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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > Is there a WYSIWYG App for programing??

Is there a WYSIWYG App for programing??
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I WAS the One
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Aug 22, 2006, 09:47 PM
 
I mean, something as Apple easy App to design an App? is it out there? or I'm dreaming with the imposible??

I would like to build an App but I don't know much or nothing about programing... help?
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CharlesS
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Aug 22, 2006, 11:33 PM
 
Is there a WYSIWYG App for bilding a House??

I mean, something as Apple easy App to design a House? is it out there? or I'm dreaming with the imposible??

I would like to build a House but I don't know much or nothing about architecture... help?[/color][/quote]I myself am wondering how to fly to Mars without knowing anything about being an astronaut.[quote][color=white]

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- - e r i k - -
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Aug 23, 2006, 01:27 AM
 
If you don't know anything about programming then you can't make an App. Xcode, InterfaceBuilder and even RealBasic can help you along the way.

Heck, small apps can be built with Automator and AppleScript depending on your needs.

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loren s
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Aug 23, 2006, 10:47 AM
 
they don't exsit.. Who knows why.. True you need to know hhow to program.. But past that ,, it is still all code.. No one will make a visual coding tool... it's like a secret club, or a secret language,

Eh it;s something,,, but they don't exsit.. And I sure wish they did
     
CharlesS
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Aug 23, 2006, 01:38 PM
 
I don't see how it would be possible to create any logic that did anything non-trivial without code, myself.

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I WAS the One  (op)
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Aug 23, 2006, 02:05 PM
 
to: - - e r i c k - -

Thanx man, help really apreciated.

to: loren s

yep... many of us need apps than we only need... like me, for example, I need an app that will not be useful for nobody else but me, and it will be great if I can build it my self... that's a bummer.

to: CharlesS

why are you like that with me? if you think my question is a non-sense or stupid one why you bother answering if your final word will be offensive? not everybody here are genius like you, bro. some of us want info, I bet you will need my help someday, right here. and I will be enjoying that day. ojednep<--.
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Stradlater
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Aug 23, 2006, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by I WAS the One
why are you like that with me? if you think my question is a non-sense or stupid one why you bother answering if your final word will be offensive? not everybody here are genius like you, bro. some of us want info, I bet you will need my help someday, right here. and I will be enjoying that day. ojednep<--.
He was harsh, sure, but no need to get all evil laugh vengeance about it.

Also, no need for the profanity.
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I WAS the One  (op)
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Aug 23, 2006, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Stradlater
no need for the profanity.
"Pendejo" means "smart ass" in spanish. it's not profanity.
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CharlesS
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Aug 23, 2006, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by I WAS the One
why are you like that with me? if you think my question is a non-sense or stupid one why you bother answering if your final word will be offensive? not everybody here are genius like you, bro. some of us want info, I bet you will need my help someday, right here. and I will be enjoying that day. ojednep<--.
Okay, you want advice? Here you go - get a book on either C or AppleScript. If you go with AppleScript, you can make simple stuff with AppleScript Studio. If you learn C, you can then go get Aaron Hillegass' book about learning Objective-C and Cocoa and move on to that. If you don't want to write code, then I don't know of any way to make anything more complex than what you can do with Automator.

Even HyperCard back in the day required a little coding to do anything useful.

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Stradlater
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Aug 23, 2006, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by I WAS the One
"Pendejo" means "smart ass" in spanish. it's not profanity.
Depends on where you're from...

Spanish profanity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Smart ass" can be considered "profane," as well.
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ghporter
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Aug 23, 2006, 03:27 PM
 
I live in San Antonio, Texas. If someone was to call me "pendejo," I would be MIGHTILY offended. "Smart ass" is NOT how it translates around here. This is a multinational, family friendly place-It's considered QUITE profane in some places, so I call it profane for our purposes. I WAS the One, consider this your ONE warning on language.

I consider CharlesS last post to be on target. C is a more flexible language, and more powerful than anything like AppleScript, and you can find FREE compilers (and even programming environments) for C.

For purposes of discussion I will bring up (and dispose of) Microsoft's Visual Basic. It claimed to be something like WYSIWYG, but in fact all that is WYSIWYG is the interface design, NOT the code. EVERYTHING needs coding. Everything.

I suggest you find something like Programming for Dummies (seriously, Dummies books are great for picking up this sort of thing) and start reading.

