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“I have shared my personal experience of having taken my elementary school age daughters into a women’s restroom when shortly after three transgender young adults over six feet with deep voices entered,” she writes. “My children were visibly frightened, concerned about their safety and left asking lots of questions for which I, like many parents, was ill-prepared to answer.”
Hold on, we've been told that doesn't happen, ever.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
What do you hope to prove coming up with anecdotal edge cases? Tightpants, I think you read too much weird stuff as if you are looking for weird stories to rile you up.
There is no way bathrooms are going to be comfortable for everybody at all times. There are many that find public bathrooms uncomfortable even when occupied by normal seeming people of the same sex. Do we make special bathrooms for the mentally ill? Gassy? Weird people? People with diarrhea? Pedophiles? Of course not.
I think people that are getting worried about where people pee and necromancy have entirely too much time on their hands. If you are uncomfortable just use a stall and stop worrying about these silly once-in-a-lifetime edge cases.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
What do you hope to prove coming up with anecdotal edge cases? Tightpants, I think you read too much weird stuff as if you are looking for weird stories to rile you up.
See above post. Read the article.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Hold on, we've been told that doesn't happen, ever.
Did the 3 transgender do anything inappropriate? If the women's WNBA team used the same bathroom with this woman and 3 kids, would they have been frightened?
Again, 6ft tall here. All it takes is a conversation.
Did the 3 transgender do anything inappropriate? If the women's WNBA team used the same bathroom with this woman and 3 kids, would they have been frightened?
Again, 6ft tall here. All it takes is a conversation.
The extent to which she claims they made things difficult was by virtue of their "deep voices".
I want to be sympathetic, but it's a pretty weaksauce argument.
Edit: my point mostly stand though. You expressed doubt the video wasn't staged but seem inclined to give this persons claim the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not 100% sure which video you're talking about, but the fact this woman worked for the ACLU is why people are assuming she's telling the truth.
IOW, the event doesn't fit what you'd imagine her overall agenda to be. The accusations of "staged" start flying when the event conveniently matches the agenda.
Did the 3 transgender do anything inappropriate? If the women's WNBA team used the same bathroom with this woman and 3 kids, would they have been frightened?
Again, 6ft tall here. All it takes is a conversation.
Should the general public be made to feel uncomfortable in such a situation? This isn't a public square we're talking about here, it's not covered under public rights (per the USSC), it's a place where you can expect to feel a degree security and privacy. You don't have the bone structure of a man, the voice of a man, the mannerisms of a man, nor a man's weiner (unless you robbed a cadaver like a girl I knew in college, who kept it in a jar in her closet). An adult can handle such things, but it's not something a 9 y/o girl should have to deal with when she's disrobing to change into, or out of, a bathing suit.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Edit: my point mostly stand though. You expressed doubt the video wasn't staged but seem inclined to give this persons claim the benefit of the doubt.
In this specific instance I am giving an ACLU attorney a degree of benefit, they tend to be a cut above most in terms of integrity. It's one of the few groups that I support wholeheartedly, despite them being on the opposite side of the aisle on a few issues.
Originally Posted by Chongo
BTW, she was the head of the GA ACLU.
I know. I have few beefs with the ACLU. They'll support individual rights, no matter how unpopular an opinion may be.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Should the general public be made to feel uncomfortable in such a situation? This isn't a public square we're talking about here, it's not covered under public rights (per the USSC), it's a place where you can expect to feel a degree security and privacy.
By the same token people could feel uncomfortable sharing their bathroom with blacks, gays, Mexicans and whatever other group you want to include here. It's a public rest room, and just like in a locker room in a gym or a shower in a public pool, you are giving up some degree of privacy. If you don't feel comfortable disrobing in said locker room or do your business in a public rest room, then you shouldn't go there. You can't derive rights from your own discomfort.
I think the whole “how do I explain this to a 9-year old girl” is non-sense, too, it's primarily about the discomfort of the parents (which children can pick up on).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Should the general public be made to feel uncomfortable in such a situation? This isn't a public square we're talking about here, it's not covered under public rights (per the USSC), it's a place where you can expect to feel a degree security and privacy. You don't have the bone structure of a man, the voice of a man, the mannerisms of a man, nor a man's weiner (unless you robbed a cadaver like a girl I knew in college, who kept it in a jar in her closet). An adult can handle such things, but it's not something a 9 y/o girl should have to deal with when she's disrobing to change into, or out of, a bathing suit.
