[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
Two orders of business.

originally posted by "NewsFactor Response"
Think again.

Prove it. I have sent you an email and I have not received a reply.

originally posted by PookJP:
The MacNN boycott begins Monday, May 21

Don't you think that's a bit of an overrection? It seems to me like you people are looking for a reason go get really pissed off and martyr yourselves. Coming from a guy who has a real reason to be pissed off, I think you all need to loosen your sphincters a bit.

Please check your in-box again. I did respond, Chris.

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Fyre4ce]

I have just received a reply. I am convinced whoever "NewsFactor Response" is, s/he is somehow affiliated with NewsFactor.

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
I have just received a reply. I am convinced whoever "NewsFactor Response" is, s/he is somehow affiliated with NewsFactor.

In all fairness, "somehow" is a little weak, considering I was able to set up an in-box just for this forum, in a matter of minutes.

This is the real thing.


------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Fyre4ce]

Perhaps you are right. I am always skeptical when I read something over the internet. The "Chris" touch was a nice one!

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[Norm1985]

Damn you! My number is 847-498-6987! My e-mail is [email protected]! Call me and give me the damn e-mail!

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[Fyre4ce]

Jeez, Norm, calm down! This guy can't exactly call everyone on MacNN long-distance. Did you send him an email?

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
Perhaps you are right. I am always skeptical when I read something over the internet. The "Chris" touch was a nice one!

:-)

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Bluebomber21XX]

Yeah, he's the real deal. Although his manner of speaking is a little...less than professional, the e-mail verifies it.

------------------
For great justice!
http://bluebomber.darkmazda.com/

[Norm1985]

I'm willing to call him if he gives me his damn number! and he never gave me that e-mail! He can e-mail me his number!

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[Fyre4ce]

he posted the email on Page #1. it is: [email protected]

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Bluebomber21XX:
Yeah, he's the real deal. Although his manner of speaking is a little...less than professional, the e-mail verifies it.

Hopefully this will wrap up the part about confirming.

I'm writing like I speak. NFN is not some faceless corporation. It's made up of regular people like me who have a love of news and technology.

I can honestly say that working for NewsFactor has been great for me, and I can also say that they are good people and will do the right thing by MacNN.

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Norm1985]

I did, and I still want to talk to him on the phone. I, representing the part of the Mac community angered by NewsFactor's design and him representing NewsFactor.

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[Demonhood]

I believe the majority of users are worried about A) design, and B) uniqueness.

A) design

While you suggest that the template you are using has been tested and molded by thousands of user comments, there is always room for improvement. You are simply now getting a large volume of input from a specific group (mac users).

My thoughts on the matter is that the design is lopsided and redundant. The page is weighted down on the right side with color and graphics. I believe one of Misha's designs at http://www.sexymisha.com/macnn/3/index-b.shtml is more balanced.
Also, the MACNN NEWS column on the far right is completely useless. See the left column of Misha's design for something useful to place there (or, as Misha had it, on the left).

B) uniqueness

No one likes a cookie cutter page. There is a reason there are billions of unique designs for web pages out there. Variety is the spice of life, after all. MacNN is different. MacNN needs to be different. Here's a breakdown of your current sites (as followed by the dropdown in the upper right of the main page):

Newsfactor.com: cookie cut design. the obvious template. one huge difference, however, is that newsfactor has large colorful graphics to go along with each news item. macnn does not. this is a major concern with balance and color usage.

ecommercetimes.com, wirelessnewsfactor.com, crmdaily.com, osopinion.com: exactly the same as the above design. I don't know about you, but when I actually have to start reading the articles of a page to find out what site I'm on, there's a problem. Sure, logos help, but you should be able to recognize a page (like the nike swoosh or a red coke can) automatically.

technewsworld.com: it kind of hurts me, but it is different than the rest. much more business-like, however.

linuxinsider.com: similar to the template, but without the graphics for each story (much like macnn is now). they try to make up the balance with shaded grey rows and large ugly 'more' buttons. i kind of like seeing when exactly each story was posted though.

