[freudling]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_sZmKH25vM

[::maroma::]

Yeah, its pretty common knowledge that Japan is decades ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to cell phones (and arguably consumer electronics in general). So its a no brainer that the iPhone as it is today wont be making big waves in Japan. Of course, Apple has a few months left to add features and such to make it more appealing to the Japanese consumer. But for someone like the person they highlighted in their report, who uses their cell phone to do all of those things in their daily life, the iPhone isn't for them. There are people in the U.S. who are in the same boat.

[suhail]

Japan has some nifty phones, but nothing like the iphone. I can buy and sell stock on my iphone too. But I cannot use it as a Debit-Card, something that the US should get to. Europe and Asia can already use their cell-phones as debit cards, I don't see why we can't.
In most respects the US market has always been late to the game.

[chabig]

I'm sorry. Please explain why I would want to use my cell phone as a debit card? I'd much rather buy things with my mood ring!

[suhail]

You wouldn't know till you use it.
It's very convenient.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by chabig 

I'm sorry. Please explain why I would want to use my cell phone as a debit card? I'd much rather buy things with my mood ring!

Its a convergence of tools people use daily. Swiping a card, or swiping your cell phone, its the same thing. But you're just combining the two. Its called convenience.

The same question could be asked about listening to music on your cell phone. Or browsing the web on your cell phone.

[analogika]

And yet, how odd:

27.6% of Japanese mobile phone users willing to buy Apple iPhone - SlashPhone.com

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Yeah, its pretty common knowledge that Japan is decades ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to cell phones (and arguably consumer electronics in general).

More bells and whistles do not "decades ahead" make. They have shoved a ton of features into a large number of phones, but only a few of these phones are really well integrated, and as elsewhere noted, none of them is at all like the functionality of the iPhone.

I like the fact that Japanese electronics makers can put a whole lot of features in a tiny space, but I'm still waiting for innovation in their products. Different configurations of the same features and feature sets everyone else has is not the same as innovative products.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

More bells and whistles do not "decades ahead" make. They have shoved a ton of features into a large number of phones, but only a few of these phones are really well integrated, and as elsewhere noted, none of them is at all like the functionality of the iPhone.

Right, but you've also just described every other cell phone in the U.S. market today, aside from the iPhone. But the Japanese have a lot more "bells and whistles" that they've had time to integrate into their lives. There will probably be a lot more difficult to convince those people who use those things every day to give them up for a less featured, but better integrated phone. Maybe saying decades ahead was a bit of an exaggeration, but there's little doubt that the Japanese are using cell phones that are well ahead, feature wise, of the ones we have available to us in the U.S. (aside from the iPhone).

[icruise]

Well, the thing is that there isn't just a continuum from "primitive" to "advanced." Cell phones in Japan are very advanced in many ways (and I lived in Japan for a number of years, so I'm fairly familiar with them, although I'm not up to date with the cutting edge at the moment). But in terms of usability, most of them suck, just like phones here. Feature-wise, the iPhone isn't really that different even from other phones in the US -- they can mostly play music, "surf the web," and the like. But in terms of the implementation -- usability and UI -- the iPhone blows them all away. I guess it depends on what you value.

[freudling]

Sony and Samsung make very good phones. If you are not looking for a Smartphone, a Samsung flip phone is unrivaled in terms of physique, and has lots of features, as well as is very easy to use. Motorola, Nokia... all are complicated. The N95 is the only real competition for the iPhone when you really look at the spec sheet, and the N95 sucks in comparison. People here are selling their N95s for the iPhone.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Feature-wise, the iPhone isn't really that different even from other phones in the US -- they can mostly play music, "surf the web," and the like. But in terms of the implementation -- usability and UI -- the iPhone blows them all away. I guess it depends on what you value.

Yep, that's what Apple does.

ON PAPER, their products may have lower specs and shorter feature lists than competing products.

IN YOUR HANDS, you're *much* more likely to actually USE that functionality than on any competing product.

This does not necessarily apply to the Slashdot crowd.

[SEkker]

The issue is the network. Japan has real 3G network coverage.

There are times I'm frustrated by regular phone coverage here in the US.

