Originally posted by DNA man:
Severe obesity is a serious health condition that can lead to an earlier death.

So is malnutrition.

[Sealobo]

Just out of curiousity... apart from human being, does any other specie on this planet have the problem of an overweighted population?

I assume that most if not all species' population sizes and properties are a result of established equilibrium, through various controls such as natual competition/selection. Then of course there existed some variations in weight and sizes. However, compare to the others, it seems that this variability of "weight distribution" is getting out of hand in the human populace. For example, you can EASILY find a man weigthed below 125lbs or over 250lbs in a typical neighbourhood, but it's unlikely to observe the same in any other mammal species that i could think of.

So what we now have is an artificial equilibrium, a result of human's control over food production and consumption pattern. It is not a natual equilibrium and it's obviously inefficient (pretty much like market economy v.s. planned economy).

So what do we have here? A new breed of human race as a by-product of mass production. These people are fat (genetic or not) and it seems some of them have no control over their own weight. My impression is that the variation in weight for the human race in the pre-Industrial Revolution era was smaller. The majority of people had relatively little control on what and how they're going to consume.

One arguement: if we allowed all cats and dogs back into the woods and stop feeding them, then their population sizes must shrink. On top of that their average weight, the range must also decrease because they would see constraints on their consumption patterns. You could find a fat dog/cat in your neighbourhood because its master allowed it to happen. Again, it's artificial.

Welcome to the Fat Nation - a phenomenon of the 21st century.

[macvillage.net]

I think that nice little picture above explains it all...

MORE people are getting fat....


So is this thyroid thing the next AIDS? Can I catch it sitting next to someone? In less than a generation is has gotten much worse... meaning it can't be genetic! So it must be contagous... Sexual? Bloodborne? Airborne?




One funny note: I can pretty much tell exactly who is "fat" and who isn't by reading replies.

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by sealobo:

HELL ****IN' YEAH!!! West Virginia is leading the way to the fat house.

Seriously though, I always get a kick out of those BMI things. The ones that say that I should weigh like 150 or whatever. Great stuff.

Also, I think everyone should step back, take a deep breath, eat a couple hotdogs, and chill out. or something like that. Like sittin on dicks.

hell yeeeaaaahhh.

[undotwa]

What is the US military standard on whether you are 'fat' or not? How much % body fat?

[Cipher13]

I'm underweight for my height - but I'm not amazingly thin. I think I just have very light bones, or some **** like that...

I'm pretty fit, I'm not a stick. I don't work out, though walking all over campus and to/from uni every day helps a fair bit.

Genetics do play a role, I think. Obviously, they're not the sole benefactor of the obese, but it has an effect.

I have a very fast metabolism - I can eat and eat, as much as I want, as fatty as I want, and never weigh more than 116 lbs. My average weight is 114 (52Kg).

Light huh? If you looked at me, you'd guess 65kgish.

But I do agree, 90% of the time it comes down to behaviour. It's mental. I don't have any sympathy for obese people who can't get off their ass and exercise, cause they're too damn lazy... or obese people who'll have "just one more double quarter pounder with cheese, and 4 large fries'"...

[Zimphire]

Cash I really don't think your problem is ADD, I just think your parents didn't teach you the difference between right and wrong, or made you responsible for your actions. Otherwise you would have never posted such tripe.

I have far more problem with ignorant poopy heads than fat people.

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I'm underweight for my height - but I'm not amazingly thin. I think I just have very light bones, or some **** like that...

I'm pretty fit, I'm not a stick. I don't work out, though walking all over campus and to/from uni every day helps a fair bit.

Genetics do play a role, I think. Obviously, they're not the sole benefactor of the obese, but it has an effect.

I have a very fast metabolism - I can eat and eat, as much as I want, as fatty as I want, and never weigh more than 116 lbs. My average weight is 114 (52Kg).

Light huh? If you looked at me, you'd guess 65kgish.

But I do agree, 90% of the time it comes down to behaviour. It's mental. I don't have any sympathy for obese people who can't get off their ass and exercise, cause they're too damn lazy... or obese people who'll have "just one more double quarter pounder with cheese, and 4 large fries'"...

Wow... how tall are you in centimetres?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by undotwa:


Wow... how tall are you in centimetres?

In centimetres? Damn... I dunno.

5'11", if that helps at all...

[jcadam]

Originally posted by undotwa:
What is the US military standard on whether you are 'fat' or not? How much % body fat?

It varies by age (you get more fat allowance as you get older) and gender(females naturally have more body fat), and the Army, Air Force, etc. each have their own standards.

I am 22 years old and can be up to 22% body fat.

I am currently hovering slightly below 20%.

You only have to have your body fat% measured if you fail to meet your height/weight screening weight (mine is 185lbs, being that I am 22 and 70 inches tall. I usually hover right around 185), or if your commander decides that your appearance suggests excessive body fat.

