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goMac · Apr 21, 2009, 06:58 PM

Anyone watch the Caprica pilot yet? It was actually a lot better than I was expected. It's not BSG, but it's not as bad as the BSG finale...

One annoying thing...

I didn't think any of the BSG references were all that subtle. It was like they were trying to cram the idea in our heads that the series were related. The repeated flashing of the electronic Cylon blueprints kind of got old, and I though the "Your real last name is Adama speech" was a bit overkill. We get it. It's connected.

On the plus side, at least they haven't royally screwed with the timeline. The lack of humanoid Cylons keeps things intact, for now...

goMac · Apr 21, 2009, 08:47 PM

One more thing that shocked me about it vs. BSG...

Generous amounts of female nudity right from the start...

Chuckit · Apr 21, 2009, 10:14 PM

Haven't watched it yet, but the above post has inspired me to check my local Target. (I actually totally forgot it was coming out this soon. Thanks for the heads up.)

goMac · Apr 21, 2009, 11:46 PM

It's also on iTunes.

besson3c · Apr 21, 2009, 11:47 PM

I just finished watching it, and was also quite impressed! It seems like they have quite the budget for this, the visuals are absolutely stunning. The closing scene kind of sent shivers up my spine!

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The closing scene kind of sent shivers up my spine!

Yeah, me too. That scene really sealed the deal for me and made me think "Hey, that can actually pull this off and it won't be a timeline destroying mess..."

The one thing I wasn't clear on...

Is she the same centurion who was being used in that drill earlier? If so... this could end badly...

Also, wtf, do copies not mean copies in the BSG universe? I thought he copied Zoe, so he should still have a backup of her data...

besson3c · Apr 22, 2009, 12:26 AM

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing about the backup thing.

I think this is a great looking series. Like BSG it's not really a sci-fi like traditional sci-fis that center around technology and cool stuff happening, it's a story about humanity that uses the genre to explore compelling themes. I can tell this will also be a series that deals with a lot of gray area subject matter, as the Pilot does.

I'm stoked!

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I think this is a great looking series. Like BSG it's not really a sci-fi like traditional sci-fis that center around technology and cool stuff happening, it's a story about humanity that uses the genre to explore compelling themes. I can tell this will also be a series that deals with a lot of gray area subject matter, as the Pilot does.

Yeah, I found myself agreeing with Greystone when he was arguing with Adama...

Except for the whole crazy actually bringing his daughter back from the dead part...

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 12:31 AM

Also, isn't it funny seeing little 11 year old Admiral Adama being picked up from school and looking absolutely bored?

besson3c · Apr 22, 2009, 12:33 AM

Do you guys have any theories as to what the connection is between the Daniel mentioned in the No Exit BSG episode and Daniel Graystone?

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Do you guys have any theories as to what the connection is between the Daniel mentioned in the No Exit BSG episode and Daniel Graystone?

I don't think there is one. Daniel Graystone invented the Cylons, so obviously he comes before them.

Chuckit · Apr 22, 2009, 06:21 AM

Holy cow, that was so much better than I thought it would be. (Granted, I had low expectations, but this was actually good.) It was better than the Battlestar Galactica pilot. The moral ambiguity was really well done — a lot of shows will try for moral ambiguity by making both sides look evil or both sides look good or giving a token "look, they're not so bad after all" to the side the show obviously disagrees with — but I really can't tell what's right or wrong on this one. It's kind of ironic given Zoe's black-and-white view of the world. Like, Daniel seems unhinged and we know he'll nearly bring about the end of the human race, but I still find myself agreeing with him.

Oh, and Zoe? Turned out to be a well-drawn character. From the show descriptions, she didn't sound very interesting at all. I was surprised to find that I was more interested in her than most of the story (including everything to do with the Adamas). And that part at the end with robo-her was awesomely creepy.

On the bad side, the science on this show makes me want to rip my hair out. The super-AIs are created by…Googling the subject? WTF? How does that reveal intricate details of the time Zoe hit her head and her dad held her hand? I would have left that ambiguous. And the computer representation of Zoe's consciousness can only exist in one place at a time for some reason? I think computers are commonplace enough these days for people to realize that data is replicated when you transfer it. But I guess that's necessary for narrative purposes.

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't think there is one. Daniel Graystone invented the Cylons, so obviously he comes before them.

