[dawaves]

Is it possible to keep the Ti running with the lid closed?? I want to listen to my Mp3's while the lid is closed....it always sleeps when I close the lid...thanks.

Originally posted by dawaves:
Is it possible to keep the Ti running with the lid closed?? I want to listen to my Mp3's while the lid is closed....it always sleeps when I close the lid...thanks.

I wanted to do the same thing, but I don't think it's possible with the stock configuration. The only way to run the Ti with the screen closed is to plug in a monitor and a USB mouse (and maybe a keyboard). Only after it senses these two devices are plugged in can it run closed. Too bad there's no small, portable LCD VGA monitor available. Maybe you can try with a TV connected to the S-video port. If it works, there are portable LCD TVs available with video input. I'd try it, but I haven't gotten my Ti yet.

Just realized that it does need a keyboard attached. Or at least a USB numeric keypad, if any exist. Only a keypress can wake up the machine when it's closed and sleeping. A mouse won't do it.

[zappy]

Originally posted by Binky:
Just realized that it does need a keyboard attached. Or at least a USB numeric keypad, if any exist. Only a keypress can wake up the machine when it's closed and sleeping. A mouse won't do it.

What about a USB remote control for playing mp3s with lid closed? That would be awesome. Make it from titanium also...

Regards

[2far]

Originally posted by Binky:
Just realized that it does need a keyboard attached. Or at least a USB numeric keypad, if any exist. Only a keypress can wake up the machine when it's closed and sleeping. A mouse won't do it.

You might be interested in the iCue, which is a power on switch for USB (essentially an old iMac Keyboard without the rest of the keys ...). Don't know if it would work for this purpose, but it's quite probable. To check you could use an old iMac/G3/G4 keyboard.

Originally posted by zappy:
What about a USB remote control for playing mp3s with lid closed? That would be awesome.

It would be nice, but you still need a display. The worst part would be that you'd need to keep the rear door open to connect the display and USB devices. It wouldn't be easy to carry it in a bag like that.

[bstone]

I remember reading in the documentation for my Powerbook G3/300 that there was a way to use the powerbook with the screen closed. I'd look through the papers which came with it.

"papers, papers!!!"

[2far]

Here's an interesting note how to operate the PB with the lid closed (i.e. wake it to use an external screen only): http://www.go2mac.com/newswire/displ...ire.cfm?id=264

[hmr]

You CAN if you install LinuxPPC - then you can close the lid and listen to some MP3 audio!

(is it just me, or is my screen melting???)

[PCTek]

Heh, i see this question constantly throughout the forums.

The only way for the machine to work with the lid closed is with an external monitor and keyboard and mouse attached.

Apple probably made it so you can't run it closed except under certain circumstances. like I always thought, heat rises from the keyboard. If the machine is closed, and no external monitor attached the LCD would be on. Not good.

With an external monitor attached, the LCD would be off, Safe, right?

I've got a server here with a vga monitor adapter that's set with all dip switches set to off. as such, it runs 'headless' and is administered through the lan.

without the adapter, the machine won't boot since it can't find a screen. perhaps there's something here that works too?

I don't have a TiG4 to try this on (if anyone would like to send, I'll gladly do the testing).

It used to be possible to hook up a monitor adapter (Apple -> SVGA) on older machines which the Mac would read as a monitor regardless of whether one was really there or not. Might be worth a try to see if anyone ever made the inverse of this or makes a SVGA -> some other format adapter.

So far as the keyboard, I'm not sure but I'd think someone would make a similar adapter for it.

You might want to check with companies that use iMacs as touch screen kiosks.

Dennis Little
[email protected]

[ndpatel]

why are we playing mp3's with the lid closed anyhow? just remember, one of those i-jam mp3 players costs like $50 now, and they come with a CF card reader in the deal. if you spend more than $50 on all of these monitor adaptors and usb power buttons and whatnot, you'll be sort of limiting your flexibility. just get a good mp3 player (or, better, a minidisc player) and have the best of both worlds.

I may be wrong, but I tihnk you should just be able to go into the Energy Saver control panel and uncheck "Mute Sounds while Computer is asleep".

Originally posted by ndpatel:
why are we playing mp3's with the lid closed anyhow? just remember, one of those i-jam mp3 players costs like $50 now, and they come with a CF card reader in the deal. if you spend more than $50 on all of these monitor adaptors and usb power buttons and whatnot, you'll be sort of limiting your flexibility. just get a good mp3 player (or, better, a minidisc player) and have the best of both worlds.