Personally I feel that if someone can pass the Army Physical Fitness Test(APFT), it shouldn't matter what their supposed body fat% is. The way the Army works it now, they would rather a soldier be within body fat standards and achieve a minimum passing APFT score (180 pts.), than to be 0.1% overfat and achieve the maximum APFT score (300 pts).

Bah, I don't make the rules. I got screwed about a month and a half ago. I weighed-in at 190lbs, so I had to get fat% tested. My tester did NOT know what he was doing and incorrectly measured me at 0.48% overfat (in fact, this same tester f****d over several people). I went through a lot of bull$hit for that. I eventually bitched about it enough that I got re-measured and I had majically lost about an inch-and-a-half around my waist and 2% body fat. In two weeks. Bleh, idiots.

[Lerkfish]

There are a variety of reasons for being overweight.

For example, I have late onset diabetes, discovered 3 years ago. Although this is more to do with blood sugar, what happens ironically is that if your glucose levels are out of whack, you can be ravenously hungry even though your body has had enough food. This tends to cycle, with the more you eat the more imbalanced is your blood sugar, the hungrier you feel. Once diagnosed, with oral medication and controlled diet I lost around 70 lbs.
However, I was no more lazier when I had the weight, nor more industrious after losing the weight. (except as a level of less baggage to carry around)
It was just that my blood sugar became more regulated and I was less susceptible to feeling hungry when I wasn't.

That's just one example, but there are others. The point is, assigning emotional afferent labels (lazy, stupid, etc.) to people who are obese, based only on the observation that they are obese, is going to be inaccurate in many cases.

What's more revealing is why thin people who admit they have no problems with weight feel the need to label the overweight in negative perjoratives, such as lazy. If your metabolism, as some claim, automatically regulates your weight, then who is actually lazy here? Your skinny status is therefore due to no extra effort on your own, whereas many overweight people are constantly battling their weight, albeit with varying success.

In other words, you cannot know that because of someone's weight how industrious or lazy they are....that's just a bizarre need on the part of the non-overweight to feel superior with no corroboration...for some reason.

[kidtexas]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
I have a very fast metabolism - I can eat and eat, as much as I want, as fatty as I want, and never weigh more than 116 lbs. My average weight is 114 (52Kg).

I know what you mean dog. i eat and eat and eat, work out as much as i want, etc, and am always 208. oh ****. and i'm shorter than you. must mean i'm a fat ass.

in all seriousness though, my brother is 5'11, 135, and is skinny as hell. he eats ok, and working out is sporadic as he moves into his 30's. I eat ok, and work out sporadically now that athletic involvement is over. i'm 5'11 210. i'm maybe 5-10 lbs overweight. maybe. My brother and i ate the same meals, played the same sports (up to 11th grade, when i dropped cross country for football), etc, yet i outweigh him by 70 lbs even though i am shorter than him.

Anyone who says genetics doesn't play a huge role in things is full of crap. Now, having said that, a huge part of things is also environment - what you eat, your mindset, your activity level, etc. Its nature AND nurture, not OR.

I'm sure if we were all hunting mammoths and living in caves and ****, that we (humans) would be a hell of a lot fitter and skinnier. BUT, just because you are relatively thin and the cat next to you is fat as hell doesn't mean that he just needs to lay off the twinkies - thats where genetics does come in. he could be eating the same type of "modern" diet.

[MindFad]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
I think there are greater social problems than fat people.

Indeed, if you know what I mean.

I think you've outdone yourself this time, Cash.

6'5" 310 pounds here. Lard ass elite.

Man, I'm such a calm and non-violent person, too, but I really felt like smashing you with my fat ass after reading some of your brain dead comments, Cash.

Yes, the country is fat. I don't blame the genes. I'm quite overweight because I'm lazy. I eat out. I do not exercise much at all. I know it's a problem, and I try and I work on it by actually doing or not doing some of the things listed above. But to be lumped into some fat-ass category by a moron that has the brain power today that I had in first grade makes me sick. This thread is the only thread that has actually pissed me off in my time on these boards.

Yes, the country is fat. But I blame the country's sick, sudden reliance on fast food. I blame lazy people. I blame stupid parents that raise their kids on chemical-filled (do they not put chemicals into the cows? Hormones, something? Can't find the articles) McDonald's (and whatever else) -- and wonder why their kids have tits at the age of five. My GF works at a gym with kids and her class is filled with twenty overweight 6-year-olds with knockers. It really makes me wince seeing all these damn overweight kids sometimes.

But I blame the influence and temptation of these fast, crappy, cheap meals. Like being hooked on any other drug. And not the lead-filled paint chips Cash obviously consumed as a child -- well, that he consumed when he was younger.

And here I apologize for my lame, angry rant. I bit into the stupid post and gave in. Everyone is excused to give in and take the bait once, right? Right.

[digimage]

Originally posted by sealobo:
Welcome to the Fat Nation - a phenomenon of the 21st century.

