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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Penryn Mac mini launched

Penryn Mac mini launched (Page 2)
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Dakar V
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Mar 4, 2009, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Apple has just uploaded the user manual. RAM is not a user-replaceable part. In fact nothing is.

Do Not Make Repairs Yourself
Your Mac mini doesn’t have any user-serviceable parts. Do not attempt to open your Mac mini. If your Mac mini needs service, consult the service and support information that came with your computer for instructions about how to contact an Apple Authorized Service Provider or Apple for service.
If you open your Mac mini or install items, you risk damaging your equipment, and such damage isn’t covered by the limited warranty on your Mac mini.


So in other words, if you break anything while attempting to open your Mac mini or adding memory, you're screwed. OTOH if you add memory and all goes well, you shouldn't get into any trouble.

Some free advice though: keep the stock memory around. If you have to send your Mac mini in you'll want to put the stock memory in there first. You don't want to give Apple an excuse for not fixing your Mac ("it's the third-party memory's fault") or for disposing your memory.
Yeah, they don't want to make the thing too attractive.

I had hoped for more ease regarding those things, but I'll probably pick one up anyway.
     
ort888
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Mar 4, 2009, 12:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
I agree, faster cpu (in the low end model), larger max memory, larger hard drive, more usb ports, faster GPU and dual display support. This is just a small update
So why didn't they do anything sooner? 18 months with the exact same product is unheard of in the modern Apple era.

I'm not saying the Mini sucks, but it's not like they did anything to make it really attractive. They pretty much just took it from absolutely terrible to about what you would expect.

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Dakar V
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Mar 4, 2009, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
it's not like they did anything to make it really attractive.
I think it's been fairly obvious Apple considers this the red headed step child of the line. If they do improve it too much it's going to outstrip a good deal of their more profitable line.
     
ort888
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Mar 4, 2009, 12:52 PM
 
Remember when you could get a full-featured and expandable pro tower for $1,600 bucks?

Those were the days.

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Maflynn
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
So why didn't they do anything sooner? 18 months with the exact same product is unheard of in the modern Apple era.

I'm not saying the Mini sucks, but it's not like they did anything to make it really attractive. They pretty much just took it from absolutely terrible to about what you would expect.
I have no idea but you're correct they should have done this sooner. That doesn't mean that the current update is a minor one as you purported it to be. Regardless, I have low expectations with apple spending a lot of time and energy designing/updating the mini given the market they're shooting for on this puppy.
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ort888
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:16 PM
 
They need to focus on getting that price down.

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Maflynn
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:20 PM
 
Agreed, I think that can be said for their entire line, but they've strayed away from that method and the current strategy has served them well. I do agree though, I'd like to have seen apple shave off a 100 bucks off of the mini. I cannot get one now, but I do hope to snag one by summer.
~Mike
     
Dakar V
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Mar 4, 2009, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
They need to focus on getting that price down.
I'm sure they consider that as bad as improving the specs further.
     
chichow
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Mar 4, 2009, 04:21 PM
 
The fanboys like me who have been waiting forever are going to buy it anyways at this price point.

After Apple gets that money, then they can go drop the price point.

Right now, its another 50 - 100 dollars that they have from me.
     
Dakar V
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Mar 4, 2009, 04:24 PM
 
At this point I feel like I should wait out the Snow Leopard announcement and see how much longer to get that thrown in as well.
and if I feel really a lucky, a refurb on top of that
     
Maflynn
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Mar 4, 2009, 04:31 PM
 
I want to buy one now, and I was planning snagging one when apple finally decided to update it. However life as it often does, threw me a curve and with the wife being laid off. Spending money on such extravagances must take a back seat to purchasing food, paying for the mortgage, etc.
~Mike
     
mattcass
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Mar 4, 2009, 10:38 PM
 
To be fair to the Mini, I priced out a Dell Studio Hybrid (in Canadian dollars).

