[sibellc]

I've been wondering what happened to various Apple technologies from days past. Obviously they're not around anymore in current form, but why were they discontinued, and have they been adapted into modern technologies/features?

My list: (in no particular order)

1. OpenDoc
2. PowerTalk
3. ADD (Apple Data Detectors)
4. QuickDraw GX
5. QTVC (QuickTime Video Conferencing)
6. CHRP (Common Hardware Reference Platform)
7. CyberDog (The best browser ever)
8. The Apple PC Compatability Cards
9. Apple TV Tuner Cards (Wouldn't that be nice to include in the iMacs?)
10. The HDI-45 monitor port (What was the point of that?)
11. MkLinux
12. Serial port networking: why wasn't it replaced by USB networking for simple, occasional file transfer?
13. The ability to hold down shift while caps lock is activated to type lowercase (present in the Apple IIGS version of the MacOS)
14. The keyboard-based power key

Is there a modern incarnation of the Advanced Technologies Group?

I'm probably forgetting quite a few, feel free to add on!

Cody Sibell

[bradoesch]

Originally posted by sibellc:
12. Serial port networking: why wasn't it replaced by USB networking for simple, occasional file transfer?

It was replaced by Ethernet networking. Much faster and easier. All shipping Macs that had USB also had network cards, and 10 base-T Ethernet roughly the same speed as USB.

[sibellc]

I know that. But to transfer files between computers using ethernet, you either need a hub or a cross-over cable. (I know, 1000BT is auto-sensing cross-over/straight-through) I'm not talking about permanent networking. It just seems that since USB is the replacement for serial, it should do everything serial did.

Originally posted by bradoesch:
It was replaced by Ethernet networking. Much faster and easier. All shipping Macs that had USB also had network cards, and 10 base-T Ethernet roughly the same speed as USB.

[snct]

...
11. MkLinux
...

It's still around, but I don't think any current developement is being done. Everything is moving to the New World machines.

Yeah; the keyboard based power button was very cool. I miss it. At least some version of Hypercard is still around (not free anymore though ).

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by sibellc:
I know that. But to transfer files between computers using ethernet, you either need a hub or a cross-over cable. (I know, 1000BT is auto-sensing cross-over/straight-through) I'm not talking about permanent networking. It just seems that since USB is the replacement for serial, it should do everything serial did.

Apple did not develop USB. Blame HP for that. I think...

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Apple did not develop USB. Blame HP for that. I think...

Intel.

BTW: It was never intended for simple networking, on a Mac, sibellc.

[sibellc]

Okay, okay. Let's not get stuck on this one; I'm far more interested in some of the other ones. My point was that with serial, you could hook up two macs with a readily available cable and transfer files. Starting with the iMac, you couldn't do this.

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Intel.

BTW: It was never intended for simple networking, on a Mac, sibellc.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by sibellc:
Okay, okay. Let's not get stuck on this one; I'm far more interested in some of the other ones. My point was that with serial, you could hook up two macs with a readily available cable and transfer files. Starting with the iMac, you couldn't do this.

i wouldnt really say that serial cables are more redily available than ethernet... i think i might have one old one in a box in my basement compared to the hundreds of feet of ethernet cable i have

[sibellc]

In 1998 I'm sure you had more serial cables than you did ethernet cross-over cables. Today I'm sure most people have more USB cables (though not A-A) than they do ethernet cross-over cables.

Originally posted by Phanguye:
i wouldnt really say that serial cables are more redily available than ethernet... i think i might have one old one in a box in my basement compared to the hundreds of feet of ethernet cable i have

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Intel.

BTW: It was never intended for simple networking, on a Mac, sibellc.

We were both wrong.

From http://www.apple.com/usb/pdf/USB_FAQ-c.pdf

Q. Who developed USB?

A.USB was developed by the personal computing and telecommunications industries, including such companies as Compaq, DEC, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, and NorTel (Northern Telecom).

Hp is not listed, but then doesn't HP own Compaq now?

[:XI:]

Originally posted by sibellc:
I know that. But to transfer files between computers using ethernet, you either need a hub or a cross-over cable. (I know, 1000BT is auto-sensing cross-over/straight-through) I'm not talking about permanent networking. It just seems that since USB is the replacement for serial, it should do everything serial did.

