[Eug]

"There were no new G5 PowerMacs MWSF 2004!"

[eddiecatflap]

..what a let down that was

[Jayznkelc]

Good, means my single 1.8 G5 won't be double outdated in the few short months I've had it. I was hoping Apple would introduce new flat panel displays, I keep hearing rumors about them. I need something to blow my tax return with.

[Hinson]

To reiterate (meaning "copy-paste") the note I posted in the message area...


Okay, I'm not an mp3 music listener... just don't spend much of my day listening to music, I guess. So iPods just don't interest me (but great for Apple if they sell a million of 'em--I'm fine with that�it�s just that personally a 50GB iPod for $99.95 would only interest me at a technical level).

BUT, what I DO need is a new top-of-the-line Mac. And when I buy a new Mac, I try to spend as much as I can on the finest they have and at a time when I feel I'm getting the best deal for the future. I don't buy a new Mac too often, because I have a family to support, etc. I waited FOREVER for the G5. Then I heeded the warning about holding out for at least the second revision.

But HEY, IBM is producing the G5, and they're going to really push it forward, right? We're going from 2GHz to 3GHz in a year, right! So, we should see an updated Mac G5 line-up before too long, right?

Obviously I was REALLY hoping to see something new with this keynote. I didn't, and so I'm STILL waiting. I�m too embarrassed to say how old my G3 is, but trust me, I�m HURTING for a new Mac. But since I�ve waited this long, I wont be plopping down the big-bucks for anything until Apple upgrades their PowerMac line-up. I just can�t do it.

With a CPU that�s being updated more regularly, I think Apple just has to update their line-up at least twice a year. This isn�t the days of the �when will Moto upgrade it� G4. These are G5-times! Let�s get those updates flowing, Apple! I�ll be rushing to the head of the line with lots of dough to throw at you when you do!


-Jay

[The Ancient One]

Originally posted by Hinson:
To reiterate (meaning "copy-paste") the note I posted in the message area...


Okay, I'm not an mp3 music listener... just don't spend much of my day listening to music, I guess. So iPods just don't interest me (but great for Apple if they sell a million of 'em--I'm fine with that�it�s just that personally a 50GB iPod for $99.95 would only interest me at a technical level).

BUT, what I DO need is a new top-of-the-line Mac. And when I buy a new Mac, I try to spend as much as I can on the finest they have and at a time when I feel I'm getting the best deal for the future. I don't buy a new Mac too often, because I have a family to support, etc. I waited FOREVER for the G5. Then I heeded the warning about holding out for at least the second revision.

But HEY, IBM is producing the G5, and they're going to really push it forward, right? We're going from 2GHz to 3GHz in a year, right! So, we should see an updated Mac G5 line-up before too long, right?

Obviously I was REALLY hoping to see something new with this keynote. I didn't, and so I'm STILL waiting. I�m too embarrassed to say how old my G3 is, but trust me, I�m HURTING for a new Mac. But since I�ve waited this long, I wont be plopping down the big-bucks for anything until Apple upgrades their PowerMac line-up. I just can�t do it.

With a CPU that�s being updated more regularly, I think Apple just has to update their line-up at least twice a year. This isn�t the days of the �when will Moto upgrade it� G4. These are G5-times! Let�s get those updates flowing, Apple! I�ll be rushing to the head of the line with lots of dough to throw at you when you do!


-Jay

Based on Apple's past performance, look for the next speed bump on January 26th or 27th.

[Hinson]

Originally posted by The Ancient One:
Based on Apple's past performance, look for the next speed bump on January 26th or 27th.

OOooo... that would be nice! I love having something to hope for, regardless of how sketchy the data


-Jay

[Eug]

Well the G5 Xserves aren't shipping until February at the earliest, so I expect the new 90 nm G5 Power Macs might be announced around then, with the new low end G5 Power Macs shipping immediately after the announcement.

[The Ancient One]

Originally posted by Hinson:
OOooo... that would be nice! I love having something to hope for, regardless of how sketchy the data


-Jay

Don't get too excited - announced end of January = ship in March (except the top-end unit which will turn up in April).