Whatever... Why asians are always saying americans are fat and lazy is beyond me. At least we have original ideas and large penises.

[Zimphire]

MUHAHAHA that was a pop spitter.

[cjrivera]

Another reason Americans are getting more obese? You're staring at it right now....

I've probably spent 20+ minutes reading the latest from the MacNN lounge and several other sites, that could have easily been spent at the gym.

Computers/console games/movies have helped decrease the amount of time kids actually play outside, which has increased the percentage of obese children in the US. I have a few Type 2 (obesity related) Diabetic children in my practice. When I was in training, the endocrinologist who I was following had mentioned that she rarely saw Type 2 Diabetes in kids, and she saw hundreds of diabetic children a month. For someone to have 3 or 4 in a general pediatrics practice just shocked her when I recently talked to her. And when these kids come in, they're usually playing a gameboy. And the parents are of course in denial. "It must run in the family" "He must be big boned" When you ask them about exercise/playtime, it's almost non-existent.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by cjrivera:
Another reason Americans are getting more obese? You're staring at it right now....

I've probably spent 20+ minutes reading the latest from the MacNN lounge and several other sites, that could have easily been spent at the gym.

Computers/console games/movies have helped decrease the amount of time kids actually play outside, which has increased the percentage of obese children in the US. I have a few Type 2 (obesity related) Diabetic children in my practice. When I was in training, the endocrinologist who I was following had mentioned that she rarely saw Type 2 Diabetes in kids, and she saw hundreds of diabetic children a month. For someone to have 3 or 4 in a general pediatrics practice just shocked her when I recently talked to her. And when these kids come in, they're usually playing a gameboy. And the parents are of course in denial. "It must run in the family" "He must be big boned" When you ask them about exercise/playtime, it's almost non-existent.

I beleive that is a worldly problem, and not just a US problem.

[El Pre$idente]

Originally posted by sealobo:
Just out of curiousity... apart from human being, does any other specie on this planet have the problem of an overweighted population?

Fat people seem to have spread from the stupidest and most religious states in the US. Maybe they were scared of crucifixion and thought: If Jesus was super fat they wouldn't have been able to put him up on the cross.

[Ruby]

Okay......It has been a long time since I have posted in these forums and there are a few reasons behind it:

1. Somewhere along the line of liking and discussing Macs, a lot of individuals here have started to think that a Macintosh forum is the place to blantantly state that....."hey everyone!...guess what...."I HATE FAT PEOPLE".

2. Some dumb f*ck that calls himself Cash actually has the audacity to think that his opinions are worth everyone's time...when he is probably sitting at home in front of his computer playing with himself and wondering how he became to be such a pathetic loser.

3. These forums are probably the only place that "Mr. Controversy" can come to and actually feel like his life is worth something.


It's funny...when I stopped posting here, Cash was playing the same games...a year and a half later he seems to still find that the only people that don't think he's a pathetic pr*ck, are a bunch of Mac people in a discussion forum.

Cash, I hope that you get your ass kicked soon. I don't mean some little brawl where you just get b*tch slapped....I mean I hope you get your teeth knocked in, your whole male anatomy twisted into oblivion so scumbags like you can't reproduce.

Please just know that you're pathetic. Ok?? Know that you are an insecure little b*tch.

[CyberDave]

Originally posted by MindFad:


Indeed, if you know what I mean.

I think you've outdone yourself this time, Cash.

6'5" 310 pounds here. Lard ass elite.

Man, I'm such a calm and non-violent person, too, but I really felt like smashing you with my fat ass after reading some of your brain dead comments, Cash.

Yes, the country is fat. I don't blame the genes. I'm quite overweight because I'm lazy. I eat out. I do not exercise much at all. I know it's a problem, and I try and I work on it by actually doing or not doing some of the things listed above. But to be lumped into some fat-ass category by a moron that has the brain power today that I had in first grade makes me sick. This thread is the only thread that has actually pissed me off in my time on these boards.

Yes, the country is fat. But I blame the country's sick, sudden reliance on fast food. I blame lazy people. I blame stupid parents that raise their kids on chemical-filled (do they not put chemicals into the cows? Hormones, something? Can't find the articles) McDonald's (and whatever else) -- and wonder why their kids have tits at the age of five. My GF works at a gym with kids and her class is filled with twenty overweight 6-year-olds with knockers. It really makes me wince seeing all these damn overweight kids sometimes.

But I blame the influence and temptation of these fast, crappy, cheap meals. Like being hooked on any other drug. And not the lead-filled paint chips Cash obviously consumed as a child -- well, that he consumed when he was younger.

And here I apologize for my lame, angry rant. I bit into the stupid post and gave in. Everyone is excused to give in and take the bait once, right? Right.

I second just about every word written here (and then some).

CyberDave

[Mac Zealot]

Originally posted by MindFad:


Indeed, if you know what I mean.

