[kremmit]

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...4/IP_1394.mspx

Let's petition them not to do this! I use this feature to connect local computers together for a fast and short term solution.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

heck I thought you could only do this on Macs and I didn't even know anyone who has ever tried it.

[osxpinot]

I've used this because it's a good way to get files from Mac to PC. If I use target disk mode, I have to have some type of HFS reader.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
heck I thought you could only do this on Macs and I didn't even know anyone who has ever tried it.

I use it all the time!

It's the fastest way to connect to a Mac with only 10/100baseT Ethernet.

[Amorya]

I use it on Macs all the time. Have used it on Windows a few times, but so few PCs have Firewire that I don't use it a great deal.

Amorya

[mdc]

i use this all the time. especially when someone has regular airport, we need to transfer a lot of stuff, and i don't have an ethernet cable on me.

it is really fast.

[voodoo]

IP over Firewire?? How do you do that on the Mac?

[driven]

How DO you connect a Windows machine with a Mac using Firewire?

[The Godfather]

Of course, the most logical thing for MS is to push for IP over USB2 instead.

[Albert Pujols]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
heck I thought you could only do this on Macs and I didn't even know anyone who has ever tried it.

I've tried it, but I can't get it to work.

Help? What do I need..just a firewire cable?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by osxpinot:
I've used this because it's a good way to get files from Mac to PC. If I use target disk mode, I have to have some type of HFS reader.

I've used IP over Firewire between Macs and PCs alot as well, but I never considered target disk mode. Best HFS reader for PCs: www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive6

Would this also work for macs in SCSI disk mode?

[Eriamjh]

Microsoft has not identified any customer dependency on this capability.

Apparently, NO ONE in the PC world is using it. Interesting. Perhaps it is because most PCs don't come with FW?

[wataru]

Originally posted by voodoo:
IP over Firewire?? How do you do that on the Mac?

Go to Add a new network device in the Network prefpane. One of the options should be "Internal Firewire." Make sure both computers have it enabled, and then plug them into each other. You may have to drag Firewire to the top of the device list, or disable other network connections if the two don't see each other.

[macaddict0001]

You also need panther for ip over firewire.

[wataru]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
You also need panther for ip over firewire.

I think there was a beta release for 10.2, but you should probably avoid that.

[york28]

I dunno, I've tried this probably five times between my iBook and G5, and each time the G5 kernel paniced about halfway through copying a big file. I don;t think it's all that reliable, which is why it's somewhat hard to find in the Network Panel.

Plain ol' 100Mb is fast enough for me if I don;t have to restart.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by york28:
I dunno, I've tried this probably five times between my iBook and G5, and each time the G5 kernel paniced about halfway through copying a big file. I don;t think it's all that reliable, which is why it's somewhat hard to find in the Network Panel.

Plain ol' 100Mb is fast enough for me if I don;t have to restart.

Actually, it's been 100% reliable for me, and it is treated equally in the Network Panel with Ethernet, Airport, the Bluetooth modem, and the internal modem

[voodoo]

Originally posted by wataru:
Go to Add a new network device in the Network prefpane. One of the options should be "Internal Firewire." Make sure both computers have it enabled, and then plug them into each other. You may have to drag Firewire to the top of the device list, or disable other network connections if the two don't see each other.

Thanks Wataru! I'll try that

[Peter]

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Perhaps it is because most PCs don't come with FW?

ding

[demograph68]

Originally posted by Peter:
ding

dong?

[nooon]

If MS want to make their operating system more crappy, so be it.
I'm not petitioning against that. I really couldn't care less.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by demograph68:
dong?

peter.

[MacGorilla]

The current issue of MacAddict has a nice how to for FireWire over IP.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by kremmit:
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system...4/IP_1394.mspx

Let's petition them not to do this! I use this feature to connect local computers together for a fast and short term solution.

If I were in MS's shoes. I'd do the same thing. Maybe about 10 people in the world use it.

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
heck I thought you could only do this on Macs and I didn't even know anyone who has ever tried it.

Works fine. Hell, it was available before Macs could do it, and it worked better than the initial Mac implementation. The Jagwire IP over Firewire tended to fry the ports.

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I use it all the time!

It's the fastest way to connect to a Mac with only 10/100baseT Ethernet.

It is? I found IP over Firewire on Windows to be about the same speed as 100 Mbps Ethernet when connecting to my PowerBook.

I used Firewire target mode with MacDrive. That is by far the fastest.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
It is? I found IP over Firewire on Windows to be about the same speed as 100 Mbps Ethernet when connecting to my PowerBook.