Daniel Graystone invented Cylons, but the Cylons already existed before that. The BSG timeline seems to be horribly confused on this particular matter — maybe it has something to do with the "all this has happened before" thing, I dunno. The whole (fake) Earth was populated millennia ago by Cylons, including the Final Five and some centurions. The Final Five made the seven/eight skinjob Cylons to be their children. Then, much later, Daniel Graystone made Cylons on Caprica. At any rate, I don't think he's at all related to the Number Seven model that Ellen called Daniel — Ron Moore said Daniel was just introduced to give Ellen and Cavil something to discuss, not as a plot point.

Eug · 10:01 AM

Well, I definitely wasn't enthralled by that pilot.

1) I know we're supposed to suspend belief, but it seems rather odd that some bratty high school kid can accomplish something in AI that the head of a pioneering AI company can't figure out.

2) That something essentially was Google on steroids.

3) That religious mumbo jumbo is getting tiresome. After years of it on BSG, I was hoping to get away from it with Caprica, but it seems to have an even stronger relevance in Caprica than BSG.

4) The creator of a virtual world doesn't know what happens in that virtual world?

5) I constantly had the urge to slap that Zoe upside the head, for being an obnoxious teen. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of Coronation Street.

6) He had no backups of Zoe's data?

If the pilot is any indication, I'll be surprised if it lasts more than 2 seasons, and wouldn't be surprised if it's cancelled after the first season. Fortunately, often times the pilot is NOT any indication.

Chuckit · Apr 22, 2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

That religious mumbo jumbo is getting tiresome. After years of it on BSG, I was hoping to get away from it with Caprica, but it seems to have an even stronger relevance in Caprica than BSG.

That's one of the things I liked — it feels better integrated here. Sometimes it was OK on Galactica, but a lot of times it was like, "Oh, yeah, the humans are polytheistic and the Cylons are monotheistic. Thanks for reminding me." And in this case, it's more than mumbo-jumbo — Zoe and her boyfriend both really did have plans.

Originally Posted by Eug

4) The creator of a virtual world doesn't know what happens in that virtual world?

You really think Tim Berners-Lee knows everything that's happening on the World Wide Web?

Originally Posted by Eug

5) I constantly had the urge to slap that Zoe upside the head, for being an obnoxious teen. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of Coronation Street.

Ha, that's how I thought I was going to feel. Obviously that is her character, but I thought they avoided taking it too far. J. Adama's one note got more tiresome for me.

Eug · Apr 22, 2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That's one of the things I liked — it feels better integrated here. Sometimes it was OK on Galactica, but a lot of times it was like, "Oh, yeah, the humans are polytheistic and the Cylons are monotheistic. Thanks for reminding me." And in this case, it's more than mumbo-jumbo — Zoe and her boyfriend both really did have plans.

Well, I found it tedious in BSG, and I'm finding it tedious in Caprica too, which is why I think Caprica is in for an uphill battle ratings wise.

I do agree it's better integrated in Caprica in some ways, but I worry about the fact that the show seems to rely so heavily on it. And it's the classic we'll-do-the-opposite-of-the-real-world-to-emphasize-the-absurdity-of-it-all type of sci-fi story lines that were popular back in the 60s with Star Trek.

You really think Tim Berners-Lee knows everything that's happening on the World Wide Web?

I'm sure he knows that the internet is used for porn distribution, terrorist organisations, etc. whereas it almost sounded like daddy AI had no clue that his creation was used for these underground get togethers. You'd think that'd be the first thing people would gravitate to, yet it took yet another teen to point out again to him the first thing that his technology was used for in a big way was porn.

Chuckit · Apr 22, 2009, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

I'm sure he knows that the internet is used for porn distribution, terrorist organisations, etc. whereas it almost sounded like daddy AI had no clue that his creation was used for these underground get togethers. You'd think that'd be the first thing people would gravitate to, yet it took yet another teen to point out again to him the first thing that his technology was used for in a big way was porn.

I think he was more thinking, "OK, I knew this was used for porn, but I didn't realize it had been hacked by teenagers to perform virgin sacrifices."

besson3c · Apr 22, 2009, 11:35 AM

Eug: haven't you ever heard of suspension of disbelief? It doesn't matter whether the Google thing really makes sense.

Eug · Apr 22, 2009, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Eug: haven't you ever heard of suspension of disbelief? It doesn't matter whether the Google thing really makes sense.

besson3c, did you actually read my post?

1) I know we're supposed to suspend belief, but it seems rather odd that some bratty high school kid can accomplish something in AI that the head of a pioneering AI company can't figure out.