[Lateralus]

Yeah... Only advantage to G5s having not come out today is the fact that my G4 is no more old-and-shitty than it was yesterday...

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Just like I have been saying for months

The Duals only started shipping in late Sept so I knew they wouldn't already be replaced.

[Turias]

Originally posted by Jayznkelc:
Good, means my single 1.8 G5 won't be double outdated in the few short months I've had it. I was hoping Apple would introduce new flat panel displays, I keep hearing rumors about them. I need something to blow my tax return with.

I hate it when people say this... "I want the world's technology to stagnate so I can feel good about my machine."

Selfish.

How about, "I am really excited where Apple and IBM are going with the G5 and I hope they can just keep on whipping those updates out there"?

Or even, "Wow, it's amazing how fast technology is improving! I can't wait until the newest and greatest thing is released!"

[Truepop]

I sold my dual 867 (I need to change my sig) in December so I could get a new G5 this month. I knew they wouldn't come out until the end of the month and I know they won't ship until it is too late for me to have it shipped to my college address but hopefully they will keep their OS 9 bootable G4 in the Apple store after the update and I can get one cheaply with a student developer discount and have it shipped next day... I am only hoping....

[NY152]

I totally agree with Hinson about the iPod. Great for Apple for bringing out a more affordable iPod (not as affordable as they should be mind you.) There just not what I watch Macworlds for.

However, the fact that Apple didn't update a single one of their consumer/pro macs (PowerMac, PowerBook, iBook, iMac, eMac) really has me disappointed. I am sure with all the hype which was going on prior to the show Steve himself knew this was going to be a let down for everyone.

Heres hoping for a surprise G5 update soon.

[WizOSX]

Originally posted by hinson

Obviously I was REALLY hoping to see something new with this keynote. I didn't, and so I'm STILL waiting.

Originally posted by NY152

I totally agree with Hinson about the iPod. Great for Apple for bringing out a more affordable iPod (not as affordable as they should be mind you IMO.) But the fact that Apple didn't update a single one of their consumer/pro macs really has me disappointed. I am sure with the hype which was going on the weeks prior Steve himself knew this was going to turn out to be a let down for everyone. Heres hoping for a surprise G5 update soon.

I feel the same as these two posts. I was completely underwhelmed by those announcements. Maybe of interest to some but I don�t think tremendously interesting to most. I doubt a very high priced competitor for flash drives (aka miniPod) is going to create major sales ripples anywhere. Why would you pay $249 for 4gb when $50 more gets you 15gb?

[Eug]

Originally posted by WizOSX:
I feel the same as these two posts. I was completely underwhelmed by those announcements. Maybe of interest to some but I don�t think tremendously interesting to most. I doubt a very high priced competitor for flash drives (aka miniPod) is going to create major sales ripples anywhere. Why would you pay $249 for 4gb when $50 more gets you 15gb?

Because the mini is half the size and weight of the normal iPod, but of course, that's off topic.

[mamamia]

have no fear - 90 nm G5's are already here!

go to this link and download the Xserve G5 Tech Overview .pdf file. First page it states the following:

What�s New?
� Single or dual 2GHz PowerPC G5 processors
using 90-nanometer process technology
� Gigahertz frontside bus with independent
data paths in and out of the processor
� Two independent frontside buses on dual
processor systems
� Point-to-point system controller
� Support for up to 8GB of 400MHz
ECC memory
� Fast 133MHz PCI-X bus for Fibre Channel,
RAID, SCSI, or cluster interconnect cards
� Dual Gigabit Ethernet interfaces on the main
logic board
� Up to three 80GB or 250GB Serial ATA (SATA)
Apple Drive Modules

That one flew in under the radar!!

[Eug]

Originally posted by mamamia:
have no fear - 90 nm G5's are already here!

Also noted in the Xserve thread.