I think you've outdone yourself this time, Cash.

6'5" 310 pounds here. Lard ass elite.

Man, I'm such a calm and non-violent person, too, but I really felt like smashing you with my fat ass after reading some of your brain dead comments, Cash.

Yes, the country is fat. I don't blame the genes. I'm quite overweight because I'm lazy. I eat out. I do not exercise much at all. I know it's a problem, and I try and I work on it by actually doing or not doing some of the things listed above. But to be lumped into some fat-ass category by a moron that has the brain power today that I had in first grade makes me sick. This thread is the only thread that has actually pissed me off in my time on these boards.

Yes, the country is fat. But I blame the country's sick, sudden reliance on fast food. I blame lazy people. I blame stupid parents that raise their kids on chemical-filled (do they not put chemicals into the cows? Hormones, something? Can't find the articles) McDonald's (and whatever else) -- and wonder why their kids have tits at the age of five. My GF works at a gym with kids and her class is filled with twenty overweight 6-year-olds with knockers. It really makes me wince seeing all these damn overweight kids sometimes.

But I blame the influence and temptation of these fast, crappy, cheap meals. Like being hooked on any other drug. And not the lead-filled paint chips Cash obviously consumed as a child -- well, that he consumed when he was younger.

And here I apologize for my lame, angry rant. I bit into the stupid post and gave in. Everyone is excused to give in and take the bait once, right? Right.

6'2, 260lb here.

And I thought I was fat.

I'm still big though, my doctor drives me nuts, she shows me a chart with this thing saying i'm supposed to weigh something like 160.

Yikes.

Oh well, I know I need to spend less time chatting on #macnn and playing wolfenstein, maybe someday.

Truth is, I think I'll contribute more to the world (and myself + my ego, etc) if I am a lardass who's happy with myself, and makes other people happy, than a stick thin figure who just pisses everyone off.

The sad thing is most people think I weigh 200.

Anywa, can't say much, I know I can run a mile in under 10 minutes (after about a few weeks of excersing what, an hour a day, I can get it down to around 7-8 mins)

I know what I can do very well

Anyway, I know people don't like me sometimes, for being fat, but I could care less.

Truth is out there, I eat about twice a day, whenever I feel hungry, and don't exercise at all... OOPS!

I guess I better sell my setup so I can loose some weight lol.

So, CA$H, where did you get this rediculously stupid idea for a thread from?

It gets me mad, for a long time I thought ca$h rocked, then thought he was cool, then thought he should get his name back, etc.....

Now I question this... not because he's calling people fat (indirectly, of course), but because he actually has to come up, and decide to say "I HATE FAT PEOPLE!"

Who gives a ****?

Actually, I find it truth that whenever you go to JCPenny, or other stores, the first things to sell are the size 44+ pants and XXL shirts. They keep the prices on small clothing NEARLY the same because so much of it ends up going to places like ross and such because nobody buys it.

Come to think of it, my size 42 pants were feeling tight a few weeks ago, now I have to wear my belt tight or they start sagging... *shrug* I wonder what happened.

I have a big a$$ btw, probably 60% of my body weight is there, want me to sit on you? I'd probably smash every bone in your body.

[Mac Zealot]

oh yeah, thought I'd share this little piece of funny story too:

last year I had a PE teacher who was also a coach for the school's football team (ugh I hate sports).....

Anyway he would usually exercise with the class, etc, and do that about 4 times a day, yet he still weighed a lot more than I did (and was shorter... go figure).

But damn he was probably healthy like a horse, as he was one of a small group of people who could outrun me.

(Maybe 7 minute miles are bad!?!?!?!!)

SO tell me ca$h, what's the most you can pick up (just a regular item), and how quick can you run? walk?

I do blame myself for my fatness, but I can't sit around being depressed,

Anyway, just for the fun of it:

fastest mile: 7 minutes, 50 seconds
most I can pick up at random: about 200-300lbs
average walk speed: VERY quick (I guess 5mph)

my mile right now would probably be around low 9 mins run. hehe.

Still, could care less, at the moment I can't really devote the time required (I'm really serious), and such, so meh.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
Truth is, I think I'll contribute more to the world (and myself + my ego, etc) if I am a lardass who's happy with myself, and makes other people happy, than a stick thin figure who just pisses everyone off.

...Why would you have to be a thin person who just pisses everyone off?

What the hell is the correlation people keep coming up with... thin = bitter?

What bullshit...

[Mac Zealot]

no correlation.

I have met nice thin people before

was talking about ca$h.

ok, so what now?

I'm fat... waay too fat, I'll just die anyway, why not jump off a bridge and save myself from society?!!??!!?!?!

Better yet... I'll go to the gym and play sports, and sweat my ass off.

Yet I could have made more money and had more fun coding a new and revolutionary program.

hehe.

I know, I want to be that basedow guy on tv who shows off his body all the time.....

NOT!

