[MikeD]

Everytime I read about people backing up their data, it's going to an external drive of some sort (MyBook, or HD plus enclosure etc)... For those who have just the powermacs, (or MacPros), can't you just put in a 750gb internal HD in one of the bays if available and use that as your backupdrive? Or is this not recommended?

Mike

[Veltliner]

I don't see why not. You have so many slots on your MacPro, it would be a waste to put an extra box on top.

External hard drives are for those with MacBook pros, iMacs, and with needs of transportability. Sometimes you have to transport a greater amount of data to a client, and you can take an external hard drive. You can even put a copy of your software on there, and then present everything on another computer which might not have this particular software.

[angelmb]

What Veltiner said… I do it (a backup to the 2nd and 3rd internal HDs) now and then with SuperDuper. Fantastic app BTW.

I guess the advice about external is if e.g. your Mac dies or something like that, so you could attach the external HD to another Mac, like the MacBook in your signature.

[Sherman Homan]

My back up is an internal drive. No external box, no cables, nice and neat. The only problem would be if I wanted off site storage. External drives do have that advantage.

[PowerPC4Ever]

Of course it doesn't have to be an external drive. You just hear a lot more about external solutions because fewer people have towers in Mac land.

[slpdLoad]

It's definitely more convenient, but slightly less secure. If your regular drive dies on its own accord, then you're fine with an internal backup, since the dying of the main drive did not affect the backup.

I generally consider external a more secure solution because the entire enclosure is separate from the computer. If, for instance, an electricity surge fried your computer (I know that's not likely to happen, but backups exist because unlikely things can happen) the backup drive would be toasted along with your main drives, and you'd be out of luck.

For all practical purposes though, it's more important to simply have any kind of backup and keep up with your backup routine than it is to have that drive be external/offsite.

[OreoCookie]

Backup drives may be internal, sure. Make sure to have a multi-pronged backup strategy. Don't just clone your drive, clones are not backups! Use incremental backups instead, Synk or SuperDuper can do that for you.

However, external drives are more secure as they are electrically separate.

[slpdLoad]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Don't just clone your drive, clones are not backups!

Sure they are. They're just not updated as often as an effective backup should be. Having an incremental backup is important (I use Synk), but having only an incremental backup is just as bad as only cloning. Using something like CarbonCopyCloner to have a bootable backup drive is extremely important in restoring your system should you experience some sort of failure.

[OreoCookie]

No, it isn't.

Some simple points why cloning is a bad backup strategy:
(i) With incremental backups, you have several versions. When you delete a file accidentally (or it is corrupted) -- and this is the most-likely source of data loss, human error (!) -- a clone will only represent the state of the drive at the point of cloning.
(ii) Cloning takes a lot of space. Since cloning is -- by definition -- one-to-one, you need twice as much space for two backups. With incremental or differential backups, the amount is much, much smaller.
(iii) People feel safer about cloning, because (a) everything is there and (b) the copy is bootable. Point (a) usually means people don't know that incremental/differential backups also catch `everything' if they choose to back up the whole drive. You can also create bootable incremental backups with Synk for instance, if you so desire (although in many cases this is unnecessary).

One thing you cannot really do with clones:
(i) Do a full backup once a month. Keep two concurrent bootable backups (including increments).
(ii) Do a daily incremental backup.

This way, you can restore at least two month's worth of files (Need a version from 45 days ago? No problem!). If you do a full backup once every two months, you have four months worth of incremental backups.

What is the possible disadvantage of incremental backups (nobody says that after one full backup, you only do incremental updates)? If you take a look at professional backup solutions, all of them are based on incremental/differential backups along the lines I have outlined above.

[ghporter]

One thing to consider when backing up a drive is that if you do it with an internal drive and something PHYSICAL happens to the computer, your backup is worthless. Fire, flood, whatever-a backup that resides on the same machine as what you're backing up is only slightly better than no backup at all.

Yes, I'm thinking paranoid here. I got paid quite nicely for quite some time to do that. But MY backups are on TWO separate devices that can be grabbed and run away with in case of fire or flood. Both of which are possibilities in most places people have computers.

[OreoCookie]

Good point.
Personally, I do regular backups to my external harddrive and less regular backups (once a month or so) of important files on DVD. There is no point treating all data the same with backups. I only backup my documents and e-mails onto DVD. Aperture takes care of my pictures. My music needs less frequent backups still.

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by PowerPC4Ever 

Of course it doesn't have to be an external drive. You just hear a lot more about external solutions because fewer people have towers in Mac land.