An equivalent studio hybrid to the $949 Mini is priced at $769. That is a $180 difference. If the Mini's brand new graphics tops the Studio, then the premium price you are paying for a Mini is maybe $100. An extra 10-15% is pretty typical for any Apple product.

However, I was still expecting more.
     
redhot_nyc
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Mar 5, 2009, 12:13 AM
 
The Studio Hybrid is not much better than the previous generation Mini. The Intel G965/GMA 3100 is old and power hungry, and the fan is quite loud.

I'm not aware of any small PC's out right now that match the performance per watt of the Mac Mini, especially graphics performance.

The only thing that still concerns me is cooling. My G4 Mini's video card burnt out - just out of warranty - due to woefully inadequate cooling.
PowerBook 1400cs, Wallstreet, Lombard, MacBook Black
     
No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones
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Mar 5, 2009, 02:15 AM
 
Got mine (stock 1 GB model) today. Ran it stock just to check it out, and it was slug-slow. Put in a 7200 RPM drive and 4 GB RAM and of course it's a totally different experience. Clean installing from that slim DVD drive took almost an hour even on the upgraded hardware. Also, the new model seems to run hotter (going solely by feeling the case, not very scientific) than my previous 2 GHz C2D model.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 5, 2009, 04:01 AM
 
It's quite common for any slim enclosure to heat up during installation. If the Mac mini still feels significantly warmer after a day of regular use than an old mini that's when we'll know.

The new Mac mini's Penryn has actually lower power dissipation than the old Merom. And the chipset is less power-hungry as well. So from those specs the new Mac mini should not run any hotter.
     
JKT
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Mar 5, 2009, 06:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
No, actually RAM has never been a user-accessible part on the Mac mini. See my post above.

Two words: putty knife.
My mistake. However, it isn't difficult to do by any means, putty knife or not.

Fwiw, for anyone who does buy a mini, I highly recommend that you keep an eye out for dust bunnies inside it - from my experience they can get quite clogged up after a prolonged period and it will have a very negative effect on the cooling.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 5, 2009, 06:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
My mistake. However, it isn't difficult to do by any means, putty knife or not.
It's just that usually Apple makes user-accessible items easy to reach. The putty knife thing is because they never intended users to swap RAM themselves. I never really understood why though. How much bigger would the case have been if there was a screw in each corner people could easily unfasten?

Anyway, sure the putty knife thing isn't hard to do. But people need to be aware that it wasn't intended to be done by users and hence if you break something while cracking it open, Apple will hold you responsible.
     
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Mar 5, 2009, 08:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
It's just that usually Apple makes user-accessible items easy to reach. The putty knife thing is because they never intended users to swap RAM themselves. I never really understood why though. How much bigger would the case have been if there was a screw in each corner people could easily unfasten?
Size is not the reason there, I think. Clipping something in is a faster operation and therefore cheaper in the manufacturing stage. They don't INTENTIONALLY try to make things harder on you - they just can't be bothered to make it easy.

A tiny in lid in the bottom would not be too much to ask for, though.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Maflynn
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Mar 5, 2009, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
They don't INTENTIONALLY try to make things harder on you - they just can't be bothered to make it easy.
I disagree, I think they did make it INTENTIONALLY harder for the consumer to upgrade it. Otherwise they'll not sell the more expensive model. Plus by upgrading the hard drive/memory it possibly could cannibalize some iMac sales. There is justification for making it harder and that's because they don't want us in there. They could quite easily have added a hatch/door/latch to access the ram or the hard drive. Just look at how they engineered the MB[P].
~Mike
     
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Mar 5, 2009, 08:58 AM
 
The reason I don't think that they're doing it intentionally is how inconsistent they are. The iMac went from the impossible-to-upgrade original, to the doable-but-still-tricky slotloaders, to the almost-impossible G4, to the dead-easy G5, to the slightly harder iSight models and on to the almost-impossible-again aluminium models. You could do the same thing with the laptops - moving back and forth between easy and hard. If they wanted to make it hard, it would be hard all the time.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Mar 5, 2009, 10:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
If they wanted to make it hard, it would be hard all the time.
So many jokes I think my head might explode.
     