By the same token people could feel uncomfortable sharing their bathroom with blacks, gays, Mexicans and whatever other group you want to include here.
When? Where? I'm not familiar with this ever being a thing in the modern era.
It's a public rest room, and just like in a locker room in a gym or a shower in a public pool, you are giving up some degree of privacy. If you don't feel comfortable disrobing in said locker room or do your business in a public rest room, then you shouldn't go there. You can't derive rights from your own discomfort.
It's foolish to potentially inconvenience/alienate 99.7% of the population just to indulge the feelings of .3%. If a man is in transition (which is what "trans" actually means), he can go to the men's room until he's had the surgery to become female. No, I don't agree with the NC law, what is on your BC isn't what matters, what "equipment" you currently have does. Again, this is a real person:
and I don't want him in a restroom with underage girls. (Despite the fact he identifies as an underage girl.) cuckoo-cuckoo
I think the whole “how do I explain this to a 9-year old girl” is non-sense, too, it's primarily about the discomfort of the parents (which children can pick up on).
No more nonsense than the previous race strawman.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
It's foolish to potentially inconvenience/alienate 99.7% of the population just to indulge the feelings of .3%. If a man is in transition (which is what "trans" actually means), he can go to the men's room until he's had the surgery to become female.
No, it's not foolish at all. Nobody is being inconvenienced by letting trans people use the bath room, it's an imagined affair.
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
and I don't want him in a restroom with underage girls. (Despite the fact he identifies as an underage girl.) cuckoo-cuckoo
That's your problem to be honest, one that you can work on.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
It's foolish to potentially inconvenience/alienate 99.7% of the population just to indulge the feelings of .3%. If a man is in transition (which is what "trans" actually means), he can go to the men's room until he's had the surgery to become female. No, I don't agree with the NC law, what is on your BC isn't what matters, what "equipment" you currently have does. Again, this is a real person:
and I don't want him in a restroom with underage girls. (Despite the fact he identifies as an underage girl.) cuckoo-cuckoo.
Actually that's NOT what "trans" means. "Transition" is just one of many words that are derivative of the Latin root ...
trans - a prefix occurring in loanwords from Latin (transcend; transfix); on this model, used with the meanings “across,” “beyond,” “through,” “changing thoroughly,” “transverse,” in combination with elements of any origin:
In any event, you deride STRAWMAN arguments while engaging in them yourself. Because you post the great fear of dudes in drag in a bathroom with little girls ... when in reality the average person wouldn't even blink an eye at a "trans-woman" because she looks like this ...
And as I said way back in the beginning of the thread ... do you REALLY want this "trans-man" in the bathroom with your wife or "underage girls" ... because of the state of his genitalia at birth or otherwise? And who exactly is going to be the "restroom police" checking to see if someone's birth certificate aligns with their present genitalia?
OAW
PS. And let's keep it all the way real here. That person in the orange shirt above is FAR more likely to be MURDERED by a "heterosexual" male who discovers she's a "trans-woman" than an underage girl is to be molested by some "trans-man" in a public restroom. When it comes to those who violate little girls the "manly men" have that on lock!
No, it's not foolish at all. Nobody is being inconvenienced by letting trans people use the bath room, it's an imagined affair.
Just the females who are uncomfortable going to the bathroom with a man, which is certain areas of the USA, is most of them.
That's your problem to be honest, one that you can work on.
No, not even.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
"Transitioning is the process of changing one's gender presentation permanently to accord with one's internal sense of one's gender."
You deride STRAWMAN arguments while engaging in them yourself. Because you post the great fear of dudes in drag in a bathroom with little girls ... when in reality the average person wouldn't even blink an eye at a "trans-woman" because she looks like this ...
And as I said way back in the beginning of the thread ... do you REALLY want this "trans-man" in the bathroom with your wife or "underage girls" ... because of the state of his genitalia at birth or otherwise? And who exactly is going to be the "restroom police" checking to see if someone's birth certificate aligns with their present genitalia?