What does being skinny get me that I don't already have being fat?

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
no correlation.

I have met nice thin people before

was talking about ca$h.

ok, so what now?

I'm fat... waay too fat, I'll just die anyway, why not jump off a bridge and save myself from society?!!??!!?!?!

Better yet... I'll go to the gym and play sports, and sweat my ass off.

Yet I could have made more money and had more fun coding a new and revolutionary program.

hehe.

I know, I want to be that basedow guy on tv who shows off his body all the time.....

NOT!

What does being skinny get me that I don't already have being fat?

Um... I dunno... there's an off chance that for some reason you might start making some sense?

[Mac Zealot]

Originally posted by Cipher13:


Um... I dunno... there's an off chance that for some reason you might start making some sense?

LOL, k, whatever, I've had enough for tonight (erm, this morning!!!)

[RedSwingline]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:

So, CA$H, where did you get this rediculously stupid idea for a thread from?

Hehe - that was my doing. See, a couple of days ago, Ca$h decided to start a thread called "why I hate the DMV" or something like that. In his top-10 David Letterman list of why he hates the DMV, our witty friend Ca$h decided to list the fat people that work at the DMV. TWICE. So, I called him on it.

He basically told me to shut the he!! up and started this new, invigorating thread as a soapbox for yet another prejudice and thing that he hates (as if we really care). Funny how he always starts bonfires then leaves the room. Has anyone else here seen another post by him since he started ranting "I hate fat people dude, cuz they're lazy and they suck - yeah, that's the ticket."??

And since Ca$h lit this particular bonfire, I've been surprised to see a lot of ignorant remarks here, but I've also seen a lot of educated ones too. By far the most ignorant remark I've seen here yet is by the Hong Kong fool who said that if any group of people should be destroyed, fat people should be at the top of the list. After all, they're definitely more of a menace to the world at large (no pun intended) than, say, maniacs who fly passenger jets into buildings.

In the 20th Century alone, we've made tremendous strides in combatting racism, sexism and even prejudice against gays. But fat people ridicule and hate is really the last acceptable prejudice.

This isn't to say we don't have a problem with this in America - clearly we do, and it is a little frightening, I do have the book "Fast Food Nation" and plan to read it soon. But prejudice is rooted in ASSUMPTIONS. And this is no different.

People like Ca$h - and after reading this thread it's scary to realize how many out there think like he does on this subject (I thought people were more intelligent than that) - ASSUME that fat people eat junk food all the time, are lazy, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth, as we've seen by many of the posts here. Fact is, if everybody ate the same things and worked out at the same rate, WE'D STILL ALL BE DIFFRERENT SHAPES AND SIZES. Fact, not assumption. The reason Mr. Hong Kong hardly sees any fat people is because he lives in a country with a more or less singular race of people. American bloodlines are mixed and far more diverse. So who is he or anybody else to dictate what someone should look like?

My biggest question of all though is, Why do people like Ca$h give a shite? Really? Why does anyone care what someone else looks like? Why are we as a culture so obsessed with LOOKS? Can anyone answer this? Seems it's not enough just to be a good person in our society.

So that was really my point with calling Ca$h out on this one. Besides, isn't it great fun seeing him time and again make a ridiculous a$$ out of himself?

Originally posted by macvillage.net:

One funny note: I can pretty much tell exactly who is "fat" and who isn't by reading replies.

Prove it.

[RedSwingline]

Originally posted by hayesk:


Prove it.

He can't. That's the beauty of a discussion board.

I've already admitted to my weight problems (i'm NOT obese, but need to lose), but as for others, how does he know if maybe we just know someone who's fat, or are related to someone who's fat? Or maybe is just not an ignorant pi$$head in general?

Here's what it feels like: It feels like a war. You fight a battle every single day of your life, for the rest of your life, and it only gets worse as you get older. On top of that, you have judgmental people dictating to you what you should look like. Not a day goes by that you don't think about it, feel guilty about it, feel like you could do more, be more, etc., but then you get hungry like everyone else, and you have to eat like everyone else. So you eat, doesn't matter what, and then the cycle perpetuates itself, fed by 'ramuses like Ca$h.

Don't we have more important problems in the world?

[kman42]

I don't hate obese people; I try to judge people as individuals. Obesity is a serious problem in this country and it comes with a heavy cost.

Those two statements pretty much sum up my position on the subject. I know overweight people that I like very much. Every obese person I know, and most obese people in general, could weigh less if they ate a healthy diet and excercised. There are some peole with legitimate health problems that make it more difficult to lose weight, but there exists many medical options now for helping people afflicted with these maladies as well.

