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TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 05:38 PM

Hi. Thats my basic question. But I can tell already that this is going to turn into a rant. SORRY! And its not a rant against Mac. But I'm really regretting my decision to switch to Mac. I'm a lazy developer. I like to read programming books. I don't like to hunt and peck through half-baked documents scattered about the internet.

So the question really boils down to a plea for help; Does anybody know of a C++ IDE that has reasonable documentation available for using it with gcc. Obviously it should be an IDE written this decade; syntax highlighting and code completion.

I love my Mac more than any other computer I've ever had. I'm just getting sick of this hunting for solutions thing... very tired....

Chuckit · Apr 25, 2005, 05:42 PM

If you like to read programming books, why don't you just buy a programming book?

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

If you like to read programming books, why don't you just buy a programming book?

AH HA... thank you ... thats where my problem comes in. Can you direct me to a book that tells me how to use XCode for developing C++ code? It seems geared towards Objective C and Java to me. I'm sure I could hack together a working project. But I'm the kind of guy that would like to UNDERSTAND things... I know.. bad habbit.

galarneau · Apr 25, 2005, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by TampaDeveloper

I don't like to hunt and peck through half-baked documents scattered about the internet.

<snip>

I'm just getting sick of this hunting for solutions thing... very tired....

What exactly are you having so much trouble finding? When I installed the Developer Tools, there was a folder full of documentation and another with sample code. That plus the CocoaDev mailing list archives is about all I've ever needed.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by galarneau

What exactly are you having so much trouble finding? When I installed the Developer Tools, there was a folder full of documentation and another with sample code. That plus the CocoaDev mailing list archives is about all I've ever needed.

I found the documentation included with the Developer Tools to be superficial at best. Perhaps I'm just not as good at finding the documents I require. Are you suggesting that there IS, in fact, a document included with the developer tools which outlines how to set up XCode for developing C++ applications?

Edit: Sorry, I think theres a misunderstanding. I am not searching for information on developing Cocoa applications. This I have plenty of documentation on. Thanks.

Chuckit · Apr 25, 2005, 06:10 PM

It seems to me that you use Xcode for C++ the same way you use it for Objective-C or Java. I'm not a heavy-duty C++ developer, but it's never given me any trouble with the C++ projects I have worked on, so I'm kind of confused where the "how" comes in.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It seems to me that you use Xcode for C++ the same way you use it for Objective-C or Java. I'm not a heavy-duty C++ developer, but it's never given me any trouble with the C++ projects I have worked on, so I'm kind of confused where the "how" comes in.

My problem is that I have not yet found a satisfactory explanation of what all the project types are. I also don't feel that I understand xcode very well at all. I don't understand the terminology and options. I've developed many things under windows, so thats where my experience is. I don't see any resources that really have an in depth overview of this information. I'm sure it exists.. I'm just blind.

Edit: My thoughts were that I have exhausted my search for a good introduction to XCode, and I haven't found myself particularly fond of it anyhow, so I would like to know where the promise-land is of C++ developer tools and resources for the Mac, so that I may partake of the festivities. But seriously, perhaps XCode IS that tool. BUT, I have used it for a total of about 12 hours and it has crashed 20 times in that period, using it to develop cocoa apps and also for -attempting- to develop a simple Hello World C++ app last night. If it crashes that often, either I'm doing something wrong or the tool sucks. If I can't find a decent introduction to it, then I'm forced to look elsewhere.

smeger · Apr 25, 2005, 06:32 PM

Xcode crashes maybe once every few months for me. So I think it's possible that you've got a bad installation somehow, or that something (maybe an Xcode plugin) is screwing up your install.

For documentation on Xcode: Xcode Help menu -> Xcode Help. The default item that's shown is titled "About XCode". You can also search within this window. I personally find it easier, though, to surf to developer.apple.com and search for whatever I'm looking for there.

I think Project Types are pretty self-explanatory. Want a C++ app that's based on Carbon? Application -> Carbon Application. Rather self-evident. Want to start from scratch with nothing "templated" in for you? Use an empty project.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 08:45 PM

Wow. Ask and you shall receive!... I've been using the HTML that sits in Developer Documentation, which is superficial at best. I don't have any plug-ins installed, so thats not the problem. But its reassuring to know that its likely that I have some sort of problem with my install. Looks like I've got some reading to do

Thanks!

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 09:05 PM

Ok. Now I'm back to being frustrated. I go to read the help and the darn font they use is too small.. it must be about a 6 pt font. So I search all the preferences in XCode to no avail. So then I search Safari hoping that the HTML settings would somehow affect the help. That didn't work. So then I search Mac Help for how to increase the size of the font in help windows. It says to do an Edit->Increase Font Size. That option is not available in the XCode help.

Now for the punchline. I right click and say "open in new window" and XCode crashes!!!!

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 09:15 PM

Now you want to know what this stupid thing is doing? I have a "Hello World" C++ app in my Recent Files... So I open XCode and reopen the project.... and I get an error message that says;

"Could not find file /usr/lib/gcc/darwin/3.3/libstdc++.a. Perhaps it was moved or deleted?"

So I pop open a shell and cd to /usr/lib/gcc/darwin/3.3/" and do myself an ls... and lo-and-behold libstdc++.a is in the directory. A little dumbfounded I do an ls -l to make sure its not a permissions problem... nope; user, group, and other all have read permission. SUPER!

