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as2 · Sep 2, 2003, 12:29 PM

I think this guy just likes being a ****... I mean, his name is Lemond for a start!

Take a look at some of the other reviews he's done on the site... he hate's everything!

version · Sep 2, 2003, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
DON'T FORGET the Atari Jaguar was 64 bit...

LMAO, damn it, so it was. I want it!

lawgeek · Sep 2, 2003, 01:12 PM

There was a guy next door in the dorms back in college who ran a machine with an Alpha microprocessor as his desktop but it doesn't mean Alpha was a desktop microprocessor.

D'Espice · Sep 2, 2003, 02:11 PM

Two Opterons for $380? Hell yeah, sign me up! Oh and btw, that dork seems to forget that the 2 GHz Opteron is not even available yet, fastest one right now is the 1.8 GHz Opteron

version · Sep 2, 2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by lawgeek:
There was a guy next door in the dorms back in college who ran a machine with an Alpha microprocessor as his desktop but it doesn't mean Alpha was a desktop microprocessor.

true, but I remember you could buy Alpha based workstations for aroudn the same price as the G5, they were sold as 3D animation computers, pretty much what Apple are doing. I know what you mean though, but the thing I'm trying to point out is that it's a difficult thing to claim to be the first in something, when it's pretty debatable.

D'Espice · Sep 2, 2003, 02:48 PM

Oh and btw, the AMD Opteron is not a desktop processor... given that I have one I can tell you this for sure.
The processor is way too expensive, as are the mainboards. Also you need registered ECC RAM for the Opteron, the Athlon64 is not going to need registered ECC but normal RAM

version · Sep 2, 2003, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by D'Espice:
Oh and btw, the AMD Opteron is not a desktop processor... given that I have one I can tell you this for sure.
The processor is way too expensive, as are the mainboards. Also you need registered ECC RAM for the Opteron, the Athlon64 is not going to need registered ECC but normal RAM

that's just splitting hairs though, don't you think? I remember when the Xeons came out, adn how they were marketed for servers, and high end workstations; I went out and bought a couple , and stuck them in a SuperMicro dual cpu m/board. To me, all these cpus are anything you want them to be.

entiZ · Sep 2, 2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
DON'T FORGET the Atari Jaguar was 64 bit...

lololz whew thanks i needed a good laugh

Angus_D · Sep 2, 2003, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
The AMD Opteron, which is very similar to the ppc970, has been out for a few months. It does the 32bit and / or 64bit modes, etc.
I've seen them running windows and linux. Hell, they were sitting on desks!

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/...l?redir=HOM001. Note that the Opteron is a Server/Workstation chip, the Athlon and Duron are their Desktop/Mobile ranges.

mixin visuals · Sep 2, 2003, 03:16 PM

if i need a computer for gaming i will buy a ps2

BasketofPuppies · Sep 2, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
DON'T FORGET the Atari Jaguar was 64 bit...

In the same way that the Sega Saturn was 112-bit.

For all intents and purposes, the Jaguar was a 16-bit machine. Developers found it next to impossible to get it to work in 64-bit mode.

Millennium · Sep 2, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
In the same way that the Sega Saturn was 112-bit.

Hey, don't knock the Saturn, man. NiGHTS owned.

BasketofPuppies · Sep 2, 2003, 05:05 PM

Hey, Sega never claimed that the Saturn was a 112-bit system. EGM pointed out that going by Atari's standards (adding up the "bits" of all the processors), the Saturn was 48 bits better than Jaguar.

I'm pretty sure the Saturn was really about 84752358697 times better than the Jaguar.

Eug Wanker · Sep 2, 2003, 11:42 PM

BasketofPuppies · Sep 2, 2003, 11:54 PM

Ow.

amsalpemkcus · Sep 3, 2003, 12:00 AM

go figure!

DaedalusDX · Sep 3, 2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by iNub:
You guys do realize that this guy's laughing at all of you as he cashes his payout from all the ads you just downloaded, right?

Fact: This guy knows nothing. That's a given.
Fact: He knows we're going to find that article.
Fact: There are an extrauordinary number of ads on this page.

Ergo: He wrote that to generate ad revenue.

People do it to slashdot all the time. Post an article about how much Linux sucks, and lace it with ads.

Profit!

Well pop up blocking in the Mac and Linux web browsers takes care of those.

DaedalusDX · Sep 3, 2003, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Erm, Apple has never made a 64bit chip

The AMD Opteron, which is very similar to the ppc970, has been out for a few months. It does the 32bit and / or 64bit modes, etc.
I've seen them running windows and linux. Hell, they were sitting on desks!

Apple is in no way the first to offer a 64bit desktop.

Erm, eh? I don't know about malls, I avoid them whenever possible. However, you can get a 64bit PC that runs windows, all current games, and totally utilizes 64bit processing. At the same time.
You just can't get a mac that can do that. Sorry, try again.

It's all marketing speak. Get over it.

Uh... scott, the Opteron will not run at full 64 bit potential until Microsoft releases a version of Windows XP tweaked for 64 bit...

