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yoda9999 · Dec 24, 2007, 08:17 AM

A 2GB PC2-5300 667Mhz module for Aluminum iMac is $500 at the Apple Store, but less than $100 in other places. Why the extreme difference? I know components from Apple are more expensive, having own 68k Macs in the past, but this seems extreme.

Sherman Homan · Dec 24, 2007, 09:56 AM

It is wildly expensive, but some people don't like the uncertainty of surfing teh intarwebs in search of "1GB PC2700 DDR333 6NS CL2.5 REGISTERED ECC 184 PIN SDRAM". Some people don't want to open up their 'Book and look into its guts. They want a 17 year kid to do it with a guarantee from Apple.

chabig · Dec 24, 2007, 10:31 AM

a) You're in luck, I just checked and the price is down to $300, with free shipping!

b) Apple really doesn't want to be in the business of selling highly price-volatile commodity parts. They don't want the price to vary on a daily basis, so they set a high price so they can remain profitable despite price fluctuations, and to discourage the business.

ghporter · Dec 24, 2007, 10:51 AM

There's also a bit of "nuisance charge" in their huge price. That makes it unattractive for most users to bother to go that route, so the users instead go elsewhere, while Apple still gets plenty of business with BTOs that go to corporate users. Just never buy RAM from Apple and you won't have to worry about it.

mduell · Dec 24, 2007, 01:17 PM

Maintaining profitability through spot price fluctuations is one thing, $500 for a $40 part (a $20 net cost since it's an upgrade) is another.

There's a glut in the DRAM market right now; a number of the PC laptops released next quarter will max out the memory (4GB) as the base configuration.

Buy 3rd party and install it yourself.

zaghahzag · Dec 24, 2007, 02:38 PM

yoda,

You point out a very longstanding issue with Apple. They'd rather sell machines gimped on ram than lower their prices for memory, giving some of their customers a sub-par experience. Their response is to now and then up the minimum memory configuration, usually in a way that punishes you if you later upgrade on a 3rd party by making you buy extra ram. EX: MBP is not available with 1 2-gig stick of ram, instead you have to throw away two perfectly good 1 gig sticks to go from 2->4.

:brick :

but yeah, they must somehow think this makes sense.

peeb · Dec 24, 2007, 03:37 PM

This is the same pricing model as razors and blades, printers and ink. People who don't know better pay more, those who care don't. People pay exactly what they are prepared to pay for RAM.

ibook_steve · Dec 24, 2007, 04:11 PM

Also, any RAM that Apple sells has been thoroughly tested during the design of the machine in all possible configurations. (Believe me, I did it. Not fun sitting in the lab characterizing each and every address, data, and control line in every possible memory configuration.) All "supported" memory gets tested. Other memory you find has not been tested and has not been certified by Apple to work with their machines. You pay for the privilege of using Apple-certified memory.

Steve

yoda9999 · Dec 25, 2007, 01:41 AM

Thanks for all your responses. Yeah, I am guessing that Apple has to charge "nuisance charges" and what-not to end users, since they're not really in the consumer RAM business where they have to handle a large volume of orders and returns. They are setup to sell RAM to corporate customers whom they have a more formal relationship with.

Pierre B. · Dec 25, 2007, 10:42 AM

What are those "Apple-certified" and "nuisance charges" jokes?

Look at this example for the iMac:

4 GB RAM from Apple: 820 euros.
4 GB RAM from OWC: $ 97.5 = 67.7 euros with today's exchange rates.

To put it mildly, this is at least insulting. No, thanks, I will install everyday third-party memory from a seller with good reputation, lifetime warranty, easy memory selection according to Apple model (and not cryptic memory specifications) and reasonable prices, like OWC. And there are others too.

zaghahzag · Dec 25, 2007, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Also, any RAM that Apple sells has been thoroughly tested during the design of the machine in all possible configurations. (Believe me, I did it. Not fun sitting in the lab characterizing each and every address, data, and control line in every possible memory configuration.) All "supported" memory gets tested. Other memory you find has not been tested and has not been certified by Apple to work with their machines. You pay for the privilege of using Apple-certified memory.

Steve

Steve, could you elaborate on this?