No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones
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Mar 5, 2009, 11:00 AM
 
Cracked mine open last night to upgrade the RAM and hard drive.

RAM was cake. The hard drive was irritating. The iFixit visual guide for the new mini has one crucial step you can actually leave out to save yourself headache and avoid what's probably the easiest damage you can cause.

At Step 12, http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Lo...ni-A1283/659/2 they show removing the 2-pin black wire from the connector board. I found this to be almost impossible, even with a plastic spudger. This wire connects from the main SATA connector board to a small breadboard with a tiny chip on it that is glued to the front edge of the hard drive. Carefully peeling off this tiny board allows the hard drive to be removed without having to pull out the 2-pin connector. You just reattach it to the new hard drive when done installing.

Not sure what the thing is, seems to maybe be a temperature sensor or something?
( Last edited by No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones; Mar 5, 2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Sentence structure)
     
Dakar V
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Mar 5, 2009, 11:15 AM
 
Setup

I’ve gathered results for the latest iMacs and Mac minis and compared them against previous generations (note that results for some hardware configurations aren’t available yet; I’ll update the post when they are available). Results were collected from the Geekbench Result Browser for Macs with standard processors (i.e., no processor upgrades or overclocked processors). I’ve reported the average overall score for each model and processor combination.

If you’re unfamiliar with Geekbench and how it measures performance, a score of 1000 is the score a Power Mac G5 @ 1.6GHz would receive. Higher scores are better. Also, Geekbench 2 only measures processor and memory performance which is why models with the same processors but different video cards have roughly the same score.


http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog/2009/...ks-early-2009/
     
No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones
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Mar 5, 2009, 11:25 AM
 
A bump, but not much. Then again, I trust no one expects leaps and bounds. Is there a benchmark for the new NVIDIA video chip?
Mac mini (2009) / 4 GB / 320 GB 7200 RPM / Dell 2407WFP
     
Dakar V
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Mar 5, 2009, 11:26 AM
 
This was the first result a misspelled google search found. I haven't dug around since posting this.
     
chichow
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Mar 5, 2009, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by hyteckit View Post
Didn't realize DDR3 1066MHz memory is so cheap now. I remember seeing at over $120 when the unibody Macbook Pro first came out not so long ago.

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../8566DDR3S4GP/

These should work on the Mac Mini according to specs.
Any other recommendations for other RAM dealers or other RAM? I like OWC but I am also in Illinois and don't want to pay tax and shipping.

All I need is the 1066Mhz ram or is it "special" like the RAM in the Mac Pros.

Sorry for the stoopid questions, but I am not sure really which to pick when going to a place like dealram.
     
No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones
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Mar 5, 2009, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by chichow View Post
Any other recommendations for other RAM dealers or other RAM? I like OWC but I am also in Illinois and don't want to pay tax and shipping.

All I need is the 1066Mhz ram or is it "special" like the RAM in the Mac Pros.

Sorry for the stoopid questions, but I am not sure really which to pick when going to a place like dealram.
I bought a 4 GB kit of Crucial 1066 DDR3 from NewEgg and it works flawlessly.
Mac mini (2009) / 4 GB / 320 GB 7200 RPM / Dell 2407WFP
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 5, 2009, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones View Post
A bump, but not much.
Nothing more was to be expected. You have an equal CPU clock. With the new Mac mini you lost 1 MB L2 cache, but got a faster FSB.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 5, 2009, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by chichow View Post
Any other recommendations for other RAM dealers or other RAM? I like OWC but I am also in Illinois and don't want to pay tax and shipping.

All I need is the 1066Mhz ram or is it "special" like the RAM in the Mac Pros.
You need nothing special. Just 204 pin 1066MHz DDR3 SO-DIMMs (PC3-8500).

