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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Desktops > Getting my Dad an iMac.

Getting my Dad an iMac.
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Googer-Giger
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Aug 1, 2010, 11:21 AM
 
Hey guys, my Dad has been using a DP 2.0 G5 since 2004 now, and for this christmas I am buying him a maxed out i7 iMac. I plan on hooking him up the 24" led to the mini display-port out (since he's used to dual displays). His machine is a workhorse, the fans are constantly spinning at an elevated rate. I know that an i7 with 8 gigs of ram would make that thing look like a tonka toy, and he shouldn't have issues. I am worried about reliability, I know the G5 isn't getting the greatest marks on this these days, but he has never had issues since 2004. He only reboots the machine less than once a week, he also has a messy machine; documents everywhere, leaving applications open for days without using them, like 5 ipods, etc. He doesn't do much graphic work, but he edits HD videos for his PR department, and likes to use 2 or 3 different browsers (stubborn), doing all this while creating animations for his keynote slides and reviewing flash videos for his website. He relies on his macs for his business (he has another Dual 2.0, and a 2.2 Ghz MBP), and he really cant afford to have to send this in or bring it to the apple store. Can I rest easy knowing that these new i7 iMacs are reliable?

Thanks, Jess
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
P
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Aug 1, 2010, 12:41 PM
 
You can't know how reliable they are until they've been out for a few years, but so far they've been working out. The newer Intel chips are quite tolerant of high temepratures (much more so than the older Core 2 chips) if that helps any.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
DarkStarRed
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Aug 2, 2010, 03:02 AM
 
That's nice can you give me one too!

Seriously what OS was he using? I'm sure it was Leopard anyway has P said but I'm sure things will be fine. It would be good if you taught him about Stacks (to keep items or folders of work with in easy reach) Spaces (to simplify his work space) Login items (for apps he needs at launch)

Are you adding the SSD that way he could have the apps launch instantly.
Also editing will be allot faster then the G5, leaving all those app's open...
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 2, 2010, 07:27 PM
 
DarkStarRed, he is using leopard, after tiger, after panther ever since his 17" Powerbook. I do plan on getting him a SSD, he is especially fascinated with the technology. Also, I never thought to teach him stacks or spaces, or even expose, but I will when he gets this beast of a computer.

Thanks again, guys.
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
polendo
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Aug 3, 2010, 06:47 PM
 
I would be more concerned on moving ALL his stuff including all his settings to the new iMac. He´s going to fly with this new Mac.
     
Thorzdad
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Aug 3, 2010, 07:19 PM
 
I can't speak for the i7 iMacs. I also moved from a DP2 G5 to an iMac. In my case, it's a 21" C2D from last November. Overall, it seems to be pretty reliable, though I seem to suffer an occasional Finder crash/freeze that necessitates a full reboot. I've not been able to figure out what prompts the crashes. I might just have too much going on at once.

I used Migration Assistant to move everyone's stuff from the G5 to the iMac and it went smoothly.
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 3, 2010, 10:32 PM
 
Well I plan on just moving his desktop and documents (two folders he has pretty much), backing them up on an external, and moving them to a folder on the new drive. I have done this many times, he doesn't need anything more than a few saved passwords.
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
macaddict0001
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Aug 4, 2010, 09:22 PM
 
The migration assistant is much smoother, any reason not to use it?
     
Veltliner
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Aug 4, 2010, 11:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Googer-Giger View Post
Hey guys, my Dad has been using a DP 2.0 G5 since 2004 now, and for this christmas I am buying him a maxed out i7 iMac. I plan on hooking him up the 24" led to the mini display-port out (since he's used to dual displays). His machine is a workhorse, the fans are constantly spinning at an elevated rate. I know that an i7 with 8 gigs of ram would make that thing look like a tonka toy, and he shouldn't have issues. I am worried about reliability, I know the G5 isn't getting the greatest marks on this these days, but he has never had issues since 2004. He only reboots the machine less than once a week, he also has a messy machine; documents everywhere, leaving applications open for days without using them, like 5 ipods, etc. He doesn't do much graphic work, but he edits HD videos for his PR department, and likes to use 2 or 3 different browsers (stubborn), doing all this while creating animations for his keynote slides and reviewing flash videos for his website. He relies on his macs for his business (he has another Dual 2.0, and a 2.2 Ghz MBP), and he really cant afford to have to send this in or bring it to the apple store. Can I rest easy knowing that these new i7 iMacs are reliable?

Thanks, Jess
Have you considered getting him a Mac Pro? All those open applications... I'm sure he won't change his habits.

If this is about a price limit, then maybe a refurbished dual 4-core would be nice, don't you think? If he's editing video, who knows, his eyes might get tired from the glossy screen. Also, for video editing you need huge data storage. Much more convenient to have this in a workstation.
     
