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Some Guy [] · Dec 18, 2003, 12:02 AM

ever since i installed 10.3.2 my powerbook's fan has been on. putting it to sleep or rebooting isn't fixing it, also tried zapping pram and resetting PMU.

my cpu usage is also at near 0% and the powerbook itself is not warm at all.

anyone else having this problem? i'm on a first gen 12" powerbook g4 (867mhz). i've never had this problem before.

-justin

uv23 · Dec 18, 2003, 12:20 AM

many reports of the same thing here: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...threadid=51769

schk · Dec 18, 2003, 12:36 AM

Fans working the same as before here.

real · Dec 18, 2003, 12:37 AM

Yep FAN still on, I guess everything can't be perfect..............

Maybe apple will fix this as well.......... next year sometime....

real

Some Guy [] · Dec 18, 2003, 12:45 AM

actually it seems like the fans just turn on a lot sooner then before... i took my powerbook outside in the snow where it's -1C and it stopped spinning finally

but if i do a few tasks it will start up again.

-justin

iDriveX · Dec 18, 2003, 12:50 AM

I documented this in a thread about 3 weeks ago and submitted the bug to Apple during the 10.3.2 Beta testing process, but to no avail. I am on a 12" Rev. A PowerBook. There is no need for the fan to be coming on this early. All I am working in is doing an Excel Spreadsheet with nothing else going on and the fan is at level 2 of 3. It's very annoying.

jbhopper · Dec 18, 2003, 02:25 AM

Try shutting down completely, not just sleeping or restarting.

iDriveX · Dec 18, 2003, 02:28 AM

Originally posted by jbhopper:
Try shutting down completely, not just sleeping or restarting.

Do you mean after the update is done? Or just in general. I am not going to shut off my laptop everytime the fan goes on, I'd get no work done!

Some Guy [] · Dec 18, 2003, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by jbhopper:
Try shutting down completely, not just sleeping or restarting.

did that that with PMU reset since you need to shutdown.

-justin

iDriveX · Dec 18, 2003, 04:32 AM

I did the shut down and left the computer off for a good 15 minutes, about restarting I zapped the PRAM about 3 times (just to make sure it took

) And after the computer was fully done loading I opened Safari only and went to a porn webpage and cmd+clicked on about 15 links. The tabs loaded and before I could even click on one of the tabs, the fan kicked on into second gear, and by the time I was done with all the pages, the fan was at full speed.

There were no other applications open besides Safari, there were no movies loading or playing on said pages, they were just pages full of graphics. The 12" PowerBook is on a Griffin iCurve and it's currently 52 degrees outside here in Southern California. The house does not have the heat on so I would say my room temperature is about 62-64 degrees.

To the touch, the left palm rest feels just as cool as the right palm rest. The underside of the PowerBook feels just as cool. The only semi-warm zone is up near where the power cord plugs in because it's charging the battery, but even that isn't warm enough to cause the fan to go on.

iDriveX · Dec 18, 2003, 04:40 AM

After that last post, I quit safari and, with no other applications open and no processes besides what normally is going on in OS X, waited for the fan to shut off. It just now shut off. Notice the post times. I think it's been about 5 minutes straight with the fan on and nothing going on in the computer.

....It just turned itself on again while I was typing this post...

mousehouse · Dec 18, 2003, 05:17 AM

my fan almost always comes on when charging, even when my tibook is not really warm. when it's charged or on batt it's ok. maybe this new fan setup is to make sure that the temp inside doesn't build up that much...

sheer · Dec 18, 2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by schk:
Fans working the same as before here.

Out of curiosity have you applied the new battery update or not..?

uv23 · Dec 18, 2003, 09:07 AM

Download temeperature monitor (the url escapes me but I'm sure it's on versiontracker or macupdate) and post back wih the temperature that you're fan is coming on at. When I am at home on my 12" Rev B with the lid closed and attached to anexternal monitor, my fan comes on around 45.5 degrees and stays on. I still haven't figured out when it comes on when the lid is open as there's always too much ambient noise at the time (different locales).

eevyl · Dec 18, 2003, 09:10 AM

I am getting my fan to turn on when the CPU temp reaches around 51 celsius degrees, a lot sooner than before, that was around 64 degrees.

It appears to shutdown at around 45-46 celsius degrees.

