[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...onspiracy_dc_1

"Copies have been flying off shelves," a saleswoman at FNAC bookshop in central Paris told Reuters. It shot to the top of Amazon France's bestseller list and made it to second place in the booksellers' weekly Livres Hebdo's sales list. "

"Meyssan, president of Reseau Voltaire, a respected left-wing think tank, reckons the American Airlines Flight 77 that crashed into the Pentagon in Washington killing 189 on September 11 did not exist and that the whole thing was staged by the government. "

"I believe the American government is lying... No plane crashed into the Pentagon," he told France 2 television."

Another fave quote:
"What became of the passengers of American Airlines Flight 77? Are they dead?" he asks. (Nahh! They're all just asleep somewhere! Not to worry! )

And left wing 'think tank'? In France at that? Could there be a greater example of oxymoron?

Meanwhile we have:
Jewish School Bus Attacked in Paris

and

Soccer Team Attacked in France

Molotov Cocktails, Arson, Synagogue bombings, other fun stuff

Gee, it's so nice to see that a nation that not so long ago was a Nazi BITCH STATE learned sooooo much from its lessons.

[maroma]

The sooner this planet rejects the human race, the better.

[juanvaldes]

****ing french!

[Teronzhul]

Yeah, i saw this a couple of days ago on msnbc. i couldn't believe it then, and it still seems absurd. Of course, following that story, they had an interview with the author of a book who said that pedophiles weren't so bad.... gotta love msnbc

[dav]

the french don't exist.

[Spheric Harlot]

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

This is a good start for those interested.

[scaught]

see? philzilla made some anti french statements in the ca$h thread (i think) and people thought it was unfounded.

theres some stories to be told about frances govt, for sure. i think i also read something about france not turning over some known terrorists for some reason? anyone read anything about that?

[xi_hyperon]

The french continue to make a great name for themselves. Hypocritical, pretentious, and now insulting to those who died or lost loved ones. Yes I know I'm generalizing, but the fact the book is selling so well says something about the people, not just the author. That is all.

[anarkisst]

Gee, this photo pretty much lays this "think tank" dicussion to rest...



Whenever something unbelievable happens (Pearl Harbor, JFK, Apollo 11, UFOs et al) the conspiracy freaks come out of the woodwork. French or not...they're all pretty much attention seeking idiots. And the gullible read it...

Now if terrorists slammed an airliner into the Eiffel Tower...who'd be spouting off **** then?

[sek929]

France? Are they still a country? Hehe.

Conspiracy theory people are a bunch of paranoid retards with their heads stuck firmly between their two buttcheeks.

[maxelson]

On this: you guys HAVE heard this Congresswoman from... what...Georgia? Implies that there was some kind of Bush led plot to ignore warning of 9/11? Hoganesque to be sure!
Check it out. It is soooo rich: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Apr11.html

I love to see these folks backpedaling. I can feel the wind all the way up here in NE.

[daimoni]

.

[TNproud2b]

Originally posted by daimoni:
<STRONG> ................../snip/

Just keep in mind... what have the French done of any significance (culture-wise) for the past 50+ years. Nothing, I tell you! </STRONG>

hahahaha

right on.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by daimoni:
<STRONG>Just keep in mind... what have the French done of any significance (culture-wise) for the past 50+ years. Nothing, I tell you! </STRONG>

well, they DID get Jerry Lewis out of our hair for a while.

that's gotta count for something.

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by maxelson:
<STRONG>On this: you guys HAVE heard this Congresswoman from... what...Georgia? Implies that there was some kind of Bush led plot to ignore warning of 9/11? Hoganesque to be sure!
Check it out. It is soooo rich: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Apr11.html

I love to see these folks backpedaling. I can feel the wind all the way up here in NE.</STRONG>

she may be a crackpot, but it has been reported that the phillippine government tried to warn the US about pending terrorist attacks, as well as some other countries' intelligence networks.
but the problem was that telling someone about an impending attack without specifics is a little hard to do anything about.
so, she is correct in a small way, but not the way she is implying.

I instead think its more an example of agency lack of proper attention, incompetence or misjudgement rather than an outright plot to cause 9.11 to occur. Even I don't think that, and I hate the bush administration.

