific girl didn't really know that yet (former teachers didn't enforce rules against plagiarism, was taught that "as long as you cite it, it's not plagiarism" (one of my teachers held that view to a degree), etc.)

[starman]

Originally Posted by deej5871

Would you really describe most people in college as adults? Most of them can't even legally purchase alcohol. If the government doesn't consider them responsible enough to drink, then I wouldn't consider them responsible adults.

But they're old enough to VOTE.

And some of them live on their own.

'Nuff said, I think.

Mike

[ASIMO]

So plagiarism is all about using other people's work and pretending it's your own. Now, we could have a long metaphysical debate about where we get our ideas from whenever we write a paper. Of course most of the ideas and concepts we present in our written work have been presented previously, by someone else in some other context. Even ideas we think of as "our own" often originated in some half-forgotten tract we read months or years ago. Does this make us guilty of plagiarism every time we put pen to paper? No, certainly not. In fact, plagiarism only comes into play within a fairly tightly defined "zone" of writing. There are a few salient factors that form the boundary of this "zone"; you are probably already tacitly aware of most of them. By knowing and understanding how these factors apply in all writing, including your own, you should be able to steer well clear of plagiarism. It's not hard. Your innate sense of "right" and "wrong" should keep you safe in most respects...

[Millennium]

Actually, my wife had a few more questions, because technically the girl who wrote down the Website may not have been plagiarizing after all. Writing down the site in the bibliography isn't enough to save her, of course, but did she use proper quotes and citations inside the paper? That is to say, are the words from Website in the paper marked up properly as quotations, and individually cited as such?

My guess is that she did not do this, and if she didn't then she's still guilty of plagiarism. If she did do citations, however, then I'm afraid she's got you on a legal (yes, legal) technicality, and you can't alter her grade for the course on that basis. That said, you could certainly give her a zero on that assignment, based on the following rubric:

Originality/Creativity: Although someone else might have put originality and creativity into the paper, she did not: 0 points.
Thoughtfulness: These aren't her thoughts: 0 points.
Display of Knowledge about the Subject: This does not display her knowledge at all: 0 points.

...and so on, and so forth. The end result is that she still fails the assignment (and possibly the course, if this assignment would have allowed her to pass when she otherwise wouldn't), but she doesn't get nailed for plagiarism. She would also be extraordinarily lucky that she chose to be such a dumbass on an extra credit assignment, and not something like a final essay.

But if she's got the citations, then you can't get her for plagiarism. This is a legal issue, and you could technically be sued if you alter her grade for it when she hasn't technically committed it, so tread lightly.

[shabbasuraj]

F for both.

[tooki]

Note that everything I say here is while I am in college myself, spending lots of time writing papers of my own.

Well, even though it shouldn't matter, what year are these students? If they're freshmen, they honestly may not have a proper understanding of what is and isn't plagiarism, and maybe deserve slight leniency. If they're sophomores or, god forbid, upperclassmen, then they deserve "Insta-Flunk" in the class and referral to honor board because by then, they absolutely should know better.

That said, the email that one girl sent didn't indicate that she understood what she did wrong, so I doubt she's learned anything. She deserves the F, frankly. Plagiarism is unfair to those students who work hard to actually do the work, and for that alone should be dealt with harshly.

Add to that the fact that this was extra-credit, so it was a half-assed effort to make up for their slacking throughout the semester (e.g. the absences you mentioned). That should worsen the penalty, since the assignment itself was essentially penalty mitigation. Think of it like this: you get taken to court for writing bad checks, and when the judge orders you to pay restitution, you do it by writing another bad check. That's how this situation seems to me.

I can't say that I like the idea of turnitin.com on many levels (I fear that too many teachers will rely on it blindly without verifying themselves... I mean, there are only so many ways to word some things!). But it is good for catching blatant internet plagiarism. One of the most bizarre things about internet plagiarism is that, in fact, the sites cited have often plagiarized the material themselves. When doing research, I frequently find the same text, with no citations/sources/copyrights, on several sites. This serves to reinforce to naïve students that copying is OK.

One of the worst cases of blatant plagiarism I ever experienced was in a group project in my sophomore year of Information Systems. I was the group project manager, and responsible for coordinating all the members' contributions. Well, this one chick emails me her "contribution": it was a section I had written, cut-and-pasted into a fresh Word file with a different font!!

I told the prof, and yes, she failed the class (not only for this, but other laziness as well, including missing class 75% of the time).

tooki

[budster101]

Originally Posted by anthonyvthc

Just wondering how you guys would handle this situation...
I teach guitar part-time at a university. As extra credit (or to make up absences) I let my students write a short (2 page) paper about the history of the guitar. This semester I had two students hand in nearly identical papers. I googled a sentence from one of the papers and, sure enough, pulled up the website from which the papers were essentially copy-and-pasted (of course the students changed about one word per sentence).
As I'm sure you're probably aware, plagiarism is generally grounds for expulsion. As this was an extra credit assignment, I merely gave both students a D-. I felt I was being generous in the situation. One of the students has both called and emailed me trying to get me to change her grade. I feel no pity for her. She claims that she did not plagiarise because she listed the website at the end of the paper. However, the paper has about 5 words changed from those on the website.
I guss my question is how would you folks have handled the situation? Do you think I was too harsh/not harsh enough? Any input would be appreciated.