Anyways, one can suspend belief, but just saying "you should suspend belief" is not an answer to sloppy writing.

Chuckit · Apr 22, 2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Eug: haven't you ever heard of suspension of disbelief? It doesn't matter whether the Google thing really makes sense.

Part of suspension of disbelief is that the show needs to make it easy for us to do. I'm willing to ignore minor amounts of technobabble, but the science on this show felt like they were trying to insult my intelligence. It would have been much better if they'd just waved their hands and been like, "Yeah, we do this science thing and it makes an AI. Abracadabra!"

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Well, I definitely wasn't enthralled by that pilot.

1) I know we're supposed to suspend belief, but it seems rather odd that some bratty high school kid can accomplish something in AI that the head of a pioneering AI company can't figure out.

2) That something essentially was Google on steroids.

I dunno, I have a feeling that "inspiration via god" will come into it, and we have no idea how much Sister Clarence was involved (it's hinted at that she knows about the copy), but as long as it doesn't get to BSG levels....

I don't find the "Google on steroids" concept that far fetched. I mean, it wouldn't create a perfect copy, but you could do a pretty decent physiological analysis from that sort of stuff.

Originally Posted by Eug

3) That religious mumbo jumbo is getting tiresome. After years of it on BSG, I was hoping to get away from it with Caprica, but it seems to have an even stronger relevance in Caprica than BSG.

It doesn't seem too bad so far. I think the BSG finale set a new low for the god talk... we'll see.

Originally Posted by Eug

5) I constantly had the urge to slap that Zoe upside the head, for being an obnoxious teen. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of Coronation Street.

Yeah, I think that's the point... You're putting the worst possible candidate in a Cylon body.

Originally Posted by Eug

6) He had no backups of Zoe's data?

I think we mentioned that, but yeah, that was odd...

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Daniel Graystone invented Cylons, but the Cylons already existed before that. The BSG timeline seems to be horribly confused on this particular matter — maybe it has something to do with the "all this has happened before" thing, I dunno. The whole (fake) Earth was populated millennia ago by Cylons, including the Final Five and some centurions. The Final Five made the seven/eight skinjob Cylons to be their children. Then, much later, Daniel Graystone made Cylons on Caprica. At any rate, I don't think he's at all related to the Number Seven model that Ellen called Daniel — Ron Moore said Daniel was just introduced to give Ellen and Cavil something to discuss, not as a plot point.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Caprica is going to remain disconnected from that plot point.

It'll be interesting. I think you can see where the desire for the Cylons to have human bodies could be integrated into their programming from the start...

Eug · Apr 22, 2009, 12:02 PM

BTW, "Caprica" had that hyper-warm colour palette that also existed with the BSG version of Caprica.

I had thought that the justification for that colour palette in BSG was because it had been nuked. Am I mistaken? (Apparently so.)

besson3c · Apr 22, 2009, 12:12 PM

Sorry Eug, my response was a little too reactionary. I'm just hoping that this thread doesn't become another contest to make the best case as to why the show stinks to the detriment of those that enjoy it

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

BTW, "Caprica" had that hyper-warm colour palette that also existed with the BSG version of Caprica.

I had thought that the justification for that colour palette in BSG was because it had been nuked. Am I mistaken? (Apparently so.)

I'm not sure. Caprica (BSG) in flashbacks didn't. Maybe it was just a warm day?

Chuckit · Apr 22, 2009, 02:12 PM

Weird, I didn't notice the warm colors on my MBP screen. Did it stand out to everyone else?

goMac · Apr 22, 2009, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Weird, I didn't notice the warm colors on my MBP screen. Did it stand out to everyone else?

I didn't really notice it. I have a : cough : DiVX copy...

Yeah yeah... I just couldn't see paying $15 for a series that didn't look that good at the outset. If they keep it up I'll buy the season 1 DVD set... But I didn't notice any color issues.

(Also I wanted to stream it to my 360 later and iTunes won't let me do that.)

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 23, 2009, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

One more thing that shocked me about it vs. BSG...

Generous amounts of female nudity right from the start...

They gotta replace the space battles with something else the geeks will like.

goMac · Apr 23, 2009, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

They gotta replace the space battles with something else the geeks will like.

It's just sad that likely that's the only time we're going to get nudity in the whole series.

Chuckit · Apr 23, 2009, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

They gotta replace the space battles with something else the geeks will like.

I hear

is free.

Eug · Apr 23, 2009, 02:17 PM

As much as I like her... she's a terrible actor.