But with ethernet, USB doesn't need to do everything serial did. Besides a usb a to a cable won't cut it either, you'd need a usb transfer cable, they've got a little circuit in them that stop you frying the usb ports. how many people have those lying around? oh, yeah, they cost about fives times as much as a crossover ethernet cable of the same length.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by sibellc:
In 1998 I'm sure you had more serial cables than you did ethernet cross-over cables. Today I'm sure most people have more USB cables (though not A-A) than they do ethernet cross-over cables.

no one has a-a that would be required... and it would be cheaper to go buy an ethernet cable than it would be to go buy a usb cable..

i mean really... anymore if you are just making small transfers you might as well just email them to yourself

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by sibellc:
13. The ability to hold down shift while caps lock is activated to type lowercase (present in the Apple IIGS version of the MacOS)

I am so glad that this was NEVER implemented IN the Mac OS (it never did it on my old Mac Plus (OS 6.5.5), that's as good as never for me). It does this in Windows, and almost any time I have to type a block of text in caps using the caps lock key, I end up going back removing the lowercase letters that I have put in sub-consciously.

10. The HDI-45 monitor port (What was the point of that?)

The thinking has gone in to the ADC cable on all apples current monitors. I only ever saw one Mac with a monitor connected up directly to this socket, most of them where using the (rare as hens teeth) addapter to connect a regular (Apple type) monitor D plug.

9. Apple TV Tuner Cards (Wouldn't that be nice to include in the iMacs?)

Interfaced directly with the on board video. killed when Apple started to use ether 3rd party video chip sets (ATI) and cards.

8. The Apple PC Compatability Cards

They just became uneconomic. A cheap PC and a KVM switch box could be had for less than the price you would have to charge for developing the card.
Also imagine the heat problems that would be caused by sticking a P4 in one of the PCI slot's in a G4 or 5

I don't know about you, but I have never seen a USB to USB cable, they are always USB to some sort of smaller plug.

[Sealobo]

Those things existed before the original iMac right? I guess Jobs chopped most of those items that weren't doing much for Apple?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by sibellc:
I've been wondering what happened to various Apple technologies from days past. Obviously they're not around anymore in current form, but why were they discontinued, and have they been adapted into modern technologies/features?

My list: (in no particular order)

1. OpenDoc

This is integrated into OS X - M$ uses OLE

2. PowerTalk

What is that? I've never heard of it.

3. ADD (Apple Data Detectors)

http://dictionary.reference.com/mac/add.html
looks like a cool thing! Should be integrated into Services in OS X - maybe they will one day.

4. QuickDraw GX

This is integrated into OS X

5. QTVC (QuickTime Video Conferencing)

iChat AV?

6. CHRP (Common Hardware Reference Platform)

Killed by Steve Jobs and Bill Gates when they realized the lameness of the idea.

7. CyberDog (The best browser ever)

Safari? What was so great about CyberDog?

8. The Apple PC Compatability Cards

Hm. This is a grey area since VPC exists and works ok. Anyways this is something that got Steved.

9. Apple TV Tuner Cards (Wouldn't that be nice to include in the iMacs?)

100% agreed. Most (if not all of the )graphics cards in Macs can handle TV signals just fine, but this is a feature that was phased out. Shame that.

10. The HDI-45 monitor port (What was the point of that?)

Search me.

11. MkLinux

www.mklinux.org

12. Serial port networking: why wasn't it replaced by USB networking for simple, occasional file transfer?

More importantly where is IP through FireWire?

13. The ability to hold down shift while caps lock is activated to type lowercase (present in the Apple IIGS version of the MacOS)

Neat feature. Would like to see it in OS X.

14. The keyboard-based power key

GIVE IT BACK APPLE

Is there a modern incarnation of the Advanced Technologies Group?

http://www.apple.com/scitech/research/papers/acg/

Doesn't look like it's been updated for a while.

"The four primary areas of focus are:

1. Mac OS X, especially scientific applications

2. PowerPC G4 vectorization across the applications spectrum

3. Tutorial materials for science customers and developers

4. Algorithm implementations for specific Apple products"

G4? Apple Garamond? Hm.

[willed]

Originally posted by sealobo:
Those things existed before the original iMac right? I guess Jobs chopped most of those items that weren't doing much for Apple?

I'm sure QuickDraw VX was still around at the time... never was sure exactly what it did... not sure about the rest.

[wataru]

Originally posted by voodoo:
More importantly where is IP through FireWire?

In Panther.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by wataru:
In Panther.

good

[SupahCoolX]

On the simple networking issue:
1) All Macs for the past few years have had auto-sensing ethernet ports, so crossover cables are unnecessary.

2) Firewire disk mode is, by and large, the modern incarnation of serial port networking to transfer files.

[JHromadka]

7. CyberDog (The best browser ever)

www.apple.com/safari

8. The Apple PC Compatability Cards

I used a Mac with one of these back when I taught for one semester. Loved it. Perhaps some enterprising company could release some PowerMac board with this ability.

