[namannik]

Earlier today there was an article on MacNN about installing Windows XP on a Mac Book Pro. Now the article is gone. The article referenced the following page:

http://neosmart.net/blog/dual-bootin...-on-a-macbook/

What gives? Why did the article disappear from MacNN?

[uicandrew]

because the author was admittedly talking about theoreticals. The original macnn article talked about it like it had been accomplished.

The person who wrote the instructions admitted that he didn't have an intel mac of any kind, not even a iMac (let alone the MacBook).

so the article was misleading. the best you could call the article was thoughts about how to get windows xp to work. besides, many people have tried to do so, not just with words, but actual actions on the iMacs. And many a iMacs have been "sacrificed" or return policy abused as a result of the hard work of others.

[icruise]

I saw that same page linked to by a bunch of mac blogs before people realized that he had NO idea what he was talking about.

[clbell]

Yeah, the guy that wrote that really has not followed the issue very well. His plan would fail at step 1. Also, there is a solution to the brickified iMacs. Apparently, there is a backup EFI that can be reset if you mess up the active EFI.

[dsteinman]

Why would someone want to do this ? One of the main reasons for buying a Mac is to get away from the horrors of Windows..

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by dsteinman

Why would someone want to do this ? One of the main reasons for buying a Mac is to get away from the horrors of Windows..

I would

I don't mean I'd abandon OSX but I'd setup it up as dual boot. Why, because I cannot do all that I need in OSX, sad but true. There are software packages that available for windows that are not for the Mac. There are win applications that have more features and/or run better then their OSX counterpart. Take quicken and quickbooks, those two applications are much richer feature wise on windows then on OSX.

Finally while this may sound like heresey to some here, windows (xp) isn't half bad. I have to use it at work and its stable its a lot more open then OSX is, i.e., I can theme windows muich better then Tiger.

Mike

[iomatic]

Theming Windows means it's more open than OS X?

Uh. OK.

I'd say that having Unix underpinnings and embedded server applications (MySQL, Postfix, Apache, PHP, et al.) are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more useful than having QuickBooks do payroll.

Yes, I run a business too, just fine without frickin' Windows. Except for the occasional @#%$ IE 6 testing, really, no one in this great green world needs Windows.

Just a thought.

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by iomatic

Theming Windows means it's more open than OS X?

Uh. OK.

I'd say that having Unix underpinnings and embedded server applications (MySQL, Postfix, Apache, PHP, et al.) are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more useful than having QuickBooks do payroll.

Yes, I run a business too, just fine without frickin' Windows. Except for the occasional @#%$ IE 6 testing, really, no one in this great green world needs Windows.

Just a thought.

Yeah, until you think about the whole wide world of business, rather than just your own little shop. Show me an OS X replacement for Active Directory forests spanning a whole continent, Exchange handling 10's of thousands of users, and roaming profiles for each of those users that can be used on any system at the business, as well as at home on a laptop connected through your home wifi.

OS X is great, but it's no replacement for Windows in a heavy-duty infrastructure as is present in many big-name companies.

[iomatic]

True dat.

But.

OS X Server runs LDAP, and Postfix has lots more standards-based options for mail filtering, etc. It's just one paradigm that's different for running a network infrastructure; if you're glued to Exchange, of course the world is all about Windows and IIS. But screw that; it's a closed standard, and it's an expensive Microsoft product.

Anyway, we're talking about Mac clients and client OS, not Mac servers. At least, that's what the topic appears to be.

[Rumz]

It never ceases to amaze me that as soon as one person mentions installing XP on a Mac, a whole bunch of people inevitably ask “why would you want to put XP on a Mac?” And the answer is that I don’t think that any single person wants to replace OS X with XP on a Mac— that would pointless in my opinion.

There should be some good Windows emulation in the future that should enable people to use a number of Windows applications without too much of a performance hit.

Some people want to run XP just cause they can. Others have software they still want to use that won’t run or doesn’t run well enough under emulation. Games are a perfect example. Even if YOU yourself don’t play games... To someone who does but also wants to use a Mac— bingo, they just got 2 computers for the price of one. They can run not just Windows, but anything that runs on Intel architecture.