I used Firewire target mode with MacDrive. That is by far the fastest.

No, it really is quite fast.

at any rate, faster than having to reboot into target disk mode and then again into normal mode.

[Peter]

Originally posted by demograph68:
dong?

[BasketofPuppies]

It's not only the lack of computers with FireWire ports. FireWire cables are too expensive to be feasible for networking purposes.

(I disabled the FireWire "network" on my XP box shortly after I turned it on.)

[driven]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
It's not only the lack of computers with FireWire ports. FireWire cables are too expensive to be feasible for networking purposes.

(I disabled the FireWire "network" on my XP box shortly after I turned it on.)

What was the advantage of doing so?

[BasketofPuppies]

Security. A hacker can't break into my computer over the Internet via my FireWire ports if FireWire networking is disabled.

And stability and speed. Nothing can go wrong when it's disabled, right?

But probably nothing, especially since I don't have any FireWire devices connected to my VAIO's FireWire ports.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
Security. A hacker can't break into my computer over the Internet via my FireWire ports if FireWire networking is disabled.

And stability and speed. Nothing can go wrong when it's disabled, right?

But probably nothing, especially since I don't have any FireWire devices connected to my VAIO's FireWire ports.

that'll learn'em nasty hackers tryin' to break into your computer via hardware you don't have!

[OpenStep]

Figures they have to remove something useful. Windows XP has built in support for any standard FireWire controllers even after a clean format with nothing else installed. Whenever my buddy has to reinstall Windows I always grab my PowerBook and hook it up with a FW cable with internet sharing turned on to get his system on the internet to download all the necessary drivers. I know I could download the stuff to CD but the FireWire trick is so handy if you havn't tried it you don't know why it's so good.

[olePigeon]

FireWire > USB in terms of portable storage. Bus powered portable HDs are ownage, no stupid AC adapters; and a 7200RPM FireWire 800 drive is the shiznite!

A shame most PCs don't come with FireWire. Perhaps if Windows had something that even approaches iMovie, iDVD, FCE, and FCP. I guess they use Avid.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by OpenStep:
Figures they have to remove something useful. Windows XP has built in support for any standard FireWire controllers even after a clean format with nothing else installed. Whenever my buddy has to reinstall Windows I always grab my PowerBook and hook it up with a FW cable with internet sharing turned on to get his system on the internet to download all the necessary drivers. I know I could download the stuff to CD but the FireWire trick is so handy if you havn't tried it you don't know why it's so good.

Sounds unnecessarily round-about. XP usually has pretty good ethernet driver support. Why not just set the PC up directly to get on the net?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
A hacker can't break into my computer over the Internet via my FireWire ports

Um, this statement alone was all you needed!

[wataru]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
a 7200RPM FireWire 800 drive is the shiznite!

Does a 7200RPM drive saturate FireWire 400? I thought it didn't. In which case there's absolutely no reason to use FireWire 800.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by wataru:
Does a 7200RPM drive saturate FireWire 400? I thought it didn't. In which case there's absolutely no reason to use FireWire 800.

It does if its' a 4-drive Serial ATA RAID.

[Kenneth]

yay.. that's sucks... cutting feature(s) again on the next version of Windows.

I use IP over Firewire alot between Macs. I like it better than AirPort/Ethernet...coz it's much easier and reliable (in my case).

USB 2.0 is still more popular in the PC world. Meanwhile, I hate PC markers (esp. SONY) provide 4-pin FW ports rather than a 6-pin port. BTW, I don't see any FW800 brand-named PCs around.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by wataru:
Does a 7200RPM drive saturate FireWire 400? I thought it didn't. In which case there's absolutely no reason to use FireWire 800.

Maybe *theoretically* doing things like capturing video or editing multiple streams of video doesn�t saturate a firewire 400 interface, but in *real world use* you can easily get dropped frames, and sluggish video performance.

FW 800 on the other hand is far more reliable for heavy video/audio workloads. Personally, I wouldn�t be without it- it�s enabled me to make large projects externally mobile between home and offices with no noticeable performance hit. No way FW 400 could cut it for the same use.

[bradoesch]

They can't discontinue it yet, I still haven't got my Mac talking to my PC.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
It is? I found IP over Firewire on Windows to be about the same speed as 100 Mbps Ethernet when connecting to my PowerBook.

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
No, it really is quite fast.

How fast? I measured it at around 70 Mbps (which is less than 10 MB/s), but that was only using 10.2 hooked up to the Windows PC. Maybe it's faster when hooked up to a Pantherized Mac.

Originally posted by wataru:
Does a 7200RPM drive saturate FireWire 400?