You've gotten some great advice here, and I'm only happy to try and add to it.

5 words changed? They meant to steal the work, now read on.

---

Plagiarism is stealing, and should be punishable by an "F" and nothing more. A message has to be sent to them and it has to last them! The other students worked hard on their research and source materials and deserve credit for learning. If one is to reference another's work, that is one thing, but give credit where it is due!

There is nothing wrong with soliciting the advice from people whom you respect. If you have confidence in this [MacNN] community, then it is an honor to have the opportunity to give you some advice and support. Of course you should depend more on your fellow teachers and administration as they are more closely involved in the situation, and will be more privey to any mitigating circumstances with these students. There may be more going on than we can possibly be aware of. Do they have problems at home? Is it broken? Some students are under great duress at home and cannot get any work done, so they struggle and stress out until the last moment, only to fall to the easy way out of plagiarism. Get the parents involved. This is an important lesson that will impact their academic future.

I am almost embarrassed to ask, but isn't this one topic covered when you went to school to obtain your degree? Handling plagiarism in the classroom.

Here is some professional advice:

Handling Plagiarism

Plagiarism Workshops

[anthonyvthc]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Actually, my wife had a few more questions, because technically the girl who wrote down the Website may not have been plagiarizing after all. Writing down the site in the bibliography isn't enough to save her, of course, but did she use proper quotes and citations inside the paper? That is to say, are the words from Website in the paper marked up properly as quotations, and individually cited as such?

My guess is that she did not do this, and if she didn't then she's still guilty of plagiarism. If she did do citations, however, then I'm afraid she's got you on a legal (yes, legal) technicality, and you can't alter her grade for the course on that basis. That said, you could certainly give her a zero on that assignment, based on the following rubric:

Originality/Creativity: Although someone else might have put originality and creativity into the paper, she did not: 0 points.
Thoughtfulness: These aren't her thoughts: 0 points.
Display of Knowledge about the Subject: This does not display her knowledge at all: 0 points.

...and so on, and so forth. The end result is that she still fails the assignment (and possibly the course, if this assignment would have allowed her to pass when she otherwise wouldn't), but she doesn't get nailed for plagiarism. She would also be extraordinarily lucky that she chose to be such a dumbass on an extra credit assignment, and not something like a final essay.

But if she's got the citations, then you can't get her for plagiarism. This is a legal issue, and you could technically be sued if you alter her grade for it when she hasn't technically committed it, so tread lightly.

First of all, thanks again to everyone for their suggestions. To the person who made the comment to the effect of "you shouldn't come to a Mac board for advice," get a life. That's what every single person on this board does.

To answer your question Millienium, nothing was quoted at all. The entire piece was verbatim from the website (not even a good website at that) with words like "therefore" changed to "because." It was all a very sad attempt.

I don't think I mentioned this, but there were actually two students that submitted (essentially) the same paper (copied from the same website). He has yet to contact me, and I suppose he understands why he got the grade he did.

I have been in contact with my boss, and he has also offered some valuable suggestions.

Thanks again.

[budster101]

We are the smartest people you'll find, with a diverse background. Why wouldn't you ask for help here?
What else would you do, ask for a problem with your Mac? (Rare)

[alphasubzero949]

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

F for both.

Agreed, extra credit or not.

[bradoesch]

Originally Posted by Ω

I have to deal with all the time. This internet generation is getting stupid and lazy. F would have been a better mark.

When will they realise it is about what THEY know, not what the EXPERTS know. Yes, their knowledge will be derived from the expert but it is how they have processed and understood it which is important.

One possible out is letting them resubmit an original assignment with a very heavy penalty.

Also have you investigated a website called turnitin.com which does plagiarism checks?

I see you got your name changed.

[tooki]

From today's New York Times:

May 22, 2005
Want Your Letter to Stand Out? Here's a Tip: Write It Yourself

By DAVID KOEPPEL
What makes a cover letter stand out from the hundreds that can inundate a hiring manager for even the lowest-paying entry-level positions? Some say a compelling first paragraph or an original way of expressing an idea can cut through the clutter.

But four recent applicants for a receptionist position at a Manhattan photography studio were noticed for an entirely different reason. All four, who live in different parts of New York City, used identical language in a portion of their e-mailed cover letters, said Mary Catanzaro, the employee who reviewed and screened the applications.

"What my résumé does not reveal is my professional demeanor and appearance," all four wrote. "In a business environment these qualities are of the utmost importance in dealing with clients as well as co-workers. In me, you'll discover a reliable, detail-oriented and extremely hard-working associate, one who will serve as a model to encourage other staff members to demonstrate a high standard of professionalism."

