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orcinus · Mar 30, 2004, 07:53 PM

Long time ago in a galaxy far fa....
Er. No. That's not it. Let's try again:

Some time ago, before the whole mockup contest, i started working on an idea for a glossy black / textured graphite theme and, well, i was just too lazy. Too lazy to keep on working on it and too lazy to finish it in time for the contest. I try to keep myself convinced that, me being completely anonimous in Mac skinning comunity and people being sick of stripes (that i, for some reason, happen to like), it wouldn't do good if i submitted it.

Anywho, aching for some feedback and trying to make sure noone accuses me of stealing bits and pieces once mythical Omega gets out

(just kidding), I decided to post it here for public scrutiny:

So... that would be it so far. Still has a looong way to go (scroll tracks will probably be the first thing to go - they look completely off), but this would be the general idea. Hope at least someone will like it.

Orcinus

NOTICE1: Does not contain actual squares.
NOTICE2: May contain nuts.

brazil · Mar 30, 2004, 07:56 PM

That looks freakin' awesome . I really do hope ya' bring that one to the party for us . Thanks for givin' us a look-see .

Mighty_Mike_T · Mar 30, 2004, 07:58 PM

Very nice. Looks a bit like some of the XIAP themes, but that probably can't be helped. I like the subtle "ridges" in the background of the title bar.

orcinus · Mar 30, 2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Mighty_Mike_T:
Looks a bit like some of the XIAP themes, but that probably can't be helped.

Ah, well... I should've seen it coming. If you're a complete unknown in a community you're BOUND to end up being seen as a complete beginner and accused of making lookalikes of existing themes. It just had to happen.

Personally, i fail to see any similarity to any XiAP themes whatsoever. Which one in particular were you aiming at? Spidey?

) Sorry, couldn't help it.
It does use the same basic motive (black glass / quasi metal) as Xi-Tibook2, i guess, but that's where the similarities end, IMHO.

Orcinus

Jaos · Mar 30, 2004, 08:14 PM

Looks very nice

Caesar2099 · Mar 30, 2004, 08:18 PM

No, he just meant the style is similar to XiAP, but that kind of thing is inevitable. Most themes with dark shiny glass look similar, it just happens that way. That's why some of us make outrageously different themes (

)

Anyway, the theme looks great so far!

phillryu · Mar 30, 2004, 08:23 PM

I love it!

mbeauche · Mar 30, 2004, 08:35 PM

very nice - i have no criticism, i want this theme

just make sure the contrast of each bit of it actually works

Holigen · Mar 30, 2004, 08:45 PM

Very nice, however I dont know how functional a theme without scroll arrows would be...

kwyjiboy · Mar 30, 2004, 08:58 PM

WOW. Please make this theme.

mac15 · Mar 30, 2004, 09:04 PM

Looking damn awesome! I hope your brave enough to step into themepark

bluevertical · Mar 30, 2004, 09:21 PM

awesome! would love to use it.

justinp · Mar 30, 2004, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Holigen:
Very nice, however I dont know how functional a theme without scroll arrows would be...

Very functional?

Lateralus · Mar 30, 2004, 09:31 PM

That looks excellent.

Yes, please make it.

deej5871 · Mar 30, 2004, 09:38 PM

I love it..

Except that the X-+ buttons don't look completely round to me.. They look suddenly cut off at the bottom. Is it supposed to be like that? That's the only thing I see as being a problem for me.

Wait, just looked closer and I see why it is like that..However I do still think that needs to be changed just a tad..

Sage · Mar 30, 2004, 10:58 PM

I'll ditto the "flat-butted widgets" issue. Otherwise, bravo! I especially love how you actually made different horizontal/vertical scrollbars instead of just making one and flipping it.

mac15 · Mar 30, 2004, 11:46 PM

I think the titlebar is my favourite element. Are you going to build this one yourself?

Mike S. · Mar 31, 2004, 12:09 AM

That's a thing of beauty.

If you can create an entire theme with the level of consistency and quality then I think you would be a popular fellow around here.

OwlBoy · Mar 31, 2004, 02:41 AM

High Techy!

-Owl

Patcarla · Mar 31, 2004, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by orcinus:
Ah, well... I should've seen it coming. If you're a complete unknown in a community you're BOUND to end up being seen as a complete beginner and accused of making lookalikes of existing themes. It just had to happen.

Personally, i fail to see any similarity to any XiAP themes whatsoever. Which one in particular were you aiming at? Spidey? ) Sorry, couldn't help it.
It does use the same basic motive (black glass / quasi metal) as Xi-Tibook2, i guess, but that's where the similarities end, IMHO.