But it's not the best of both worlds. It's a pain to change the selections on the mp3 portables. You have to download them from your computer then put them in the order you want to hear them (using the tiny LCD on the player, of course). I keep 3gb of mp3s on my PB, all organized by genre. It's a cinch to find and pull up any songs I want to hear, throw them into a 120MB RAMbunctious disk, open up Macast, rearrange the playlist and play to my heart's content. Playing out of RAM disk instead of HD and letting the screen shut off after a minute gave me battery life of over 9 hours on one trip. This kind of convenience is why all my CDs are gathering dust at home.

[mycatsnameis]

OK here's an idea but, since I'm not an Apple Script jockey I'm not sure if it would work.

We know that plugging in a USB device (i.e. a mouse) will wake the comupter from sleep (and prompt it to look for a new monitor for e.g.).

Would it be possible to write an Apple Script that could be activated by a single mouse click (just after plugging it in) that would launch iTunes and hit play on the list that was in the library?

Just a thought.

catman

[mkchan]

I prefer to open the PowerBook while I am listening to MP3 because I can see the stunning visualisation of iTunes!!

Otherwise, just buy a standlone MP3 player and don't have to bring a 5.3 pounds machine around.

[dawaves]

WOW .....good to see this thread up and running again!!!

I originally posted this to find out if it was possible to utilize my $3000.00 machine as a portable MP3 player....I want to be able to carry around my Ti with headphones and just listen to MP3's as I'm walking about...Wouldn't that be great!?!?

Please if anyone has more info on this, please post!!!

[Dan Szwarc]

Keyboard with a powerbutton is required to wake the Firewire G3 from sleep. PB G4 is probably the same. There was an Apple TIL about it somewhere.

I think if you plug in a mouse, it wakes up and then just goes back to sleep.

I think you also need a monitor (or fake it, like luv mai tai and dennis said) to keep it awake.

[Toinou]

You're right. Plugging a mouse will wake the computer up but it'll come back to sleep after about 30 secs (not much if U want to listen to your favorite tunes. Anyway even if the idea of using the powerbook as a 'portable' MP3 player is fun, I'm not gonna leave it running (even with screen off) when I carry it in its case (it's gonna run too hot, I'm pretty sure about that). So why bother ?!?


Toinou

[mycatsnameis]

Just wondering if kicking an AppleScript into gear and lanching iTunes would get around the "back to sleep" issue.

I'd love to be able to do this b/c I cart my Ti back and forth to work anyway and it would be very handy to just plud in some headphones and have it running out of my pack.

catman

[Aykew]

It's just a BIT off topic, but the thing I'd really love would be an MP3 player that was just the decoder chip and interface with no internal memory plus a firewire port. Said player could mount an external hard disk (or Powerbook in Target disk mode), scan for mp3's, and play them with an interface similar to the Nomad Jukebox. It would work, if someone could figure out how to power it without having to swap out 6AA's every three minutes.

Plugging in a mouse will not wake it up. Whenever I get home, I plug an optical trackball into my PB, then wake it up by pressing a key on the keyboard.

[mycatsnameis]

Not true. Plugging in a USB mouse automatically wakes the Ti (and other G3 PBs except the Wallstreet I belive) from sleep whether the book is open or closed (I just tried it on mine prior to wrinting this). If the lid is closed the screen will come on but as others have pointed out, after a period of inactivity, sleep kicks back in again.

I'm going to go off and try to learn enough about AppleScripting to see if I can make a script that launches iTunes on wake and see of it works. I'll report back one way or the other but it may take me some time.

catman

[tooki]

Originally posted by PCTek:
Apple probably made it so you can't run it closed except under certain circumstances. like I always thought, heat rises from the keyboard. If the machine is closed, and no external monitor attached the LCD would be on. Not good.

I have debunked this over and over, please stop bringing it up! The only PowerBook which relies on heat dissipation through the keyboard is the Wallstreet. Every model after that (Lombard, Pismo, TiBook) was specifically designed to dissipate heat through the bottom of the machine, and can safely be operated with the screen down.

See http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n88064 and http://til.info.apple.com/techinfo.nsf/artnum/n58334 -- if you won't believe me, take it straight from the source.

LCD panels produce only insignificant amounts of heat -- in fact, I just put my hand on my Pismo's LCD and it's not even beginning to warm. Remember that the tubes used are cold-cathode fluorescent -- they don't generate heat.

tooki

[This message has been edited by tooki (edited 02-28-2001).]

[mycatsnameis]

Well said tookman. In fact my only real concern for getting this to work (aside from the fact that it may not be possible to get the script to actually do what I wnat) is whether or not I should have the hardrive spinning while I'm walking around with my Ti sitting vertical in my pack.

catman

[dawaves]

thats tru....I dont my HD to be spinning vertically, for it might damage the internals.....

I like the Apple script idea but I dont know AS all that well....

I wonder if any UNIX hacks could possibly do this in OSX???
that would be cool!!!

My dream for this Ti is to walk around with my Ti 'CLOSED' in my backpack and be listening to MP3's on headphones with the HD not spinning and the LCD to be off!!!