The applicants apparently lifted the passage from the Microsoft Office Web site's template gallery ("Secretary cover letter"), a tactic that has become increasingly common in an age when thousands of cover letters, résumés and thank-you notes are readily available to download or cut and paste.

Specialists agree that the abundance of job information available online makes it possible for people to conduct more informed job searches. But it is also more likely that employers will receive similar or nearly identical résumés and cover letters copied from easily accessible Web sites. Résumés downloaded from online templates and sent to employers often show up with similar or identical layouts, formats, fonts, headings and objectives.

Some sites promote a casual attitude toward the practice of lifting words, phrases or whole passages. "Take out the guesswork and easily get great ideas from these top-notch samples," reads one online advertisement, which offered 50 sample cover letters customers could use to steal phrases and words for their own cover letters.

How serious an offense is this? Some are not sure it should be considered an offense at all. "It's something of a gray area," said Randall S. Hansen, a marketing professor at Stetson University in DeLand, Fla., and founder of Quintessential Careers, an online job-search information site. "If it were a student assignment I would say that it's plagiarism. As an employer, I would think this is a lazy individual and question the ethics of taking someone else's work."

Mr. Hansen says that in a world of high-profile business scandals, employers are far more sensitive to character and may wonder if the person lifting passages from a generic online letter could be a future employee stealing office supplies. But he also understands that a society that has come to view the Internet as a free library may wonder why "they should have to reinvent the wheel" with the vast amount of job material available.

Some job seekers see no difference between taking passages from online sites and hiring a résumé consultant to write the documents for them.

Daphne Jean Baptiste, a Queens resident who is looking for a customer service or administrative assistant position, said that in the past she had used portions of online résumés or cover letters if they were "worded better" than her own.

But she says that potential employers are more responsive to personalized résumés and cover letters specially tailored to each position.

Ms. Catanzaro, 35, the photography studio assistant who reviewed the identically worded cover letters, said none of the applicants were turned down for interviews because of perceived ethical transgressions.

"If it had been a job for a copywriter, I might have held it against them," she said. "But I don't know how important it is for a receptionist to have an original cover letter."

Elizabeth Kiss, director of the Kenan Center for Ethics at Duke University in Durham, N.C., agreed that for a promising entry-level candidate, appropriating online material might be considered an error of ignorance.

But if the same thing happened with a more experienced job seeker, she would consider it a deal-breaker. While not as egregious as falsifying a résumé, she said it was dishonest - "passing someone else's words off as their own."

Ms. Kiss also sees a similarity between copying cover letter and résumé material and hiring professional résumé services, a practice that is widely accepted and even considered a smart career move by many job seekers and employers.

While she finds nothing unethical about helping a job seeker put together a résumé, she says that hiring someone to write the document blurs the line between what is and is not original work.

Mr. Hansen, who in addition to his jobs Web site offers an online writing service called Quintessential Résumés and Cover Letters, said, "It's possible to create a flawless document and a false image."

"When hiring a résumé consultant, my advice is consider credentials and testimonials. I've seen people pay a lot of money and get an inferior product. Above all, buyer beware."

That has not been a problem for Mark Shelley, 41, a vice president for sales support at Harcourt Achieve, an educational publisher in Austin, Tex., who has stuck with the same résumé service since he graduated from college in 1988. Mr. Shelley, an English major, said he was not good at assessing his own skills or writing business cover letters.

"It's very difficult as an individual to be objective about your own career," he said. "To have a skilled outsider look at your work from an objective point of view is helpful."

John Challenger, chief executive of Challenger, Gray & Christmas, an outplacement firm based in Chicago, said the typical job searcher focused too much attention on résumé and cover letters. He says he has found that "wordsmithing" cover letters to match every ad is a not a good use of time and that résumés do not always open doors.

The reality, he says, is that many cover letters go unread and that résumés are often put into large databases and eliminated if they do not contain certain words or phrases. He encourages job seekers to network, respond to job ads and even try phoning potential employers directly.

Still, most employees will use résumés and cover letters as their introduction to future employers. And specialists say that sample résumés and cover letters can be useful to inspire ideas for individualized documents.

The University of Texas career services Web site offers a clear warning to students and alumni about copying material.

"Please do not copy the letters verbatim," it said. "Copying these letters could have a negative impact if your classmates use the same letter to the same organization. This has happened. So don't let it happen to you."


Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[Randman]

tooki, D- for copying and pasting.

I agree with the others that a D- for that girl is more than deserving. It sounded like she thought the class was a blow-off and did the bare minimum and didn't expect to be called on it.
Personally, I'd hate to have a nurse who was dumb enough not to rewrite a few things here and there.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Couldn't your job be on the line for not handling this properly? I would have submitted this to administration for their perspective before taking any action if I was going to take any action at all.