Orcinus

Agreed. Your theme looks different from my ones. No problem with that

And really nice theme by the way.

FB Eye · Mar 31, 2004, 11:07 AM

Go for it!!!

orcinus · Mar 31, 2004, 04:48 PM

Thanx for the words of encouragment, everyone!

I wasn't 100% sure about going through with this theme idea, but this many posts really motivated me.

To answer the questions:
- yes, i plan on building this one myself
- yes, i'm brave enough to step into themepark -> and have done so already (just with the titlebar - i couldn't resist testing how it'd look on a window

)
- yes, i noticed the flat-but widgets, but thought it could be tolerated.

I'm happy to announce that i resolved the widget issue succesifully although not the easy way. No matter what you do, you can't force Photoshop to make the hilite look any different on an even no. of pixels except by "throttling" the opacity down and that kills the contrastyness of the whole thing. At first, i thought the culprit were the "scan lines" under the widgets, but they aren't. Anywho, i fixed the damned thing the old fashion way - by manual pixel pushing (which isn't as easy as it sounds because you have to manually edit the alpha too).

I also fixed the horizontal scroll thumb (it was missing the "inner" hilight at the bottom) and worked some more on the button (it isn't quite consistent with the title bar style and i accidentally pushed it off a bit towards the yellow part of the spectre).

And, finally, i bumped into my first implementation problem. The outline. OS X paints some 1px shadowing around the top of the window (titlebar) that acts like an outline, especially on light backgrounds. I did know that before i started working on the theme, but i didn't know how'd that play along with my inner shadow / manually darkened outline thingy around the titlebar. Unfortunately, it turns out they look like almost the same color on most backgrounds so the poor titlebar gets a 2px outline which seems too thick and kinda awkward. It kills the crispyness of the theme.
Just BTW, i noticed i'm not the only one with that problem - fear p2 (which i really like and use on daily basis, btw) has the same thing going on. Any ideas how to resolve this issue the easy way? Or should i start redoing the titlebar manually?

BTW, while i was trying out the titlebar in shapeshifter, i noticed that it actually works out quite nicely with Aqua. Does that mean i'm on the right track?

Orcinus

orcinus · Mar 31, 2004, 06:58 PM

Kkkkay... Here's what it looks like so far (just the titlebar) in real use:

The left part is after fixing the outline thingy a bit (it's darker so it should stand out better from the Aqua shadow/outline on most backgrounds), while the right part is before the fix. I'm not sure how much you'll be able to discern from the screenshot, but if you look closely enough you should notice that the left part looks sharp and the right one smudgy and icky.

Also, i noticed that there's something screwy going on with the Aqua shadow to the left and right of the titlebar. It can't be seen on my screenshot, but on bright bg's the shadow appears to be "cut off" at the top. I've noticed the same behavior on other themes before, so i'm willing to bet it's a shapeshifter/aqua issue.

I think i should go back to thinking up the widgets now (after a brief themepark excursion).

Orcinus

PS: I think i like the way that titlebar fits into Aqua enough to keep it as an active skin on my powerbook for a while

Nice and contrasty... mmmm...

*EDIT* 'Eck! I just noticed that the distance from left widgets and the black glo(/a)ss area doesn't appear to be the same as the distance from toolbar widget and the black gloss. And that titlebar text overlaps with the light areas if you make the window really small. Dang! That one doesn't look resolvable.

mac15 · Mar 31, 2004, 07:07 PM

Looking good, aqua makes the perfect backdrop for this theme. Since it takes on the same dimensions. Good luck with your theme!

orcinus · Mar 31, 2004, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by mac15:
Looking good, aqua makes the perfect backdrop for this theme. Since it takes on the same dimensions. Good luck with your theme!

Huh? Backdrop? Hope you didn't mean that i've pasted my titlebar over an Aqua screenshot by this. (this is an actual, non-doctored screenshot)

Orcinus

PS: Please excuse any current/future misunderstandings and spelling/gramatics/vocab errors on my side - English isn't my native language. And i hope i'm not boring you all to death with my posts.

deej5871 · Mar 31, 2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by orcinus:
Huh? Backdrop? Hope you didn't mean that i've pasted my titlebar over an Aqua screenshot by this. (this is an actual, non-doctored screenshot)

Orcinus

PS: Please excuse any current/future misunderstandings and spelling/gramatics/vocab errors on my side - English isn't my native language. And i hope i'm not boring you all to death with my posts.