Obesity is a huge public health issue in this country and most people tend to deny it. Sorry to say it, but Cash is correct when he says that obese people place excessive demands on the health care system. Diabetes, cardiac problems, stroke, hypertension, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, and several forms of cancer are just a few of the diseases for which obesity is a major risk factor. Obese people have a 50-100% increased risk of death. Direct and indirect costs of obesity top $99 billion dollars/year in this country, almost double that of smoking ($47 billion) (Wolf AM, Colditz GA. Current estimates of the economic cost of obesity in the United States. Obes Res. 1998;6(2):97-106.). Note that study was from four years ago and as the graph posted above points out, we are getting fatter quickly. The costs are likely MUCH greater now.

Furthermore, overweight people generally eat more than thinner people. More consumption equals more drain on the planet's resources. If everyone in the world consumed as much as Americans (of all consumables, not just food), it would take 3.5 earths to satisfy our needs. People who eat diets low in meat products are significantly thinner than those who eat diets high in meat products. Raising meat products is much more destructive to the environment than growing food crops. Although the ecological issues involved in obesity are a bit more tangential, they are nevertheless relevant to a discussion of the costs of obesity.

Since only 22% of adults in the United States get enough physical activity (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Physical Activity and Health: A Report of the Surgeon General. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1996.), most individuals could take personal responsibility for their diet and excercise habits and lose weight. However, it would be ignorant to say that it is an easy thing to do in our society. We live in a nation where the beef industry portrays its product as healthy, where MacDonalds and Burger King are being served in our children's school cafeterias, and where physical activity is more often observed on television than actually practiced. Our society and our favorite corporations bear a large burden of responsible for the obesity problem in this country. As someone else mentioned, read Fast Food Nation for an accessible entry into this topic.

Eat less meat, avoid fast food, eat more vegetables, and go outside and do something for a change. It is a complicated issue, but one our society really needs to face. And quickly, as our children are already fatter than we are.

kman

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by El Pre$idente:


Fat people seem to have spread from the stupidest and most religious states in the US. Maybe they were scared of crucifixion and thought: If Jesus was super fat they wouldn't have been able to put him up on the cross.

I admire your super-intellect

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by kman42:
I don't hate obese people; I try to judge people as individuals. Obesity is a serious problem in this country and it comes with a heavy cost.

Those two statements pretty much sum up my position on the subject. I know overweight people that I like very much. Every obese person I know, and most obese people in general, could weigh less if they ate a healthy diet and excercised. There are some peole with legitimate health problems that make it more difficult to lose weight, but there exists many medical options now for helping people afflicted with these maladies as well.

Obesity is a huge public health issue in this country and most people tend to deny it. Sorry to say it, but Cash is correct when he says that obese people place excessive demands on the health care system. Diabetes, cardiac problems, stroke, hypertension, gallbladder disease, osteoarthritis, and several forms of cancer are just a few of the diseases for which obesity is a major risk factor. Obese people have a 50-100% increased risk of death. Direct and indirect costs of obesity top $99 billion dollars/year in this country, almost double that of smoking ($47 billion) (Wolf AM, Colditz GA. Current estimates of the economic cost of obesity in the United States. Obes Res. 1998;6(2):97-106.). Note that study was from four years ago and as the graph posted above points out, we are getting fatter quickly. The costs are likely MUCH greater now.

Furthermore, overweight people generally eat more than thinner people. More consumption equals more drain on the planet's resources. If everyone in the world consumed as much as Americans (of all consumables, not just food), it would take 3.5 earths to satisfy our needs. People who eat diets low in meat products are significantly thinner than those who eat diets high in meat products. Raising meat products is much more destructive to the environment than growing food crops. Although the ecological issues involved in obesity are a bit more tangential, they are nevertheless relevant to a discussion of the costs of obesity.

Since only 22% of adults in the United States get enough physical activity (U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Physical Activity and Health: A Report of the Surgeon General. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 1996.), most individuals could take personal responsibility for their diet and excercise habits and lose weight. However, it would be ignorant to say that it is an easy thing to do in our society. We live in a nation where the beef industry portrays its product as healthy, where MacDonalds and Burger King are being served in our children's school cafeterias, and where physical activity is more often observed on television than actually practiced. Our society and our favorite corporations bear a large burden of responsible for the obesity problem in this country. As someone else mentioned, read Fast Food Nation for an accessible entry into this topic.

Eat less meat, avoid fast food, eat more vegetables, and go outside and do something for a change. It is a complicated issue, but one our society really needs to face. And quickly, as our children are already fatter than we are.

kman

and the bulimic and aneorexic do not need medical attention, right?
And, quite frankly, lets get rid of women. they go through the natural resources used to make tampons that could be better used by men, who do not need tampons. And, heck, there's whole conglomerates based on women's health issues...my health care money going to a completely different sex that doesn't benefit me at all. And what about sickle cell??? I mean, what a drain on the health care system THAT is. oh! oh! and what about smokers? TALK ABOUT A DRAIN ON THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. huh? how about those lazy idiotic people? I mean, they don't HAVE to smoke and get lung cancer, right?
And while we're at it, those frickin losers that claim to have ADD, costing the health care industry millions each year just because they're frickin losers who can't learn how to behave in class like the rest of us.

oh! I could go ON AND ON AND ON AND ON....