For the person who’s always used a Mac and thinks that Mac is all there is/should be, that’s fine— you don’t need to consider XP at all. But for a lot of people... Being able to run XP is what will tip them towards buying a Mac— so they can have Apple’s great software and hardware and not have to lose the things they want/need that they can only get on PC. Is that really so hard to believe? Is it really a bad thing if the Mac becomes more versatile?

What if someone wanted to run a version of Linux along side with OS X? Would you balk at that too?

It’s true that in the grand scheme of things that it will be relatively few who actually do install and run windows on their mac side by side with OS X. Most peopel who buy a Mac will just use the OS that comes installed on it. But to me that just gives the Mac that much more value. Why must Mac zealots be so narrow minded?

[iomatic]

I'm no zealot. I happen to have (note past-tense) used lots of Windows versions alongside the Mac OS), and in large and small corporate settings (read: large sports apparel company), and the Mac OS wins hands down every time. All I ever see is Exchange problems, XP viruses, while all the Mac users quietly continue their work. It's not being narrow-minded, it's just being smart.

And with someone with sub-2-digit post count (2 as of this writing), watch your tongue, boy! You might get ferreted out as a troll!

Note friendly sarcasm smiley:




...

[Tomchu]

I've visited Global TV's studio in Burnaby, BC a number of times, and even applied for a job there, and the entire system is AD + Windows 2000, and it's an AD setup that spans from Victoria to Ottawa. In all of my time spent there, I have yet to see any of the tech directors, sound engineers, or other employees having problems with their Windows systems, let alone viruses or worms. Global hires competent sys admins.

It's all about the sys admins. If you patch when the patch is released, you won't be hit with the worm that rapes the Internet three months later.

[Rumz]

Apple has been slowly winning me over for the last few years— it’s taken some time to sell me on it. Even if you're not a zealot, there are many who are. You have logical reasons and have used both, so your arguments for Mac OS are valid. I just know a lot of people who’ve never used anything else (and they may not need to) but their arguments hold less weight because it’s based more on the Mac being a status symbol than any real practical reasoning.

But my point is, there are reasons why at least *some* people would find dual-OS useful, even if it doesn't make sense for you to do it personally. If I get Windows rolling on my MacBook, I'll likely boot to OS X 99% of the time. But there may be times when I'd like to play games or use something that hasn’t been ported to Mac.

It’s simply a reply to “why would someone want to do this?”

Most people won’t— a few of us might

[JKT]

One group of people that would probably die to be able to dual boot would be cross-platform developers - the ultimate development system is one that will allow you to run every system on the same machine. Another group is web developers for the same reason. Another is schools where the argument for not going Mac and going Dell because it doesn't run Windows would be blown out of the water. It would also be the ultimate future proofing for any organisation - if Windows or Mac OS market share started to fall catastrophically they wouldn't face a hardware penalty for switching away to a different OS.

It could also be a bonus for people forced to use Windows at work... OK I do actually need to use Windows for x, y, z work app but I'd rather do my word processing and browsing and everything else in Mac OS and now I can...

Personally I would much prefer virtualisation so that you could run certain Windows apps from within OS X so that it wouldn't be necessary to constantly reboot, but there are situations where dual-booting is attractive to some.

[mduell]

The fourth-gen Centrino platform ("Santa Rosa"), due early next year, is supposed to support Vanderpool/VT (along with 800FSB and possibly WiMAX and 802.11n). Simultaneous dual booting is hot.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I would

I don't mean I'd abandon OSX but I'd setup it up as dual boot. Why, because I cannot do all that I need in OSX, sad but true. There are software packages that available for windows that are not for the Mac. There are win applications that have more features and/or run better then their OSX counterpart. Take quicken and quickbooks, those two applications are much richer feature wise on windows then on OSX.

Finally while this may sound like heresey to some here, windows (xp) isn't half bad. I have to use it at work and its stable its a lot more open then OSX is, i.e., I can theme windows muich better then Tiger.