12. Serial port networking

Meh. You got IP-over-Firewire now.

14. The keyboard-based power key

www.apple.com/powerbook or www.apple.com/ibook

Originally posted by voodoo:
This is integrated into OS X - M$ uses OLE

No, it isn't. OLE is like an OpenDoc Lite, or a copy of Publish and Subscribe from System 7. I don't know of any OpenDoc-like functionality in MacOS X.

What is that? I've never heard of it.

PowerTalk was in System 7 Pro and lived a very short life. You basically clicked a little arrow and email (LAN-based email) headers dropped down so you could email your doc. This worked in any doc created in a PowerTalk supported app. WordPerfect supported it, but I don't think much else did.

Search me.

It was basically like ADC with audio and ADB. Only one monitor (the 14" AV Display) ever supported it, and the only Macs that supported it were the Centris 660AV and Quadra 840AV. To use this monitor with another Mac you had to use a ridiculously huge adapter that resembled a squid. (I used to call is the MacSquid)

More importantly where is IP through FireWire?

I think it is in Panther?

GIVE IT BACK APPLE

Ugh. Hate it. Then again, I would like to see the caps lock key removed anyway. When do you need to type in all caps anyway? The control or command key belongs there anyway.

[mac-at-kearsarge]

Originally posted by hayesk:
It was basically like ADC with audio and ADB. Only one monitor (the 14" AV Display) ever supported it, and the only Macs that supported it were the Centris 660AV and Quadra 840AV. To use this monitor with another Mac you had to use a ridiculously huge adapter that resembled a squid. (I used to call is the MacSquid)

I'm pleased to say that I have a 14" AV display hooked up ti a PM 7200, this means I have a 'MacSquid'.

When I get my digital camera back from a friends barrowing it, I'll take pics.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by JHromadka:
8. The Apple PC Compatability Cards

I used a Mac with one of these back when I taught for one semester. Loved it. Perhaps some enterprising company could release some PowerMac board with this ability.

You could buy one of those computers that are in a 5.25" enclosure that you can actually put in a drive bay...

Interfaced directly with the on board video. killed when Apple started to use ether 3rd party video chip sets (ATI) and cards.

I don't know about you, but I have never seen a USB to USB cable, they are always USB to some sort of smaller plug.

Actually, the TV cards still existed when Apple was using ATi video chips (Rage II, et al).

As for the USB cables, you can get a special USB data transfer cable.

Originally posted by sibellc:
Okay, okay. Let's not get stuck on this one; I'm far more interested in some of the other ones. My point was that with serial, you could hook up two macs with a readily available cable and transfer files. Starting with the iMac, you couldn't do this.

Uh... heard of ethernet?


Gotta say, sounds like you just went through a list on some webpage of every obscure (and not so obscure) Apple technology from the past that you could find, and decided to post them... heh.

[dlefebvre]

I sometimes miss �beige�...

[Mediaman_12]

Originally posted by hayesk:
It was basically like ADC with audio and ADB. Only one monitor (the 14" AV Display) ever supported it, and the only Macs that supported it were the Centris 660AV and Quadra 840AV. To use this monitor with another Mac you had to use a ridiculously huge adapter that resembled a squid.

The 1st gen PowerPC's (that used the same case's) also had the things (all the ones at collage where 6100's and these had them. also a Printers I worked at got a load of them as bankrupt stock from somewhere that closed. They where mostly useless, as nobody had bought any of the adapters. Doh!), the AV display had all sorts built in to it like 2 more ADB sockets, speakers and a (directional) mic (for 'plaintalk' speach recognition).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by dlefebvre:
I sometimes miss �beige�...

No no: ... "platinum".

[ink]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
No no: ... "platinum".

Limited edition platinum... signed by Woz himself. :-)

I miss the iMac colors too. This chiq-60s brushed metal/space-age white is getting kind of old.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by ink:
Limited edition platinum... signed by Woz himself. :-)

I miss the iMac colors too. This chiq-60s brushed metal/space-age white is getting kind of old.

By the law of returning design styles, next up should be black with wooden endblocks.



-s*

[sibellc]

Gotta say, sounds like you just went through a list on some webpage of every obscure (and not so obscure) Apple technology from the past that you could find, and decided to post them... heh. [/B]

I was reading an old Macworld article about Copland, and that got me thinking about the degree to which technologies that got the axe get reused/encorporated into modern products. These were the ones I remembered. Granted, some were more intriguing than others.

[Stradlater]

15. Jello Pudding Pops