[brinj]

Originally posted by Hinson:
OOooo... that would be nice! I love having something to hope for, regardless of how sketchy the data


-Jay

I think the Superbowl Ad will debut a new killer product in honor of the 20th Anniversary.

Also, we all need to remember that Apple has been trying to spread out announcements of new products rather than packing them all into the Macworlds.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by brinj:
I think the Superbowl Ad will debut a new killer product in honor of the 20th Anniversary.

They're not doing a SB ad - Pepsi is to launch the iTunes Music Store promotion.

[Filmo]

But I do need some fixes. How about that???

As documented on this site and many others, there are serious problems with the G5 and professional audio productions. I Will not buy a new G5 until this is fixed.... (and no, I'm not interested in attaching Radio Shack work-arounds, extra grounding cables, and new power supplies to fix it.)

Also I am interested in a new iBook, but again, many problems seem to abound, not the least of which is logic board failures (often repeatedly). What the fuk?? I can deal with crappy batteries wearing out after a year, but not random hardware failures.

Screw iPod and speed bumps. Lets dedicate the next round to fixing everything before moving forward...

[DrBoar]

With IBMs production of 90 nm G5 fitting the need of xServers (and presumably IBMs own Linux blade servers with IBM 970), it appears that the 90nm 970 will take some time to migrate to such a high volume product as the G5 tower. If the ramping up is resonably fast the next revison will use the 90nm and if IBM have serious trouble Apple have to make a minor speed bump with the current CPUs.

I remember some years ago when the G4 was "better" than the Pentiums as it was running cooler and had shorter pipeline . Now we are droling at the IBM 970 hot as hell and a very long pipeline

[NY152]

Originally posted by DrBoar:
I remember some years ago when the G4 was "better" than the Pentiums as it was running cooler and had shorter pipeline . Now we are droling at the IBM 970 hot as hell and a very long pipeline

Very True. Touch�

[The Ancient One]

Originally posted by The Ancient One:
Based on Apple's past performance, look for the next speed bump on January 26th or 27th.

After some reflection, I wonder if Apple will mark the 20th anniversary of the Mac on January 24th with an announcement. If not, well, this year's Super Bowl is February 1st.

[DaedalusDX]

Originally posted by DrBoar:
I remember some years ago when the G4 was "better" than the Pentiums as it was running cooler and had shorter pipeline . Now we are droling at the IBM 970 hot as hell and a very long pipeline

Actually, the G5's power dissipation is lower than the new Pentium 4 Extreme Edition, and compared to the Pentium, the G5s pipeline is not *as* long (16 integer pipeline stages on the G5 compared to 20 on the P4), but continues to be much wider.

[IFLY2HIGH]

I seen the 1984 ad pop up on apple's site again. They have updated it with the new ipod on the girl now. Doesn't really mean anything, but it's interesting they have updated a 20 year old movie and show boating it. Maybee for the new ipod mini's that just came out, or is it for something to come in a few weeks more for their 20th aniversery?



In the quicktime player on the left is the old version of the 1984 movie, and on the right is the one they are showboating on apple's website.

[Eriamjh]

"Oh, and one more thing.... There is no 'one more thing'."

[Commodus]

Originally posted by DrBoar:
With IBMs production of 90 nm G5 fitting the need of xServers (and presumably IBMs own Linux blade servers with IBM 970), it appears that the 90nm 970 will take some time to migrate to such a high volume product as the G5 tower. If the ramping up is reasonably fast the next revision will use the 90nm and if IBM have serious trouble Apple have to make a minor speed bump with the current CPUs.

I remember some years ago when the G4 was "better" than the Pentiums as it was running cooler and had shorter pipeline . Now we are drooling at the IBM 970 hot as hell and a very long pipeline

Actually, the PPC 970's pipeline is (I believe) shorter than the P4's, it's just considerably longer than that of the PPC 7400 series (the G4). It's also considerably wider, too. The extra depth in the 970 means that IBM will have a considerably easier time ramping the clock speed; the width helps offset this, although you need to optimise to make sure that you keep the chip busy (hence the flurry of G5 patches).