- is each apple stick tested, or just sticks with those specs?
- what do they do? test sticks from one manufacturer and then always use those? I guess I want to know if there is really any difference, or if apple just ensures that they're selling you the same thing that they tested with their hardware.

thanks,
zz

mduell · Dec 25, 2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Also, any RAM that Apple sells has been thoroughly tested during the design of the machine in all possible configurations. (Believe me, I did it. Not fun sitting in the lab characterizing each and every address, data, and control line in every possible memory configuration.) All "supported" memory gets tested. Other memory you find has not been tested and has not been certified by Apple to work with their machines. You pay for the privilege of using Apple-certified memory.

Other manufacturers also test for compatibility with the Intel chipsets that Apple uses. You can find a complete list of tested modules at intel.com.

Jesus On Cheese · Dec 25, 2007, 08:57 PM

The problem with certified memory is that they tell you what works, but not what has been tested and found not to work.

In my broad experience with PPC macs, 'generic' RAM works at least 80% of the time. With my narrower MacIntel experience, every module I have used has worked. In other words, it is worth just buying whatever and plugging it in, if it doesn't work sell it and try something else.

50leaves.com · Dec 26, 2007, 02:52 AM

Ive had bad apple memory and 3rd party memory before. Its all the same really. Don't bother spending all that money on "apple memory".

ibook_steve · Dec 26, 2007, 03:24 AM

Originally Posted by zaghahzag

Steve, could you elaborate on this?

- is each apple stick tested, or just sticks with those specs?
- what do they do? test sticks from one manufacturer and then always use those? I guess I want to know if there is really any difference, or if apple just ensures that they're selling you the same thing that they tested with their hardware.

thanks,
zz

All BTO sticks (supported capacities and supported manufacturers, usually Hynix, Samsung, and Micron) are tested and characterized. Apple is selling you the same sticks tested in the lab.

Steve

Reyox · Dec 26, 2007, 10:58 AM

Just got 2 x 2GB sticks of Ram for MacBook Pro from NewEgg.com !

Bargains with rebates!

metaphoar · 02:39 PM

...

Cadaver · Dec 26, 2007, 10:04 PM

All manufacturers sell overpriced RAM. Dell, HP, Apple, etc. Apple may charge more than Dell, but once you know they all over-charge, it doesn't really matter.

zaghahzag · Dec 26, 2007, 10:10 PM

Yeah, for kicks I went and checked apple's ram prices and they're literally 10x what you can get online 3rd party. Shocking..

For the price of RAM right now they should move all models to 2 gigs min and make the upgrade to 4 gigs be 150$. Then it'd be somewhat reasonable. JEEZ.

Love Calm Quiet · Dec 27, 2007, 09:52 AM

So what's the complaint -- if you are capable of following simple installation instructions (on most units).

What is means is that Apple's bottom line is subsidized by the ignorant and completely incapable (without raising price on other hardware) - leaving you the option to save enormously by buying RAM elsewhere and installing by yourself.

I've been using that strategy for 15 years - and had only ONE bad module from a (respected, good-warrantee) third party. That module was under a "Lifetime Warranty" - and so (since the company was a long-term player in the market) was replace readily and without charge by company (Chip Merchant out of San Diego - no longer necessarily the cheapest, but very good).

mduell · Dec 27, 2007, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by zaghahzag

For the price of RAM right now they should move all models to 2 gigs min and make the upgrade to 4 gigs be 150$. Then it'd be somewhat reasonable. JEEZ.

With the current glut in the DRAM market, they'll probably move to 4GB stock in 2008 just like the PC OEMs.

zaghahzag · Dec 27, 2007, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Love Calm Quiet

So what's the complaint -- if you are capable of following simple installation instructions (on most units).

What is means is that Apple's bottom line is subsidized by the ignorant and completely incapable (without raising price on other hardware) - leaving you the option to save enormously by buying RAM elsewhere and installing by yourself.

I've been using that strategy for 15 years - and had only ONE bad module from a (respected, good-warrantee) third party. That module was under a "Lifetime Warranty" - and so (since the company was a long-term player in the market) was replace readily and without charge by company (Chip Merchant out of San Diego - no longer necessarily the cheapest, but very good).

Yeah, as has been pointed out, apple has been doing this forever. It's just that they haven't been this out of touch with prices for a long time. 800$ for a 80$ retail part? 10X markup? Come on.