Chuckit · Apr 23, 2009, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

As much as I like her... she's a terrible actor.

You mean Summer? You say this based on what?

Eug · Apr 23, 2009, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You mean Summer? You say this based on what?

Based on her acting in Serenity/Firefly, Terminator, and 4400.

Chuckit · Apr 23, 2009, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Based on her acting in Serenity/Firefly, Terminator, and 4400.

Ah, I never saw 4400. Weird. I thought her acting in Firefly and especially Serenity was top-notch, and she was easily the best thing on Terminator.

goMac · Apr 23, 2009, 04:01 PM

I don't like her acting either...

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 23, 2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I hear

is free.

Is that Zoe? If so she was the only character I didn't like cuz she was so ugly with that big forehead and eyes that look they they will pop out.

analogue SPRINKLES · Apr 23, 2009, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

6) He had no backups of Zoe's data?

I assume he did as she got in that Cylon somehow.

jokell82 · Apr 23, 2009, 08:50 PM

I was incredibly bored by the pilot. The first hour just seemed to drag on, but the ending gave me a bit of hope for the show. I'm really hoping it picks up.

Eug · Apr 24, 2009, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Is that Zoe? If so she was the only character I didn't like cuz she was so ugly with that big forehead and eyes that look they they will pop out.

No. That's Summer Glau, of Serenity and Terminator: SCC fame... which is why I mentioned Serenity/Firefly, Terminator and 4400 when I said I didn't think she was a great actor.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

I assume he did as she got in that Cylon somehow.

He had one copy, that he transferred to that chip. However, it got corrupted, and Mr. Pioneering AI dude was devastated.

My interpretation of the fact she came back was just that her data actually wasn't fully corrupted, and after some self repair she came back as (mostly) herself.

goMac · Apr 24, 2009, 02:17 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

My interpretation of the fact she came back was just that her data actually wasn't fully corrupted, and after some self repair she came back as (mostly) herself.

Or even worse, she's the same Centurion that was used for the tests and the programming got mixed together...

RAILhead · Apr 24, 2009, 10:34 PM

I'm not reading all these posts since I'm still finishing-up watching the Pilot, but I can't help but wonder what the "TV Pilot" will be like when it comes out in 2010...? I guess they'll just skip all the gore and ta-tas?

goMac · Apr 24, 2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

I'm not reading all these posts since I'm still finishing-up watching the Pilot, but I can't help but wonder what the "TV Pilot" will be like when it comes out in 2010...? I guess they'll just skip all the gore and ta-tas?

Yeah, they've got to. The gore should be avoidable, they can just cut that scene short, it can be pretty easily implied what happens.

The tatas might be more difficult in since they're all over any scene in the virtual world.

RAILhead · May 1, 2009, 10:46 PM

Crap -- GREAT show so far!

Chuckit · May 2, 2009, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Yeah, they've got to. The gore should be avoidable, they can just cut that scene short, it can be pretty easily implied what happens.

The tatas might be more difficult in since they're all over any scene in the virtual world.

It's done in movies all the time: You just shoot two versions. Remember that scene in Swordfish with Halle's boobs? It's still in the TV version, but she's wearing a bikini.

(Yeah, I know, late response. I didn't have time when it was first posted and RAILhead's bump reminded me.)

goMac · May 2, 2009, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It's done in movies all the time: You just shoot two versions. Remember that scene in Swordfish with Halle's boobs? It's still in the TV version, but she's wearing a bikini.

(Yeah, I know, late response. I didn't have time when it was first posted and RAILhead's bump reminded me.)

True, but the question is if they have the TV budget for it...

Chuckit · May 2, 2009, 02:39 AM

The budget to reshoot about two minutes of footage featuring topless extras? If not, the sales of the one-episode DVD will probably cover it.

JHromadka · May 4, 2009, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

It's just sad that likely that's the only time we're going to get nudity in the whole series.

I wish all the female leads would have gotten naked so they could get that out of the way.

Shame that a show on cable TV ends up having the same standards as broadcast television.

Salty · May 4, 2009, 12:31 PM

I was pretty bored.

analogue SPRINKLES · May 5, 2009, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Salty

I was pretty bored.

Was it the tits?

RAILhead · May 5, 2009, 08:24 AM

ZING!11!!!

I thought it was just full of great acting, and colors were beautiful.

besson3c · May 5, 2009, 08:41 AM

RAILhead: I think you are beautiful.