PLEASE HELP ALL YOU MAC HACKERS!!!!

[This message has been edited by dawaves (edited 02-28-2001).]

[danbrew]

are you guys actually suggesting the HD standing on it's side is bad for it? quick, sombody better tell me Cube, as the HD is mounted vertically. In addition, 1/2 of the machines at my desk are standing on their side!! Gasp, god, somebody get in here with a level and some bondo!!!

From an MP3 perspective, I'd suggest you go out and purchase a RIO or some such device that will accept a PCMCIA card... I can just see the headphone cord getting caught up on something when you get off the school bus... bang! I wonder how much it costs to replace that little headphone connector?

[mycatsnameis]

Dan, no disrespect intended but this thread is about cool ways to use your powerbook as an mp3 player. Of course we could all go out and buy mp3 players _if_ we had the money and _if_ we had the inclination but ... we do not .

Getting back on topic, I suppose I should have been more clear about that HD statement, I'm more concerned about the HD boucing around in my pack than sitting sideways (apologies to cube fans everywhere, not that there are any fans in cubes ... ba dum bump).

Waveman you make a good point about not having the HD spinning. It gave me an idea, if I can make the script thing work, you would just preload your mp3s into your RAM disk and run it off that (how many mp3 players can load up over have 300 megs of tunes like my Ti?? ). That should actually solve the HD problem but granted you wouldn't be able to access all 5 gigs of mp3s that you've got (Actually for me it's got to be closer to 10 gigs by now).

Stay tuned.

catman

[This message has been edited by mycatsnameis (edited 02-28-2001).]

[danbrew]

hey, no disrespective received. i just know what a pain in the ass it is to use a large device for MP3 playing. I sit on airplanes a lot and do use laptops as MP3 players... and recently used the Ti for a few hours. Getting up and down is a real pain as you're essentially connected by your ears... . Anyway, I shudder the thought of actually carrying around a laptop (vs. sitting on an airplane) to listen to tunes.

And if you've got the 2500-3500 for the Ti, you've likely got the $200 for the MP3 player...

[tullamore]

You will not have a problem with the hard drive on it's side. It doesn't matter what the orientation of the drive is. The problem occurs when you bounce the drive. If you were to make any suddent movements such as hitting the computer against a chair or wall the hard drive mechanism could touch the platter leaving an irreversible batch of bad blocks. Putting the MP3s on the RAM disk is a great idea, you will probably also want to copy the MP3 player itself to the RAM disk just in case.

[mycatsnameis]

So there's good news and bad news. The good news is that you can get the Ti to play mp3s with the lid closed and no VGA monitor connected (although you have to connect one briefly to trick the system to operate with the screen close). The bad news is that as soon as you disconnect the power adapter, the system just goes straight to sleep. I tried monkeying with all the settings in the Energy Saver Control Panel but I could not find any way around this.

Here's what I did:

1) Lanunch iTunes (computer using AC power) and configure to taste (and plug in headphones)
2) Position cursor over the play button
3) Close the lid to put Ti to sleep
4) Plug in VGA cable (I happened to use one from a monitor with its power off)
5) Plug in an old hockey puck mouse (ball out to keep the cursor from moving)
6) Computer wakes w/o the screen coming on
7) Wait until you hear the system wake (gives you a bit of a click in the headphones, takes 10-30 seconds depending on how fast your system takes to wake up)
8) Click to mouse start the tunes playing
9) Disconnect the VGA monitor (you can actually do this any time after the computer wakes from sleep
10) Here's the kicker, as soon as you pull the AC power plug, the system goes back to sleep giving you the characteristic pulsing white light of battery powered sleep.

I tried many different tricks to wake the computer back up and all I could get were a few millieconds of mp3 play before it would shut itself back down.

If anyone has a hack that will get the computer to operate in "screen closed" mode on battery power, you can probably get this to work. Otherwise we're out of luck I'm afraid.

catman

[dawaves]

THX "catman".....

MAn I wish this could work!!!

If only Apple could release some software patch for sleep mode to alleviate this. Can you imagine walking around with the Ti and listeing to MP3's....Apple would only get more attention from all the people jocking you as you walk around carrying your Ti.....


PLEASE APPLE HELP!!!!

ALL MAC CRACKERS, PLEASE HELP!!!

[dawaves]

THX "catman".....

MAn I wish this could work!!!

If only Apple could release some software patch for sleep mode to alleviate this. Can you imagine walking around with the Ti and listeing to MP3's....Apple would only get more attention from all the people jocking you as you walk around carrying your Ti.....


PLEASE APPLE HELP!!!!

ALL MAC CRACKERS, PLEASE HELP!!!