Mike

Sounds like you are using the wrong platform all together.Maflynn, you need to be using a PC full time. What's the point of you using the Mac platform? In your own words, XP isn't half bad and the software packages available for Windows are not for the Mac and there are Win apps that have more features and run better than their OSX counterpart? I'm just quoting these words of you because this is the dialog that would come from a person that needs to be using the Windows platform.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a Windows PC but to dual boot should be only be for a convenience feature such as VPC. You seem to have had the Pros in Windows outweigh the Pros in the Mac. You, my friend are on the wrong platform.

[dsteinman]

Take quicken and quickbooks

I used Quicken on PC (in the dark days) and now on a Mac. I prefer the Mac version. I did not like the modal windows on the pc version I was using, and Mac quicken does everything I need it to, and trust me, my life revolves around Quicken.

But OS X does not have the little XP dog, or the cute little office paperclip, and all these wonderful little popups that come up every 5 minutes (yes, I know I have unused icons on my desktop thank you).. XP also requires too many restarts on updates, installs etc, and man do I miss restarting! Maybe I should start rebooting my Mac a few times a week just to get my restart fix. Since I don't have themes maybe I could tape some colored celluloid to my flat panel to emulate it.

I would never put XP on a mac for the same reason I opted not to use Virtual PC, one of the reasons I bought the Mac was to get away from the bottomless pit of Windows security issues. Why would I bring these nightmares to my Macs ?

[dsteinman]

Originally Posted by JKT

One group of people that would probably die to be able to dual boot would be cross-platform developers - the ultimate development system is one that will allow you to run every system on the same machine. .

Difficult to do source level debugging when your tools run on one environment, and your real target on another. Now if both environments could run concurrently on the same physical machine..

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by hldan

Sounds like you are using the wrong platform all together.Maflynn, you need to be using a PC full time. What's the point of you using the Mac platform? In your own words, XP isn't half bad and the software packages available for Windows are not for the Mac and there are Win apps that have more features and run better than their OSX counterpart? .

I'm not using the wrong platform, I use a Mac because I believe the hardware and software are superior. Does that mean that all things being windows is bad and evil. To many people here yes that seems to be the case. While I'm usually a black and white guy myself, I don't see computing that way.

While I agree that people can run a business on the Mac (I ran the church books on mine) there is a plethora of software available for the PC and no amount of arguing is going to change that. Take autocad, its available only for the PC and I wouldn't even try running that in VPC. Quickbooks on the PC is superior. It seems for companies that sell both platforms, many release a mac version later then the pc counterpart and sometimes with less features. Again I trot out intuit. Just walk through your local compusa and see what's available, then take a walk through an apple store. Night and day.

Is it bad that I like to use both? It seems to some people yes. Now windows isn't perfect by a long shot. First off there's the activation - I hate big brother but unforunitly it now seems adobe has gotten on this bandwagon. There's viruses, spyware. A somewhat inconsistant interface. OSX is more consistant. I believe OSX is superior in how is was implmented. One huge weakness on windows is the registry, not just for viruses but for system stability and a single point of weakness. Memory management is better in OSX. Windows is less stable and requires more reboots for no reason at all. I uninstalled a text editor and that required a reboot - why

I use both because I need to. One application called Qimage isn't available on the Mac and it helps me with my photography. The world isn't such place where I have to use one or the other. It amazes me to see that so many people are so narrow-minded when it comes to Mac or PC. I've used a Mac since system 7 days. I've used a PC since IBM came out with the XT. Both have their pluses and minuses.


Edit:
I didn't even touch base on the hardware. I think Apple's hardware is better designed and sexier then Dell or HP Just take the G5, sexy. Look at the Dell models and its oh hum.

Anyways to summarize I use what works best for me, I like Apple and Macs they better built longer lasting but Windows is not evil and fills a need.

Mike

[sxates]

I'm with you Maflynn. My repretoire is 2 powerbooks, 2 PC desktops. The build and design of the powerbooks are just so far and above everything PC, which is almost entirely plastic cases and squeaks. But I have no grudge against windows--it gives me occassional headaches, but so do the macs

The switch to intel brings some interesting possibilities--the flexibility of OSes with apple hardware has the potential to bring the best of both worlds to one machine. OSX is great, but Windows has its good points too--it isn't all bad at all. Vista is looking really promising too. Should be a very interesting next couple of years for the computer world for sure.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I'm not using the wrong platform, I use a Mac because I believe the hardware and software are superior. Does that mean that all things being windows is bad and evil. To many people here yes that seems to be the case. While I'm usually a black and white guy myself, I don't see computing that way.