Originally posted by olePigeon:
It does if its' a 4-drive Serial ATA RAID.

It also does if it's a single 7200 rpm drive.

Real-life maximum transfer rates of the fastest Firewire chipsets are around 35-40 MB/s. There are many drives that hit well over 60 MB/s maximum in sequential transfers, with minimum sequential transfer rates just under 40.

[Luca Rescigno]

The question that no one has really asked yet is how does removing support benefit anyone? Maybe not many people use it, but it sounds like there are a few people who do. I remember a friend of mine transferring files between his desktop and laptop over Firewire, and that was about two years ago (before Macs had the capability). Sure, not many people use it, but does it really hurt anything to just leave it in?

[kremmit]

I use it for this:

I got sick of Virtual PC sucking so bad, but loved the idea of having a PC window on my mac. What I did is this:

Buy a cheap, small pc for about $300 (will get you 2 ghz or so now days). I then put in a silent power supply. Load WinXP pro onto it (must have terminal services). Set up IP over Firewire. Turn off graphics effects to make performance of WinXP better.

Then, turn on remote sharing in XP.

Then I threw the PC behind my desk where is is on all the time and silent (minus the HD). The PC then connects to my mac with a firewire cable. On the mac side, I use this:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherpr...edesktopclient

Which is just like Virtual PC in the sense that you have PC window of the desktop on your mac. Copy and paste works between the 2. You can also print from PC apps to your mac printer and share your Mac drives to your PC, all using MS's Remote Desktop Client.

Since it is over Firewire, it is very fast, and it's like you have a PC right in front of you. Plus, there is no emulation, so it's very fast.

This is the best solution I have found. I hope MS doesn't remove IP over Firewire, much less the Mac version of their Remote Desktop Client (they haven't said they would for RDC)

Oh, I forgot to mention: the only cables going into my PC are power and firewire. It's very nice. No ethernet either! I use OS X's internet sharing to serve the net to my PC over the firewire cable. What this means is that you can use OS X tools to sniff the traffic of PC apps (I use my PC primarily to run apps that I need to sniff so that I can reverse engineer them, and make them work on Macs)

[euchomai]

Originally posted by kremmit:
I use it for this:

I got sick of Virtual PC sucking so bad, but loved the idea of having a PC window on my mac. What I did is this:

Buy a cheap, small pc for about $300 (will get you 2 ghz or so now days). I then put in a silent power supply. Load WinXP pro onto it (must have terminal services). Set up IP over Firewire. Turn off graphics effects to make performance of WinXP better.

Then, turn on remote sharing in XP.

Then I threw the PC behind my desk where is is on all the time and silent (minus the HD). The PC then connects to my mac with a firewire cable. On the mac side, I use this:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherpr...edesktopclient

Which is just like Virtual PC in the sense that you have PC window of the desktop on your mac. Copy and paste works between the 2. You can also print from PC apps to your mac printer and share your Mac drives to your PC, all using MS's Remote Desktop Client.

Since it is over Firewire, it is very fast, and it's like you have a PC right in front of you. Plus, there is no emulation, so it's very fast.

This is the best solution I have found. I hope MS doesn't remove IP over Firewire, much less the Mac version of their Remote Desktop Client (they haven't said they would for RDC)

Oh, I forgot to mention: the only cables going into my PC are power and firewire. It's very nice. No ethernet either! I use OS X's internet sharing to serve the net to my PC over the firewire cable. What this means is that you can use OS X tools to sniff the traffic of PC apps (I use my PC primarily to run apps that I need to sniff so that I can reverse engineer them, and make them work on Macs)

You are smarter than me...

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally posted by kremmit:
[B]I use it for this:

I got sick of Virtual PC sucking so bad, but loved the idea of having a PC window on my mac. What I did is this:

Buy a cheap, small pc for about $300 (will get you 2 ghz or so now days). I then put in a silent power supply. Load WinXP pro onto it (must have terminal services). Set up IP over Firewire. Turn off graphics effects to make performance of WinXP better.

Then, turn on remote sharing in XP.

Remote desktop indeed rocks. I have three PCs hidden throughout my house remote-controlled via RDT. A print and file server, another large file server hidden in the hall closet, and a DVD-copy and storage server/entertainment recorder in the den. All wired directly via Ethernet, which is plenty fast for RDT operation.

I don�t leave any of them running all the time though for energy reasons- I turn them off using a task-tray tool, and use a hardwired Wake on LAN to turn them back on.

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by wataru:
I think there was a beta release for 10.2, but you should probably avoid that.

The preview release is still available, see http://developer.apple.com/devicedri..._firewire.html.