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I WAS the One  (op)
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Aug 23, 2006, 04:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
I live in San Antonio, Texas. If someone was to call me "pendejo," I would be MIGHTILY offended. "Smart ass" is NOT how it translates around here. This is a multinational, family friendly place-It's considered QUITE profane in some places, so I call it profane for our purposes. I WAS the One, consider this your ONE warning on language.

I consider CharlesS last post to be on target. C is a more flexible language, and more powerful than anything like AppleScript, and you can find FREE compilers (and even programming environments) for C.

For purposes of discussion I will bring up (and dispose of) Microsoft's Visual Basic. It claimed to be something like WYSIWYG, but in fact all that is WYSIWYG is the interface design, NOT the code. EVERYTHING needs coding. Everything.

I suggest you find something like Programming for Dummies (seriously, Dummies books are great for picking up this sort of thing) and start reading.
Whoa! Thanx! I didn't knew that programing was in the dummies series as well! I will go to Amazon and buy one right now! thanx. And about the warning stuff. it's unfair if I'm not saying a bad word from where I am, and also if I explain the meaning as well, but... if smart ass it's a profanity than the warning is taken. otherwise, I didn't say anything wrong. I can link you to many times I misunderstood some of your comments and never ask for you guys to put some warning.. I've been a member for almost a long time and I feel somehow accused of something that is culture matter. I apologize but wont accept that warning. also I assure you that it wont happen again.
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ghporter
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Aug 23, 2006, 05:11 PM
 
I think I got that...

In any case, context is everything. If we were discussing bad things to call someone, your statement wouldn't have seemed inappropriate to me. However, in your context, it was pretty strong, and a whole lot of people would have taken the strongest meaning and been upset about it. That's the trouble with typing what you say instead of just saying it face to face; you don't get the feedback that says "huh?" or "how dare you!" so it's hard to adjust your wording appropriately.

And let's all remember that this is just the Internet, not our life works. There's no reason to take offense or give it. I have never understood why people get all worked up because "User X" says something they take as rude, when they aren't 100% scrupulous with their phrasing either...

Anyway, as a computer scientist, I endorse the suggestion that you cannot learn programming just by playing with a GUI tool. You MUST code to learn programming, whatever language you choose. I recommend starting with something like Java and getting Beginning Programming with Java For Dummies. It's much easier to learn programming today because there are so many free programming environments and compilers around. Java is just that much easier because it's platform independent by design.

Enjoy!

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angelmb
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Aug 23, 2006, 05:13 PM
 
I live in Spain, and believe me, I couldn't say what 'pendejo' means… because I have no idea what that means.

Nevertheless and back on topic, a long time ago I bought a nice book about coding, Matt Neuburg's REAL BASIC The Definitive Guide, from O'Reilly. I think it is a good start for anyone with no programing knowledge.
     
Chuckit
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Aug 23, 2006, 06:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by angelmb
I live in Spain, and believe me, I couldn't say what 'pendejo' means… because I have no idea what that means.
I think Central American Spanish (which is what Texans generally speak) is quite a bit different, slang-wise, from Spanish Spanish.
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ghporter
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Aug 23, 2006, 06:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
I think Central American Spanish (which is what Texans generally speak) is quite a bit different, slang-wise, from Spanish Spanish.
Ohhhhh yesssss! VERY different. And since there are fewer Spaniards than Central and South Americans, that variance is HUGE. You can see a difference in as close an area as different parts of Honduras...

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cla
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Aug 23, 2006, 06:58 PM
 
I have a small habit of counting the number of posts until a thread collapses completely. I think this one went to history.

Anyway, I WAS the One, depending on how advanced your application is going to be, there are a number of shortcuts. I'm sure you've heard of Quartz Composer, but you might also want to check out Developing Games on Mac OS X Using Third-Party Game Engines (Torque, Unity, PTK)
     
Chuckit
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Aug 23, 2006, 07:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by cla
I have a small habit of counting the number of posts until a thread collapses completely. I think this one went to history.
You clearly have not read any Ca$h threads.
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JKT
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Aug 23, 2006, 07:36 PM
 
My tuppence - if a WYSIWYG Apple-ease-of-use-style programming app was possible, don't you think Apple would have released it by now?
     
