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tatar · Jul 2, 2010, 12:26 AM

...Out of the blue.
Last night, it was working just as it should, and today, when I tried to boot up the computer, that gray screen, with the Apple logo, and those curt lines chasing each other, were displayed longer then usual, and after a minute like that, the fan started to be heard; the fan, I normally never hear working. And yes, upon few more minutes, I just turned off the machine, tried again booting up couple of more times, with the same result...
I did remove the back cover to check on the fan, but didn't see any build up. The big one, as I don't know how to approach the smaller one.
Someone suggested, holding the power button for 5 seconds, while the machine is not hooked to electricity, and then after re-plugging the power cord, trying boot up again, but that didn't work.
I got about 55 gigs on the HD, out of 225.
I'm using a 20" iMac G5 PPC (the basic model), running on OS X Leopard .8
Anyone...?

macaddict0001 · Jul 2, 2010, 03:09 AM

Let it try longer, Try booting from a CD or something. Does the "circle" with the lines stop, or does it keep going. IE is it a hard freeze or just a long delay.

P · Jul 2, 2010, 03:31 AM

The circle with lines means that it is trying to start booting after the memory test. Stopping there implies that your OS install is hosed. Try booting from a system install disc.

tatar · Jul 2, 2010, 05:31 AM

OK; I let it labor for about 20 minutes, and finally, it booted up. After turning it off, and restarting again, it took like, 5 min. only, and on fourth, or fifth attempt, almost like as it was taking the usual time. Not long after, I restarted the computer, as I downloaded something, and the boot up got stuck this time, past the gray screen, and the little running lines, at the dark blue screen, right before the desktop was about to show up. I let it toiling again, but this time, after more then 10 minutes, the little window popped up, saying I should restart my computer. I turned off the machine using the power button at the back; booted up. It came to the desktop, but it was taking really long, for the gray toolbar to display those few ikons.
As pertaining the little lines...; yes, they are animated every time. I'm not sure, what you mean by IE. Internet Explorer, is what comes to mind, but if that is so, I can't find that useful at all, so you must have meant something totally different.

What does, "... OS install is hosed." means?
I don't have the gray discs for this machine; and in any event, the computer booted up finally. What'll happen tomorrow, is absolutely another matter.
If the same thing occur tomorrow, may I use any Leopard install DVD, and when I do get to the desktop, what then...?
All in all, it does look a bit, like the Mac got infected, however that might sound weird...

Spheric Harlot · Jul 2, 2010, 05:49 AM

"i.e." is common usage and means "in effect".

"Does the circle stop running; in effect: is it an actual hard freeze, or just a long delay"

That's actually not quite correct usage, but what the hell.

You answered the question, anyway.

P · Jul 2, 2010, 06:29 AM

If you want to be picky, i.e. stands for the latin "id est". Can usually be read out as "that is".

What I mean is that it looks like you need to reinstall your OS. If you don't have the install disks, there are few more things to check, such as making sure that the HD isn't full (it should be no more than 90% full) and that the HD directory isn't damaged.

tatar · Jul 2, 2010, 10:50 PM

Today, it did boot up normally; maybe slightly slower. I left it on screen saver, and when got back, that little multilingual window was advising to restart, as OS has quit on it's own volition. When I turned it on again, still just a bit slower, every task took for ever, as that little psychedelic circle was constantly turning. Even typing simple text was impossible, as the circle was showing after each couple of keys being punched.
I wanted to paste the panic report, when it quit, but it was taking for ever, so I unhooked the machine.
When I try reinstalling the OS (if that will solve the issue...?), is it possible, instead of a full install, to opt for partial one (with save and archive option, or something), as I got files to keep, and backing them up...? Well, you got the picture...

tatar · Jul 2, 2010, 11:05 PM

I got about 40% of unused space on HD...