[scaught]

Originally posted by maxelson:
<STRONG>On this: you guys HAVE heard this Congresswoman from... what...Georgia? Implies that there was some kind of Bush led plot to ignore warning of 9/11? Hoganesque to be sure!
Check it out. It is soooo rich: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Apr11.html

I love to see these folks backpedaling. I can feel the wind all the way up here in NE.</STRONG>

im moving.

[Bockie]

Originally posted by maxelson:
<STRONG>On this: you guys HAVE heard this Congresswoman from... what...Georgia? Implies that there was some kind of Bush led plot to ignore warning of 9/11? Hoganesque to be sure!
Check it out. It is soooo rich: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Apr11.html

I love to see these folks backpedaling. I can feel the wind all the way up here in NE.</STRONG>

She's a crack-pot! She gets elected then goes psyco! A HUGE majority of her constituents want her out of office. If she gets reelected, I'LL move to France!

[edit: spelling]

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: Bockie ]

[Millennium]

Yeah. Don't you know? The attack on the Pentagon never happened. It was ataged by the EVIL ALIEN SERPENT PEOPLE who really run the US (and most of the rest of the world, for that matter).

In all seriousness, I know people who saw the attack with their own eyes.

But then, "left-wing think tank" is just as oxymoronic as "right-wing think tank". Heck; they're both as oxymoronic as "political think tank" now that I think about it.

[ort888]

Well, they did a good job fooling everyone. I live in DC and I heard the impact and saw the smoke. I'm pretty sure it happened.

[maxelson]

Originally posted by Millennium:
<STRONG>Yeah. Don't you know? The attack on the Pentagon never happened. It was ataged by the EVIL ALIEN SERPENT PEOPLE who really run the US (and most of the rest of the world, for that matter).
</STRONG>

Oh, hey, now. Watch it with the Icke stuff. Hogan gets very sensitive when we invoke the "serpent race" stuff. Illuminati. Heh.

[ringo]

Bah, should have let the Germans keep 'em.

[Xaositect]

Another interesting twist - those of you who remember the late '80s/early '90s "the holocaust never happened" movement didn't get press until the neo-nazi movement started touting it, but it started in France.

The French are notorious for being rude, but trying to revise history before those who lived it are dead?

[Nimisys]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
<STRONG>

she may be a crackpot, but it has been reported that the phillippine government tried to warn the US about pending terrorist attacks, as well as some other countries' intelligence networks.
but the problem was that telling someone about an impending attack without specifics is a little hard to do anything about.
so, she is correct in a small way, but not the way she is implying.

I instead think its more an example of agency lack of proper attention, incompetence or misjudgement rather than an outright plot to cause 9.11 to occur. Even I don't think that, and I hate the bush administration.
</STRONG>

except the philipines thing cam about after tyhey had captured abunch of extreme islamic terrorists there... they had thought that that threat ws ssued from the cell they had just captured

[chadbattles]

People who refuse to even consider other possibilities are worse than people who are unwavering in their devotion to the official story. I am not saying that I buy this, hook line and sinker, just as I dont buy the official story hook, line and sinker.
Lazurus longs says-"the truth of a proposition has nothing to do with it's credibility"
and then there is this
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, quoted in Suzy Platt, Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations (Barnes and Noble, 1993), p. 201.
Anyone heard of the reichstag fire? look it up.
Ever heard of Lt. Mike Vreeland USN? look it up.
There is no room in this world for closed minded people, look where it has gottem Isreal
Just another sheep-Chad

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by Nimisys:
<STRONG>

except the philipines thing cam about after tyhey had captured abunch of extreme islamic terrorists there... they had thought that that threat ws ssued from the cell they had just captured</STRONG>

what-ever. I was using it as an example that they had nonspecific warnings which didn't help, not trying to argue the details of it as a topic unto itself.