Derple. No, they aren't trans, they've already transitioned to another sex. Trans means a person who is still their original sex but are transitioning to the other. You're simply wrong. Again.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Derple. No, they aren't trans, they've already transitioned to another sex. Trans means a person who is still their original sex but are transitioning to the other. You're simply wrong. Again.
But typically ... as our Resident Forum Internet Expert you think you know better than someone else's lived experience and self-identification. But let you tell it I'm "simply wrong again" when what I said completely aligns with how this individual uses the term "trans-woman" to describe herself. Uh huh. I rest my case. Thank you. And good night.
OAW
PS: Now I won't slam you on your broken link above. Even though you all too often post links to articles that don't actually say what you claim they do. What I will say is that this started off over the use of the term "trans". I disputed that and provided the actual definition. As is your typical M.O you then switched gears and provided a link to the definition NOT of the root "trans" but of a particular derivative "transitioning". Ok fine. But my point is that someone who identifies as a "trans-woman" or "trans-man" is someone who is "transgender". So follow the link. And you will see that the word "process" is nowhere to be found. In this context "trans" as used for self-identification means "transgender" the NOUN as opposed to "transitioning" the VERB.
Transgender people are people who experience a mismatch between their gender identity, or gender expression, and their assigned sex.[1][2][3] Transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another. Transgender is also an umbrella term: in addition to including people whose gender identity is the opposite of their assigned sex (trans men and trans women), it may include people who are not exclusively masculine or feminine (people who are genderqueer, e.g. bigender, pangender, genderfluid, or agender).[2][4][5] Other definitions of transgender also include people who belong to a third gender, or conceptualize transgender people as a third gender.[6][7] Infrequently, the term transgender is defined very broadly to include cross-dressers.
Cisgendered: the gender in your head matches the parts you were born with.
Transgendered: the gender in your head doesn't match the parts you were born with.
Derple. No, they aren't trans, they've already transitioned to another sex. Trans means a person who is still their original sex but are transitioning to the other. You're simply wrong. Again.
No, they are trans regardless of whether they have or have not transitioned. Subego's got it right.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I couldn't care less what it says, a lot of internet articles are just plain wrong. Some people even identify as cats and dogs, but we don't just simply let them shit on the sidewalk, despite the fact actual cats and dogs legally can (provided their owners clean up the mess).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Cisgendered: the gender in your head matches the parts you were born with.
Transgendered: the gender in your head doesn't match the parts you were born with.
They were incorrect. That's okay though, it happens.
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
No, they are trans regardless of whether they have or have not transitioned. Subego's got it right.
No it isn't right, trans means they're in the act of transitioning. A great many people have that wrong, even people who have transitioned (see above wikipedia article).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I couldn't care less what it says, a lot of internet articles are just plain wrong. Some people even identify as cats and dogs, but we don't just simply let them shit on the sidewalk, despite the fact actual cats and dogs legally can (provided their owners clean up the mess).
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants
They were incorrect. That's okay though, it happens.
No it isn't right, trans means they're in the act of transitioning. A great many people have that wrong, even people who have transitioned (see above wikipedia article).
And as usual when presented with facts to the contrary CTP just insists that he's right anyway. With nothing more to back it up other than because he said so.
But let's consult Merriam-Webster shall we?
Definition of cisgender
: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity corresponds with the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth
Definition of transgender
: of, relating to, or being a person (as a transsexual or transvestite) who identifies with or expresses a gender identity that differs from the one which corresponds to the person's sex at birth
But everybody is tripping except you huh? OAW, subego, OreoCookie. Even the freaking dictionary itself is apparently just wrong. Because our Resident Forum Internet Expert has spoken.
Now in the "US Primary season" thread I said this about Trump:
Originally Posted by OAW
Speaking utter BS confidently as he seems naturally inclined to do.
It's becoming pretty clear why you aren't a big fan of Trump even though you espouse a lot of the same views. You guys are far too much alike in this regard. And there can only be one!
No it isn't right, trans means they're in the act of transitioning. A great many people have that wrong, even people who have transitioned (see above wikipedia article).