Newegg has 4 GB Mushkin for $70 shipped ($60 after MIR actually). But I'd agree with the poster above that their 4 GB Crucial for $53 looks like a great deal.
     
Inappropriate Zen
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Mar 5, 2009, 02:35 PM
 
Bought one of these yesterday, my first Mac. Upgraded it using the iFixit breakdown guide and voila, a compact, speedy Mac.
     
chichow
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Mar 5, 2009, 03:44 PM
 
crucial mushkin...I'm too old ....

crucial it is!!!

thanks guys. appreciate it
( Last edited by chichow; Mar 5, 2009 at 04:04 PM. Reason: spelling)
     
driven
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Mar 5, 2009, 04:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Inappropriate Zen View Post
Bought one of these yesterday, my first Mac. Upgraded it using the iFixit breakdown guide and voila, a compact, speedy Mac.
What did you upgrade? RAM? HDD?
- MacBook Air M2 16GB / 512GB
- MacBook Pro 16" i9 2.4Ghz 32GB / 1TB
- MacBook Pro 15" i7 2.9Ghz 16GB / 512GB
- iMac i5 3.2Ghz 1TB
- G4 Cube 500Mhz / Shelf display unit / Museum display
     
Inappropriate Zen
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Mar 5, 2009, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
What did you upgrade? RAM? HDD?
Both. Like the poster above said, it was a real pain to get the hard drive out. The RAM was dirt simple.
     
driven
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Mar 5, 2009, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Inappropriate Zen View Post
Both. Like the poster above said, it was a real pain to get the hard drive out. The RAM was dirt simple.
In that case I might consider just using an external drive. What's the maximum RAM supported? 4G or 8G?

I miss the simplicity of the G4 Cube. That was super-simple to change out components.
- MacBook Air M2 16GB / 512GB
- MacBook Pro 16" i9 2.4Ghz 32GB / 1TB
- MacBook Pro 15" i7 2.9Ghz 16GB / 512GB
- iMac i5 3.2Ghz 1TB
- G4 Cube 500Mhz / Shelf display unit / Museum display
     
Mrjinglesusa
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Mar 5, 2009, 08:37 PM
 
Placed my order. Upgraded to the 2.26 GHz processor and 250 GB HD (don't want to deal with trying to upgrade that myself). Ordered the 4 GB RAM upgrade from Crucial.

I'm going to use this as a HTPC with an attached 1 TB HD to store my media. iTunes library will be shared from my iMac.

Will connect to my LCD TV with HDMI using a Mini-DVI to HDMI adapter and sound through my receiver with an optical adapter.

I'll probably use Plex as a front-end unless someone knows of a better HT Mac front end.
     
limping
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Mar 5, 2009, 10:15 PM
 
Probably a retarded question (not an expert here obv), but will the new Mini's play HD/Blue Ray movies easily ? And does that depend on how big is the screen or not? Thanks guys.
'In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom.' - J. G. Ballard
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 6, 2009, 03:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by driven View Post
What's the maximum RAM supported? 4G or 8G?
Officially 4 GB, but maybe 6 GB will work.

(waiting for guinea pig reports...)
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 6, 2009, 03:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by limping View Post
Probably a retarded question (not an expert here obv), but will the new Mini's play HD/Blue Ray movies easily ? And does that depend on how big is the screen or not? Thanks guys.
The Mac mini will not play BR. The built-in DVD player doesn't support BR playback. However, you can attach a BR drive and use it for data storage if you want.
     
thinkx
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Mar 7, 2009, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Logic would indicate that a SATA drive connected to a FW800 bridge and then to the Mac would not be faster than a SATA drive connected directly to the SATA controller on the motherboard.
How does the logic hold up if you connect a RAID external drive to the FireWire800? I'm planning on ganging a Drobo with the new MacMini for a document management server. The addition of FW800 on the mini is a very welcome update!
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 7, 2009, 12:21 PM
 
The Drobo will be the bottleneck regardless of the bus you attach it to.
     
mattcass
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Mar 8, 2009, 02:43 AM
 
How will this new Mac mini perform with Aperture? I've been running a Powerbook G4 for 5 years and I'm dying to use Aperature/Lightroom/iMovie. The G4 simply can't handle them so I never use them.