tatar · Jul 3, 2010, 01:08 PM

I did boot up the machine today; it took a bit longer to pass the gray screen with the Apple logo and the little lines, but now, everything seems to function, and it's not taking for ever to do this, and that.
Well, something's not working right, and this is where I think I'm screwed.
I tried the reinstallation, but I couldn't get past login verification. I used to install programs before, but I didn't have any password set, so that field was always left empty, before punching OK to verify.
Now, it looks like there is some kind of a password, as the empty field doesn't seem to work. I tried setting a new password, and using it - no dice. Tried once more with the empty field (and again, I was warned, if I leave it like that, without any password, anybody may log in) - same thing. The drop down window, sometimes mentions, a keychain password, but I don't think I know what's that. What puzzles me even more, is that I attempted to verify the HD, with Disk Utility, but I was asked to log in again, and I'm almost certain, I've never been asked such a thing in the past.
Could it be, that this current degenerated OS, made all this mess, and, is there a way out of this login issue...

macaddict0001 · Jul 3, 2010, 07:59 PM

Re-install Mac OS X. Might be a better idea to back up and do an erase and install in this case. Shouldn't make a difference but it might.

I think there is always a password, but you can reset it if you don't know it. Boot from an OS X install disk and use the password reset utility.

cgc · Jul 4, 2010, 08:16 AM

I experienced extremely slow HDD due to it failing. Check S.M.A.R.T. status by opening DiskUtility and selecting the boot drive. The status will be in the bottom right-hand corner of the DiskUtility window.

tatar · Jul 6, 2010, 06:36 AM

Yes, the hard drive is definitely busted...
I have transfered so far, a lot of files, and now have approached about the half of the available disc space (it is the 250 gigs drive), but the info about that (at the bottom of the Finder window), is still showing the digits when the issues started occurring (around 58 gigs). And to corroborate this - after running the Verify Disk task, under the Disk Utility, the message is as follows: "Invalid node structure. Error: file system verify or repair failed. The volume HD needs to be repaired."
Not too much of a trouble really, if the button Repair Disk would have been active, so I could select it, and see what could be done, that way.
I wanted to try S.M.A.R.T. in Disk Utility, but most often than not, I'm unable to get the machine past the gray screen, Apple logo, and those little lines chasing each other (now that I think about this, I don't remember ever being able to make the machine cross that point, when it was functioning properly - it was always doing it by itself).
I'm just wondering, weather the malfunctioning HD is the only culprit, or there may be some other parts needing attending.
Oh, and yes; the password issue seems to be no more, as yesterday, when I was again required to enter the code for something, I went by with the empty space as usual. Also, aforementioned Verify Disk performed, this time wasn't preceded by the request for a password, which just proves I was right - there isn't any password request before essaying the Verify Disk in Disk Utility...
Could it be, that all that mess with passwords I've experienced few days ago, is nevertheless a consequence of the corrupted OS...?

tatar · Jul 12, 2010, 10:27 PM

Well, the computer won't boot up normally any more, for the last few days.
I got the Leopard Install DVD; it's one of those blue discs, and it says Install DVD on it, not a Drop In CPU version, so it should be a full version.
As what I've figured so far, from all your responses, before all, I should try to re-install the OS. The only detail I need to know, is which key to hold, so that the machine may boot up from the install DVD...?

AKcrab · Jul 13, 2010, 12:39 AM

Holding down the C key will force boot from the optical drive.
Holding down option will give you a choice of boot devices.

I don't remember a blue leopard install disk. I wonder what you actually have.

512ke · Jul 13, 2010, 02:12 AM

this could take a while LOL

tatar · Jul 13, 2010, 03:10 AM

After I got to the Installer, getting to the "Select a destination", and selecting a Mac HD, as that is the only hard disc I got in the computer, this white exclamation mark showed up, warning, if I want to proceed, I should change the settings. So I went to options, as I wanted to do Archive and Install, but the only things I got offered, were - format as: 1. Mac OS extended (journaled)
2. Mac OS extended (case sensitive, journaled).
Did I do anything I shouldn't have? I would still like to try to reinstall the OS as Archive and Install, because of some files I got left in there, and I'm still unable to get the computer to boot up normally, and transfer the data on portable storage...

PS: 512ke, could you elaborate; I don's seem to figure, what's so funny...?

Spheric Harlot · Jul 13, 2010, 03:12 AM

Formatting erases everything.

If you wish to do an archive and install, you should NOT get prompted to format the disk.