No, it doesn't, not even by the sources the you put into evidence. You linked to a wikipedia page on transitioning, not on transgender. But we are talking about transgender people, and the page on transgender actually says exactly what we are claiming (it's the first sentence):
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Transgender people are people who experience a mismatch between their gender identity, or gender expression, and their assigned sex[.]
Transsexuals are a proper subset of transgender people, transsexuals want to transition to the gender with which they identify, i. e. not every transgender person wants to transition. Not all people who are transsexual actually go through with gender reassignment surgery. In some cases they transition only partially, e. g. a transwoman could get implants, take hormones but keep their penis intact. (Sometimes this is due to the prohibitive cost of the surgery.)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
And as usual when presented with facts to the contrary CTP just insists that he's right anyway.
This type of absurd rebuttal never gets old. Ignore the Wiki article and its citations too, while you're at it, it's what you do best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transi...g_(transgender)
"Transitioning is the process of changing one's gender presentation permanently to accord with one's internal sense of one's gender"
citation: Brown, M.L. & Rounsley, C.A. (1996) True Selves: Understanding Transsexualism - For Families, Friends, Coworkers, and Helping Professionals Jossey-Bass: San Francisco ISBN 0-7879-6702-5
I'll bet those authors know more than all of us, don't you? I have (and read) that book, maybe you could try that too, instead of just doing copypasta off the internets?
But everybody is tripping except you huh? OAW, subego, OreoCookie. Even the freaking dictionary itself is apparently just wrong. Because our Resident Forum Internet Expert has spoken.
Compared to you, I certainly am. If it weren't for your ideology's talking points, you'd have no opinion at all.
It's becoming pretty clear why you aren't a big fan of Trump even though you espouse a lot of the same views. You guys are far too much alike in this regard. And there can only be one!
"OMGerd, CTP is like Trump!1!!" That's a new low, even for the likes of you. Does that make you Hillary? Sure is looking that way.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
No, it doesn't, not even by the sources the you put into evidence. You linked to a wikipedia page on transitioning, not on transgender. But we are talking about transgender people, and the page on transgender actually says exactly what we are claiming (it's the first sentence):
Transsexuals are a proper subset of transgender people, transsexuals want to transition to the gender with which they identify, i. e. not every transgender person wants to transition. Not all people who are transsexual actually go through with gender reassignment surgery. In some cases they transition only partially, e. g. a transwoman could get implants, take hormones but keep their penis intact. (Sometimes this is due to the prohibitive cost of the surgery.)
"Trans" is from the word Transitioning, which is a much older, and more established, term. Using it as a reference to a permanent identity is a much newer, and less established, phenomenon. As with so many other things, the "Progressive" community is once again co-opting language, to push their agenda du jour.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I mean, we do need terms to describe what I described above.
Co-opting a term to increase familiarity, to convince others that a certain idea has been the status quo for a long time.
We DO have terms for the above; male and female. A male transitions into a female, or vice versa
Watch this. This guy is one of the most amazing transitions I've ever seen (the person on the left, not the skinny white girl), listen to his explanation starting at 5:30:
He also has some profound things to say about transitioning, and is seemingly one of the most happy.
(
Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; Jun 5, 2016 at 01:15 AM.
)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
That term for that is gender dysphoria or GID. It's a disorder that can be treated, either with patience and counseling, or with reassignment (in more extreme cases). Watch the guy's explanation starting at 5:30 in the video above, he's lived it.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
This type of absurd rebuttal never gets old. Ignore the Wiki article and its citations too, while you're at it, it's what you do best.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transi...g_(transgender)
"Transitioning is the process of changing one's gender presentation permanently to accord with one's internal sense of one's gender"
citation: Brown, M.L. & Rounsley, C.A. (1996) True Selves: Understanding Transsexualism - For Families, Friends, Coworkers, and Helping Professionals Jossey-Bass: San Francisco ISBN 0-7879-6702-5
I'll bet those authors know more than all of us, don't you? I have (and read) that book, maybe you could try that too, instead of just doing copypasta off the internets?