--

Hope this feedback proves useful.



------------------


We have a Graphics & Illustration Forum. Share the glory.

[Fyre4ce]

I can understand why he would be reluctant to talk to you on the telephone. No offense.

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

responded to Norm.

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Fyre4ce]

over the phone?

[Norm1985]

I am fully willing to be diplomatic if he just talk to me.

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[Fyre4ce]

One more thing,

"NewsFactor Response" since you're going for the casual appearance here, why don't you tell us your name?

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[AlbertWu]

"David Geller" it said in the email

------------------

<A HREF="http://alnora.carbonized.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi" TARGET=_blank>
Alnora Design Forums</A>

[Zwilnik]

I'm a worried shareware author. Given NewsFactors complete lack of understanding of decent web design, Mac 'culture', or even basic consideration for its readers (who are a hell of a lot more important than its advertisers. It's easier to get new advertisers than new readers). I'm worried about their competence in reviewing Mac products (or rather in editing the reviews that the very competent MacNN staff write).
As such, I'll be concentrating on putting the publicity for my next game through the other Mac sites. MacNN will get info + review copies etc, but the major push will be elsewhere, were readers will be able to actually *read* the content and not be directed to buying some non Mac compatible bit of PC hardware.

Aaron Fothergill
Strange Flavour

[Norm1985]

listen carefully, Norm.

this isn't some negotiation. I'm here to explain the position of NFN, and
not to haggle with you.

I've put in the time and effort in the forum, and that's the best place to
correspond, so that everyone knows what is said.

I'm not sure why you're so incredibly angry with me, but go ahead and say it
in the forum. I promise to continue to put in the time to respond.

That's the e-mail I got from our friend. First, I'm not angry at you. I'm angry at NewsFactor. Although, you not responding to me for a while makes me angry. Secondly, this is just showing your company is not willing to cooperate. Sending a representative to tell the readers, members, and contributers that they can't do anything about it dosen't show really your company cares other than to show us you supposedly care about us. By the way, you never sent me the e-mail I requested that you have sent others. I am the one who started this specific protest, I should be alert of what you told them as well.

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[Fyre4ce]

Sorry my email did not have a name included in it.

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
I believe the majority of users are worried about A) design, and B) uniqueness.

A) design

While you suggest that the template you are using has been tested and molded by thousands of user comments, there is always room for improvement. You are simply now getting a large volume of input from a specific group (mac users).

My thoughts on the matter is that the design is lopsided and redundant. The page is weighted down on the right side with color and graphics. I believe one of Misha's designs at http://www.sexymisha.com/macnn/3/index-b.shtml is more balanced.
Also, the MACNN NEWS column on the far right is completely useless. See the left column of Misha's design for something useful to place there (or, as Misha had it, on the left).

B) uniqueness

No one likes a cookie cutter page. There is a reason there are billions of unique designs for web pages out there. Variety is the spice of life, after all. MacNN is different. MacNN needs to be different. Here's a breakdown of your current sites (as followed by the dropdown in the upper right of the main page):

Newsfactor.com: cookie cut design. the obvious template. one huge difference, however, is that newsfactor has large colorful graphics to go along with each news item. macnn does not. this is a major concern with balance and color usage.

ecommercetimes.com, wirelessnewsfactor.com, crmdaily.com, osopinion.com: exactly the same as the above design. I don't know about you, but when I actually have to start reading the articles of a page to find out what site I'm on, there's a problem. Sure, logos help, but you should be able to recognize a page (like the nike swoosh or a red coke can) automatically.

technewsworld.com: it kind of hurts me, but it is different than the rest. much more business-like, however.

linuxinsider.com: similar to the template, but without the graphics for each story (much like macnn is now). they try to make up the balance with shaded grey rows and large ugly 'more' buttons. i kind of like seeing when exactly each story was posted though.

--

Hope this feedback proves useful.