[icruise]

Japanese networks area certainly ahead (I was surfing via a cellular modem when I lived in Japan years ago) but you do have to keep in mind that the entire country is about the size of the state of California, so getting coverage is a bit easier.

[hardcat1970]

It's not just Japan, most asian nations have more advance communication systems than U.S., which is a shock. I wonder why our government didn't do more. I can't even make a phone call in NYC subway.

[freudling]

icruise makes the point. The size of Canada/USA and the population base, particularly in Canada, provide huge hurdles for cell phone networks. In short, our landmass is huge, that means way more towers are needed compared to Japan. Oh, but our population is so much less. So putting up new towers, upgrading and maintaining them with all the logistics that goes along with that, results in huge costs for the cell phone carriers - that is why we are in the position we are.

[analogika]

You can do it, easy!

All you need is a Super Tower and a Windows PC.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by hardcat1970 

It's not just Japan, most asian nations have more advance communication systems than U.S., which is a shock. I wonder why our government didn't do more. I can't even make a phone call in NYC subway.

You hit the nail on the head. Our government just licenses the frequencies to corporations that invest the millions (maybe billions) of dollars it takes to build the cell infrastructure. Now in Japan and Korea, this is not true, because NTT and KTC are GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AND OPERATED COMPANIES. So every tax payer in Japan pays for EVERYONE'S cell infrastructure. Imagine what would happen if you taxed people in California for North Carolina's cell systems... That's right, riots in the streets, congrescritters run out of town on rails, pandemonium, etc.

You want better features and coverage here in the States? DEMAND your carrier provide it.

[icruise]

NTT may be government operated, but I'm not sure that they are responsible for all of Japan's cellular infrastructure -- there are many private cell phone companies in Japan after all.

[SEkker]

Also keep in mind that for much of our connection technology, the US instituted our networks first - and paid for it by being first.

In China, they have been connecting their country at the rate of adding a 'baby bell' every ~3 months. They may end up with the best internet infrastructure on the planet - and they paid a lot less because the technology was already worked out.

I am hoping one outcome of the sale of the 700 MHz spectrum is a new, updated (4G??) cell phone network - maybe paid for by Google.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

You hit the nail on the head. Our government just licenses the frequencies to corporations that invest the millions (maybe billions) of dollars it takes to build the cell infrastructure. Now in Japan and Korea, this is not true, because NTT and KTC are GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED AND OPERATED COMPANIES. So every tax payer in Japan pays for EVERYONE'S cell infrastructure. Imagine what would happen if you taxed people in California for North Carolina's cell systems... That's right, riots in the streets, congrescritters run out of town on rails, pandemonium, etc.

NTT was privatised in 1985.

And I'd like to see numbers on U.S. military/government spending on telecommunications research in the '80s and '90s before considering your point again...

[Big Mac]

A major reason why America is behind other technological countries in cell phone tech is because America was the first with land-lines and invested its money early on in that area. Many of the countries that enjoy advanced cell technology have it because they rely to a much greater degree on cell phones and thus invest and expect much more.

[::maroma::]

It also doesn't help that companies like Comcast and the like are pretty much monopolies in the broadband business. They won't allow for competition (they've blocked it many times) and so we're stuck with whatever they give us, and whatever they choose to charge for it. And our government is too funked up to do anything about it.

I always wonder why my cable internet bill keeps going up every year, yet my service and features stay exactly the same. Pretty much ass-backwards to me.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

NTT was privatised in 1985.

And I'd like to see numbers on U.S. military/government spending on telecommunications research in the '80s and '90s before considering your point again...

Having been involved in telecommunications in those decades, I'm curious to know what you're getting at. Considering the military units I was with having to use FIFTY YEAR OLD radios for basic communications, I think that most people think "military" means "give 'em every possible new thing in the world." It just ain't so.

Much of what was developed (to my knowledge) during that time period was reliable, portable and dependable satellite communications equipment. And surprisingly enough the compandor technology used in early analog cell phone systems was adopted by the military for some voice systems. Further, since about 1990, the Department of Defense has been relying very heavily on PRIVATE research. "Commercial, Off The Shelf" equipment is the watchword-mainly because military R&D tended to produce equipment that weighed too much, ran down batteries too quickly, and cost ten times as much as commercially available equipment. The first GPS I ever touched was the PSN-8, a 17 pound luggable ONE CHANNEL GPS receiver. This was 1992.