As for the migration of the 90 nm chips to the PowerMacs, it should actually be pretty easy so long as manufacturing has ramped up. If you can have a 2 GHz G5 in a 1U enclosure without it blowing up (albeit with extra cooling), then a mid-tower with all the extra room for heatsinks and fans can easily go higher than that. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility to see a 2.6 GHz G5 on the high end...

[djohnson]

I develop software on a Beige G3 upgraded to 466Mhz... Do you think I need a new machine? With student loans between myself and my wife, a new computer is a ways off... I think we will wait until at least dual 3Ghz. That would make a nice update. I have a feeling we will see new PowerMacs in a couple of weeks. Apple is trying to get away from major releases at Expo's. It helps with their stocks. Notice no large drop after MWSF? I will claim... dual 3Ghz announced in a few weeks and shipping in a few(4) months I want my Mac super sized! Oh and super new monitors too!

[Eug]

Originally posted by djohnson:
I develop software on a Beige G3 upgraded to 466Mhz... Do you think I need a new machine? With student loans between myself and my wife, a new computer is a ways off... I think we will wait until at least dual 3Ghz. That would make a nice update. I have a feeling we will see new PowerMacs in a couple of weeks. Apple is trying to get away from major releases at Expo's. It helps with their stocks. Notice no large drop after MWSF? I will claim... dual 3Ghz announced in a few weeks and shipping in a few(4) months I want my Mac super sized! Oh and super new monitors too!

No way man.

Dual 2.6 GHz at the most, and even that's pushing it. Dual 3 GHz will be later in 2004.

[djohnson]

I can dream right??? Well we will still wait until at least dual 3Ghz comes out. Who here can see Steve introing a dual 3.2Ghz instead of 3Ghz?

Beige G3's are the best Mac ever made!!!

[Eug]

Are you using OS X? I'd rip my hair out with a G3 466. Actually I'd rip my hair out with any OS 9 machine too.

Time to upgrade... Debt be damned.

Actually a dual 1.8 (or whatever the second tier machine is at the next G5 refresh) would serve you quite well. Indeed, even a used single 1.8 would be ultrafast compared to what you're running now.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by djohnson:
I develop software on a Beige G3 upgraded to 466Mhz... Do you think I need a new machine?

Yes, I upgraded from that machine exactly and I absolutely love the power and speed. As Eug said, 'debt be damned.'

[CIA]

As for the migration of the 90 nm chips to the PowerMacs, it should actually be pretty easy so long as manufacturing has ramped up. If you can have a 2 GHz G5 in a 1U enclosure without it blowing up (albeit with extra cooling), then a mid-tower with all the extra room for heatsinks and fans can easily go higher than that. I wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility to see a 2.6 GHz G5 on the high end...

Or, a modified G5 case with less heatsink and more room for extra HD's or another 5.25" bay. I doubt it will happen, but it would be at least possible with cooler running chips. What would be better.. 4 SATA drives and 2 5.25" bays at dual 2.0, or maybe 2.2, or the current case with faster CPU's and the same size heatsinks?

[Turias]

Originally posted by -Q-:
Yes, I upgraded from that machine exactly and I absolutely love the power and speed. As Eug said, 'debt be damned.'

Yeah, my G4/400 is really starting to feel like a hog...

Yikes!

[djohnson]

Of course I am running and programming under 10.2.8! The speed is slow, I spend more time compiling then coding but oh well... It will make a new computer feel so much faster!!!

On the debt thing... my entire check goes to pay the loan people. LOAN PEOPLE SUCK!!!! Sadly a new computer wont come anytime soon...

[Hinson]

Originally posted by djohnson:
I develop software on a Beige G3 upgraded to 466Mhz... Do you think I need a new machine? ...

Okay, I said i was too embarrassed to tell you how old my mac was, but since you have at least gone back to the Beige era, now I'll admit to it...