[maxelson]

Originally posted by chadbattles:
<STRONG>People who refuse to even consider other possibilities are worse than people who are unwavering in their devotion to the official story. I am not saying that I buy this, hook line and sinker, just as I dont buy the official story hook, line and sinker.
Lazurus longs says-"the truth of a proposition has nothing to do with it's credibility"
and then there is this
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, quoted in Suzy Platt, Respectfully Quoted: A Dictionary of Quotations (Barnes and Noble, 1993), p. 201.
Anyone heard of the reichstag fire? look it up.
Ever heard of Lt. Mike Vreeland USN? look it up.
There is no room in this world for closed minded people, look where it has gottem Isreal
Just another sheep-Chad</STRONG>

Well. That's a little harsh, isn't it? Especially when theres, well, THOUSANDS of witnesses, and all. Not to mention all those DEAD folks... and the trashed buildings and all. I'm all for throwing out questions... hell, I firmly think it is my duty as an American citizen to question my government... regularly and with intensity. But, you know, it goes a little far calling people closed minded because they consider these notions absurd. There's a fairly INSURMOUNTABLE level of physical proof. There is a certain level of absurdity to be overcome and I do not think an accusation of "closed mindedness" is warranted on this particular matter. It is like calling someone closed minded for not believing you if you told them the sun would rise tomorrow, but this time it was coming up in the likeness of Buddy Cianci. Is there a possibility, well, hell, ANYTHING is possible. But I think we can all agree that there's a certain amount of evidence that would lead us to think the notion is more absurd than anything Artaud could come up wioth, even with the help of Oliver Stone.

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: maxelson ]

[l'ignorante]

VAS AU DIABLE, FILS DE PUTE !!!

[TheJoshu]

The Think Tank ought to try and not think so hard, else they might hurt themselves.

[daimoni]

.

[l'ignorante]

VAS AU DIABLE, FILS DE PUTE !!!

[l'ignorante]

Originally posted by ringo:
<STRONG>Bah, should have let the Germans keep 'em.</STRONG>

VA TE FAIRE ENCULER !!

[l'ignorante]

Originally posted by dav:
<STRONG>the french don't exist.</STRONG>

ENCULE DE TA RACE ! TA MERE LA GROSSE PUTAIN DE SALOPE !!

[fulmer]

Babelfish n'aime pas votre fran�ais!

heheh. courtesy of Babelfish. It couldn't decipher your French.

[jholmes]

Use the term "French think tank" in a sentence -

"Some French think tank will be stopped by Maginot Line"


The guy in the office next to me believes that it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon. he doesn't know what it was and can't explain happened but I guess he believes Barbara Olsen and other passengers were dematerilized by the men in the Black Helicopters that circle our cities each night waiting for the signal from the Trilateral Commision to take over the world.

[ringo]

Ce n'est pas un poste.

[Ozmodiar]

We're not supposed to speak of the Trilateral Commission! oh no, i've said too much. &lt;gasp&gt; who's at the door?

[msc1974]

I was living in the UK and moved to New Zealand just after September 11, I never saw any interviews from witnesses on the TV that saw the plan hit the pentagon. Also, lots of you have said what about the people that died in the crash (pentagon), has anyone seen or heard interviews of family or friend of these murdered people? I watched CNN, and BBC world for hours that day and for the days, weeks after and I saw interviews, news clips and pictures of the other crashes and victims of those crashes.
I may be just lucky not to have the evil insight that the US TV viewers have had, but the questions above have to be answered if the Frence TV is anything like the POSSIBLE lack of details UK/NewZealand TV gave us.

On a second note....Frence people suck. The sooner they disappear up there own assholes, the better.

[jholmes]

Barbra Olsen was a passenger on the plane which hit the Pentagon. She was a commentator on CNN and her husband is U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olsen. He was interveiwed extensively in the days after the crash and Mrs. Olsen was eulogized repeatedly on CNN and other American networks. It is a shame that these people's memories are being screwed with by those looking for a little publicity or to make a quick buck.

That said, I have nothing against the French. My brother lives there and I have found the people to be wonderful. But I am somewhat suspicious of any country that can't make decent beer. Every hear of French beer? Makes you wonder doesn't it.

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: jholmes ]

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by msc1974:
<STRONG>I was living in the UK and moved to New Zealand just after September 11, I never saw any interviews from witnesses on the TV that saw the plan hit the pentagon. Also, lots of you have said what about the people that died in the crash (pentagon), has anyone seen or heard interviews of family or friend of these murdered people? I watched CNN, and BBC world for hours that day and for the days, weeks after and I saw interviews, news clips and pictures of the other crashes and victims of those crashes.
I may be just lucky not to have the evil insight that the US TV viewers have had, but the questions above have to be answered if the Frence TV is anything like the POSSIBLE lack of details UK/NewZealand TV gave us.