Don't believe the TV shows-GIs get crap and ancient stuff most of the time, with only very special units getting new and/or special equipment.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Further, since about 1990, the Department of Defense has been relying very heavily on PRIVATE research. "Commercial, Off The Shelf" equipment is the watchword-mainly because military R&D tended to produce equipment that weighed too much, ran down batteries too quickly, and cost ten times as much as commercially available equipment.

How is government-funded private research NOT "U.S. military/government spending on telecommunications research in the '80s and '90s"?

Or are you saying that the government did not at all fund private telecommunications R&D, instead just waiting for "natural" development and then purchasing off-the-shelf devices exclusively?

I strongly suspect the answer is "a little of both".

[Andhee]

Originally Posted by analogika 

And yet, how odd:

27.6% of Japanese mobile phone users willing to buy Apple iPhone - SlashPhone.com

And how did they test that then? The statistic in that just seems to be a random guess.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by hardcat1970 

I can't even make a phone call in NYC subway.

I'm not looking forward to the day you can.

[jamil5454]

The reason I bought the iPhone is for its ease of use and the touchscreen. It's such an upgrade over my Samsung A640 flip phone that it's amazing I didn't have a smart-phone before. No more lugging my laptop around with me on campus to check my email!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

How is government-funded private research NOT "U.S. military/government spending on telecommunications research in the '80s and '90s"?

Or are you saying that the government did not at all fund private telecommunications R&D, instead just waiting for "natural" development and then purchasing off-the-shelf devices exclusively?

I strongly suspect the answer is "a little of both".

Almost entirely the latter. Some equipment must have characteristics that don't lend themselves to commercial applications, but for the most part, the DoD has been buying stuff that had already been developed-and often been proven in the field for years-instead of funding research to develop military -specific hardware.

Different subject: the latest issue of PC Magazine reviewed the iPhone and gave it good marks for everything but being a phone. Does it really take that many inputs (up to six taps) to dial a stored phone number? Is the earpiece audio actually that weak and nasty sounding?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Andhee 

And how did they test that then? The statistic in that just seems to be a random guess.

FTFA:

"In the poll conducted by Mitsubishi Research Institute and Rakuten Research Inc. from late June to early July, 5.2 percent of some 2,200 respondents said they were ''very willing'' to buy the iPhone handset, the institute said. A total of 22.4 percent said they were ''somewhat willing.''"

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Almost entirely the latter. Some equipment must have characteristics that don't lend themselves to commercial applications, but for the most part, the DoD has been buying stuff that had already been developed-and often been proven in the field for years-instead of funding research to develop military -specific hardware.

Thanks for that info!

(Of course, it stands to reason that NTT being a private company, the government had minimal involvement in telecom tech development in Japan, as well - although knowing the Japanese penchant for interbreeding and *ahem* strong "business friendships", that's not so likely...)

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Thanks for that info!

(Of course, it stands to reason that NTT being a private company, the government had minimal involvement in telecom tech development in Japan, as well - although knowing the Japanese penchant for interbreeding and *ahem* strong "business friendships", that's not so likely...)

Yeah, I have a feeling that I'm not too far off the mark in thinking that NTT is privatized mostly in name only... Around here, enriching oneself while enriching one's contributors gets politicians 1) caught, 2) fired, and 3) often imprisoned. In Japan, it's apparently expected. Sorry Japan fans, but I just can't stomach that. I like my cads and miscreants out in the open where all can see them.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Yeah, I have a feeling that I'm not too far off the mark in thinking that NTT is privatized mostly in name only... Around here, enriching oneself while enriching one's contributors gets politicians 1) caught, 2) fired, and 3) often imprisoned.

At the risk of turning this into a political debate, it's probably worth mentioning that all of Halliburton completely disagrees.

Cronyism and profiteering is a disease that appears to be the norm, rather than the exception, in many places.