I love it when people post a lot to update us. I feel the need to be "in the know" so your posts feed my hunger. Keep posting and constructing (the theme that is).

lenox · Apr 1, 2004, 12:46 PM

I think the theme looks excellent! Can't wait to see how it turns out!

dr. zoidberg · Apr 1, 2004, 12:52 PM

very, very nice!! really!

keep this baby going, definitely.

Dave-o� · Apr 1, 2004, 05:51 PM

Where the heck is today's update for this theme??? GEEEZZZZzzzzz.....

orcinus · Apr 1, 2004, 09:20 PM

Oh. Heh heh heh...
I was busy fixing some Wintel boxes at work and one at home so i couldn't work on the theme

Here's the fresh batch of screenies - i modified some stuff and made the semaphore "glyphs" more glowy. This is what they look like now:

Normal state

Mouse-over state

Unsaved document state (never happens in Finder so this one is a composite from Photoshop so i can show you all 3 on the same example window)

Hope you'll like 'em. I find them yummy

Especially the look of the titlebar with the red ("unsaved") X. Looks kinda like a miniature HAL 9000

Orcinus

PS: The glow isn't too bright now, i hope? The minus seems a bit too big, now that i look at it from a distance. I should probably fix that. Any comments/suggestions are welcome.

mac15 · Apr 1, 2004, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by orcinus:
Huh? Backdrop? Hope you didn't mean that i've pasted my titlebar over an Aqua screenshot by this. (this is an actual, non-doctored screenshot)

Orcinus

PS: Please excuse any current/future misunderstandings and spelling/gramatics/vocab errors on my side - English isn't my native language. And i hope i'm not boring you all to death with my posts.

I didn't mean that at all, I meant aqua is roughly the same shape as your theme. Thats all

orcinus · Apr 2, 2004, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by mac15:
I didn't mean that at all, I meant aqua is roughly the same shape as your theme. Thats all

Oh. Sorry then and thanx.
Just BTW, does anyone think that using a dot instead of X could be confusing for people? I was using my titlebar for a day now and i get the impression that once you see the red dot and make the necessary cognitive connections, it seems pretty straightforward. But, then again, i made it, hence i'm already aware that dot doesn't mean what it did in Aqua, so i can't be objective. Any thoughts? Could this prove to be a future usability issue with the theme?

Orcinus

Dave-o� · Apr 2, 2004, 09:35 AM

O, as long as you don't change the order of the buttons, like you could, it doesn't matter what you put in them.. Heck you could put a fish head in the button for all i care... Great work and thanks for the screenies... Made my day...

You really should stop trying to fix things that are always going to be broke and start working more on things you love.

siliconwarrior · Apr 4, 2004, 09:49 AM

I love the way this theme is looking, keep up the good work!

Mighty_Mike_T · Apr 4, 2004, 06:07 PM

Choosing my words carefully, to avoid any unintended offense (like last time)...

I think (and have always thought) the theme looks great.

I have one question, though: in the latest bunch of screenshots, the red (indicating an unsaved document) is very subtle. Is this just a problem with the picture, or is it really that light? Is there a way to make the red a little bit more noticeable?

Also, the screenshots have an aqua scrollbar "lozenge". I hope you haven't eliminated the original one from your first screenshot...

orcinus · Apr 4, 2004, 07:36 PM

Choosing my words carefully, to avoid any unintended offense (like last time)...

Sorry about that. I just have a bad habit of misinterpreting other people's posts when i'm online late (3am or so).

I have one question, though: in the latest bunch of screenshots, the red (indicating an unsaved document) is very subtle. Is this just a problem with the picture, or is it really that light? Is there a way to make the red a little bit more noticeable?

It wasn't an issue. It's completely on purpose. Everything, including other white LED-like lights in the widgets is blue-hued so the faint red should be very discernible. From using the titlebars past few days, i can indeed confirm that the red unsaved widget, although very subtle, is quite noticable. Making it more saturated would mean making it less bright and that would make it look rather awkward in context. (then again, can't be sure how the screenshots look on your screen - they do have an embedded color profile, but...)

Also, the screenshots have an aqua scrollbar "lozenge". I hope you haven't eliminated the original one from your first screenshot...

I haven't "implemented" the scroll widgets yet in those shots. I've put them in yesterday, however and am trying to resolve some issues (like the fact that ends "overlap" with the arrow widgets). I'm also trying to think of something good for the scrolltracks and arrows and am working on the cocoa toolbar (already done) and window background idea (can't batch up anything that'd look "balanced" enough with the dark titlebar / lighter toolbar).

