[clod]

From CNN:
NASA is now officially confirming that the Space Shuttle Columbia has been destroyed.

[Cipher13]

There was a shuttle up there???

[jcadam]

Columbia was NASA's oldest shuttle. Maybe it should have already been retired. But at the time of its construction, I'm sure most people thought that the shuttle program would have been superceded by something new by 2003.

Nevertheless, I hope this doesn't seriously set back our manned space program.

I have nothing but respect for astronauts. Gutsy lads those are. This makes me sad.

[kdogg73]

[kovacs]

Apple has replaced all images of the space shuttle op their frontpage and on their displays...

It's tragic, I always secretly dreamed of becoming an astronaut...

[msuper69]

Originally posted by dillerX:
It has a "escape craft" of sorts. i would assume Russia has a craft to get there too if need be? Not sure though... ?

from CNN.com:

"Victor Blagov, deputy flight director for Russian mission control, was unaware that NASA officials had lost contact with Columbia when he was contacted by CNN.
Columbia did not fly to and from the station because the shuttle did not have the necessary docking port, Blagov said.
But, he added, should there be a decision to evacuate astronauts from the space station, they would be able to leave in the Soyuz Transport Module, which is parked there."

I wouldn't count on the Russians being able to launch a rescue craft on short notice as even NASA is unable to do this. The Soyuz is their only hope in an emergency.

[Mastrap]

Another weather radar image:



The circled area is the debris trail.

[malvolio]

[Cipher13]

That's horrible.

Not to divert attention from the tradgedy, but you know these people died doing what they loved, for one thing. Not much of a consolation, I know, but hey.

I suspect this may also make NASA get off their ass and build a new shuttle.

[CollinG3G4]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That's horrible.

Not to divert attention from the tradgedy, but you know these people died doing what they loved, for one thing. Not much of a consolation, I know, but hey.

I suspect this may also make NASA get off their ass and build a new shuttle.

They scraped the x-wing (not sure if thats the right name) projects after spending several billion dollars on development.

[subego]

Originally posted by CollinG3G4:
They scraped the...

Oooh. That's a bad typo.

[ericwass]

As far as the removing images of the shuttle debate: if the image is being used to push products (as it is on the Apple site) I think it's appropriate to remove it out of respect. As far as trying to erase the image of an intact shuttle from our collective memory - we shouldn't even try.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by vmarks:
This was Columbia's 28th flight. The shuttles are designed with a lifetime of 100 flights. Each shuttle goes through an overhaul / rebuild every 4th to 5th flight.

Calling it old is a bit of a fallacy. Sure, the design is a bit dated, but the Shuttles themselves are the best maintained vehicles in the world.

The design is what I'm talking about. Wonderful as it is, it's an early 1970s design and was always a compromise between cost and safety. There have been several proposals for replacements, and I think it is time (past time) to do it.

[anarkisst]

Originally posted by msuper69:
The ISS always has a crew aboard.

It was reported that there is an unmanned supply ship to take off this week for the crew on the ISS...and there is a Russian built escape pod for emergencies...God, what those crew mambers are going through right now up there...and the families of the shuttle down here too...my sympathies to them all...

Another point to make as far as terrorism....there isn't any here. We had a Saudi Prince onboard a previous shuttle mission if you remember...

[RGB]

Originally posted by Simon:
A completely wrong attitude.

You honor astronauts by showing what they do and how they do it. Hiding a space shuttle is ridiculous. We should print space shuttle pictures on the front page in honor of the these people's sacrifice.

Hiding it is just hypocrisy.

And when you're trying to sell a product, you want people thinking happy thoughts when they look at it. If they get sad when they see your product, they're less likely to buy

[wdlove]

My prayers go out to the 7 crew members of the Space Shuttle Columbia and their family, tragic!

[Simon]

Originally posted by RGB:
And when you're trying to sell a product, you want people thinking happy thoughts when they look at it. If they get sad when they see your product, they're less likely to buy

Aha, OK, but now we're talking business. For business it may be better to take the pics away, but it's certainly not about respect or mourning. It's just business and money.

[wdlove]

This isn't a business, but science research that has tragic risks. We need to honor their service!

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
The design is what I'm talking about. Wonderful as it is, it's an early 1970s design and was always a compromise between cost and safety. There have been several proposals for replacements, and I think it is time (past time) to do it.

A lot of things were design in the 70s. Take a look at the commercial airplanes...all of those are designed in the 60s~70s. Even military planes, F-14 (retiring), F-15, F-18. With the exception of the F-22 all these planes are pretty old.