[mycatsnameis]

It appears to be a hardware thing. I was reminded reading an Apple TIL today that with "lid closed" operation (i.e. with the computer thinking it's attached to a VGA monitor) there are increased power requirements and hence the computer will automatically sleep if the power supple is disconnected.

I'm going to keep digging but I'm pessimistic about my chances of getting around this one. It was pretty cool though for the few minutes that I thought I had the whole problem solved (i.e. before I pulled the AC plug).

catman

[2far]

I closed the lid after starting without extensions: the PB won't sleep and the screen also stays on ...

So now you know where to look for (just disable the extensions that are responsible (tell me which ones when you found out). You may then identify which part actually is in control and disable that with resedit. (Or maybe not.)

[dawaves]

Very interesting,

Now can someone decipher "2far"'s message in English please. :-)...

[mycatsnameis]

Hmmm it's an interesting idea (that there is an extension that controls sleep with the lid closed) but as far as I know he must have started it with a "base" extension set as opposed to no extensions. I'll try to check it out.

I've still been trying to solve this problem, someone suggested an extension called "insomnia" which exists but didn't work (I think it just works during installs to keep the machine awake).

Anyway, it should be easy enough to try this, you just need some time to go through a bunch of restarts toggling likely extensions off/on one at a time.

catman

[dawaves]

Alright Catman....

keep us posted....

I'll try myself too....

[mycatsnameis]

2Far, can you expand on what you posted? When you say that you started up with no extensions, did you mean the base extension set or absolutely no extensions. If the latter, I was not aware that this is possible, how did you do it. I tried with the base 9.1 set but was unable to replicate your observation. TIA

catman

[Titanium Man]

All extensions off, I bet. I ran into a similar situation when I first got my PB G4. It kept trying to take me through the Setup Manager, which I didn't want to do. A force quit locked up the machine and I restarted without extensions. Then I was a little alarmed when it didn't sleep after I closed the lid. Had to put it to sleep from the menu. Didn't understand why until I read this thread.

[Titanium Man]

[This message has been edited by Titanium Man (edited 03-16-2001).]

[Titanium Man]

[This message has been edited by Titanium Man (edited 03-16-2001).]

[jules]

You hold the Shift key while starting up.

[mycatsnameis]

Jules to the rescue... thanks babe .

[jules]

Originally posted by mycatsnameis:
Jules to the rescue... thanks babe .

[Smircle]

Better not try to use your PB that way for two reasons:
1) a spinning HD is *extremely* sensitive to shock and a little banging of the PB agains anything might cause a head-crash or at least diminish the live-time of the HD by straining its rotor-bearings.

2) you can ruin the socket that holds the headphone jack (done this with my wallstreet) if you happen to bang it against anything while the headphones are plugged in.

[mycatsnameis]

Thanks for the advice Smirc. We've already addressed the HD issue (just load iTunes and all the mp3's you want into your RAM disk) but the jack issue is one that I was not familiar with.

Doesn't look like it's going to happen anyway. I ahve the time (and patience) last night to play around with my extension set. 2Far was absolutely right about the screen staying up if you close the lid but, unfortunately it does appear that the rest of the system goes into some kind of sleep mode. I did manage to find a minimal extension set that would still allow itunes to play (basically you've got to toggle on all the QuickTime exts. plus the odd audio one) and, indeed, when you close the lid with iTunes running under that config, the screen stays on but the system goes to sleep.

I don't like to do this but I think that I've got to admit defeat on this one. I just can't work around the sleep/battery issue. sigh...

On the other hand, I'm really liking that "titanium" (Edge) Visor with an mp3 adapter as an alternative (all of me except my bank account that is).

Catman

never give up.

I just got this working well yesterday. Got 512 mb in my ti 400 so I set 200 to be a ramdisk and stuck a few albums in there. 2 tricks make it possibe. THe first is to get a sleevecase from sfbags.com which will hold the ti well. After getting this take a soft cloth and fold it up so it is about 1/4 inch thick. Put it between the latch and the lid and then turn the brightness all the way down so that the screen is off.

Then you can shut the lid and have no screen power but still have the system on.

THe second trick is to use the keyspan usb infrared remote. If you put the port edge of the TI at the top of the sleevecase it wont damage the connectors when placed in a bag (i use the waterfield cargo bag) and you can then route the infrared adapter along the bag strap. Remote in hand and headphones in ears and you then enjoy about 6 hours of mp3s.

Enjoy

[dawaves]

hmmmmmm.....

I don't think that solution will satisfy me enuff, "rickr"...

the point is I want to be walking around with my fabulous Ti to show it off and not enclose it in some bland looking bag....

There has to be a way to do this!!!

C'MON "catman", we're almost there....I tried it with all extensions off too but itunes is still unreachable....

I think it is still possible....

NEVER GIVE UP!!!!