SierraDragon
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Aug 7, 2010, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Googer-Giger View Post
I plan on hooking him up the 24" led to the mini display-port out (since he's used to dual displays). His machine is a workhorse, the fans are constantly spinning at an elevated rate. ...documents everywhere, leaving applications open for days without using them, like 5 ipods, etc. ...edits HD videos for his PR department, and likes to use 2 or 3 different browsers (stubborn), doing all this while creating animations for his keynote slides and reviewing flash videos for his website. He relies on his macs for his business...
Your description of his workflow strongly suggests a tower rather than an iMac. "the fans are constantly spinning" is a very important clue. iMacs are by definition engineering-compromised to achieve form factor while Mac Pros are engineering-optimized to be strong. With multiple displays the form factor issue is already blown. What your dad needs is strength not cuteness, go for a Mac Pro, even the 2006 ones are still hella strong for the work he does.

An added benefit is that a pro box enables setting up a righteous pro setup. Multiple identical displays (glossy not required), multiple internal SATA hard drives, tower remote from the desktop work space on a shelf or the floor, etc. Since "he relies on his Macs for his business" and the described workflow is heavy he deserves a Mac Pro.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Aug 7, 2010 at 12:39 PM. )
     
macaddict0001
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Aug 7, 2010, 11:08 PM
 
To be fair the fans in a G5 only shut off if it is in sleep mode or off. The fans in my G5 don't even ramp up to full when both processors are maxed, they do temporarily but then spin down when the machine realizes that things aren't that hot. Although I have noticed that depending on the work that is being done, they can get hotter, must be altivec or hardware acceleration or something because it mostly happens when encoding. Here we have fairly low ambient temperatures year round and I keep the dust out of it, its off the floor and gets cleaned at least once a year. I would think that any computer is designed to make full potential of its cpu and not be limited by cooling.
     
SierraDragon
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Aug 7, 2010, 11:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by macaddict0001 View Post
... I would think that any computer is designed to make full potential of its cpu and not be limited by cooling.
Sorry but that just is not true. There are reasons for all the beef in a Mac Pro; there is much more to heavy computer work than just the CPU. iMacs are great only if a single glossy non-upgradeable display, one hard drive and light duty are required, but for heavier work with multiple displays Mac Pros are far, far superior.

It is like comparing a lightweight Ford Ranger pickup to a 1-ton full sized pickup. Both will drive from SF to Reno at 65 mph, but if you intend to drive it round trip every day with 2000 pounds of cargo you will be hella more happy with the heavy duty truck.
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 8, 2010, 06:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by macaddict0001 View Post
The migration assistant is much smoother, any reason not to use it?
His files really need to be organized, and if they're simply placed right back where they were, it will not help his workflow. We have a Buffalo TB raid drive with gigabit ethernet and a real serious sonicwall switch, I figure transferring them to this is a great way to back up. Moving all the files to one folder on the new machine will seriously increase his workflow because he can just do a search for the file, like he does with the 4 or 500 files on his desktop. I am not exaggerating, sadly his MBP is like this to0. I hope I answered your question.

@sierradragon: ""the fans are constantly spinning" is a very important clue." I figured you can barely even compare the power of the i7 to a G5, there is such a huge difference, which is why the workload of the i7 is many times that of a G5. What is the difference between the new Xeon architecture and the i architecture? I want him to have the most advanced processor, because he won't buy a new machine for another 4 or 5 years after this thing. He literally does all of the same stuff on a Core Duo (Not 2, whichever the first generation MBP had) at 2 Ghz and 4Gb of ram. It runs everything so much better than the G5 just because of the amazing power and efficiency of an Intel chip versus IBM.

I am giving the Mp a chance, honestly a powerful server-based tower will appeal to him more than what looks like a toy, I suppose. He will have 2 displays, and it might be better to have 2 displays be the same size and resolution, rather than a 27" and a 24". He uses time machine (thank god) so he will need another Hd, internally. Another point for the Pro. Do the new iMacs have esata? 'Cause he's so sick and tired of using usb (he syncs to windows machines that even new, STILL have no FW800).

The price, this thing is seriously overpriced, Quad i7 iMac and 8Gb of ram AND another display is still cheaper than a pro with similar specs (disregarding the architecture differences between the processors). I am not being selfish, if you guys convince me to buy the pro I'll do it, my dad has spoiled me my entire life, its time to spoil him.

Jesse
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 8, 2010, 07:07 PM
 
You can get him a 27" LED Cinema display if having two identical displays is an issue.

Also, cheers on the "payback" sentiment. It's great that you're able to do that and actually doing it.
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 8, 2010, 07:11 PM
 
Apple makes a 27"?

And thanks for the cheers, my parents have always treated me so well, it's just a "no- brainier".
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 8, 2010, 07:18 PM
 
Um, yes - in fact, they ONLY make a 27" display.

The 24" and 30" have been discontinued and remaining stock is being sold off.

Apple - LED Cinema Display
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 8, 2010, 10:30 PM
 
Wow, look at that. Thanks.
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
Veltliner
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Aug 9, 2010, 05:01 AM
 
But I wouldn't buy one of the Apple displays, except the 30".

You're better off with a NEC. Or, if you can afford it, with an Eizo.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 9, 2010, 06:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
But I wouldn't buy one of the Apple displays, except the 30".

You're better off with a NEC. Or, if you can afford it, with an Eizo.
The 27" will match the 27" iMac - it's the same panel.