I WAS the One  (op)
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Aug 23, 2006, 08:34 PM
 
Maybe it will be. an Apple Easy App for making small Apps! it will be cool though! and by the way, I'm from Puerto Rico, not a New York Rican, I am a Puerto Rican. Two Different kind of Puerto Rico's Race. and from the island, that word is common word not a bad word. I mean, If you saw two little kids playing poker you commonly say: what are this two pendejos think they are? like "smart asses" or "clowns" or "rascals" you know what I mean? any how... the app I liked to have is something like Comic Life but not for playing, something Pro for people like us (cartoonists) I'm tired of making the same tasks on and on to get a comic-strip done, or a comic. if I found something like that but for pros I will be buying it right now. but I don't think out there is many people like me. so I think I gotta make it my self! I just want to store hundreds of characters with differents expressions and drag and drop them on the comic-strip sheet and then add dialogues ballons like Comic life do, and not making them everytime as I do. get my point.... something like that would be amazing!
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Chuckit
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Aug 23, 2006, 08:51 PM
 
"Making an app" is just too broad a concept to be done in a simple way. You can make a language as logical and straightforward as you please, but to be capable of making more than toys or only a certain kind of app, the tool will have some kind of learning curve. Languages like Python and Ruby are really not hard to learn (I bet you could if you wanted to try), but ultimately you can't make it stupid simple without taking away the ability to do anything useful.
( Last edited by Chuckit; Aug 23, 2006 at 09:04 PM. )
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TETENAL
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Aug 23, 2006, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by I WAS the One
Maybe it will be. an Apple Easy App for making small Apps!
It exists and it's called AppleScript Studio.

Apple - Software - AppleScript - AppleScript Studio

Or, if you prefer it more visual, there is Automator:

Apple - Mac OS X - Automator

It's not very flexible right now, but from the screenshots I have seen of the Leopard version, it seems like it will be improved much in the next OS version.
     
Chuckit
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Aug 23, 2006, 09:43 PM
 
AppleScript Studio is not especially easy, in my opinion. I'd rather just use Objective-C.
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TimmyDee51
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Aug 24, 2006, 02:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
You clearly have not read any Ca$h threads.
Ahhh, Ca$h threads. . . That takes me back.

Nothing like listening to him rant on and on about how his Neon would kick the crap out of someone else's car, or how his modded iMac could get xx fps in Unreal Tournament.
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DaFrigN
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:15 AM
 
Someone mentioned "HyperCard back in the day required a little coding to do anything useful."
That depend on your definition of useful. I mean simple card-to-card animations, or Multimedia presentations could be done with very little knowledge of the HyperTalk scripting lanquage (which AppleScript was based on). Also, there were many stacks on the net that you could copy and paste chunks of code from, and XCMDs & XFCNs (precompile Commands & Functions) which would add functionality by pasting them in with ResEdit. I still use some of my simple HC stacks on a daily basis.

Anyway, unfortunately Apple let HyperCard die a slow death... But while HC and even SuperCard were festering, alternatives like Revolution, MetaCard, OpenCard where being developed. Now they seem to all have merged into RunTime Revolution. It is the closest thing to HyperCard 3.0 (or 4.0) I have seen since the original. But RunRev can compile standalone apps for MacOS9,MacOSX,Win32, various Unix based oses. It may have a bit more learning curve to get started then HC did, but it still ROCKS! If you've done any AppleScript or HC HyperTalk (and maybe Director Lingo or Flash's ActionScript) scripting, then you will pickup on the language quickly. Also, there are more Multimedia oriented things like Shockwave Flash out there too.
     
I WAS the One  (op)
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Aug 24, 2006, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
It exists and it's called AppleScript Studio.

Apple - Software - AppleScript - AppleScript Studio

Or, if you prefer it more visual, there is Automator:

Apple - Mac OS X - Automator

It's not very flexible right now, but from the screenshots I have seen of the Leopard version, it seems like it will be improved much in the next OS version.
I can't do nothing with Apple script. and I tried to crop all my pics at the same size with Automator an it is imposible. It's no way you can do that simple task with it... so
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besson3c
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Aug 24, 2006, 10:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by I WAS the One
I can't do nothing with Apple script. and I tried to crop all my pics at the same size with Automator an it is imposible. It's no way you can do that simple task with it... so


Have you looked at Photoshop Actions?