I'm super torn over a new Mac. I want to pick my own monitor, I want to easily upgrade the computer, and I want computing power that will last. I want a Mini Mac Pro.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 8, 2009, 05:17 AM
 
Aperture is a demanding app and needs a beefy GPU. That means either it's a high-end iMac, a MBP, or a MP. A mini is definitely not suitable for regular Aperture use.
     
txcrude
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Mar 8, 2009, 12:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar V View Post
What, no Blu-Ray?
None of the Macs have BD support which is pretty lame but I guess Apple is trying to push their iTunes store for HD content and if they let users play their own BD disks, there would be fewer iTunes HD sales.

Just like Steve Jobs dismissed the need for some people to create DVDs last year and the dismal features of iDVD.

TX
     
txcrude
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Mar 8, 2009, 12:46 PM
 
I can't believe Apple is charging $150 for upgrading the 120GB SATA to a 320GB when you can get a 7200 RPM 320 GB drive for about $80, and Apple probably pays $50-60.
Interestingly, upgrading the base mini to 2 GB and 320GB costs $25 more than the higher-end mini.
Lastly, has anyone noticed that Apply is now charging $19 for the Apple Remote that used to be included with the mini?
     
mattcass
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Mar 8, 2009, 07:45 PM
 
It's not just the Mini that you have to pay for the remote. It's all of them.
     
Maflynn
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Mar 8, 2009, 07:48 PM
 
Fine by me, I've never once used, wanted or needed the remote.
~Mike
     
poopsik
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Mar 8, 2009, 11:18 PM
 
Anyone know if it is possible to update the early intel MAC MINI to accept 3gb?

Thanks!
Poopsik
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 9, 2009, 05:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by poopsik View Post
Anyone know if it is possible to update the early intel MAC MINI to accept 3gb?
The Core 2 Duo Mac minis already support 3GB. The Core Duo and Core Solo Mac minis only support 2GB and there is no way to change anything about that.

This is the thread you should be looking at.
     
imdipped
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Mar 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
 
I hope it's firmware and someone comes up with a hack.

http://www.123macmini.com/news/story/1155.html

OWC offers 4GB memory kits for new Mac mini
Wednesday, March 4, 2008 - 3:06 PM EST
Posted by: Fran

OWC today announced they are offering 4GB memory kits for the new Mac mini. And for those of you thinking about giving 8GB a try, they sent us the following note:

Should advise people that Apple has definitely limited the new Mac mini to only being able to properly utilizing up to 4.0GB of memory. Whether it's a real chipset limitation or an EFI Apple set limitation - while the Mac mini will accept 2 x 4GB and show 8GB of memory installed, once you get applications that result in more than 4.0GB being utilized, the whole system slows down to a crawl. The MacBook Unibody 13" and Unibody Pro 15" has the same issue with more than 6.0GB installed - fine up to 6GB utilized, craps out when 8GB is installed as soon as the 6GB memory utilization point hit... At least in the case on the Unibody, doesn't seem to be an Apple set EFI limit as Apple officially supports up to 4GB in those MacBooks while up to 6GB does work and offer benefit.

Bottom line - don't try to put 8GB into a new Mac mini (or any Mac mini for that matter..) as it's a no go.

OWC also told us they will be posting memory and hard drive video installation guides on their Mac mini page as early as tomorrow.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 9, 2009, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by imdipped View Post
I hope it's firmware and someone comes up with a hack.

http://www.123macmini.com/news/story/1155.html
That is indeed quite weird. The UB 15"/13" MB(P)s use MCP79 too and although the official limit is 4GB there too, they still both work fine with 6GB. Looks like Apple could be deliberately limiting Mac mini RAM capacity to increase upsell to the iMac.
     
 
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