Depending on priorities and preferences and acceptability of glossy displays (and the final choice of CPU), that may be a killer argument.
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 9, 2010, 08:52 AM
 
I know they are overpriced, but I really love all of our apple displays. I really like top quality even back lighting and colors. Plus he has a MBP, so he can use the magsafe connector to charge his laptop on the side.
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
SierraDragon
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Aug 24, 2010, 08:28 PM
 
Jesse-

Mac Pros have substantially longer life cycles than Imacs or laptops. I do heavy graphics work and even managed to skip the G5 generation thanks to the long life cycle of the G4 tower.

Like your dad, I like to get a strong box use it hard and not have to change it for at least 5 years. My 2001 G4 tower ran graphics until 2006 and still is used for clerical work today. In 2006 I bought a 2.66 GHz Mac Pro and expect to get at least 8 years graphics work from it. The graphics card has been upgraded and 3 third-party drives added, 2 of which are in RAID0. It will get an SSD in the extra optical drive slot when SSD prices fall low enough to suit my finances.

Differences in real-world performance doing heavy computer work today hinge relatively more on things other than the CPU; processors over the last decade became so strong that differences among CPUs have become much less important than in the past. E.g. early Photoshop only ran on the top desktop box, and it still took overnight for some fairly basic image rendering. Today the processors in low end iMacs and Minis will run PS and even Aperture.

-Allen
     
Googer-Giger  (op)
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Aug 26, 2010, 10:10 AM
 
Very elaborate response, thank you. Yes both my father and I like for our computers to last as long as possible. I still use my G5 as well, the only reason my first intel mac was a MBP was because I was off to college.

Thanks for the help, everyone. I am convinced to go the pro route.

Also: I think I was wrong about buying apple displays, new ones, anyway. I am not so sure if 2 27" monitors will even fit on his desk. I might just go buy two refurb 23" ACD's, because I want those ones that came with his G5, I never had the glass-looking ones, I love them.

The time to replace it is near, unfortunately, he is getting a lot of kernal panics, ones where the screens go blank and fans run at full speed till you do a hard restart. Hopefully it's just the ram, hes got random chinese stuff in there.
I miss the days of the G5 and XPS Pentium 4 running side by side as high-end machines.
     
Veltliner
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Aug 27, 2010, 04:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
The 27" will match the 27" iMac - it's the same panel.

Depending on priorities and preferences and acceptability of glossy displays (and the final choice of CPU), that may be a killer argument.
Everybody decides for himself.

The glossy panels look good, but I don't want them for color critical work.

So: no more iMac for me, and nor more Apple display.

I wish Apple would offer an update of the Cinema display without the glossy screen - I just love the way they look.

But the Apple displays are consumer displays now. A dio, per sempre, RIP.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 27, 2010, 04:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
But the Apple displays are consumer displays now.
I've met pros who would completely disagree.

I really wish people who live off computer work would stop claiming stuff is useless for "pro" work just because they don't like it.

It might be your own shortcoming for being unable to deal with improved technology, you know. Please note that I'm not saying that you're deficient; I'm merely saying that your experience isn't easily generalized across all "pro" users. There's always a silent majority that's either a) happy, or b) too ****ing busy making money to complain, or c) just working with something else. (Remember the massive whining about the gumdrop buttons on OS X windows making graphics pros suddenly incapable of judging colors? I certainly do. Seems as utterly idiotic today as it did then.)

As for glossy displays, I've met people in category (b) - photographers, in fact. They often realize that professional tools are inherently compromises. Admittedly, the busiest guy I met talked about the glossy MacBook Pros, and since he works outdoors mostly (sports photographer), it was a HUGE improvement to be able to work in direct sunlight - which he'd never been able to do before.

As for you: Eizo and LaCie are still in business, AFAIK. Go crazy.
     
OreoCookie
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Aug 27, 2010, 05:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Veltliner View Post
I wish Apple would offer an update of the Cinema display without the glossy screen - I just love the way they look.

But the Apple displays are consumer displays now. A dio, per sempre, RIP.
I think you're exaggerating here: I use my computer 8-14 hours a day (depends on how much I work with pen and paper or how much I have to teach) so to classify glossy screens as `consumers screens' is just incorrect. You may think that the screens that are offered are in your opinion perhaps not ideal for your profession, but that doesn't necessarily translate to other lines of work or other people.

My new ProBook is my first computer with glossy screen: at first, I was worried whether or not I would like it, but after some use I have found that in 99 % of the situations, I don't notice any unwanted reflections. Quite the contrary, the high-res screen is gorgeous. I do have high-quality monitors at home and at work, though, that I use for editing images. My Eizo display is actually even more `saturated' than my 15" MacBook Pro display -- the gamut of that thing is just enormous. The new built-in screen is much better for quick edits of photos than the (matte) predecessor. I would have taken the matte display, but I always hated how dust collected in the tiny corners of the display frame. The glossy/glassy display don't have that problem

In any case, whether you prefer glossy or matte or whether you're indifferent about the subject is a matter of personal taste.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
   
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