[brassplayersrock²]

I was crossing the street with a 4 way stop. I'm in the crosswalk and zooms past me is a guy on a bike, literally a couple of inches in front of me. I tap him on his left shoulder as he passes. Not a shove, not a push, a simple tap. He stops an gets off his bike an comes back, as I'm about to get on the sidewalk, I see him coming to me an I tell him that it's called a stop sign for a reason, he spits in my face, an rides off laughing.

[Doofy]

The vast majority of cyclists should be shot.

[CharlesS]

I've almost been hit three times by automobile drivers who did that same thing, each time while crossing the street legally in a crosswalk. I've also been honked at numerous times while legally crossing the street, and witnessed other people being honked at because someone just can't wait a few seconds to make a right turn. While riding a bike legally on the street, following road rules, I've been yelled "SIDEWALK!" by automobile drivers numerous times, honked at, and yelled other unpleasant things at. I've also almost been hit several times by people who don't look to see if something's coming before opening the door of a parallel-parked car.

I guess Doofy's solution would be that we should round up all the automobile drivers and shoot them all. It would certainly raise the average IQ of the human race a few points.

(note to the dense: this is sarcasm)

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I guess Doofy's solution would be that we should round up all the automobile drivers and shoot them all.

No, silly. What you've just described is good justification for rounding up all the pedestrians and sending them off to a gulag.

[RAILhead]

I got spit at once, and the guy went home pissing blood.

You're a better man then me.

[brassplayersrock²]

By the time I realized what he did, he was gone. cowardly basturd

[Gankdawg]

I understand bicyclists frustrations with automobile drivers who don't pay attention but if you are riding a bike, you'd better follow the rules of the road too.

[Kerrigan]

The worst are crotch-rocket drivers.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Gankdawg 

I understand bicyclists frustrations with automobile drivers who don't pay attention but if you are riding a bike, you'd better follow the rules of the road too.

Exactly. Bicyclists are not except from traffic laws except where explicitly posted. I'll admit that as a bicyclist I sometimes run red lights with the pedestian signals (in other words when traffic is stopped by red lights anyways), but the attitude of most of my fellow bicyclists generally seems to be that it's everyone else's responsibility to look out for them. Personally I find that, regardless of any legal obligations, it's just simple common sense that as an unprotected human being hurtling down the road at 20+ mph on a bare steel frame with nothing separating me from the two ton behemoths that have less visibility, maneuverability, and stopping power than I do, that it behooves me to actually yield once in a while.

[turtle777]

The farked up thing is, if you hit bicyclist with your car, it's almost always your fault, no matter how that idiot was riding his bike. Just because he's weaker.

-t

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

The vast majority of cyclists should be shot.

Point of order: perhaps the vast majority of "people using bicycles" should be shot, but that subset that is actually "cyclists" gets a bad rep from the idiots who do what BPR talked about and worse. Brass, that action is referred to legally as "battery." His menacing approach could constitute "assault," too. He's a jerk and thinks he hot stuff. He's something, but not in a good way. I'm glad that all that happened was that he proved what a poor excuse for a human being he is.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Gankdawg 

I understand bicyclists frustrations with automobile drivers who don't pay attention but if you are riding a bike, you'd better follow the rules of the road too.

Is anyone disputing this? I try my best to follow the rules of the road, but automobile drivers think they're exempt from the road rules because they own the road or something. Failing to yield to pedestrians crossing in the crosswalk (and having the right of way)? Honking at pedestrians crossing the street at a crosswalk while they have a walk signal, and the right of way? Yelling at bicyclists to ride on the sidewalk (which over here is illegal and punishable by up to a $250 fine and loss of your bike)? They think they own the road, and everyone else better just get out of their way.

Also: go to an intersection with a stoplight, and watch what happens when the light turns yellow. All the cars will speed up and zoom through it, and even when the light finally turns red there will still be one more car that barrels through. And don't even think about expecting anyone to follow the speed limit.....

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Also: go to an intersection with a stoplight, and watch what happens when the light turns yellow. All the cars will speed up and zoom through it, and even when the light finally turns red there will still be one more car that barrels through. And don't even think about expecting anyone to follow the speed limit.....

Are you in San Antonio? Or is this scourge not limited to my local population?