I am not sure, but I think I read somewhere that it takes around 10 years for something to go from ground up to flying. Probably even longer.

Like vmarks said these are the best maintained vehicles in the world.

This really sucks ass...warmest wishes goes out to the families.

[The Mick]

I have always been a fan of the American space program, and especially the Space Shuttle. I had numerous books all about the spacecraft, the technology and proceedures as a child. This is a truly sad day.

I do think it is worth pointing out that the designs of the orbiters date back to the mid 1970's, and periodic technology updates have only improved the computerization. Perhaps it is time to redesign the system using modern CAD/CAM techniques and data modeling processes.

Having said that, 2 accidents in 113 flights is quite good for such an amazingly complicated process. I hope the astronauts have found a better place on the other side.

[Ozmodiar]

Bush, I was with ya until you quoted the Old Testament. Then you lost me.

[The Mick]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
A lot of things were design in the 70s. Take a look at the commercial airplanes...all of those are designed in the 60s~70s. Even military planes, F-14 (retiring), F-15, F-18. With the exception of the F-22 all these planes are pretty old.

I am not sure, but I think I read somewhere that it takes around 10 years for something to go from ground up to flying. Probably even longer.

Like vmarks said these are the best maintained vehicles in the world.

This really sucks ass...warmest wishes goes out to the families.

True, but commercial and military jets do not travel into space and fly at 17,000+ MPH. Also, airborne flying craft have a long history of testing and success, the shuttle is the first of its kind. As I said above, it is to the engineers' credit that it has been so successfull thus far.

[gumby5647]

*launches iTunes*

*plays*

Phantom Regiment (Amazing Grace)

[MikeM33]

I can't believe this. Just a few weeks ago someone was posting a thread about the 17th aniversary of the challenger disaster. when I first read this thread I really thought you people were just creating some Orson Wells-like/"war of the worlds"-like thread and that none of this was real, then i put the news on

"Almost home" is the only thing I can think of. They were almost home

MikeM

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by The Mick:
I have always been a fan of the American space program, and especially the Space Shuttle. I had numerous books all about the spacecraft, the technology and proceedures as a child. This is a truly sad day.

I do think it is worth pointing out that the designs of the orbiters date back to the mid 1970's, and periodic technology updates have only improved the computerization. Perhaps it is time to redesign the system using modern CAD/CAM techniques and data modeling processes.

Having said that, 2 accidents in 113 flights is quite good for such an amazingly complicated process. I hope the astronauts have found a better place on the other side.

NASA said something to the effect that statistically they plan on having trouble 1 out of every 75 flights.

Most definitely, we'll need a new shuttle program, especially a cheaper one. But I mean, I seriously doubt that this is a bad design or bad maintainence.

I hope that this does deal a too big of a blow to the United States Space program.

[Over Achiever]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
I hope that this does deal a too big of a blow to the United States Space program.

I hope you meant doesn't.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by MikeM33:


"Almost home" is the only thing I can think of. They were almost home

MikeM

I know. I thought the same. You can just imagine the scene, everyone strapped in, the computer taking over. Talking about how much they missed their families, their friends. Then - nothing. We can only hope that death came instantly.

[mac-at-kearsarge]

There are 5 cable news vans parked over in front of the Christa McAuliffe planetarium (Which some of you may recall is on the campus of my school, NHTI). I have feeling they'll be broadcasting from there for the next few days. Since to get to the dining hall, I have to walk through the entrance to the planetarium where most of the cameras were, if any of it is broadcast nationally/gloablly (which there's good chance it will), you might see me, as I ended having to walk close behing 3 of the reporters as they were doing interviews with the people who work at the planetarium. Also, I believe the McAuliffe family themselves were there, speaking to the press.

[roger_ramjet]

In the wake of the Challenger tragedy President Reagan addressed
the nation and ended with words from this poem:

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

John Gillespie Magee, Jr. (link via NRO)

[Hi I'm Mike]

50 years of NASA and only 3 accidents. I would have to say that it is still pretty safe.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Someone above mentioned the shuttle was flying at Mach 6, or 120,000 MPH. That is, of course, absolutely false, considering the speed of sound is ~332m/s.

Reports are changing by the hour, but it seems they were travelling at around 20,000 Km/h.

greg

[starman]

Originally posted by ShortcutToMoncton:
Someone above mentioned the shuttle was flying at Mach 6, or 120,000 MPH. That is, of course, absolutely false, considering the speed of sound is ~332m/s.