On a second note....Frence people suck. The sooner they disappear up there own assholes, the better.</STRONG>

There is footage of the plane running in to the Pentagon. I still remember that day... I first started watching CNN after the first tower had been struck, but before the second. It wasn't long after that that news of the Pentagon strike came out. I'm not actually sure whether the second tower was hit before or after the the Pentagon, but I think it was after. It still sends chills down my spine thinking back on the footage shown on that day. There were literally dozens of cameras that caught the second tower, at least one that caught the first, and I recall footage seeing the tail of that airplane flying so unnaturally low, just before it smashed in to the Pentagon. And, yes, the family of those who died in the Pentagon crash were interviewed. If I recall correctly, a woman who worked in the media was on the Pentagon plane. If anyone cares to question either of the tower attacks, then look no further than the fact that one of the founders of Akamai was on one of those planes. Then there is the plane that crashed in to Pennsylvania.

BlackGriffen

[nonhuman]

Originally posted by l'ignorante:
<STRONG>

ENCULE DE TA RACE ! TA MERE LA GROSSE PUTAIN DE SALOPE !!</STRONG>

Ooh, that's not very nice. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[l'ignorante]

Originally posted by fulmer:
<STRONG>Babelfish n'aime pas votre fran�ais!

heheh. courtesy of Babelfish. It couldn't decipher your French.</STRONG>

if it was english I'd be banned
serious guys, I'm not even french...but I really like them..they're underappreciated worldwide...it's 'Gods' country..beautiful, nice people ( if you speak a word or two, but try getting a nice welcome in the USA if you don't speak a word english)...if a western civilised educated person should live anywhere, it's France !! ( who gave you the Liberty statue btw)

[noliv]

ok some info from France... because you really need it

1/ Thierry Meyssan has no credibility at all in France. Lots of people bought his book because it (is supposed to) raise issues about the 9.11 (i didnt read the bok, but it is base on contradictory official declarations... or he says so)
the best reason why he sells so much book is the cover: a photo of the pentagon after the crash: the photo is strange because the size of the hole in the pentagon is small compared to a boeing... who wouldnt want to know more?

2/ Thierry Meyssan doesnt represent french people or governement, so it is just plain stupid to criticize (so violently!) french people beacause of this book. Scaught, xi_hyperon, daimoni, ringo... please think more before you post stupid things in these forums.

I'm sad to read things like "Bah, should have let the Germans keep 'em." here...

[eep!]

i love the french, they are quality people.
i went to paris and i was hanging around waiting for friends and this guy walked up to me.
"hasheesh." he says, i don't know if he's selling or buying
"i'm sorry?"
"hasheesh."
"I don't have any."
"hasheesh."
"no, thanks. but i don't want any."
"hasheesh."
"no thanks" he shrugs and walks away and my friends arrive
"who was that?"
"haven't got a clue"

that night we smuggled bottles of wine and beer into the hotel.

[TNproud2b]

Originally posted by maxelson:
<STRONG>
Well. That's a little harsh, isn't it? Especially when theres, well, THOUSANDS of witnesses, and all. Not to mention all those DEAD folks... and the trashed buildings and all. I'm all for throwing out questions... hell, I firmly think it is my duty as an American citizen to question my government... regularly and with intensity. But, you know, it goes a little far calling people closed minded because they consider these notions absurd. There's a fairly INSURMOUNTABLE level of physical proof. There is a certain level of absurdity to be overcome and I do not think an accusation of "closed mindedness" is warranted on this particular matter. It is like calling someone closed minded for not believing you if you told them the sun would rise tomorrow, but this time it was coming up in the likeness of Buddy Cianci. Is there a possibility, well, hell, ANYTHING is possible. But I think we can all agree that there's a certain amount of evidence that would lead us to think the notion is more absurd than anything Artaud could come up wioth, even with the help of Oliver Stone.

[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: maxelson ]</STRONG>

Well said.

Who the hell hijacked maxelson's username?


[ 04-12-2002: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[daimoni]

.

[Cellery]

Here's some photos taken from a security camera showing the plane hit the building. Stuff like the Roswell conspiracy theories may convince some people, but something like this is just blatantly stupid. Plus a friend of mine lost a relative on the plane, so unless they're hiding somewhere as part of a government plot, then that further compromises their theory. I feel bad for the relatives of people who died, reading this junk and seeing their loss being denied and chalked up to a conspiracy.