I'm running OS X on a Beige 266. I think it's the oldest Mac you can actually run X on. Now, I don't develop software at home, though I might like to, but with no USB, no firewire, no DVD drive, and two almost-full hard drive, I've really had to hold back on a lot of things I'd like to be doing at home. But when I plunk down the bucks, its going to be for a top-of-the line mac with DVD burner, plenty of ram, a large hard-drive, a new all-in-one scanner/copier/printer/fax, a good video capture device, new software, etc., and then I'll be back on top... at least for a while.


-Jay

[WizOSX]

Originally posted by Hinson

II'm running OS X on a Beige 266. I think it's the oldest Mac you can actually run X on.

I have two Macs right now, both running OS X. One is an iBook and the other is a PowerMac 7600 with a 200mhz 604e. It runs OS X (10.1) well enough to be usable as an extra machine when needed.

[Truepop]

Originally posted by The Ancient One:
After some reflection, I wonder if Apple will mark the 20th anniversary of the Mac on January 24th with an announcement. If not, well, this year's Super Bowl is February 1st.

Though it would be cool, the 24th is a saturday. If it is after January,

[djohnson]

To be truthful, I have added USB, better cideo card, 384MB ram, 40GB HD, new mouse, CDRW. So it is a little better then stock. The program I am attempting to get running takes about 5 minutes to compile... This really sucks. Anyone want to donate money to help get a new development computer? PM me or send paypal to [email protected]

[superfula]

How can anyone complain that there were no Powermac speedbumps at MWSF when no one was even expecting them? Save for appleinsider, which has no credibility then or now.

[Eug]

Originally posted by superfula:
How can anyone complain that there were no Powermac speedbumps at MWSF when no one was even expecting them? Save for appleinsider, which has no credibility then or now.

Because it has been over 6 months since the last Power Mac G5 announcement (notwithstanding the dual 1.8 announcement).

[djohnson]

Ahh they will come soon enough. I am now wanting a really fast laptop too Give it about a month and I bet we will know something. BTW I still say dual 3Ghz

[superfula]

Originally posted by Eug:
Because it has been over 6 months since the last Power Mac G5 announcement (notwithstanding the dual 1.8 announcement).

And....??

There hasn't been a powermac announcement at MWSF in 3 years. I see no reason why things would change. Apple has had the same release schedule for those same 3 years.

[WizOSX]

Originally posted by superfula

There hasn't been a powermac announcement at MWSF in 3 years. I see no reason why things would change. Apple has had the same release schedule for those same 3 years.

What is that schedule?

[Eug]

Originally posted by WizOSX:
What is that schedule?

Well, most of the of the winter Power Mac announcements in the last three years have actually been in February (although the 2001 Power Mac announcement was at MWSF I believe).

Originally posted by superfula:
There hasn't been a powermac announcement at MWSF in 3 years. I see no reason why things would change.

Why not? Things change all the time, and this is especially true with Apple's announcements lately. (eg. Xserve announcement at MWSF for instance.) The last summer Power Mac was in June, even though Apple's "schedule" had been in July or August in the years prior.

Anyways, if by the end of Feb. there is no new Power Mac, I'll leave it up to you to create the new Official "There were no new G5 Power Macs in Feb. 2004" complaint thread.

[SouthPaW1227]

I've been lurking around here and have been reading up on the hopefully soon-to-be updated G5 Towers & I think the new G5 Towers are due anytime now escp. w/ the G5 at 90nm. I'd say that on or after Jan. 20th, 2004 we'll see a bumped G5 Tower lineup, at least I sure hope so...I've been holding out on getting a G5 until the Rev. Bs and I'll be getting whatever's the top of the line when they're released...my only hope is that they won't take months to ship like the Dual 2.0s, but I doubt it since it's not a *brand new* product.

I wonder what other architechtural changes might come along aside from a Mhz bump? I'd *LOVE* to see some sort of new graphics card, but I don't really think there's anything better out there aside from them bringing the Radeon 9800 XT over to the Mac, now that would be awesome!