While I agree that people can run a business on the Mac (I ran the church books on mine) there is a plethora of software available for the PC and no amount of arguing is going to change that. Take autocad, its available only for the PC and I wouldn't even try running that in VPC. Quickbooks on the PC is superior. It seems for companies that sell both platforms, many release a mac version later then the pc counterpart and sometimes with less features. Again I trot out intuit. Just walk through your local compusa and see what's available, then take a walk through an apple store. Night and day.

Is it bad that I like to use both? It seems to some people yes. Now windows isn't perfect by a long shot. First off there's the activation - I hate big brother but unforunitly it now seems adobe has gotten on this bandwagon. There's viruses, spyware. A somewhat inconsistant interface. OSX is more consistant. I believe OSX is superior in how is was implmented. One huge weakness on windows is the registry, not just for viruses but for system stability and a single point of weakness. Memory management is better in OSX. Windows is less stable and requires more reboots for no reason at all. I uninstalled a text editor and that required a reboot - why

I use both because I need to. One application called Qimage isn't available on the Mac and it helps me with my photography. The world isn't such place where I have to use one or the other. It amazes me to see that so many people are so narrow-minded when it comes to Mac or PC. I've used a Mac since system 7 days. I've used a PC since IBM came out with the XT. Both have their pluses and minuses.


Edit:
I didn't even touch base on the hardware. I think Apple's hardware is better designed and sexier then Dell or HP Just take the G5, sexy. Look at the Dell models and its oh hum.

Anyways to summarize I use what works best for me, I like Apple and Macs they better built longer lasting but Windows is not evil and fills a need.

Mike

It amazes me that you quoted my words but not all of them. I certainly remember stating that there was nothing wrong with using MS Windows. I just said that trying to dual boot should only be for a convenience. Having a separate PC is not a bad thing. If you are going to quote my words quote everything I say and not just what you felt was against you. And for the record while I am certainly not a PC user I said nothing negative about MS Windows.
There are programs on the Mac, especially pro apps that are not available for Windows such as Final Cut which is why you don't see Movie production studios using PC's to make movies. Most major motion films are done with Final Cut.
You mentioned AutoCad, Macs certainly will not replace PC's in the business world, if they do it will take a long time but the home market will be replaced very soon. By all means use both machines if it fills your needs but I would appreciate your quoting me properly before you jump to the defense.

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by hldan

It amazes me that you quoted my words but not all of them. I certainly remember stating that there was nothing wrong with using MS Windows. I just said that trying to dual boot should only be for a convenience. Having a separate PC is not a bad thing. If you are going to quote my words quote everything I say and not just what you felt was against you. And for the record while I am certainly not a PC user I said nothing negative about MS Windows.
There are programs on the Mac, especially pro apps that are not available for Windows such as Final Cut which is why you don't see Movie production studios using PC's to make movies. Most major motion films are done with Final Cut.
You mentioned AutoCad, Macs certainly will not replace PC's in the business world, if they do it will take a long time but the home market will be replaced very soon. By all means use both machines if it fills your needs but I would appreciate your quoting me properly before you jump to the defense.

Well my intent was not to offend but to address one specific piece of your post and that was the point of having the mac as my platform. I wanted to give the reasons why I thought that wrong. I do not and will never include a whole post when I only need to reference a piece of it.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by hldan

There are programs on the Mac, especially pro apps that are not available for Windows such as Final Cut which is why you don't see Movie production studios using PC's to make movies. Most major motion films are done with Final Cut.

Perhaps you've heard of Avid.

[Noved84]

Originally Posted by mduell

Perhaps you've heard of Avid.

Too bad avid is a piece of $&*@

[Noved84]

Has anyone heard of Half Life 2? It would be pretty sweet too be able to switch over, play some counter strike or Star Wars Empire at War, and switch back and do some Final Cut Pro.

But no, please, I'd rather limit my options if I can.