On a sidenote, i spent the last two days rebuilding my Wintel machine (it deserved some attention after a looong time). It's all black and textured and utterly silent and blue LED-ed now

Fits nicely with the theme

Oh and one more thing i bumped into just now:

http://www.sgi.com/products/remarket.../overview.html

Hehehehehe

Orcinus

orcinus · Apr 7, 2004, 08:11 AM

I got a bit stuck with the push buttons, i'm afraid. Looks like i bumped into my first opportunity to compromise.
Here are the problems:
- push button's pressed state is used as the first keyframe for the "default button" animation
- if you press any other button in a window, the animated "default button" reverts to the "normal" state while the mouse button is down

All that's perfectly ok for aqua and "traditional" button designs (sinking down when pressed) but works awkward with what i had in mind with this theme. The initial idea was to make the buttons unlit in normal state, with one kind of LED lights lighting up when you press them and another kind pulsing when they're in default state. Unfortunately, that doesn't work out because of problem #1. No problem, then - let's use the opposite variant: buttons have one kind of LEDs lit when they're normal, they blank out when you click on them and happily pulsate when they're default. However, problem #2 stumps that one (default button blinks to other type of LEDs when you click any other button in the window - which isn't that bad but can just look distracting sometimes).

Any ideas? Should i stick with the later solution or dump the "idle state" LEDs altogether and use the usual sink/rise scheme?

Orcinus

PS: I'll post some screenshots of the buttons a bit later.

Dave-o� · Apr 7, 2004, 08:24 AM

O, I will wait for your screen shots before commenting on which direction would be best for the theme. There might be another work around, but let's wait for some images.

ryaxnb · Apr 7, 2004, 07:12 PM

Pretty good!

orcinus · Apr 8, 2004, 08:19 AM

Ok... Here's the deal...

(Normal state)

(Mousedown state)

(Default button state)

The original idea was to use Mousedown as Normal and vice versa, but that's impossible to implement. The scheme shown above is an intermediate compromise, while right now i'm playing with a variant that doesn't use red LEDs at all (plain button for normal state, button with blue LEDs for pressed state and pulsating blue LEDs for default). The latter looks cleanest by far IMHO, but i kinda dislike the idea of ditching the red elements (they break the monotony of the would be theme).

Orcinus

orcinus · Apr 8, 2004, 08:34 AM

...with blue LEDs for pressed state and pulsating blue LEDs for default...

...meaning this:

Orcinus

PS: Almost forgot... If anyone happens to steal the idea, i'll personally bite their nose(s) off

FB Eye · Apr 8, 2004, 08:46 AM

Just awesome

Dave-o� · Apr 8, 2004, 11:29 AM

O,
I like the 2nd example the best, the curve of the LED and color make it stand out well without being too in your face. I also enjoy the rate at which the LEDs fade in and out.. Great work and it looks like you're making some serious progress on Onyx2.

Congrats!

Forgo to cover my nose

kovacs · Apr 8, 2004, 01:02 PM

Oh man, this theme is gonna be really cool when it's finished

Sage · Apr 8, 2004, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by orcinus:
PS: Almost forgot... If anyone happens to steal the idea, i'll personally bite their nose(s) off

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not the first to use that effect... Izawa was, in his DSX theme Type A.

(Sorry it's crappy, but I couldn't be arsed to make it smoother)

orcinus · Apr 8, 2004, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Sage:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not the first to use that effect...

Oh... Well in that case, i apologize and promptly subject my own nose to any/all biting off

Although i really like a lot Izawa's themes, they don't look to me (just MHO) like something i'd use on daily basis so i never downloaded/used any of them and, therefore, never saw his default button fx.

Orcinus

NetworkShadow · Apr 8, 2004, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by Sage:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not the first to use that effect... Izawa was, in his DSX theme Type A.

(Sorry it's crappy, but I couldn't be arsed to make it smoother)

No big deal... It's different enough.

That looks much better anyway.

Patcarla · Apr 9, 2004, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by NetworkShadow:
No big deal... It's different enough.

That looks much better anyway.

Agreed.

Dave-o� · Apr 13, 2004, 08:31 AM

So Orcinus how are things progressing on the theme? Been several days without an update from you...

orcinus · Apr 13, 2004, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Dave-o�:
So Orcinus how are things progressing on the theme? Been several days without an update from you...

Sorry about that

I'm just extremely busy IRL so i couldn't work on the theme as much as i'd like. *progress report ahead* I did, however, identify a minor issue on the push button design and fixed it (i made the caps 1px narrower because they can look bunched up with some text lengths otherwise - and they look a bit sleeker this way). I also did two variants of the progress bar and am trying to decide between them (i'll post the shots soon if anyone's interested) and tried to think up a scroll track / arrows that would fit the theme (don't have much success in that department yet).

cheers,
Orcinus