This measure of sarcasm is brought to you by the letters Q and X.

[kman42]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:

and the bulimic and aneorexic do not need medical attention, right?

These are also serious medical disorders, but far fewer people are afflicted and, therefore, they do cost society substantially less. That is not to say that awareness or prevention of these diseases should be neglected.

And, quite frankly, lets get rid of women. they go through the natural resources used to make tampons that could be better used by men, who do not need tampons. And, heck, there's whole conglomerates based on women's health issues...my health care money going to a completely different sex that doesn't benefit me at all.

I won't even dignify that with a thoughtful rebuttal other than to say that much more money and research has been dedicated to the cure of predominantly male-related diseases over the last century than to predominantly female-associated diseases.

And what about sickle cell???

You would blame someone with sickle cell for having a genetic disorder? Talk about sick. Sickle cell is a non-preventible disease. While there are genetic factors contributing to some cases of obesity, personal habits and our culture are much greater contributors.

oh! oh! and what about smokers? TALK ABOUT A DRAIN ON THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. huh? how about those lazy idiotic people? I mean, they don't HAVE to smoke and get lung cancer, right?

I think most people would agree that smoking cigarettes is hazardous to your health and there is a concerted nationwide effort to get people to quit. I already pointed out the relative costs of obesity v. smoking. Wouldn't it be nice if we spent as much on preventing obesity as we do to prevent smoking?

And while we're at it, those frickin losers that claim to have ADD, costing the health care industry millions each year just because they're frickin losers who can't learn how to behave in class like the rest of us.

oh! I could go ON AND ON AND ON AND ON....

Please don't.

This measure of sarcasm is brought to you by the letters Q and X.

Let's just say that I hope you were being sarcastic and don't actually believe the things you posted.

kman

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by kman42:
Let's just say that I hope you were being sarcastic and don't actually believe the things you posted.

kman

no...duh! the whole thing was sarcastic, to make a point. I don't know how to label it more clearly for the sarcasm-impaired.

My point was, how easy it is to assign negative personality traits to a condition or disease that you don't have, nor is it humane to blame the "impact on health care" on the sick or people with conditions you don't have. That is what the health care system is for in the first place.

[kman42]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:


no...duh! the whole thing was sarcastic, to make a point. I don't know how to label it more clearly for the sarcasm-impaired.

My point was, how easy it is to assign negative personality traits to a condition or disease that you don't have, nor is it humane to blame the "impact on health care" on the sick or people with conditions you don't have. That is what the health care system is for in the first place.

I'm glad you were being sarcastic. However, I disagree that it is inhumane to point out the "impact on health care" just because one doesn't share an affliction. The POINT of the health care system is to make people healthier. Unfortunately, most people in our country do not realize that this is easiest and cheapest when done from a standpoint of prevention rather than long-term care once a particular ailment becomes chronic.

Just because I am not obese and I don't smoke doesn't mean that it is inhumane of me to point out the societal costs of these problems. I never said that the health care system shouldn't take care of people with an obesity problem, I was simply pointing out that obesity is, in fact, a major health care issue with a large cost to society and one that deserves greater attention with more emphasis placed on prevention. [An interesting related topic is why we allow corporations to sell low-fat, low-cal food alternatives, but not tobacco-less cigarettes. Maybe it has something to do with the tobacco farmers ]

Your supposition that I was assigning negative personality traits to a condition is also a fallacy. I gave very precise statistics showing that while more than 50% of the people in our country are overweight, less than a quarter of our populace gets enough excercise. Someone else pointed out the rapid increase in obesity in our country over the last decade. It is indisputable that a large part of the obesity problem is due to certain personal habits. However, I also pointed out that the society we live in perpetuates these habits from a very early age making it that much more difficult to develop healthier habits.

kman

[RedSwingline]

Lerkfish, you rock! Your sarcasm was right on!

Incidentally, the biggest drain on world-wide resources is OVERPOPULATION. There are too many of us, and many cultures won't use birth control, so while we're here to some extent controlling our numbers, far too many others aren't, and it's out of control. And let's be clear - why do so many people think that all obese people eat more than skinny people? Plenty don't, and I have several skinny co-workers who put away far more food than I ever could.

Why don't you save the "drain on our natural resources" crap for the religious freaks who think every sperm is sacred and the corporations that keep tearing up wildlands to accomodate more and more of us? Obesity's but a drop in the bucket compared to them.

[iNub]

There are ways to express dislike without openly attacking people. I guess some weenies who can't stand up for themselves in real life have to go to some random internet board and pick on whatever stereotype they can find that they're not in. Perhaps some of the people on this board should get a life that doesn't involve that pathetic couple square inches of monitor space. The world does not stand on a desk.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by kman42:
Your supposition that I was assigning negative personality traits to a condition is also a fallacy.

you're trying to put a shoe I intended for many people on your particular feet. I was responding to the thread in general.
However, the fact that you quote statistics does not prevent you from being a bigot against overweight people. I could also quote any amount of statistics to back up my sarcastic points above, that you felt were reprehensible.