Reports are changing by the hour, but it seems they were travelling at around 20,000 Km/h.

greg

Yeah, I read that too. 720mph * 6 = 4320mph. 4320mph != 120,000mph.

Hmmm.

Mike

[suhail]

Apple also supported the last Mars mission, and it also failed!

[SimeyTheLimey]

I have a question for you all about the emotional impact. This forum has a considerable cross-section of ages. I'm wondering if the impact of this is going to be different by generation.

Of course, I'm as upset about this as anyone. The loss of life is just tragic. But I can't say that this has come as a shock to me. I'm just a couple of months short of 36. I remember the Challenger disaster very well. That was a shock to me. But ever since then, I've been expecting it to happen again just because of the experimental nature of the whole thing.

I'm wondering if this is just me? Are others roughly the same age feeling the same thing? Is this more of a shock for younger people? Or did growing up with the knowlege of Challenger prepare people to expect this at some point?

[simonjames]

Has NASA released the last verbal communication with the shuttle? I wonder when we'll find the full story?

[suhail]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I have a question for you all about the emotional impact. This forum has a considerable cross-section of ages. I'm wondering if the impact of this is going to be different by generation.

Of course, I'm as upset about this as anyone. The loss of life is just tragic. But I can't say that this has come as a shock to me. I'm just a couple of months short of 36. I remember the Challenger disaster very well. That was a shock to me. But ever since then, I've been expecting it to happen again just because of the experimental nature of the whole thing.

I'm wondering if this is just me? Are others roughly the same age feeling the same thing? Is this more of a shock for younger people? Or did growing up with the knowlege of Challenger prepare people to expect this at some point?

Not a big shock at all. Actually I'm quite impressed that we had so many successful ones.

[Face Ache]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I'm wondering if this is just me? Are others roughly the same age feeling the same thing? Is this more of a shock for younger people? Or did growing up with the knowlege of Challenger prepare people to expect this at some point?

I'm not surprised, shocked, upset or anything remotely resembling those emotions. It's just an unfortunate accident. Newsworthy definitely. But don't get too excited.

I am a little annoyed at the over-dramatics displayed in this thread. Particularly from those who would defend bombing (non-US) civilian areas. Which is the bigger tragedy?

[Freeflyer]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I have a question for you all about the emotional impact. This forum has a considerable cross-section of ages. I'm wondering if the impact of this is going to be different by generation.

I'm wondering if this is just me? Are others roughly the same age feeling the same thing? Is this more of a shock for younger people? Or did growing up with the knowlege of Challenger prepare people to expect this at some point?

I'm 37, so I'm around your age. I've followed the program since childhood, being a bit of a space nut. It was a blow to discover that being a Brit gave me sod all chance of ever getting into the program.

However, I now live here in Houston, and count a veteran (5 missions) astronaut as one of my friends. I've been given an insiders look at Nasa, and my heart goes out to everyone involved in the program and their families.

Yes, It's a massive shock. I was watching the nasa stream live when it happened, and hearing the loss of comms just made my heart sink.

I remember apollo 13 ( yes, I was 5, but a committed space nut even then), I'd left work early to watch the challenger launch on TV. Is it a surprise and a shock, yes, because I'm emotionally involved with space, as I'm sure many of the geeky people amongst us are, it hits very hard.

The fact that there was 5 mins of information indicating progressive loss of temperature sensors

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2717239.stm

suggests that this was a structural failure, that happened progressively, and possibly was caused by damage to the tiles on the underside of the wing (my theory). The damage possibly caused by the incident on launch. Speculation certainly, but I think it's the right direction.

My hope is that this may lead, finally, to an increase in budget for NASA, to update the space transportation system, which is due for overhaul, but I don't think that the age of columbia is really a factor here, due to the regular overhaul of the orbiter, together with the regular hardware updates that the orbiter fleet receive.

To answer your original question, I think that level of shock you feel is linked more to your level of involvement, than your age, although the older you are, generally, the more tragedy you have seen in your life. Although that also is dependent on the individual life lead, but it's generally true I feel.

I just hope that they continue to move forward, to back away from that would be an even bigger tragedy.

My 2c.

J.

[Biggysteve]

Texas is bad news.

[wdlove]

They have had many near accidents along the way, but they train for every contingency. They are ready to perform. Many redundant systems built in the the Space Shuttle. Our Astronauts are real professionals. They are a breed apart, family.

[trusted_content]

I woke up at 3:00 today to hear about this.

