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prutz11 · Oct 3, 2003, 07:37 AM

Something went really wacky tonight. My girlfriend was using her account on my computer (she has an admin account). Right in the middle of using mail it crashed... when she opened it again it had the message "would you like to import any mail boxes?" Mail had lost her account completely. I then (of course calling her crazy) looked at the computer. I restarted mail and BOOM it was all of my mail. It had all of my information and was downloading my new mail. This my friends is a big bad thing. In theory there should be no access to my mail from her account at all. I can't access its folder through the finder.

So I am really confused. I launch proteus... from within her account... the program no longer has me as a registered user. It ask if I want to use the free trial. I started freaking out at this point. I can't save files anymore. Programs are crashing. All kinds of strange things are afoot here. I turned off the airport immediately. I stupidly had my firewall down because I was trying to get some video chat program to work right.

I fixed the disk permissions, thinking that the error must be there. There were a lot of errors. Including ones in netinfo and I have not touched that in a long time. Certainly not since the last time I fixed the permissions. The problems are not fixed either. I am at a loss here. Has this weirdness ever happened to anyone else? I was running lean on space 70mb left and I am using 10.2.6.

I just finished reading that book about Mitnick and watching a episode of Frontline about cyberwar. So I am freaked out. I am having visions that someone got into my system here, but I don't know the first thing about finding out if they did. Does anyone know the best way for a unix retard to verify that they have not been violated?

One more note. I did install Poisoned the other day. I only mention it because I saw the post about permissions gone bad.

SMacTech · Oct 3, 2003, 08:08 AM

Originally posted by prutz11:

I am at a loss here. Has this weirdness ever happened to anyone else? I was running lean on space 70mb left and I am using 10.2.6.

That is the source of your problem unfortunately and it is a known issue.

iRebound · Oct 3, 2003, 08:12 AM

yep, your lack of free HD space seems to be the problem. 70mb left wow? weird stuff happens when you don't have space on your drive.

do you have a cd burner or something? maybe you should do some backups.

try to have at least 500MB-1GB free.

prutz11 · Oct 3, 2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by iRebound:
yep, your lack of free HD space seems to be the problem. 70mb left wow? weird stuff happens when you don't have space on your drive.

do you have a cd burner or something? maybe you should do some backups.

try to have at least 500MB-1GB free.

Yeah. I had been downloading a bunch of stuff and kind of forgot about it. That is a pretty damn serious known issue to have. Run out of space and the computer forgets everything about you. Shoot.

Do you have any suggestions for recovering from this snaffu? Is there any trick for getting her account back in order?

And actually the questions about knowing if someone has violated you still stand. On OS X what is the best way to know you are being targeted, looked at or whatever?

Thanks for the informations guys. I hate it when I shoot myself in the preferences.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 3, 2003, 08:29 AM

Always keep a healthy 1 gig available at all times.

Oh, and Panther warns you when disk space runs low.

Xeo · Oct 3, 2003, 08:54 AM

As others have stated, the HD space was the cause.

You're mail SHOULD be there though. You might try importing those mailboxes from ~/Library/Mail to see if you can get it back (assuming it as POP). That's why I like using IMAP 'cause then all my mail is safely tucked away on a server somewhere. I tend to run out of HD space on my iBook far too often and lose my preferences just like that.

Developer · Oct 3, 2003, 10:04 AM

If you restore the Mail preferences from a backup, all your mail will be visible again.

C.J. Moof · Oct 3, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Xeo:
As others have stated, the HD space was the cause.

You're mail SHOULD be there though. You might try importing those mailboxes from ~/Library/Mail to see if you can get it back (assuming it as POP). That's why I like using IMAP 'cause then all my mail is safely tucked away on a server somewhere. I tend to run out of HD space on my iBook far too often and lose my preferences just like that.

Your server mail is as "safe" as the quality of the admin running the server. How much do you trust a stranger with your valuable data?

If you admin the mail server... well, then- disregard.

diamondsw · Oct 3, 2003, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Always keep a healthy 1 gig available at all times.

Oh, and Panther warns you when disk space runs low.

Just so people know, the major problems you run into with low disk space are:

1) You run out of room for swap space - very bad in such a heavily VM-based system as UNIX
2) You run out of space for preference file updates - this will frequently cause them to be deleted entirely (as many programs delete the old file then write the new file, only to find they can't)
3) Disk directory updates cannot occur properly

I've heard the rule of thumb is to keep 10% or so free. I tend to always keep several GB just to be safe.

Cadaver · Oct 3, 2003, 01:31 PM

It's your girlfriend's fault. Never let them touch the computer. My computer works fine until my wife uses it, then BAM! Instant crash. She needs a computer? Get her one of her own.