[CharlesS]

Nope, and I've noticed it in plenty more than one place, so it's definitely the latter.

At least the city I live in currently doesn't have one fun "feature" the old one did - back there, it used to be that if you ever actually stopped at a stop sign instead of just slowing down a little, the car behind you would honk.

[nonhuman]

It's real big in Boston too. Around here, when your light turns green it's best to wait for another car or two to go by before you hit the gas.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Seattle has been putting more and more automated cameras up to ticket red light runners. Hopefully it will catch on. I hear it raises quite a lot of money too. I got caught by one once, and it sure changed my driving habits.

My real pet peeve is people who block the intersection because they couldn't fit through. I always wonder, what if I just helpfully nudge him out of the way... he'd thank me right?

[shifuimam]

Best ever was when I was walking in downtown Indianapolis to my then-job at Starbucks. I saw a woman tear around a left turn and nearly hit a guy who was legally crossing the street. He slammed his briefcase into the side of her minivan, swore loudly at her...and she stopped in the middle of the street, got out of her car, and ran back toward him screaming. It was ridiculous.

People are stupid, be it on foot, bike, car, or bulldozer.

[goMac]

I've seen a few bikes riding on the wrong side of the road here in Portland. I love making right turns onto roads only to be headed straight into an oncoming bicycle.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Seattle has been putting more and more automated cameras up to ticket red light runners. Hopefully it will catch on. I hear it raises quite a lot of money too.

I've read that they don't increase intersection safety but actually increase rear-end accidents as people slam on the brakes to avoid tickets.

[lexapro]

Yesterday I saw a guy on a bike riding on the sidewalk and he rode past 2 signs which said, "No bikes on the sidewalk" and these paintings on the sidewalk of a bike with a circle and line through it.

Guess he didn't care.

Sometimes when I am walking down the sidewalk and see a bike coming at me I stand in their way. If they say something I tell them I am on the sidewalk, not the sideride.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Seattle has been putting more and more automated cameras up to ticket red light runners. Hopefully it will catch on. I hear it raises quite a lot of money too. I got caught by one once, and it sure changed my driving habits.

My real pet peeve is people who block the intersection because they couldn't fit through. I always wonder, what if I just helpfully nudge him out of the way... he'd thank me right?

I'm pretty sure there have been studies that show that red light cameras actually increase the incidence of accidents at intersections. Also, because they're such great revenue generators, they will often times lead to cities shortening the length of yellow lights to purposefully increase the number of people running red lights and therefore cash flow.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by lexapro 

Yesterday I saw a guy on a bike riding on the sidewalk and he rode past 2 signs which said, "No bikes on the sidewalk" and these paintings on the sidewalk of a bike with a circle and line through it.

Guess he didn't care.

Sometimes when I am walking down the sidewalk and see a bike coming at me I stand in their way. If they say something I tell them I am on the sidewalk, not the sideride.

Oh, I'll agree with you there. I hate dodging people who ride their bicycle on the sidewalk. If you are over 12 years old, you need to be riding in the street, and on the correct side. To do otherwise is extremely dangerous.

The thing that is really annoying about it is that some of these sidewalk riders may be doing so because some Doofy type Hummer driver who thinks he/she owns the road yelled "SIDEWALK!!" at them.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

The thing that is really annoying about it is that some of these sidewalk riders may be doing so because some Doofy type Hummer driver who thinks he/she owns the road yelled "SIDEWALK!!" at them.

Well, if the vast majority of cyclists didn't act like complete retards, were required to take a test and carry insurance, perhaps motorists would be more pleasant towards them.

Oh, and it's a pavement, not a sidewalk.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Oh, I'll agree with you there. I hate dodging people who ride their bicycle on the sidewalk. If you are over 12 years old, you need to be riding in the street, and on the correct side. To do otherwise is extremely dangerous.

There is a time when the street is not an option - take a college campus. Everything is sidewalk, so a bike can't just get on the street. Ideally, a biker should ride so that pedestrians don't have to alter the way they walk. Slow down, go around, or get onto the grass when necessary. I have so many bicyclists bust past me almost hitting people when I'm riding my bike that it's ridiculous. I can make it from one corner of campus to the other in ten minutes going at a reasonable pace and not putting anyone in danger - there's no need to ride like some people do.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I've seen a few bikes riding on the wrong side of the road here in Portland. I love making right turns onto roads only to be headed straight into an oncoming bicycle.