1. I've already told you that this link you keep posting is broken.
2. Even IF the quote is accurate it's utterly beside the point.
Take a deep breath and try to pay attention. No one is arguing with you about the definition of the word "transitioning". The issue is at hand is the definition of the word "transgender". And yet you INSIST that the dictionary definition of the latter is "wrong" because you are obsessively focused on the former. Seriously dude. You are actually sitting here trying to argue about the freaking dictionary definition of a word! And when you are called out on that nonsense you try to switch gears and claim the latter was "co-opted" from the former by some sort of "progressive agenda" supported by nothing more than your routinely uninformed opinion. And then you wonder why?
That term for that is gender dysphoria or GID. It's a disorder that can be treated, either with patience and counseling, or with reassignment (in more extreme cases). Watch the guy's explanation starting at 5:30 in the video above, he's lived it.
John Hopkin's stopped doing "reassignment surgery" several years ago. This is an excerpt from an op-ed from the director at the time. He's enemy #1 of the "trans community" Paul McHugh: Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution - WSJ
We at Johns Hopkins University—which in the 1960s was the first American medical center to venture into "sex-reassignment surgery"—launched a study in the 1970s comparing the outcomes of transgendered people who had the surgery with the outcomes of those who did not. Most of the surgically treated patients described themselves as "satisfied" by the results, but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn't have the surgery. And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a "satisfied" but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs.
It now appears that our long-ago decision was a wise one. A 2011 study at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden produced the most illuminating results yet regarding the transgendered, evidence that should give advocates pause. The long-term study—up to 30 years—followed 324 people who had sex-reassignment surgery. The study revealed that beginning about 10 years after having the surgery, the transgendered began to experience increasing mental difficulties. Most shockingly, their suicide mortality rose almost 20-fold above the comparable nontransgender population. This disturbing result has as yet no explanation but probably reflects the growing sense of isolation reported by the aging transgendered after surgery. The high suicide rate certainly challenges the surgery prescription
1. I've already told you that this link you keep posting is broken.
2. Even IF the quote is accurate it's utterly beside the point.
Take a deep breath and try to pay attention. No one is arguing with you about the definition of the word "transitioning". The issue is at hand is the definition of the word "transgender". And yet you INSIST that the dictionary definition of the latter is "wrong" because you are obsessively focused on the former. Seriously dude. You are actually sitting here trying to argue about the freaking dictionary definition of a word! And when you are called out on that nonsense you try to switch gears and claim the latter was "co-opted" from the former by some sort of "progressive agenda" supported by nothing more than your routinely uninformed opinion. And then you wonder why?
OAW
The auto-URL creator misparses the end parentheses.
That term describes both Bruce and Caitlyn Jenner, what I'm saying requires a term is the difference.
Jenner is largely about media attention. Their "transition" has put a great deal of $$ into their bank account, at a time when a divorce from Kris (and all that Kardashian $) was inevitable.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
1. I've already told you that this link you keep posting is broken.
MacNN is parsing the url wrong.
2. Even IF the quote is accurate it's utterly beside the point.
No, watch the segment of the above video I posted.
Take a deep breath and try to pay attention.
I'm sick of your condescending shit, grow up.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
Jenner is largely about media attention. Their "transition" has put a great deal of $$ into their bank account, at a time when a divorce from Kris (and all that Kardashian $) was inevitable.
I didn't mean for the term to apply solely to Jenner.
I used Jenner as an example because of familiarity.
John Hopkin's stopped doing "reassignment surgery" several years ago. This is an excerpt from an op-ed from the director at the time. He's enemy #1 of the "trans community" Paul McHugh: Transgender Surgery Isn't the Solution - WSJ
I don't agree with utterly removing it as an option, it can work for some, in extreme cases. It definitely isn't the magic bullet that the LGBTQ++RVWAUDI community is claiming, though, and definitely shouldn't be done to children.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
I don't agree with utterly removing it as an option, it can work for some, in extreme cases. It definitely isn't the magic bullet that the LGBTQ++RVWAUDI community is claiming, though, and definitely shouldn't be done to children.
Children are a toughie.
On one hand, we question children's ability to give consent all the time. If this isn't an appropriate place to do so, I don't know what is.
On the other, if it's gonna happen, the earlier the better.
I lean towards a blanket 18, but I feel it can be argued.
If a person isn't old enough to sign a contract, they aren't old enough to consent to surgery that permanently changes their body, IMO. Seriously, listen to the above "interview", it forever changed how I view trans issues. The guy really has his shit together.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
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