Hello,

I was wondering when a mod would show up. :-)

Let me respond to your points:

1. The lopsidedness of the design appears very different in various browsers and in various resolutions. In general, the higher-res graphics cards and monitors show best, although it was certainly tested extensively in 800x600 as well with generally good results. Aesthetically, it's a whole other issue. FWIW, I agree with you about the issue of symmetry.

2. yes, here too I have to agree. I believe that there will be large (mac-generated) graphics in the near future when we start producing MacCentral-style longer news items. As there are many graphic designers here, we might even solicit them to provide some eye-catching graphics that can be unique to MacNN. I will recommend this to Editorial.

Again, I don't mean to dismiss your concerns which were well-put. But I think the solution is to try to adapt in a way that is unique to MacNN, whihc is exactly why we kept Misha's excellent header design.


------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.



[This message has been edited by NewsFactor Response (edited 05-20-2001).]

[^3]

I don't read that stuff anyway. Just the forums for me!

------------------
^3

[lholland]

OK, some Qs for ya, if you can - though they are direct.

How many of the old staff will be on board? How about Monish?
Will AppleInsider and other inside info and rumors continue?

[RDJL27]

"The workers have nothing to loose but their chains."-Karl Marx
The same goes for the consumers.... Give the people what they want. The users, or the visitors of this site want, and they should get, or at least Newsfactor should consider changes per our request. I'm perfectly aware of the problems, economical concerns, and internal company issues that are associated running a website, but that doesn't mean there can't be a simple consideration of changes to the design, to make this site more friendly to the users it is geared to, the Mac users. As for the signature made by Norm/Albert, I don't think I'll use due to the small number of posts I make here. I'll support whatver all the users here want.... So should Newsfactor.

[This message has been edited by RDJL27 (edited 05-20-2001).]

[^3]

My above post was in response to this:

Originally posted by Zwilnik:
I'm a worried shareware author. Given NewsFactors complete lack of understanding of decent web design, Mac 'culture', or even basic consideration for its readers (who are a hell of a lot more important than its advertisers. It's easier to get new advertisers than new readers). I'm worried about their competence in reviewing Mac products (or rather in editing the reviews that the very competent MacNN staff write).
As such, I'll be concentrating on putting the publicity for my next game through the other Mac sites. MacNN will get info + review copies etc, but the major push will be elsewhere, were readers will be able to actually *read* the content and not be directed to buying some non Mac compatible bit of PC hardware.

Aaron Fothergill
Strange Flavour

How it got pushed down 4 posts in 30 seconds is beyond me

------------------
^3

Edit: I can't spell.

[This message has been edited by ^3 (edited 05-20-2001).]

[AlbertWu]

This seems to be the current "Hot Topic..."

------------------

<A HREF="http://alnora.carbonized.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi" TARGET=_blank>
Alnora Design Forums</A>

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by lholland:
OK, some Qs for ya, if you can - though they are direct.

How many of the old staff will be on board? How about Monish?
Will AppleInsider and other inside info and rumors continue?

Last I heard on Friday there were 3 individuals (other than forum mods) involved.

You asked about Monish. He is an owner of MacNN and will have a strong say in the future of the site, proportionate to his ownership stake.

Then there is Trevor who updates the front page news. he was already assigned to a manager and even got somewhat of a raise.

Misha has been asked to provide a job description and has done so. I think that HR will decide at the end of this coming week.

All forum mods will stay on (unless the poster known as "pook" turns out to be a mod) and new ones can apply also.

The gereal thinking at NFN is reward for good work, while setting a realistic budget that will allow MacNN to be profitable in the short-to-mid range.