I don't know why this happens so often in the US. Never seen it in Europe.

Some idiot must be teaching kids that riding AGAINST the traffic is smart

-t

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

There is a time when the street is not an option - take a college campus. Everything is sidewalk, so a bike can't just get on the street.

Those aren't sidewalks. A sidewalk is on the side of a street. If there is no street, there's nothing for it to be beside, and it's just a campus path. Those tend to be wider to allow for more varied traffic and to make it a bit safer for bicycles and pedestrians to coexist. When riding on-campus where there is no street, one should be courteous, of course - ride slowly if there are people around, and announce "on your left" when passing.

[paul w]

This is nonsense. The same applies to drivers, cyclists and pedestrians. I've have more near-heart attacks from cars veering into me when I'm in a bike lane or have the right of way and by pedestrians lurching out into the street in front of me than I've seen other cyclists cause by a huge margin.

I'm personally an advocate of safety - I wear a helmet, have light and stick to the bike lanes where they exist. I respect traffic laws - though I'll run red lights where there's neither traffic nor pedestrians. And yet I still get treated like crap all the time. WTF?

[brassplayersrock²]

You get crap all the time due to the type of bicyclist that I encountered last night. Douches like him give all bicyclists bad raps. Spitting in ones face after almost running over the person is probably the most assholish thing to do.

[paul w]

You're right. That was agressive assholish stuff. I just don't see why you think it's something that has to do with people who ride bikes. I will say that even if cyclists try to obey all the traffic rules and avoid spitting in peoples' faces they still get screwed with by motorists and pedestrians. Here that is. I've spent a lot of time biking in other countries where people have more of a live and let live attitude.

The attitude towards and amongst cyclists is rather aggressive stateside. I wish we could all coexist peacefully.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, if the vast majority of cyclists didn't act like complete retards, were required to take a test and carry insurance, perhaps motorists would be more pleasant towards them.

Oh, and it's a pavement, not a sidewalk.

The intellectually challenged community would take offense at that, being as how most of them are far less aggressive and inconsiderate than those two-wheeled jerks you're talking about.

[torsoboy]

I can't stand people riding their bikes on the road. I drives me crazy. Especially the ones that coast down the middle of the lane 10-15 mph under the speed limit (which is most of them that ride on the road). In my opinion they should all be on the sidewalk or on the very outermost edge of the road and should have no impact on people in cars. I have never yelled "SIDEWALK!" at anyone, but I think it every time.

I ride my bike places, and for the most part I stay on the sidewalks. If people are on the sidewalk (which is very rare) I slow down to a crawl until I get past them. When I come to a street or a driveway I take it upon myself to make sure no cars are coming... I would never rely on cars noticing me. People on bikes are the same as pedestrians in my opinion.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

I was crossing the street with a 4 way stop. I'm in the crosswalk and zooms past me is a guy on a bike, literally a couple of inches in front of me. I tap him on his left shoulder as he passes. Not a shove, not a push, a simple tap. He stops an gets off his bike an comes back, as I'm about to get on the sidewalk, I see him coming to me an I tell him that it's called a stop sign for a reason, he spits in my face, an rides off laughing.

You assaulted him first. Yes, what you did is assault. Was it a loogie?

[brassplayersrock²]

he almost ****in ran into me with no regard to my safety, of course i tapped him on the shoulder as a "watch it"

[Atomic Rooster]

When I ride my bike I ride whatever way I freakin' like. I tried obeying the rules but I got tired of assholes in cars that drive half stunned most of the time. I value my life. I only have one and I don't wanna die good looking. I want to die old and shriveled with dementia thanx. Cities weren't designed for bicycles in N. Merika so I make the rules up as I go. To bad for the whiners.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

I can't stand people riding their bikes on the road. I drives me crazy. Especially the ones that coast down the middle of the lane 10-15 mph under the speed limit (which is most of them that ride on the road). In my opinion they should all be on the sidewalk or on the very outermost edge of the road and should have no impact on people in cars. I have never yelled "SIDEWALK!" at anyone, but I think it every time.