I wouldn't worry about 512ke.

tatar · Jul 13, 2010, 03:23 AM

But, if I remember well, in the instructions, in the Installer, it was saying that, if I want to save files while installing, I should go to options, and choose Archive and Install, but as I said, I only got those options, both of which were suppose to be the part of a clean install, and the erasing of the HD...

macaddict0001 · 08:03 PM

It is possible that the os is corrupted enough that it is not a recognizable boot volume. I think that could cause that option to disappear. You may have to boot up the machine in Firewire target disk mode and copy the entire contents of the drive, or at least relevent contents to another computer.

tatar · Jul 13, 2010, 09:57 PM

OK, somebody suggested, I shouldn't go to "Select a Destination" window, and choosing in Options, Archive and Install, but instead, choose a Default Installation, by first choosing a Startup Disk (in the gray upper bar of the Installer, under Disk Utility; first item on the drop down menu, StartUp Disk). I was offered: an OS X DVD Install disk, and a Network startup. So, the machine booted up from the installation DVD, and then... Well, nothing happened. I thought I was going to be taken to that default installation, but it was this regular Installer again. One thing more, I don't understand, how this default installation may be accomplished, when I already got Leopard .8 on an HD, and the installation DVD is .4 version. Upgrading from .8 to .4... I don't know...
So I tried going to "Select a Destination" anyway, but this time, it's not that I couldn't get Archive and Install option, I didn't even get the HD to show up at all. Like it never existed. Does this mean, the disk is definitely for garbage collectors?
I managed to run Repair, and Verify Disk in Disk Utility, and on both the result was:
- Incorrect block count for file system entropy cache (it should be 1 instead of 0)
- Invalid node structure
- Invalid key length
- Volume check failed
- Rebuilding catalog B-free Mac HD could not be repaired
Error: file system verify or repair failed.
So, if anyone knows what this mean, should I just replace the existing HD, or maybe try, if the HD somehow shows as a destination disk in "Select a Destination", with "Erase and Install", as I'm not getting "Archive and Install" anyway...?

tatar · Jul 13, 2010, 09:59 PM

Yeah, well, I was composing the message at the same time.
I try what you're saying anyway...

tatar · Jul 15, 2010, 03:29 AM

Spoke, with the guy from a Mac repair shop, and after showing him what the Repair disk in Disk Utility came up with, he says - the disk IS shot.
So, those of you, who did suggest that first - honour is due... Same to those, who came up with other suggestions.
I learned, it is not much of a deal, to replace the HD without going to the repair shop, with all the online tutorials, but I just want to know, is there anything I should know, before freshly installing the Leopard, on a clean disk. Is any kind of preparation needed, before the actual installation, or I should just wait for the Installer to show up, and do the regular full install?
Oh, Macaddict0001; the guy in a repair shop, says, to perform the firewire data transfer, on another machine, the key t should be held.
Whom am I to believe; or should I just try it out myself, and see which key produces a result...?

AKcrab · Jul 15, 2010, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by tatar

Oh, Macaddict0001; the guy in a repair shop, says, to perform the firewire data transfer, on another machine, the key t should be held.
Whom am I to believe; or should I just try it out myself, and see which key produces a result...?

LOL! It's indeed the T key...

There is no prep for installing your OS. The only thing to remember is that the disk will likely be completely unformatted. You'll need to look in the menu bar for "Utilities" and choose Disk Utility to format the drive before you can proceed with the install.

tatar · Jul 15, 2010, 04:20 AM

Yes, formating...!!!
How am I to perform the formating?
Or, is there an "easy" to follow, walk through, for the chooseyourformatingtypeyourself-forthedorks, formating procedure in Disk Utilities....?

AKcrab · Jul 15, 2010, 04:46 AM

Once you're in Disk Utility..
Select the drive from the column on the left.
Click "erase" on the right.
Follow the onscreen instructions.

It's pretty darn simple.

macaddict0001 · Jul 15, 2010, 08:07 PM

Mac OS Extended Journaled is a good choice. You don't need case-sensitive. But it won't hurt much either. Yeah, sorry you do hold the T key on boot to enter FW Target Disk Mode, I had some spelling errors in the last post. Do you have another mac to copy the contents of your hard drive to?

P · Jul 16, 2010, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by macaddict0001

Mac OS Extended Journaled is a good choice. You don't need case-sensitive. But it won't hurt much either.