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[mindwaves]

The MacNN main page is a complete mess. If you care anything about your business and respect to the Mac community who reads MacNN content on a daily basis then you would redesign the main page from the grpund up focusing on such elements that Mac users like; after all this is a "Mac site." Please do not just slap on a MacNN logo on top of a NewsFactor template and call it a "revolutionary design." By Mac standards, this has to one of the worse designed professional sites out there. We, as a Mac community as a whole, only want Mac related content on this site such as Apple and others related tock ticker symbols on the main page. I would say that if you pace MSFT on that stock ticker symbol, then it show an agression and a reconcillation towards the Mac community. My suggestion is to remove it entirely unless MSFT owns part of NewsFactor which apparently could be a large factor of th UI of the main page. I hoipe that everything goes well because MacNN has just been deplored out of every thing that had been going for it.

[BuonRotto]

I'm going to jump into this foray just to say two things to either side of this predicament.

To the New Factor folks:

Welcome to the ugly side of Mac fanfare. We can be a little extreme. We don't seem to like change despite that slogan the, uh, "mothership" goes by (aka, "Think Different"). The reaction here is similar to Mac OS X, and you could probably take some do-s and don't-s from that saga. Peruse the OS X forums especially. There are many threads in a similar vein. Part of getting past this is just waiting it out. Some of it is doing things that find a happy medium. Pick your battles.

To the MacNN protesters:

Your reaction is trite and immature. Get some sense knocked into yourselves quickly. You're overreacting BIGTIME to what is simply a news site. You can overcome it, really. If you can't then you're simply too stubborn to bother with. I'm not sure what else to say either than I expect better of you guys. Even your mark of solidarity is obscene. Grow up.

[Demonhood]

Thanks for the reply.

BTW, I'm looking at the page at 1280x1024 on a 19" monitor, so I'm getting a pretty good view of "weight" issues with the design.

This may be out of your realm, but why has newsfactor decided not to use stylesheets extensively in their pages? It seems to me that a dynamic site such as MacNN could benefit from their use. Font tags make me ill .

[Fyre4ce]

So where to you stand, David, in NewsFactor?

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by RDJL27:
Give the people what they want. The users, or the visitors of this site want, and they should get, or at least Newsfactor should consider changes per our request. I'm perfectly aware of the problems, economical concerns, and internal company issues that are associated running a website, but that doesn't mean there can't be a simple consideration of changes to the design, to make this site more friendly to the users it is geared to, the Mac users...

Yes, in the final analysis, you're exactly right.

Tomorrow morning (West coast time) there will be a reduction in the size of the fonts on the front page to better accommodate Mac users. This should bring some relief to the design. I predict that other changes will also follow due to reader feedback.



------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Norm1985]

Oh, these changes better be more than just sizes in fonts and they better happen quicker than over the span of even a week. You have the resources. Make it Misha's design and just get it over with! How simple is that! That would satisfy both parties!

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[Norm1985]

Oh, and you still haven't given me that e-mail you gave others.

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by mindwaves:
...I would say that if you pace MSFT on that stock ticker symbol, then it show an agression and a reconcillation towards the Mac community. My suggestion is to remove it entirely unless MSFT owns part of NewsFactor

No, MSFT definitely does not own a share of NewsFactor. In fact, their PR people are generally appalled by our VERY negative opinion pieces and constant coverage of their legal woes.

The reason the ticker was placed on MacNN is to provide AAPL with a comparison to the other largest OS producer, as well as comparing both the the larger Nasdaq.

However, AAPL should sit on top, no doubt this was a prgramming error that will also be corrected Monday due to reader feedback.



------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[AlbertWu]

you're in republican/democrat mode here

both SIDES

Maybe I should change my sig... (AGAIN!)

------------------

This IS, WAS, and will CONTINUE TO BE a JOKE! QUIT BLOWING IT OUT OF PROPORTION! (Those for and against it...)

<A HREF="http://alnora.carbonized.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi" TARGET=_blank>
Alnora Design Forums</A>

[Fyre4ce]

originally posted by BuonRotto:
To the New Factor folks:

Welcome to the ugly side of Mac fanfare. We can be a little extreme. We don't seem to like change despite that slogan the, uh, "mothership" goes by (aka, "Think Different"). The reaction here is similar to Mac OS X, and you could probably take some do-s and don't-s from that saga. Peruse the OS X forums especially. There are many threads in a similar vein. Part of getting past this is just waiting it out. Some of it is doing things that find a happy medium. Pick your battles.