I go back to my original assessment... XCode is a piece of crap!

Please, does anybody know of an alternative IDE? PLEASE!?!?!

Chuckit · 09:38 PM

Didn't we already establish that you have a problem with your install? How can you possibly think a problem nobody else has is proof that Xcode is a piece of crap?

Anyway, if you want another IDE, try Eclipse. It's open-source and has a pretty good reputation in general, though its focus isn't C++.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 25, 2005, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Didn't we already establish that you have a problem with your install? How can you possibly think a problem nobody else has is proof that Xcode is a piece of crap?

I've never heard of a bug that arbitrarily removes features from the application's menu...

Chuckit · Apr 25, 2005, 09:52 PM

What are you talking about? The font thing? It's in Xcode's preferences, under "Documentation."

smitty825 · Apr 26, 2005, 12:35 AM

If you're looking for an ide that isn't free, you can checkout Metrowerk's CodeWarrior. (I don't know if it is still actively developed) Also, the X11 application is installed, and using a program like Fink or Darwin Ports, you can install something like KDevelop if that is what you're looking for...

(If you're looking for a Visual Studio replacement on the Mac, you're not going to find it. IMHO, Visual Studio is the nicest development environment available, even though it sucks up about 100MB of RAM without anything open)

TampaDeveloper · Apr 26, 2005, 10:14 AM

Thanks for all the help. As you can see I get crabby when things don't work right....

KDevelop looks awesome. I surfed the fink site, though, and it says that KDevelop is not stable on OSX yet. So this may not be the ideal solution. I'm considering just selling the mac and becoming a PC weenie again... Linux weenie maybe even. But I'm lazy, which is why I bought a Mac to begin with. OSX is the lazy man's unix.

Thinine · Apr 26, 2005, 11:03 AM

For a C++ project, use the C++ Tool project template to setup a new project. Frankly, I can't see how you missed this, since it's one of the standard templates. And make sure you have the latest version of Xcode. They made a lot of stability improvements in the later versions. The latest version for Panther is 1.5.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 26, 2005, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Thinine

For a C++ project, use the C++ Tool project template to setup a new project. Frankly, I can't see how you missed this, since it's one of the standard templates. And make sure you have the latest version of Xcode. They made a lot of stability improvements in the later versions. The latest version for Panther is 1.5.

I didn't "miss" it. I just don't know what a "tool" is. Can you define that for me? I just want a standard C++ project. When it says tool, I don't know if this is linked with some special library or if it had any other special configuration features. I must just be getting too caught up in the semantics. But why add a superfluous word? It implies something in addition to just a standard C++ project. And the HTML documentation I was looking at failed to adequately define the different types. I think the standard help document defines them better, I just haven't had a chance to really sit down and read it yet. My XCode is still not working right and so I was preoccupied with that....

I'm still finding the whole XCode environment non-intuitive. For example; I like using the little preview screen on the bottom of the main window for my source code. But once I open a file down there, I cannot find a "close file" option. How the heck do I close a source file after I have opened it in the editor? I must just be losing my mind!!!!

Thinine · Apr 26, 2005, 02:39 PM

Um, why would you have to close a file in the embedded view?

C++ Tool is a standard command line tool that links against libstdc++. It says that right in the description pane when you select the template in the first place.

PBG4 User · Apr 26, 2005, 03:26 PM

You probably want to try a reinstall of XCode if you're really having so many crashes. I've only crashed XCode once so far, but I'm only a light developer.

Set yourself with an online ADC account (developer.apple.com). It's free. Once you have that, download the latest XCode image, which is version 1.5. That should help. Or you could wait until Friday and grab Tiger with XCode 2.0, which adds some new features along with all the great new APIs available in Tiger.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 26, 2005, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by PBG4 User

Or you could wait until Friday and grab Tiger with XCode 2.0, which adds some new features along with all the great new APIs available in Tiger.

Thats a thought!!! XCode 2.0 has a 2 way UML Tool...

Mafia · Apr 26, 2005, 05:21 PM

i don't understand how this can be so difficult for you. when you go to new project its right there plain and simple c++ tool. when you click on it it reads "This project builds a command-line tool that links against the stdc++ library." it couldn't be more explanatory. if your xcode crashes and has problems with compiling c++ code then its probably a bad install. reinstall and go on.

or you could do the exact same thing you would do in linux and save it as a cpp file and use terminal to gcc it.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 26, 2005, 11:17 PM

Thanks for all the help. I downloaded XCode 1.5 tonight and its much much better. I'm liking it a whole lot more.

TampaDeveloper · Apr 26, 2005, 11:20 PM

BTW, I don't think the version I was using had "Standard C++ Tool" as an option. And NO, I'm not uninstalling the update to see.

jamil5454 · Apr 26, 2005, 11:26 PM

So you weren't using XCode 1.5 to being with?

TampaDeveloper · Apr 26, 2005, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by jamil5454

So you weren't using XCode 1.5 to being with?

Ok. I'm embarrassed to say it... It was 1.1 .. For some reason I assumed that it was being updated when I did my System Updates...

jamil5454 · 11:41 PM

I am awesome.