It will hurt with some apps. I know Adobe apps for instance have had problems with it. Stay away from case sensitive unless you know that you need it.

tatar · Jul 16, 2010, 04:09 AM

I'm about to try that DiskWarrior software (if the computer is going to boot up at all from it), as someone reported having pretty good outcome using the said disk. Well, if I'm going to be able, to force in into the machine enough sense, just so to make it allow me, to scrap up all the data, I'd feel annoyed loosing.
I'm also looking, to get a firewire cable on eBay, but again, I'm getting the clashing info, as the guy, who's like, having a mile long feedback selling those, expressed a bit of a concern, that in a addition, if I want to transfer anything from an iMac to iMac, I'd need another cable. He didn't showcase a line of those, also in his store, so, that might have been a typo to boot. Hey, just kidding...!!!
...And, well, with that last bit - the answer to your question: I do have another (similar concept) iMac. Just, this one's 17"...
So, if those first two operations fail - straight to purchasing, and installing a new HD. And if, one of 'em happen to be successful - straight to purchasing, and installing a new HD as well...

macaddict0001 · Jul 16, 2010, 10:33 AM

You need a firewire cable with the large ends on both sides, it may be referred to as a 6-pin to 6-pin, or A to A cable.

tatar · Jul 16, 2010, 09:14 PM

So - as long as it's a firewire cable, 6 pin to 6 pin, the transfer should work...?

tatar · Jul 21, 2010, 04:36 AM

Where IS everybody...?!

AKcrab · Jul 21, 2010, 06:28 PM

macaddict0001 answered your question.

macaddict0001 · Jul 21, 2010, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by tatar

So - as long as it's a firewire cable, 6 pin to 6 pin, the transfer should work...?

Depending on how FUBAR your hard drive is.

tatar · Jul 24, 2010, 03:05 AM

Yeah I figured that out, when I've realized my second to last question have been redundant, and before I've typed out the last one...
Was just kidding; or it might have been just a rhetorical question...

Waragainstsleep · Jul 24, 2010, 10:55 AM

Ah, the good old B-tree catalog. You need Diskwarrior. Or a new drive. Take your pick.

Diskwarrior ill repair a damaged B-tree catalog. More often than not.

dvfx · Jul 26, 2010, 04:19 PM

Hello All,
I am sort of new to MAC but rely heavily on it for work. Yesterday it was trying to set access for a client to use the wifi without being able to access my files and when I rebooted, it would see my iMac HD. I booted from the Leopard 10.5 CD and ran the verify and repair options. It said all was fine but still wouldn't boot to the hard drive. I tried to do a reinstall, checking the save n archive options but it crashed half way through telling me to reboot and try again. When I did so, it wouldn't allow me to do a save and archive install. Now it doesn't see the HD just a folder with a (?).

Is there anything I can do to save my HD and all my work?
THANX!!

macaddict0001 · Jul 27, 2010, 04:11 AM

Hopefully all your important stuff is backed up, it sounds like it could be a hardware problem. But at this point your leopard install probably isn't any good either. If you don't have backups or copies of your data it may be best to copy the entire contents of your harddrive to another computer and go through them there, or seek a professional data recovery service if it is really important.

tatar · Aug 3, 2010, 05:58 AM

OK everyone, what's right with this picture...?
Say what...?!..... Yeah man, you're looking at one happy dude, showing off...
The magic word?... How about - DiskWarrior...?!
Man, after I repaired the directories on the HD (OK - DW did that), all left to wrap up nicely - reinstalling the OS. And after that, I started using the machine again. All the data I found intact. And what made the whole affair even more sexier - it is running smoother, AND faster than before the directories collapse. Specially noticeable - when I'm typing messages, like here, or emails. The delete button is so nimble now, I have to watch out, not to erase three whole sentences (G. G. Márquez style sentences), when I want to remove a character or two. Man, that DiskWarrior - some BadMotherFu..er...!
Ahmm, OK, now a bit about, what BMF reported after performing those three available tasks, i.e. repair of directories, files and HD checking: 1). there are only three things it couldn't fix, and those are some directories (or files - I forgot which task has reported that), related to MS Messenger, and 2). nothing else. All the files got recommended depth, and the HD appears to be just fine.
And now I'm thinking - who the heck's MS Messenger...?!
So, everything's in order, and working, and the machine never even left the house.
Much obliged to everyone suggesting; and I think this thread should be left for some lovelier places. It's almost embarrassing, how long it keeps on getting....