(and before you accuse me of mistreating women and go and destroy my chances of becoming govenor of California, the above post was made with tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Xeo · Oct 3, 2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by C.J. Moof:
Your server mail is as "safe" as the quality of the admin running the server. How much do you trust a stranger with your valuable data?

If you admin the mail server... well, then- disregard.

Yes, you are exactly right. I was going to post that I know my mail is backed up nightly to tape on one account, therefore safer than my own computer, and I am the admin of the other account, so,while I don't back it up as often, I trust myself with the data, and know to blame myself later (same as if it were on my iBook).

Not to mention, with IMAP you get the wonderful option of webmail along with regular e-mail clients. It comes in handy very often.

absmiths · Oct 3, 2003, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
Yes, you are exactly right. I was going to post that I know my mail is backed up nightly to tape on one account, therefore safer than my own computer, and I am the admin of the other account, so,while I don't back it up as often, I trust myself with the data, and know to blame myself later (same as if it were on my iBook).

Not to mention, with IMAP you get the wonderful option of webmail along with regular e-mail clients. It comes in handy very often.

I think he is referring to the integrity of the admin not to read your email. That isn't a concern of mine, but I know many people who fret about such things.

Developer · Oct 3, 2003, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
I think he is referring to the integrity of the admin not to read your email. That isn't a concern of mine, but I know many people who fret about such things.

POP doesn't protect you from that.
The biggest problem with IMAP is that you get only limited space for lots of money.

Geobunny · Oct 3, 2003, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Always keep a healthy 1 gig available at all times.

Oh, and Panther warns you when disk space runs low.

As does Jaguar...although it appears not to have worked in this instance. Odd

tRr · Oct 3, 2003, 06:02 PM

I sometimes have 0MB available on my drive and well I don't think thats a good idea, I've never had any problems permission related. I was aware of the Mail issue where when you open it with limited space it looses your mail and obviously that should be corrected, but it should NEVER be able to walk around the drive ignoring permissions, and this hasn't been the case for me when I have been at the low levels.

I think there must have been some permission problems before this happened and then it was just a weird combination of events that lead to what you experienced.

Good luck trying to get things running again

quandarry · Oct 3, 2003, 06:38 PM

yeah 1 gig min space...i can attest to that...

i was running a program with a bad memory leak and after about a half hour of heavy usage it wiped out most of my prefs...just trampled all over a lot of stuff...all because my disk was low...

prutz11 · Oct 3, 2003, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
I tend to run out of HD space on my iBook far too often and lose my preferences just like that.

Exactly the problem. Tibook 500mhz with 20 gigs of space.

What concerns me here is that its a big security hole as I see it. How the hell did my email... all of it... end up in her box. I mean there was nothing in there that I cared if she saw, but there is plenty of stuff I'd rather not have others see.

This sounds like an error that could be exploited by someone to gain access to areas they should not have access to.

Does panther prevent this stuff from happening? Okay it warns you... which is a step. But it sould not let you get to a point like this. Force the last 100mb to stay clear for use by the system.... something...

prutz11 · Oct 3, 2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by tRr:
I think there must have been some permission problems before this happened and then it was just a weird combination of events that lead to what you experienced.

Good luck trying to get things running again

You might be on to something there. If it is this is the case I would love to know just what the permission problems were. Regardless of how this happened... it happened and theoretically it should have been impossible. I am telling you there is some kind of hole here. I wish I knew more about how to find exactly what it is.

asxless · Oct 3, 2003, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Always keep a healthy 1 gig available at all times.

Excellent advice. But this level of free space is only required on the system partition.

Those of us who keep our user directories on a separate drive or partition, have far less opportunities to hose the System / Finder / Mail / etc. preferences/settings. Because our disk hogs (Download, iPhoto, iTunes, and Mail folders) are not jeopardizing the systems free space. FWIW you can run a separate partition down to near zero without worry.

BTW one interesting 'feature' of Entourage is that it usually shuts itself down (with a warning) when the system disk space gets critically low -- kind of like a canary in the coal mine

-- asxless in iland

tRr · Oct 3, 2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by prutz11:
You might be on to something there. If it is this is the case I would love to know just what the permission problems were. Regardless of how this happened... it happened and theoretically it should have been impossible. I am telling you there is some kind of hole here. I wish I knew more about how to find exactly what it is.

Yah, that is what I was trying to say, but you summed it up better then me.

Its almost scary to think, we basically trust the permissions to protect us, knowing that something like this could happen, even if most of us are just sharing the computer with our families, it's the principal that counts.

Did repair permissions make any changes to your Home folder or Library? Even so, what would make Mail venture that far away in search of e-mail? I know it didn't search that much when I started using it and when playing with Panther, I had to preciously show it where my data was.