[superfula]

Originally posted by Eug:
Why not? Things change all the time, and this is especially true with Apple's announcements lately. (eg. Xserve announcement at MWSF for instance.) The last summer Power Mac was in June, even though Apple's "schedule" had been in July or August in the years prior.

Anyways, if by the end of Feb. there is no new Power Mac, I'll leave it up to you to create the new Official "There were no new G5 Power Macs in Feb. 2004" complaint thread.

Like I said, Apple has been pretty consistent with the release dates at the beginning of the year. What they do in the summer has no bearing on the fact that they haven't released a powermac at MWSF in some time.

I could start a thread like that, but I'm not the one in a habit of complaining about Apple's release schedules.

[WizOSX]

OK, so here's THE schedule:

Announcement date......Machine(s)
Jun. 23, 2003...............G5s
Jan. 28, 2003...............1.42 Dual MDD
Aug. 13, 2002...............1.00, 1.25, 867 Dual MDD
Jan. 28, 2002...............800, 933 Quicksilver
Jul. 18, 2001................733 Quicksilver
Jan. 09, 2001...............733, last of the B&W form factor

[Eug]

Some intriguing numbers:

IBM's SPEC scores for the 1.8 GHz G5:
fp: 1051
int: 937
transistors: 58 million
die size: 121 mm2

Extrapolating to 2.4 GHz:
fp: 1401
int: 1249
transistors: 58 million
die size: 66 mm2

Extrapolating to 2.6 GHz:
fp: 1518
int: 1353
transistors: 58 million
die size: 66 mm2

Dell's SPEC scores for the P4 3.2 GHz DDR400:
fp: 1267
int: 1205
transistors: 55 million
die size: 146 mm2

P4 3.2 GHz Emergency Edition:
fp: 1497
int: 1464
transistors: 178 million
die size: 237 mm2

So even if you knock 100 points off the scores for the 2.4 GHz G5 (since the scores don't scale 100% linearly), it's still faster for floating point than the P4 3.2, and is competitive for integer. Even better, have a look at the die sizes. The G5 90 nm is a sleek sportster by any comparison.

I don't really count the P4 EE because that's not a volume chip, and never will be. The chip of consequence on the Intel side will be Prescott, which will come out in February. However, it's a much larger chip than the 90 nm G5 - more power hungry. I suspect a G5 2.6 would be performance competitive with it though.

Originally posted by WizOSX:
OK, so here's THE schedule:

Announcement date......Machine(s)
Jun. 23, 2003...............G5s
Jan. 28, 2003...............1.42 Dual MDD
Aug. 13, 2002...............1.00, 1.25, 867 Dual MDD
Jan. 28, 2002...............800, 933 Quicksilver
Jul. 18, 2001................733 Quicksilver
Jan. 09, 2001...............733, last of the B&W form factor

Oh, I thought they were in Feb. (judging by the dates of publication of the Power Mac specs on the Apple support page). So all the winter Power Mac announcements were in January? Even better.

Bring on the 2.5 GHz G5s!

P.S. Which date in January is the most likely? An ad campaign around Super Bowl 2004 (early Feb.) would suffice though.

[SouthPaW1227]

Originally posted by Eug:
P.S. Which date in January is the most likely? An ad campaign around Super Bowl 2004 (early Feb.) would suffice though.

Heh, I like the "Emergency" Edition...nice touch

I'd say to be on the lookout starting Jan. 20th...speed bumps COULD happen that day if Apple has something bigger & better (i.e., something special dealing w/ it's 20th Anniversary) planned for either the 24th or 26th. However, I'd say the most probable dates for seeing speed bumps in the G5 Towers are:

Jan. 20th
Jan 26/27th
or Feb. 2/3rd

Although the 24th would be an awesome day for annoucements, it's sadly on a Saturday, which typically isn't good for business b/c the markets aren't open on weekends and news has a lesser effect.

I just HOPE they somehow manage a Dual 2.6Ghz at the top end, although a Dual 2.4Ghz would suffice Any word/rumors AT ALL on upgraded video cards (i.e., Radeon XT technology, etc.)?