I suspect this is a deliberate move to avoid the whinning about the hot issues, however I find it a bit overkill because with the CPU at max speed the fan is on almost always.

Walker · Dec 18, 2003, 09:48 AM

Does this problem appear to be affecting newer or older powerbooks (or all of them)? I've got a Titanium DVI 667 and will hold off upgrading to 10.3.2 until I hear from others with the same powerbook that are unaffected by the fan problem.

lw

suthercd · Dec 18, 2003, 09:53 AM

No change in fan operation during all the 10.3.2 pre-release verions and none now with 7D24. T1 500 MHz and Ti 1 GHz. I am not finding the problem others report here.

Craig

uv23 · Dec 18, 2003, 12:36 PM

From my observations here and on other boards, the fan issue appears to be largely focused on Rev A 12" PB users. From what I've read in the past, after posting my own questions about heat, the fan in the Rev A doesn't turn on until much later than it does in Rev Bs. So I can only assume that Apple leveled the field with 10.3.2, the side-effect being that Rev As heat up much more readily than Rev Bs. For the record, with 10.3.1, my fan turns on around the mid 45 degree C mark.

ctbritt · Dec 18, 2003, 12:44 PM

my fan is running constantly too, after battery update and 10.3.2. Also, I got almost not bump on my battery, so i'm going to let it burn down and then charge it back up. *sigh*

12" Rev A PB.

Simon · Dec 18, 2003, 12:54 PM

I think this is really a rev A issue as suggested above.

I have a rev B 12" PowerBook and I haven't noticed any change after the update. The fan still comes on around 48.5C and stays on until the temp drops below about 46.0C.

My CPU throttle setting is "Automatic". The noted temperatures are reached when thrashing the disk or with sustained high CPU usage. They are reached more easily when charging the battery. The fan stops when going to sleep or upon shut down.

(all temperatures according to the free app Temperature Monitor)

sheer · Dec 18, 2003, 01:54 PM

Hmm, I've installed both the battery and X.3.2 update. First boot was slow, but I expect that after an update. Did another boot, seemed normal (X.3 has always been quick booting for me). Just verified disk persmissions, ran a bench of Xbench (100.99 which is the best I've ever seen) and secure-emptied a load of trash. Still waiting for the fan to kick in, I'm plugged in too. Rev B PB12" Combo/768 btw.

uv23 · Dec 18, 2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by sheer:
Just verified disk persmissions, ran a bench of Xbench (100.99 which is the best I've ever seen)

Wow, when I ran xbench recently with 10.3.1 I got 89 with the exact same machine config! I am curious to see whether 10.3.2 will improve it.

sheer · Dec 18, 2003, 03:09 PM

After a reboot I'm normally around 97-98 rising to ~100 as the uptime goes on (I always let it sleep rather than reboot) so it wasn't that much of an increase to me, just indicative of some small improvements. I'll run another bench in a few days and see how it fares then.

Skaar · Dec 18, 2003, 07:05 PM

I have a 15" Ti 1GHz SD, and after applying the update my fan is now always on and my battery life has dropped from getting about 4 hours to just under 2 hours!!
I guess having the fan run all the time would kill the battery.

Argghh..I wish they'd test these updates out before releasing them.

Ghoser777 · Dec 18, 2003, 07:10 PM

Hmmm... my battery only stays 98% chared for some odd reason... even though it's fully charged.

My fan is on constantly too - doning nothing right now besides posting on MacNN. It's not the high pitched fan noise, but it's clearly going.

Matt Fahrenbacher

karbon · Dec 18, 2003, 08:40 PM

I am having the same fan problem as well. Now it's on almost all the time. Very annoying. It liked it A LOT better before, a little warmer, but a lot more quiet. Hope Apple will fix this!

The Ayatollah · Dec 19, 2003, 12:36 AM

got the problem on my 12" PB. Just updated from .1 to .2, and immediately experienced this problem. Never happened before .2. Argh!

absmiths · Dec 19, 2003, 02:31 AM

Originally posted by sheer:
Out of curiosity have you applied the new battery update or not..?

Is there an update besides 10.3.2? I have a TiBook and haven't applied any battery updates.

mintcake · Dec 19, 2003, 07:27 AM

According to a poster on the macrumors forum who contacted Apple about this, it's a "feature". In other words, the fan is intended to come on at lower temperature following the update.