Also many people don't know how to install an additional hard drive and I don't believe many people opted to pay for a second or third internal drive when buying their Macs. Most people I know who have towers only have one hard drive. This all means that an external hard drive is more common as a backup source by default but an internal can be used as a backup source.

I personally like using external sources for the reasons already mentioned by others. If something physically happened to my computer then all is lost. My files are important to me so I use both an external hard drive and DVD backups.

[besson3c]

I've heard nobody mention network backups yet, so I thought I'd bring them up.

Network backups are very slick. Many of the same advantages of internal drive backups, as well as electrically separate.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by slpdLoad 

Sure they are. They're just not updated as often as an effective backup should be. Having an incremental backup is important (I use Synk), but having only an incremental backup is just as bad as only cloning. Using something like CarbonCopyCloner to have a bootable backup drive is extremely important in restoring your system should you experience some sort of failure.

I am about to buy SuperDuper.

What is CarbonCopy, and in which way is it different from SuperDuper?

Which one is better?

[Veltliner]

Could somebody please post a link to a good article about the different kinds of back-ups?

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by EndlessMac 

I personally like using external sources for the reasons already mentioned by others. If something physically happened to my computer then all is lost. My files are important to me so I use both an external hard drive and DVD backups.

I guess particularly important data can use two back-ups. After all, hard drive space is pretty cheap now.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I've heard nobody mention network backups yet, so I thought I'd bring them up.

Network backups are very slick. Many of the same advantages of internal drive backups, as well as electrically separate.

One of my backup destination options is my networked drive. Network backup also gives you the opportunity to handle backups when you're not even there-which can be important since a big backup can take a while over ethernet.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I am about to buy SuperDuper.

What is CarbonCopy, and in which way is it different from SuperDuper?

Which one is better?

this review is from 2006 but worth a read nevertheless…

plasticsfuture � Mac Backup Software Harmful

 

SuperDuper is the best back-up utility out there

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

One of my backup destination options is my networked drive. Network backup also gives you the opportunity to handle backups when you're not even there-which can be important since a big backup can take a while over ethernet.

But those big files only need to be transferred when something in that big file has changed. Most of my work, and I would imagine that the bulk of most people's work consists of small files - documents, PDFs, downloaded materials, spreadsheets, etc.

[peeb]

As GHPorter said - the disadvantage with internal backups is that they cannot be stored off site. Fire, theft, flood etc will still nail you.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I am about to buy SuperDuper.

What is CarbonCopy, and in which way is it different from SuperDuper?

Which one is better?

You should definitely have a look at Synk before you buy: it can do all SuperDuper can do (including bootable clones) and handles incremental backup with ease.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

But those big files only need to be transferred when something in that big file has changed. Most of my work, and I would imagine that the bulk of most people's work consists of small files - documents, PDFs, downloaded materials, spreadsheets, etc.

Very true. I have found that the most common excuse for not backing up is "it takes so long and gets in my way," so I try to mention the potential for unattended backup through a network drive whenever the subject comes up. Pulling one more leg out from under the "it's too much trouble" camp might get a few to actually do a backup now and then.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

You should definitely have a look at Synk before you buy: it can do all SuperDuper can do (including bootable clones) and handles incremental backup with ease.

I'll do that.

Thanks!

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

this review is from 2006 but worth a read nevertheless…

plasticsfuture � Mac Backup Software Harmful

 

SuperDuper is the best back-up utility out there

Thanks for the link. Looks like SuperDuper is above the rest.

[besson3c]

Do any of these GUI tools work with Anacron in scheduling, automatically mount network disks or use SSH to transfer to and from the volume without mounting it?

A lot of these tools since backup drive oriented, which is why I got into using rsync for backup since I really wanted to do a network backup with my laptops in the house.

[OreoCookie]

Synk can probably do that. You can execute scripts before and after running a backup and it can do N-point backups if you buy the Pro Version.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Synk can probably do that. You can execute scripts before and after running a backup and it can do N-point backups if you buy the Pro Version.

What are n-point backups?

Will these backups also run without launching the GUI? Can you quit the GUI? If so, when they do run, is any notification provided (e.g. progress bar, error messages, etc.)?

[slpdLoad]

MacZealots > Articles > Backing Up Your Mac

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What are n-point backups?

Will these backups also run without launching the GUI? Can you quit the GUI? If so, when they do run, is any notification provided (e.g. progress bar, error messages, etc.)?

N-point backups are backups with multiple targets (e. g. external harddrive and off-site network storage). I'll answer your other questions once I purchase it (I have a German Visa card and an American IP). I haven't tried scheduling Synk (since I don't know when I'll be connected to my external harddrive).