Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

icruise · Jul 25, 2007, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

So what exactly is all that "studio support" giving to BD?

So is your position that Fox will never release anything?

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 10:13 AM

Fox is in a position to release a TON of good material and bring Blu-Ray up, but they don't. Die Hard, Predator, The Sound of Music, Aliens, The Commitments, and a ton of others. But they don't. So why not?

icruise · Jul 25, 2007, 10:26 AM

Well, conventional wisdom is that they were worried about security. (And before we start listing off movies that various studios have but don't release, keep in mind that all of these studios have been very reluctant to put their big titles on HD formats so far.)

With the recent upgrades to BR security, the hope is that they will start releasing things, although that's only speculation. But I think it's a little strange to say that it means nothing for them to be on one side or the other just because they're aren't releasing things right this second.

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 10:37 AM

Pfft. If Disney's releasing anything on BR, then there's no reason other studios shouldn't. End of story. It has to be something else.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

* Hot Fuzz (HD DVD)
* Shaun of the Dead (HD DVD)

I'm definitely in for these.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

Well, conventional wisdom is that they were worried about security. (And before we start listing off movies that various studios have but don't release, keep in mind that all of these studios have been very reluctant to put their big titles on HD formats so far.)

With the recent upgrades to BR security, the hope is that they will start releasing things, although that's only speculation. But I think it's a little strange to say that it means nothing for them to be on one side or the other just because they're aren't releasing things right this second.

If they were only waiting for security, they would've made announcements by now. And it's not that they're not releasing things right this second, it's that they haven't released a thing yet and have no plans to release anything in the future. I'd be pretty pissed about that if I was a BD owner.

More than likely they're waiting for the market to become bigger than the .5% of the home video market it is now. And with recent trends showing a slow in BD sales and an upswing in HD-DVD sales, there's no guarantee they'll stay BD exclusive.

Originally Posted by Eug

I'm definitely in for these.

Same here. Plus 300 and Bourne Identity. Ever since a Movie Stop opened near me I've been buying more. Trading in 4 DVDs and get $20 off a new release is a great deal (considering how many horrible DVDs I have).

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 11:33 AM

I gotta say this, though: in looking for Streets of Fire last night, I found that saying "HD-DVD" doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "Blu-Ray" does.

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by starman

I gotta say this, though: in looking for Streets of Fire last night, I found that saying "HD-DVD" doesn't roll off the tongue as well as "Blu-Ray" does.

I don't really care who wins, but that is one of a few superficial reasons why I lean toward Blu-Ray.

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

I don't really care who wins, but that is one of a few superficial reasons why I lean toward Blu-Ray.

Right? I mean, I found that saying "HD-DVD" last night to a handful of people was just too much of a mouthful, where "Blu-Ray" was just simple. Two syllables vs. five.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 11:40 AM

Yeah, I think the name "HD DVD" is kinda lame.

Also, searching for "HD DVD" on some websites gives you a ton of DVDs. Not so bad these days though. It was worse last year.

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 11:43 AM

I'd be more inclined to call it H-DVD, as its a little easier, but wholly inaccurate, I guess.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Dakarʒ

I'd be more inclined to call it H-DVD, as its a little easier, but wholly inaccurate, I guess.

Plus "HDVD" is a bootleg format common in Chinatown.

I do prefer "HD DVD" to "HDVD" though personally.

I guess the one plus of the boring name "HD DVD" is that many people know immediately that it's a special kind of DVD. That said, marketing for the name "Blu-ray" has been pretty effective, so people know that they too are high-def discs.

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

Plus "HDVD" is a bootleg format common in Chinatown.

Heh.

Originally Posted by Eug

I do prefer "HD DVD" to "HDVD" though.

I don't much care, except the latter is way easier to say.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 25, 2007, 12:20 PM

Thieves choose Blu-ray over HD DVD in mass disc heist - Engadget

Hilarious comments.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Thieves choose Blu-ray over HD DVD in mass disc heist - Engadget

Lamest article on the format war yet.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 25, 2007, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Lamest article on the format war yet.

Yet the 100th sale on HD-DVD players with X number of free crappy movies is news worthy every week.

pooka · Jul 25, 2007, 12:28 PM

I typically just say "HD". Walk into store "Do you have such and such on HD?" and all is well. So if Sony would just let Doo-Ray die, everyone could be happy.

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by pooka

So if Sony would just let Doo-Ray die, everyone could be happy.

Yes, this thread illustrates that perfectly.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Yet the 100th sale on HD-DVD players with X number of free crappy movies is news worthy every week.

? You don't like cheap prices?

Or do you prefer uber cheap prices from stolen merchandise?

Anyways, some can make use of the pricing news...

Originally Posted by Montezuma58

Thank's Eug I put in my order.

BTW, as far as I'm concerned, $199 price point is pretty significant.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Thieves choose Blu-ray over HD DVD in mass disc heist - Engadget

Hilarious comments.

Engadget is by far the most absurdly Blu-Ray leaning site I've ever seen. To an annoying degree.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Yet the 100th sale on HD-DVD players with X number of free crappy movies is news worthy every week.