[Elzinazi68]

There's a difference between FAT and chunky. I'm not talking about someone overweight. I'm talking about the fat asses that weigh like 250+. FAT with in all caps. F A T. I don't like lazy people. Do you? Lazy= Fat. I hope some of you can understand this.

- Ca$h

[kman42]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:



However, the fact that you quote statistics does not prevent you from being a bigot against overweight people.

I don't have any clue where you are coming from. There is nothing in either of my posts that could be construed as bigotry. All I did was point out that obesity is a public health problem that should be addressed better by our society. Denying it is like saying that smoking or alcoholism isn't a public health problem.

None of my posts have exhibited any amount of prejudice, hatred, or discriminatory language, so I suggest you calm the f*ck down and re-read what I actually did write.

kman

[RedSwingline]

Originally posted by Elzinazi68:
There's a difference between FAT and chunky. I'm not talking about someone overweight. I'm talking about the fat asses that weigh like 250+. FAT with in all caps. F A T. I don't like lazy people. Do you? Lazy= Fat. I hope some of you can understand this.

- Ca$h

BWAHAHAHAHA!! Man, you really are a dumba$$!!

You're absolutely right, Ca$h - all lazy people are fat. There are absolutely no skinny lazy people! Nope, never did a skinny lazy person ever exist in the whole world! How could they be lazy? After all, they're skinny!! SKINNY = NOT LAZY. Wow, Ca$h, what a genius you are!

Why don't you get a friggin life and quit adopting yet another username?

[iNub]

Originally posted by Elzinazi68:
There's a difference between FAT and chunky. I'm not talking about someone overweight. I'm talking about the fat asses that weigh like 250+. FAT with in all caps. F A T. I don't like lazy people. Do you? Lazy= Fat. I hope some of you can understand this.

- Ca$h

After a post like that, one has to wonder... Do you ever forget to breathe?

[Yippi]

Originally posted by nvaughan3:
my opinion:

in the vast, overwhelming majority of cases it comes down to personal responsibility. After five years of college and a year off afterwards, my weight had ballooned up to 240. (I'm 6'0"). What was a pot belly as a freshman grew to a full keg this summer. I was fat, out of shape, and sick of it. So were the ladies.

So I set out to change my life. Quit smoking after ten years of 2 packs a day. Gave up drinking every night. Stopped eating out. Starting counting calories. Began to get on the treadmill every day. Bought a weight bench so I could work out.

And only 8 weeks later I've shed 19 pounds and 3% body fat. I've doubled by max bench press and the gut is slowly but surely going away. It was MY fault that I let myself get fat, and I was going to be the one to fix it. I'm hoping I can get down to 180 or so, my recommended body weight.

Congratulations on your weight loss. You realized some bad habits were the direct cause of your weight gain and you have done something about it. Best of luck and Keep it up! ( The exercise, not the weight)

Yippi

[Yippi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DaKiwi2788:
[B]

I agree about the fast food companies, but I think you are being a little judgemental. People going through chemotherapy, suffering from diabetes, or those with metabolic problems often can't help things. I did kickboxing with a 200 pound woman, she never missed a class, but she just couldn't lose the weight; however, she was probably healthier than most people in the class and she ate well.

Never missed a class and never missed a meal. How do you know if she was healthy and that she ate well?

[ink]

Originally posted by RedSwingline:
and work out 100 hours a week.

And how many resources do gyms eat up? I used to be 200lbs (5'11" -- I don't know if that's obese, but it's definately not skinny), and just being so makes you feel like **** already. I've been at around 175 for the last 7 years, so I'm better now, but I don't hate fat people.

My mother-in-law was complaining that she had to buy 2 plane tickets for a trip she took, and I had no sympathy for her. I don't think that qualifies as "hate", though, because I really do love her. She was angry with the airline (Southwest) for not accomodating her...

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Yippi:
Never missed a class and never missed a meal. How do you know if she was healthy and that she ate well?

how do you know that she never missed a meal, or was unhealthy? He at least has the opportunity to have directly observed the person over a period of time. You, however, have only your anti-weight prejudice to guide you, without direct observation.

I think I'm going to believe..........the person with direct observation data.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Yippi:


Congratulations on your weight loss. You realized some bad habits were the direct cause of your weight gain and you have done something about it. Best of luck and Keep it up! ( The exercise, not the weight)

Yippi

hm. too bad your patronizing judgementalism isn't recognized as a bad habit by you so you could start working it off.

[ink]

Originally posted by sealobo:

Welcome to the Babyboomers getting old.
Are we gonna start putting them on the treadmill now?