[ 04-13-2002: Message edited by: Cellery ]

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Guess this is probably as close as we'll come to seeing actual footage of the plane hitting the Pentagon:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/03/07/gen...res/index.html


It's all pretty interesting though. I've seen several sites showing the wreckage scene and yakking on about "Do you see a plane in these photos?" and "Where are the holes in the building made by the wings?" and other such nonsense.

At first I can see where it's enticing to speculate, but then a little common sense surely must kick in. Since about the first-grade or so I (and I believe most other thinking people) have come to realize that things don't leave 'Wile E. Coyote perfect-shapes-of-themselves' holes in walls and in things they impact. The plane would have hit that wall like a cannon shell-pretty much disintegrated into fragments and fireball on impact- just as most of us witnessed the planes hitting the WTC doing. From reading a few accounts by aircraft experts, a plane hitting a solid structure such as the re-enforced walls of the Pentagon would crumple nose-first, and the wings (both tail and forward)- being weakest and highly flexible would actually break from the fuselage and fly straight forward directly into the impact zone (in sort of the same way as objects in a moving car-including the driver) are propelled forward in an auto crash) all in the space of a matter of seconds.




Find the Airplane in this photo? - Oh wait, it's still there. Too easy!
That copy-cat kid who flew into a Bank of America in Tampa by the way.

But I guess had the plane carried enough fuel and hit with enough speed/force to completely destroy itself as a jet airliner would, someone could come out with a whole web site and conspiracy books about how it was really a suitcase bomb or a missile or something... after all- to paraphrase one of the conspiracy sites: "Where are the wing holes? How could a plane leave such a neat hole in a building?" And this in an extremely light-walled steel and glass structure at that.


Anyway, why doesn't someone write a book about UA Flight 93 that was sh- err..., that is- crashed in a feild in Pennsylvania? Now THERE'S room for some interesting conspiracy theories!

[chadbattles]

Maxelson, are you trying to tell me there were thousands of people that witnessed the pentagon crash? I think you are dreaming.
1. Funny that the crash happened in the one spot on the pentagon that was least populated.
2. I have seen wreckage of 747s that slammed into the ground and there is usually a large section (tail or otherwise) left in the wreckage
3. No one said that the people on that flight were not killed, just that we (I) doubt that this plane actually hit the pentagon.
4. I am not debating the WTC attacks....although I personally believe that the government had ample warning and let it happen...I don't believe "we" are the perps.
5. The news reports first mentioned a truck bomb. Then a small aircraft...not a jetliner....sure there was confusion but even a fire cheif on the scene was wondering where all the peices of the plane ended up.
6. don't tell me that the government is without reproach...we have unknowingly injected radioactive materials into innocent civilians, we have, done so much harm to so many in the name of national security that you would be a fool not to question the legitamacy of the "news" items the goverment is feeding you. It is your duty as an american to question the motivation of our illegitimate elected officials.
We have the most advanced intelligence apparatus on earth, in the history of the world...and there are documented cases of the government being warned of these attacks. You cannot tell me that 100 or even 200 american civilians are not worth the price (in the eyes of Bush) of a strong military/industrial resurgence in this country
making us BILLIONS of dollars and securing our future in natural recources while also legitimizing the presidency, and the WTO position. Like I said.....refusing to consider the most remote possibility of wrongoing on our part makes you unpatriotic and just another sheep. All of you people on this board who are not even able to entertain the thought for a moment that we might be being lied to are just the kind of people that the shadow government (admitted to exist by Bush) are in need of. Without you, there is no case, no believability. I am not saying that you should believe it, just that it should be considered as a possibility. Oh yeah, and once again, look up th reichstag fire.
Chad

[Face Ache]

We could always give France to the Palestinians...

It's not like the French could stop us.

[chadbattles]

Blackgriffen,
If you actually saw footage of the plane hitting the pentagon and as you say " recall footage seeing the tail of that airplane flying so unnaturally low, just before it smashed in to the Pentagon"...you may be the only person on Earth who saw it...there is no film of the plane hitting the pentagon, just security camera stills (also not containing a plane), that came out two months later and dated 1 day after the crash (security camera time stamp on US army site...will give link if requested).
Chad