Right, because the BluRay deal is giving MUCH better movies.

Originally Posted by pooka

I typically just say "HD". Walk into store "Do you have such and such on HD?" and all is well. So if Sony would just let Doo-Ray die, everyone could be happy.

I do the same thing. Asking where the "HD" section is or if they have any more "HD" movies. Even the walmart drone I talked to knew what I was talking about.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 25, 2007, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

? You don't like cheap prices?

Or do you prefer uber cheap prices from stolen merchandise?

Sure I do... but what help is it being? Both you and I both got out players at FULL price. In fact you payed more than me with your Xbox/HD combo and you never use the Xbox for games.

I payed less for my PS3 at launch and I use it for games/DVD/BR.

50% of this multi-page thread is price drops, sales and free movie offers from HD... but they are still LOSING and have not gained more studio support.

Next they have to start giving the players away for free and hope people still want them even though they can't get their favorite movies with their Free/$99/$199 player.

Oh and who the hell would pay for this dual player with for the money you can get 4 stand alone BR and HD players:
Officially Official: Samsung Finally Announces Its BD-UP5000 Blu-ray HD DVD Hybrid Player, plus HT-B2 Blu-ray Home Theater and Two More BD-Ps - Gizmodo

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 25, 2007, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Engadget is by far the most absurdly Blu-Ray leaning site I've ever seen. To an annoying degree.

So what you're saying is Engadget is the ones who robbed the store and didn't want HD even for free?

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Sure I do... but what help is it being. both you and I both got out players at FULL price. In fact you payed more than me with your Xbox/HD combo and you never use the Xbox for games.

What are you talking about?

I don't like a lot of those games like Halo, but I use it to play other games, and I use it to stream music. Forgive me if I don't spend all of my time playing every single game on every single console out there.

If I just wanted an HD DVD player, I wouldn't have bothered with the 360.

Furthermore, just because you and I bought consoles doesn't mean that's where the format war is going to be won. The place it's going to be won is in the standalone market, for obvious reasons.

I think you're just annoyed that Blu-ray is too an expensive a technology, and can't keep up with the price drops that HD DVD is dishing out. Certainly, Panasonic is super pissed off, as evidenced by their anti-LG vitriol at association meetings. Basically, Panasonic's standalone sales are in the toilet... because of HD DVD.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

So what you're saying is Engadget is the ones who robbed the store and didn't want HD even for free?

No, what he's saying is that that Engadget will go far, far out of its way to post anything that might even remotely support the Blu-ray cause, regardless of how irrelevant it is.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:01 PM

Well there's that and the comments are ridiculous there. They should call it En-BLURAYFANBOY-gadget. The guy who typically writes for the HD section is so blatantly biased in what he says that I can't take anything they post there seriously. (I'm not doubting this story as factually true, but many stories I just roll my eyes at)

HighDefDigest is a much better place to get news about this stuff.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Sure I do... but what help is it being? Both you and I both got out players at FULL price. In fact you payed more than me with your Xbox/HD combo and you never use the Xbox for games.

Are you blind? Someone bought a player based on Eug's post. Get over it.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

50% of this multi-page thread is price drops, sales and free movie offers from HD... but they are still LOSING and have not gained more studio support.

They are "losing" but they're showing increases in sales and BluRay is showing decreases. PS3 bubble is getting close to bursting, and the huge lead in standalones Toshiba has is going to pay off very shortly.

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 01:10 PM

Target it supposed to be announcing BR-exclusive support in all their stores today or tomorrow.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879992

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Target it supposed to be announcing BR-exclusive support in all their stores today or tomorrow.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=879992

If true, that's interesting, and a boost for Blu-ray. We shall see.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:26 PM

Hmmm...not sure I buy it. Would it make financial sense to abandon 40% of the HD market?

If so, though, that's a huge hit to HD-DVD. Way more so than Blockbuster.

goMac · Jul 25, 2007, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Hmmm...not sure I buy it. Would it make financial sense to abandon 40% of the HD market?

It would be about shelf space. I've never pegged Target as someplace concerned about shelf space though.

ort888 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:30 PM

I'm not surprised. The format war hurts retailers as much as it hurts consumers.

I'm surprised that the movie studios and retailers have allowed it to go on so long. It's hurting both quite a bit.

icruise · Jul 25, 2007, 01:34 PM

I don't normally shop at Walmart, but I was there the other day and was surprised to see the Blu-ray section literally twice as big as the HD-DVD section. Target was about the same last time I checked. (To clarify, I mean that Target had the same shelf space for both formats.)

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:34 PM

Have any info about it hurting retailers? I assumed there was some hefty margin on the discs, especially since places like target sell for full MSRP.

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 01:35 PM

If you read the comments both on AVS and the forum they link to, it's ALL about shelf space.

Denon also announced their exclusive support for BR yesterday.

I'm not a BR fanboy at all, I'm just looking at all this support thinking "uh, hmmm....".

I ordered 2 HD-DVDs yesterday so nyah.

ort888 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:38 PM

Just a hunch.