I haven't installed it yet on my rev B 12" AlBook, largely because of this issue. My fan is already on more often than I'd like. Talking to a friend with a Rev A 12", though, his fan rarely comes on. I'm wondering if this update isn't simply bringing the rev A more into line with temp control on the rev B?

Simon · Dec 19, 2003, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by mintcake:
In other words, the fan is intended to come on at lower temperature following the update.

I haven't installed it yet on my rev B 12" AlBook, largely because of this issue.

Apple reduced the temp at which rev A fans turn on because the rev A was a tad hot. They brought them on par with the rev B temperatures.

Therefore relax. You can go and install the update. It should have no negative effect on your rev B machine. My rev B is acting just like before the update.

mintcake · Dec 19, 2003, 09:29 AM

OK, good news. Thanks Simon. Now I just need some reassurance about the problems some people have experienced with wireless routers since the update.

RH · Dec 19, 2003, 12:01 PM

Well, so far I have had no performance problems on a rev. A 12" PowerBook. Yes, the fan has come on a little more than usual, VPC 6 is the cause of that though. I am not sure what caused this with the rash of updates out of Cupertino, but my xbench scores jumped 5 points from what they were in 10.3.1 (84.44 to 89.37, 10.3.2) . MS Word has gotten a significant speed boost, from what I have no clue. I have been using OS X since the public beta and never have noticed a performance jump like this in any previous 10.X.X release.

RH
PowerBook G4 12" 867
Blueberry iMac G4 433
5 GB iPod

andreas_g4 · Dec 19, 2003, 12:26 PM

There's a solution that was found by a member of a foreign forum:

http://www.deleet.de/ray/pbfanfix.html

hyperizer · Dec 20, 2003, 12:58 AM

No problems on my 1 Ghz TiBook. I did a full backup first just in case.

iDriveX · Dec 20, 2003, 04:30 AM

Much better...

Now if I were Apple and I were reading all the different reactions to this fan issue, I would add another option in the Energy Preference Pane. One that would regulate the fan. You could set it to come on earlier or later as it was getting hot. If it's not damaging internal components (which I doubt it is, or they wouldn't have released it like this in the first place.), then let people have the choice! But then again, I'm not Apple.

Some Guy [] · Dec 20, 2003, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by iDriveX:
Much better...

Now if I were Apple and I were reading all the different reactions to this fan issue, I would add another option in the Energy Preference Pane. One that would regulate the fan. You could set it to come on earlier or later as it was getting hot. If it's not damaging internal components (which I doubt it is, or they wouldn't have released it like this in the first place.), then let people have the choice! But then again, I'm not Apple.

did change both extentions or just the 1? i changed AppleADT746x.kext only and my fan is still acting up.

-justin

Spheric Harlot · Dec 20, 2003, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by hyperizer:
No problems on my 1 Ghz TiBook. I did a full backup first just in case.

The fan "problem" only occurs on first-generation 12" Powerbooks.

-s*

Some Guy [] · Dec 20, 2003, 10:27 AM

the updated instructions say you only need to use the old appleADT driver but it didn't help, my fan only stopped constantly spinning when i also went back to the old appleAPM driver.

-justin

MrNo · Dec 20, 2003, 11:50 AM

I like it this way. It's a bit louder, but PB runs much cooler and is more comfortable to use.

iDriveX · Dec 20, 2003, 02:00 PM

I replaced the Apple ADT kext, the AppleFan kext, the AppleK2Fan kext, and the Apple PMU kext, and the fan still seems to come on at exactly 125 degrees F and then turn off at somewhere in between 115 degrees F and 116 degrees F. I think that guy might be right when he said that Apple said it was set in the Firmware now...

QUICK develop some system firmware mod that I can blindly try on my system!

Some Guy [] · Dec 20, 2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by iDriveX:
I replaced the Apple ADT kext, the AppleFan kext, the AppleK2Fan kext, and the Apple PMU kext, and the fan still seems to come on at exactly 125 degrees F and then turn off at somewhere in between 115 degrees F and 116 degrees F. I think that guy might be right when he said that Apple said it was set in the Firmware now...

QUICK develop some system firmware mod that I can blindly try on my system!

you're only supposed to replace these 2

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADM103x.kext
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleADT746x.kext

and after you replace them, try zapping your pram. and fan control is handled by the kernel, not the firmware.

-justin