I ride my bike places, and for the most part I stay on the sidewalks. If people are on the sidewalk (which is very rare) I slow down to a crawl until I get past them. When I come to a street or a driveway I take it upon myself to make sure no cars are coming... I would never rely on cars noticing me. People on bikes are the same as pedestrians in my opinion.

Yes, well that is ILLEGAL in most places. Around where I am the maximum fine is $250, but you'll usually get $75 or so. And they do enforce it. In fact, the city considers it sufficiently important that they occasionally post people at the entrances to bicycle paths (they call them "bicycle ambassadors") warning people leaving the path that they must ride in the street and not the sidewalk.

Just because YOU think bicycles are pedestrians does not make it so. Bicycles are VEHICLES, just like cars, and their place is on the road, NOT ON THE SIDEWALK.

Just because YOU think it is safe to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk does not make it so. It is DANGEROUS and this is recognized by most sane people, and by the law in many places.

You will be hard pressed to find any city that requires bicycles to be on the sidewalk. However, it is quite easy to find cities with laws stating the opposite - that you must ride in the street, unless there is a bike lane or a designated bicycle path, in which case you must use that. If YOU think this is inappropriate, then you can lobby your local city officials to change it, but I doubt you'll get very far since there are VERY GOOD REASONS for these laws, and they keep EVERYONE safer. If you think you own the road, then TOUGH, because pretty much NO LAWS are on your side.

You can think that bicycles should be on the sidewalk all you want - but it will always be just as absurd as if I decide that cars belong on the sidewalk, because that is exactly as inappropriate, and is (hopefully) not likely to cause anyone to change their behavior. And if I have to dodge a cyclist when walking on the sidewalk, I will tell them to ride in the street, and whaddya know, I'll actually be RIGHT.

[brassplayersrock²]

and it's people like you who ride bikes the way you do that give the good bike riders a bad rap. bravo

[funkboy]

How did you tap him on the left shoulder? That means either he was riding the wrong way (so he was in the wrong) or you were already in the street? Seems strange...
It is important for bicyclists to adhere to the rules of the road, though.
The US needs to be more bicycle friendly...

[brassplayersrock²]

one way streets around here, and in my original post, I stated that I was in the cross walk.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

and it's people like you who ride bikes the way you do that give the good bike riders a bad rap. bravo

I'm assuming that was directed at Atomic Rooster and not me? If so, I agree. If not, then...........................

[brassplayersrock²]

You assume correctly.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

People on bikes are the same as pedestrians in my opinion.

Your opinion is diametrically opposed to the law.

[Atomic Rooster]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

we responded at the same time. it was meant for ar

When I'm walking I'm in a different train of defensive thought. I've almost been killed by anything on wheels.

The reason I lol'd at you is because you only tapped him. I would have kinda accidently checked him so he'd go down hard.

By the way, when I ride my bike I avoid pedestrians. That's my number one rule. My little rant was for four wheel vehicles with stunned drivers. I've been doored and cut off too many times.

[brassplayersrock²]

Alrighty, sorry for being a better man then you. He had the tap coming, me getting spat on I didn't deserve. oh, and for what's it's worth, your post sounded like you enjoyed the fact I got spat on.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Yes, well that is ILLEGAL in most places. Around where I am the maximum fine is $250, but you'll usually get $75 or so. And they do enforce it. In fact, the city considers it sufficiently important that they occasionally post people at the entrances to bicycle paths (they call them "bicycle ambassadors") warning people leaving the path that they must ride in the street and not the sidewalk.

We live in different places obviously. We don't have bicycle ambassadors, or signs saying not to ride on the sidewalks. Maybe one thing that bugs me most is that we have paved biking/walking paths (including speed limits, stop signs, etc.) next to most all of the major roads, yet some bicyclists consider themselves too high and mighty to be using them instead of the road.

Based on our area having paths specifically built for bikers AND walkers to share, you might see where my view on them being the same as pedestrians comes from.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Just because YOU think bicycles are pedestrians does not make it so. Bicycles are VEHICLES, just like cars, and their place is on the road, NOT ON THE SIDEWALK.

So are wheelchairs, but I don't expect to see them on the road. My "opinion" (as you so kindly pointed out multiple times) is that they should not be on the road with cars, and that only a fool would disagree with me.