How would a WYSIWYG program for programming work, when programming is such an open ended venture with limitless possibilities? WYSIWYG is for helping define controlled variables, if that makes any sense.
     
TETENAL
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Aug 24, 2006, 11:00 AM
 
There is a Preview action in Automator that allows you to crop images.
     
dimmer
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Aug 24, 2006, 04:17 PM
 
Automator is probably as close as it gets, although SmallTalk was always designed as a visual programming language. Interesting that all the Microsoft prorgamming apps have "Visual" in the name, although in those cases I think it just means "It's not run from a CLI! W00t!"
     
Chuckit
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:43 PM
 
Like I said, there are programming languages that I think are very natural and user-friendly, like Smalltalk (not really used anymore, but eh), Python and Ruby, but you still have to understand some programming even to use a relatively straightforward language like that.
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Aug 24, 2006, 05:59 PM
 
I can't do nothing with Apple script.
Well, what are you complaining about then?
     
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Aug 25, 2006, 02:50 AM
 
They just announced the Universal Binary version.. just Google it..
     
loren s
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Aug 25, 2006, 08:42 PM
 
two bits for ruby
Why’s (Poignant) Guide to Ruby Very neat and weird but long

And two: Cocoa.. Python whatever... is it all memeory ? In all programming languages you read small tutorials that lead no where, and they are so full of filler to make a book larger and heavier.
Is their no way to write one that just shows what you will use to get anywhere ?

Another thought to it all is , Common Medium and Rare. Whats really their to learn? I was told coding is not an art project it's just logic. So that thought leads to a simple "their is only one real way "

Eh,, I still can't code after two years of reading lots of books, pdfs, online stuff and tutorials and crap like that. I can get through the tutorials just fine, and I can read whats going on in the books, but after that when I try and do my own thing i'm still lost... And tired of it all now..

It's not visual at all... Ya screw up ONE D@M< thing and it does not work... Period... Theres no open options to really just experiment by mashing things together and seeing what happens;...

I wish I knew what this hyper card thing was. But Apple is very bad about keeping apps updated....
     
TETENAL
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by loren s
I wish I knew what this hyper card thing was.
You could give SuperCard a try.

www.supercard.us
     
loren s
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
You could give SuperCard a try.

www.supercard.us

Alright I shall.. hope it works on intel>

Now,, is it cards? I dont see any screen shots of the website, nor do I see a gallery of supercard made apps.

I tried realbasic,,, it's like why bother,, I can used cocoa just as badly and dont have to learn yet another language....

As for me I don't want a click and drag to create app... All developers don't get it when an designer comes into teh programmers fray. All I want in programming is a tool that shows charts.. The charts show the nodes of objects and when one sends a signal message to the other I want to see that. So as I develop it and debug it I can see where something went wrong. The text console read outs is so cryptic it's unbearable after the twenthith recompile...

Alot of what goes into learning anything is retention and recall.. You have to be able to dig crap out of your head just to get to that tiny bit of syntax you forgot ,, even it's it one stupid ( mark you STILL have to remeber where that ( goes.... as an example....
     
loren s
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Aug 25, 2006, 09:29 PM
 
Look at all of the hopefuls here
My Dream App / Critique My Dream App
I'm apart of them... I stooped so low as to try and get my CSS tweak tool built there...

It's like thousands there... Thats thousands that will still not see their apps built..
It should not have to be like this....
     
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Aug 26, 2006, 08:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by I WAS the One
I can't do nothing with Apple script. and I tried to crop all my pics at the same size with Automator an it is imposible. It's no way you can do that simple task with it... so

You can make a Photoshop dropplet fot that.
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I WAS the One  (op)
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Aug 27, 2006, 10:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sarc
You can make a Photoshop dropplet fot that.
like drop a folder and all those pics get croped?? show me how!
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Aug 28, 2006, 02:19 AM
 
Programming is not sooo bad. I took a programming class my sophomore year in high school. I coded an older version of realbasic. It was completely text-based. After that, we started in C. I am too rusty when it comes to that stuff. I want to pick up a language that is modern and useful. I can still code TI-BASIC fairly well. That saved me alot of writing (quadratic equations are icky, and thank goodness I don't have to worry about that anymore).

Anyway, the point is that if your remember your algebra then you can pick up a programming language from reading a book. I think that many forms of BASIC are good places to start.
     
   
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