So, you have NOT seen an AMD machine that "totally utilizes 64 bit processing"

So even if you do have an Opteron on your desk, its running 100% 32 bit code. A 32 bit OS, and 32 bit apps... Currently, opteron systems can't address the larger address space that the new G5s can with 10.2.7.

Put 8 GB of RAM into a G5, and it'll do some good for you. Put 8 GB of RAM into an Opteron system before Windows XP for x86-64, and its a waste of money.

The G5 definitely has a one up on the AMD chips in that respect.... and you CAN get a mac that does all of the things you listed (including address 8 GB of memory) right now.

DaedalusDX · Sep 3, 2003, 02:08 AM

Here's a better definition of "Desktop" that I think will clearly distinguish what Apple has done here with other offerings... including AMD, and all of the other obscure 64 bit systems that just happened to sit on a desk in the past decade...

its called the Mere Mortal test.
Its rather simple. If there is a reasonable situation where an average aloof user (with enough funds of course) would walk into a computer store and purchase a system, and take it home and have it accommodate his needs, WITHOUT explicitly knowing that the machine is a 64 bit machine during the purchase... then it is considered "mainstream" enough for the Desktop classification.

It is vastly unlikely that any average user (with $2000 or more to spend), in the months that the Opteron has been out, would spring for an Opteron. Why? Because the channels in which you can purchase such a system are difficult to access for the average user. They are obscure enough because in truth, they make systems with workstation in mind, not desktop applications...

Plus, none of the major desktop computer makers have taken up the Opteron in any of their systems, nor are there any plans to sell them on the same level as the Pentium 4 or the Athlon. This further reduces the chances that this average computer shopper would find his hands on an Opteron system.

Indeed, the way that one would go about having an opteron system would be to purchase the components and build it yourself.

The G5 on the other hand... if a user (given that they are open to buying a Mac, and have the money and the willingness to part with it for a new computer) walks into an Apple store, and sees the new G5, plays with a demo... it is entirely possible that he can walk home with the G5 and have a 64 bit system without even realizing it.

Indeed, the same type of buyer may very well have walked home with a Gateway, an HP, or whatever, since the buying experience is very similar to if he had bought the G5... but the G5 would be 64 bit, and he would not have to know about it....

That's the mere mortal test. At this point in time, mere mortals wouldn't have an Opteron system.... when AMD's Athlon64 ships later this fall, you'll see computer makers like HP, Compaq, and Sony start to adopt them, and then mere mortals will have Athlon64 systems, but not the Opteron. The same holds for any obscure 64 bit computer that ran on a desk in the past running whatever obscure OS. Its all fine that they sat on desks, but its not really Desktop until it has exposure to the public.

The G5 is remarkable because it is one system that Apple is hoping to have extreme influence in multiple markets... Apple's old mainstay of desktop graphics, and desktop publishing along with digital media production.... and higher end Workstation applications, a new arena that the G5 has opened up for them.

However, just because the G5 appeals to both Apple's traditional high end desktop market and the new workstation market, it does not mean that there is no distinction between desktop and workstation, and that all workstation machines are desktops....

The G5 does represent a milestone, no matter how vehemently people argue that its all been done before...

BasketofPuppies · Sep 3, 2003, 02:53 AM

If you want to get technical, all of Apple's PowerPC systems are 64-bit. The 970 is the first time that the data paths are also 64-bit rather than 32-bit like in previous PowerPC systems.

voodoo · Sep 3, 2003, 04:48 AM

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
If you want to get technical, all of Apple's PowerPC systems are 64-bit. The 970 is the first time that the data paths are also 64-bit rather than 32-bit like in previous PowerPC systems.

Mhmmm and the Atari ST was a 32-bit computer. It was just 16 bit outside the processorcore. (hence ST = SixteenThirtytwo)

D'Espice · Sep 3, 2003, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by DaedalusDX:
Uh... scott, the Opteron will not run at full 64 bit potential until Microsoft releases a version of Windows XP tweaked for 64 bit...

So, you have NOT seen an AMD machine that "totally utilizes 64 bit processing"

So even if you do have an Opteron on your desk, its running 100% 32 bit code. A 32 bit OS, and 32 bit apps...

Well obviously you are not aware that unlike Apple computers, there's more than just one big operating system for PCs. There's also Linux PPC, granted, but let's be serious, who would want to use that? Plus, we still haven't seen the first PPC64 port of any Linux yet.
However SuSE-AMD64 is available, RedHat-AMD64 Beta is available and so is Mandrake-AMD64 - now are you REALLY sure that I am running 100% 32-bit code on my Opteron?

If Debian-AMD64 would be available yet, I'd be running 64-bit OS and 64-bit apps 24/7 and until then, I'm running three 64-bit operating systems for testing and Debian-IA32 to do my actual work.

Misanthrope · Sep 3, 2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Link:
Yet you can't be bothered to install MyIE2 or the darned googlebar.

Dude, LOOK at the picture. Google Bar is in CLEAR VIEW.