This is terrible news; my thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the 7 astronauts. I hope (and am fairly confident) that the US Space Program will continue to do amazingly cool things in space. And I hope that for the 7 astronauts, the things they experienced over 13 days, which few humans have ever been able to, made their relatively instant and painless (hopefully) death worthwhile. I must admit, given the invariably risky nature of space travel, I am amazed and celebrate whenever a shuttle crew manages to return to Earth successfully. When they don't, it is a tragedy, but hopefully a tragedy that will cause improvements in the safety and stability of future shuttle vehicles. Let NASA make sure these 7 did not die in vain.

[Face Ache]

In Hemphill, near the Louisiana state line, hospital employee Mike Gibbs reported finding what appeared to be a charred torso, thigh bone and skull on a rural road near what was believed to be other debris. Billy Smith, an emergency coordinator for three East Texas counties, confirmed the find.

[Parky]

I see the world is in over react mode again.

Of course it is very sad that 7 people died in the Space Shuttle, but it needs to be put in context.

They knew the risks they were taking when they joined the space programme.

What I would like to know is how many other innocent people have died in the world today. All the children killed in motor accidents, shootings, etc, why are they not in the news.

How many innocent people died today on US roads, through no fault of their own, where is there memorial. Where are your indications of grief for the friends and families of those people.

In the grand scale of things, this is not a major disaster, but we will make it one.

NASA and the USA will spend billions making sure the shuttle is safe for the next 7 people, how much are they spending on preventing road deaths? How much are they spending looking after the rest of the USA, making sure other things are as safe as space travel.

Yes it is a loss for the families and friends of the space crew, but the rest of the USA seem to be gripped with grief for people they do not know, but only astronauts.

Personally I would like to express my grief and sorrow for all the innocent people who have died in the world today. The many thousands who starve, die of curable diseases, HIV, accidents and victims of war. They are the people who are really suffering, think outside your boundaries and have compassion for them.

Ian

[Over Achiever]

Originally posted by ShortcutToMoncton:
Reports are changing by the hour, but it seems they were travelling at around 20,000 Km/h.

greg

Sorry, I meant 12,000 mph. And as for the Mach 6...I just heard that ... I might have heard wrong. Apparently I heard wrong.

But 12,000 mph...i'm fairly certain about that. Sorry for the mix-up.

[Montanan]

Originally posted by Parky:
Personally I would like to express my grief and sorrow for all the innocent people who have died in the world today. The many thousands who starve, die of curable diseases, HIV, accidents and victims of war. They are the people who are really suffering, think outside your boundaries and have compassion for them.

Ian

Thank you for posting that ... it's exactly what I've been thinking today.

[starman]

Parky,
Whose context are we talking about? Certainly not most people's.

Mike

[Montezuma58]

Originally posted by starman:
Yeah, I read that too. 720mph * 6 = 4320mph. 4320mph != 120,000mph.

Hmmm.

Mike

probably just a typo the shuttle was going about 12,000 mph.

[starman]

Originally posted by Montezuma58:
probably just a typo the shuttle was going about 12,000 mph.

Oh, I hope it wasn't another NASA English/Metric boo-boo.

Mike

[Parky]

A question for Starman.....

Is one person's life, more valuable than another ?

If not why do you not feel for all the other people whi died today ?

Or are US people better than everyone else in the world.

Why when there is a disaster do the news programmes always say 'valuable American Lives Lost', making all the others lives valueless?

I did not say it was not a sad day, I simply said, think of others as well. Don't just 'bask' in grief because you think you should. The media are to blame really, they report what makes good news, we don't want to see 'ordinary death', that's too boring, no we need to see 'spectacular death' or 'events'.

Thousands of people starving in Africa is boring, OH and it's not in the USA !!

[starman]

Originally posted by Parky:
A question for Starman.....

Is one person's life, more valuable than another ?

If not why do you not feel for all the other people whi died today ?

Or are US people better than everyone else in the world.

Why when there is a disaster do the news programmes always say 'valuable American Lives Lost', making all the others lives valueless?

I did not say it was not a sad day, I simply said, think of others as well. Don't just 'bask' in grief because you think you should. The media are to blame really, they report what makes good news, we don't want to see 'ordinary death', that's too boring, no we need to see 'spectacular death' or 'events'.

Thousands of people starving in Africa is boring, OH and it's not in the USA !!

Parky,
If I were to grieve as you said I should, I'd never leave the house since I'd spend all day sobbing over strangers.

Mike