To the MacNN protesters:

Your reaction is trite and immature. Get some sense knocked into yourselves quickly. You're overreacting BIGTIME to what is simply a news site. You can overcome it, really. If you can't then you're simply too stubborn to bother with. I'm not sure what else to say either than I expect better of you guys. Even your mark of solidarity is obscene. Grow up.

Hey, I'm not the only one! I feel a little better now...

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by AlbertWu:
you're in republican/democrat mode here

both SIDES

Maybe I should change my sig... (AGAIN!)

cool. gimme another graphic sig change. :-) I'll do a change in mine if you do another joke graphic, but make it as good as this one.



------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Norm1985]

Why won't you respond to me?

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
I'm going to jump into this foray just to say two things to either side of this predicament.

To the New Factor folks:

Welcome to the ugly side of Mac fanfare. We can be a little extreme. We don't seem to like change despite that slogan the, uh, "mothership" goes by (aka, "Think Different"). The reaction here is similar to Mac OS X, and you could probably take some do-s and don't-s from that saga. Peruse the OS X forums especially. There are many threads in a similar vein. Part of getting past this is just waiting it out. Some of it is doing things that find a happy medium. Pick your battles.

To the MacNN protesters:

Your reaction is trite and immature. Get some sense knocked into yourselves quickly. You're overreacting BIGTIME to what is simply a news site. You can overcome it, really. If you can't then you're simply too stubborn to bother with. I'm not sure what else to say either than I expect better of you guys. Even your mark of solidarity is obscene. Grow up.

I have to admit, I've been fascinated by the OS X debate going on here. Could spell big opportunity for XP (although I hope not)



------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[lholland]

NF Response: returning to my second question what about AppleInsider and other rumors?

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Norm1985:
Why won't you respond to me?

Sorry, I'm trying to catch up. Your mindspring e-mail bounced.

What is your specific question, though, other than we should implement Misha's design suggestion?

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by Fyre4ce:
So where to you stand, David, in NewsFactor?

Well, my profile here on MacNN reads "Low man on the totem pole" :-)

I'm not exactly that, but I'm not at the absolute top either. I mainly do strategy and biz dev, including the MacNN deal, which is why I'm accountable.



------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Fyre4ce]

It seems to me that David is being assaulted with more questions than he can possibly answer. So, why don't you open a new forum specifically for discussion of NewsFactor and MacNN? This thread is the most active I've ever seem (with the possible exception of "Cipher and Reader have no life!").

------------------
Fyre4ce

"I need a vacation." - Terminator robot

[NewsFactor Response]

Originally posted by lholland:
NF Response: returning to my second question what about AppleInsider and other rumors?

I'm honestly not sure, although I think I can say that we will not step into another design quagmire without fixing this one first. In principle, we can keep rumors, just like Cnet has the "rumor mill". They just need to be labled as such.

------------------

A computer without Windows is like a fish without a bicycle.

[Jsnuff1]

i only have one question, why, oh why did macnn join newsfactor??? i though macnn was doing well enough by itself, in my opnion this is a very bad mistake by macnn (unless they were forced to join)
By doing this they put down eveything the mac communty stands for, we are unique, and we are fine alone, and dont need help, specially from wintel folks, by joining newsfactor were giving this all up and pretty much becoming drones of the wintel world.....Im very VERY disaponted

[macvillage.net]

Really not liking the new site. News updates haven't been the same for days now. I liked things the way they were. This stinks.

------------------
Robert Accettura
Owner/Webmaster of

[AlbertWu]

My new sig is a bit more toned down, but I still think the design sucks.

------------------

The old image that stated "****Factor" or "ScrewFactor" was a joke, but I am still protesting for a change in the horrid site design.

<A HREF="http://alnora.carbonized.org/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi" TARGET=_blank>
Alnora Design Forums</A>


Maybe we should let Alnora do it!