Also, bicycles cannot be on the highways, which goes to show that they are not "VEHICLES, just like cars." Also, where are their insurance requirements? Where is the bicycle registration division? Etc.

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Just because YOU think it is safe to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk does not make it so. It is DANGEROUS and this is recognized by most sane people, and by the law in many places.

I don't think that my thoughts about this are unique, otherwise there wouldn't be discussions like this.

I'm glad that you like to ride your bike so much, but if you want to do it, stay off of the road, or go the speed limit and obey all of the rules.

Edit: My feelings about this would probably be different if I lived in an area where people used the sidewalks much. In places like Key West, for example, it would be crazy to try to ride your bikes on the sidewalks.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

By the way, when I ride my bike I avoid pedestrians. That's my number one rule.

Well what's the problem with that? Here it is: sometimes you avoid pedestrians, but pedestrians seek you out. You see, unlike the road, there are no rules on the sidewalk, and pedestrians can do pretty much whatever they want. As a result, they behave erratically, especially when there are children involved. You can be avoiding a child very well, and he might see something shiny and run right in front of you before you can react, and you'll hit him. And whose fault will it be? YOURS, BECAUSE YOU WERE RIDING ON THE $@#%ING SIDEWALK.

The thing about the road is that the road has rules. And the rules, when followed, make the actions of everyone on the road predictable, which leads to fewer accidents. Which makes irresponsible cyclists such as yourself, and the approximately 98% of motorists who ignore the road rules, including ones like torsoboy who don't even know what the road rules are, a menace to the safety of everyone on the road.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

[snip] Which makes irresponsible cyclists such as yourself, and the approximately 98% of motorists who ignore the road rules, including ones like torsoboy who don't even know what the road rules are, a menace to the safety of everyone on the road.

Did you know that rules vary from state to state, country to country, and city to city? I don't think you can claim to know the rules of the road everywhere.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

We live in different places obviously. We don't have bicycle ambassadors, or signs saying not to ride on the sidewalks.

Whether or not there are signs is not the only indication of what the rules are. There aren't any signs saying "no robbing the bank", but that doesn't mean I've got carte blanche to do it. Look up the city code for your area to be sure. And in the case that your city is lax enough not to have a law about this, it is still in extremely poor form to ride on the sidewalk.

Maybe one thing that bugs me most is that we have paved biking/walking paths (including speed limits, stop signs, etc.) next to most all of the major roads, yet some bicyclists consider themselves too high and mighty to be using them instead of the road.

Well if it is a designated bike path, that is an exception, as I've already stated in a previous post. If there is such a path, designated by signs, then bikes should use it. However, if there is not a designated place for bikes, such as a bike lane or a bike path, then bicycles belong in the road. A standard sidewalk is not an acceptable place to ride a bike.

Based on our area having paths specifically built for bikers AND walkers to share, you might see where my view on them being the same as pedestrians comes from.

Ignorance? Stupidity?

So are wheelchairs, but I don't expect to see them on the road. My "opinion" (as you so kindly pointed out multiple times) is that they should not be on the road with cars, and that only a fool would disagree with me.

Or the law.

Also, bicycles cannot be on the highways, which goes to show that they are not "VEHICLES, just like cars."

Depends on the state. Where I live, bicycles are allowed on any road except for interstate highways and roads that have signs prohibiting bicycles. Normal highways are fine, as long as they don't have the aforementioned sign.

And yes, they are considered vehicles. Not pedestrians.

I don't think that my thoughts about this are unique, otherwise there wouldn't be discussions like this.

Thoughts that we never landed on the moon or that the earth is 6000 years old are not unique either. Doesn't make them valid.

I'm glad that you like to ride your bike so much, but if you want to do it, stay off of the road, or go the speed limit and obey all of the rules.

The part I bolded conflicts with the part I italicized.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Did you know that rules vary from state to state, country to country, and city to city? I don't think you can claim to know the rules of the road everywhere.

I would be very surprised if you could show me any place where the law said that bicycles must ride on the sidewalk (not bike lanes or designated bike paths).

[torsoboy]

Fine, I concede to all of your points. Yet I still hate bikes riding on the road for some reason.

[CharlesS]

And I hate your Hummer riding on the road for some reason, and would very much enjoy to see it melted down for scrap metal. Unfortunately, it's an imperfect world, so we'll just have to deal with each other.