I think the format war is hurting the whole industry. There is a lot up in the air right now and it's causing consumers to spend less. Most people don't want to commit to a losing format, so they are waiting to jump on board with either Hd-DVD or Blu-ray. At the same time, people will be more hesitant to buy DVDs, because they know that these other formats are out there. It's also causing confusion. Most people don't even know what these formats are.

I strongly believe that if there was just one format right now (and from the beginning) that it would be doing much better. There would be more adoption, more spending, more studio support and more retailer support.

As it is now, the whole industry is in flux and it's not benefitting anyone.

Kerrigan · Jul 25, 2007, 01:39 PM

It would be ironic if Blu-Ray won the format war, but disc sales never picked up and DVD remained king.

ort888 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

It would be ironic if Blu-Ray won the format war, but disc sales never picked up and DVD remained king.

I doubt that hi-def disc sales will ever pass DVD. Not for the next 5-10 years anyway.

Dakarʒ · Jul 25, 2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Most people don't want to commit to a losing format, so they are waiting to jump on board with either Hd-DVD or Blu-ray. At the same time, people will be more hesitant to buy DVDs, because they know that these other formats are out there.

That's me in a nutshell. I stopped buying movies on DVD a little over a year ago, though I think I've made up for it by buying so many old TV shows on DVD. I figure those can't be released with an HD picture.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Just a hunch.

I think the format war is hurting the whole industry. There is a lot up in the air right now and it's causing consumers to spend less. Most people don't want to commit to a losing format, so they are waiting to jump on board with either Hd-DVD or Blu-ray. At the same time, people will be more hesitant to buy DVDs, because they know that these other formats are out there. It's also causing confusion. Most people don't even know what these formats are.

I strongly believe that if there was just one format right now (and from the beginning) that it would be doing much better. There would be more adoption, more spending, more studio support and more retailer support.

As it is now, the whole industry is in flux and it's not benefitting anyone.

I'm not so sure. People who don't have HDTVs or those that do without BD or HD players don't even pay attention to the format war, and probably don't even know that it's going on. Hell, Jay Leno the other day when interviewing Sandra Bullock said he didn't know what Blu-Ray was, and thought it was "better than high def." DVD sales are not in a slump right now, and I doubt they'd be any better if the two new formats weren't around.

On top of that, you have a niche market spending a TON of money on expensive new players and expensive new movies. Is it a booming market? No, not yet. But there is money in it (if there wasn't, this thread wouldn't even exist as the formats would have no releases on either).

starman · Jul 25, 2007, 01:52 PM

I don't even look at the regular DVD rack anymore unless there's something I heard was coming out which probably won't make it on some high-def format for a long time.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by starman

I don't even look at the regular DVD rack anymore unless there's something I heard was coming out which probably won't make it on some high-def format for a long time.

Same here. If it's not in HD, I don't want it.

icruise · Jul 25, 2007, 02:58 PM

It's funny, but after a long drought, I've been buying some DVDs recently. Just catalog titles, but I've been finding some pretty nice DVDs (even some 2-disc sets, etc) for around $5 at various retailers. For a lot of these movies, I just can't justify paying literally five to six times the price for HD, when the DVDs are still very reasonable in terms of quality.

I don't buy new release DVDs except for TV shows, though.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 03:07 PM

If the DVD is $5 and the HD DVD is $30, I buy the DVD.

If the DVD is $20 and the HD DVD is $30, I buy the HD DVD.

icruise · Jul 25, 2007, 03:12 PM

Exactly.

jokell82 · Jul 25, 2007, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

It's funny, but after a long drought, I've been buying some DVDs recently. Just catalog titles, but I've been finding some pretty nice DVDs (even some 2-disc sets, etc) for around $5 at various retailers. For a lot of these movies, I just can't justify paying literally five to six times the price for HD, when the DVDs are still very reasonable in terms of quality.

I don't buy new release DVDs except for TV shows, though.

I had a long drought as well. But instead of buying cheap new DVDs, I got Netflix. Now I use that for anything I'm interested in seeing and only buy the HD version of movies I actually want to own.

icruise · Jul 25, 2007, 03:18 PM

I have netflix as well, of course, and I use it for things that I'm not sure I will like, or for new releases in many cases.

macintologist · Jul 25, 2007, 04:19 PM

When I moved into my room for the summer, next to my room door I spotted a fairly new VHS player sitting in a box abondened by its previous owner. I now check out more VHSs than DVDs from the public library because there are a lot of cool documentaries not available on DVD.

VHS kicks ass.

Eug · Jul 25, 2007, 05:01 PM

I still have my VHS player. I never use it, and in fact lately it's not even been plugged in, but I can't get myself to throw it out.

However, most of the time I just use it to convert my friends' home movies from VHS to DVD on my DVD-R recorder.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jul 26, 2007, 01:40 AM

Target Shoppers to See Blu This Christmas | High-Def Digest

icruise · Jul 26, 2007, 01:57 AM

Eh, not a huge deal.

starman · Jul 26, 2007, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

Eh, not a huge deal.

I think it is. You put something in a popular chain like Target and people will only know one format.