The argument has also been made forever although maybe not in this thread, that this poorly serves apple in the long run by them selling machines that are ram hungry, reduces their revenue by making people go 3rd party, and leaves people thinking they're a bunch of schisters. Which they are.

Also, it's wasteful. I'd really rather not have to throw out old sticks. Carbon footprint and all that..

Its nice that apple wants to support the 3rd party RAM market for macs and the current batch of machines are only slightly gimpy with their ram offerings, but for a long time macbooks were sold with 512 megs, which is totally ridiculous.

DCJ001 · Dec 29, 2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Reyox

Just got 2 x 2GB sticks of Ram for MacBook Pro from NewEgg.com !

Bargains with rebates!

I got 4GB for $79.99 with free shipping:

Newegg.com - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 200-Pin DDR2 SO-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Notebook Memory - Retail

I put it into my May 2007 MacBook.

nickhos38 · Dec 30, 2007, 01:31 AM

The 2 GB in my MBP wasn't that expensive from the Apple Store...

...because it came preloaded in my refurb laptop.

Simon · Dec 30, 2007, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by DCJ001

I got 4GB for $79.99 with free shipping:
I put it into my May 2007 MacBook.

Even if that pic shows your MB has recognized 4GB, you still will only be able to use 3GB. The only MBs that can actually use the full 4GB are the current Crestline MBs.

DCJ001 · Dec 30, 2007, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

Even if that pic shows your MB has recognized 4GB, you still will only be able to use 3GB. The only MBs that can actually use the full 4GB are the current Crestline MBs.

Performance testing of Apple MacBook Core Duo and Core 2 Duo Models with various Memory configurationsOtherWorldComputing.com

Simon · Dec 30, 2007, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by DCJ001

Performance testing of Apple MacBook Core Duo and Core 2 Duo Models with various Memory configurationsOtherWorldComputing.com

From that page:

"NOTE: A 4.0GB (2GB x 2 Pair) configuration was also tested by 'popular demand'. Although the Core 2 Duo Macs are limited to 3.0GB addressed, the 4GB Set (2GB x 2 Pair) does appear enable 128 Bit addressing. While there does seem to be a small performance benefit gained with the 4.0GB vs. 3.0GB config, we'd recommend sticking with 3.0GBs max (in Core 2 Duos) unless you absolutely are seeking every last trickle of performance boost possible.

Obviously you can do what you want, but there has been a lot of confusion lately on this board about the max RAM on Calistoga MBs.

I simply wanted to point out that just because your Mac recognizes 4GB does not mean it can actually use them. This is also easily verified with ActivityMonitor.

metaphoar · 02:39 PM

...

ed1604 · Dec 30, 2007, 11:41 AM

I also bought 4GB of RAM for my 24" iMac and installed with no problem. Am using the machine right now and the difference from the stock configuration is huge. But third party and you wont be sorry. Happy 2008 to everyone!

ohiodale · Dec 7, 2012, 08:40 AM

Apple products are much more expensive than PC products. Apples are proprietary. Memory should cost around $20 not $300. To say you are getting a good deal at $300 is so absurd. I know people love their Apples but at least admit they are way over priced, they are not as flexible as a PC, and they use all proporietary hardware, drivers and software. If you are willing to pay the extra costs than go for it. My wife loves her iPhone and I love my andriod which is lighter,thineer, uses google maps, gmail, and other open source applications.

Waragainstsleep · Dec 7, 2012, 02:39 PM

Well done for resurrecting a zombie thread.

Most Mac users either don't know they need extra RAM or they know not to buy it from Apple these days. Apple has always charged too much for RAM. While their RAM is often highly overpriced, the rest of their kit is not so much and flexible is only good for users who know what they are doing. Most users don't.

Those proprietary hardwares and drivers are what makes Apple equipment better than competitors. They don't cater for the cheap crap parts that would sully their reputation by affecting reliability.
Gmail works across all platforms including the iPhone and Mac OS and iOS have plenty of open source tech and industry standards support. Your Android is a poor copy of an iPhone made with cheaper components, lower build quality, rushed software (which is also quite proprietary to Samsung, HTC or whoever supplied it) and a handful of mostly useless cheap 'extra features' that you never use and were bolted on by accountants or marketing "experts" in order to make the handset look more appealing.