[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by ort888 

reports are coming in from everywhere that PS3s are being found sitting on store shelves for days.

I'd believe that, but we'd be seeing links to that fact everywhere with the haters in these threads.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by ort888 

CNBC just ran a story on the news with (supposedly) up to date holiday sales numbers.

Wii = 1.8 Million
PS3 = 750 Thousand
360 = 2 Million

The fact that the Wii has sold over twice as many units as the PS3, and is still impossible to find is crazy. Especially since reports are coming in from everywhere that PS3s are being found sitting on store shelves for days.

Is Sony really in trouble? I really didn't expect it to be this bad for them. I'm actually a little shocked.

Do you have a link? Were these US sales? Considering that Sony's projections for North America were for 5 to 8 hundred thousand units shipped to retailers before the end of 2006, I'd say 750,000 is very good. You can't sell more units than you manufacture after all.

BTW I've seen about 10 times as many Wiis sitting on store shelves as PS3s, but that means nothing. (1 20GB PS3 vs 10 or so Wiis)

[Mrjinglesusa]

I said it once before and I'll say it again: PS3s are readily available online if you are willing to buy a bundle.

PS3 Tracker, PlayStation 3 Locator: Buy PS3 online check stock, price

Walmart and Toys 'R Us have had them in stock for TWO DAYS. Amazon had some 60 GB consoles available today as did Best Buy online. When I checked trackers looking for the 360 when it was released and up until Feb/Mar of '06, the online bundles lasted maybe 5-10 minutes. It just goes to further demonstrate that the price point of the PS3 is too high. Sony tried to pack too much into a gaming machine and it is going to hurt them in the end. They would have been better served to make the Blu-Ray and Wi-Fi optional (like with the 360). Could have dropped the price in line with the 360 and allowed people the OPTION of adding a Blu-Ray player or Wi-Fi if they WANTED/NEEDED it.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

I said it once before and I'll say it again: PS3s are readily available online if you are willing to buy a bundle.

PS3 Tracker, PlayStation 3 Locator: Buy PS3 online check stock, price

Walmart and Toys 'R Us have had them in stock for TWO DAYS. Amazon had some 60 GB consoles available today as did Best Buy online. When I checked trackers looking for the 360 when it was released and up until Feb/Mar of '06, the online bundles lasted maybe 5-10 minutes. It just goes to further demonstrate that the price point of the PS3 is too high. Sony tried to pack too much into a gaming machine and it is going to hurt them in the end. They would have been better served to make the Blu-Ray and Wi-Fi optional (like with the 360). Could have dropped the price in line with the 360 and allowed people the OPTION of adding a Blu-Ray player or Wi-Fi if they WANTED/NEEDED it.

The problem is then that you can't use blu-ray for games without alienating a certain amount of your customer base.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Gossamer 

The problem is then that you can't use blu-ray for games without alienating a certain amount of your customer base.

You don't really need Blu-Ray for games anyway. If splitting the game up onto different disks is the hardest part of your development process, your game probably blows anyway.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

You don't really need Blu-Ray for games anyway. If splitting the game up onto different disks is the hardest part of your development process, your game probably blows anyway.

Sure right now you don't, you can't say what they will/won't need down the road.

[icruise]

Both the Wii and the PS3 are easier to find than the Xbox 360 was, but I think that's due to a few different factors. First, Sony and Nintendo are sending steady (if small) shipments to stores, so it seems like they are cropping up fairly often, while the 360 was basically impossible to find for a while at the end of last year. (And of course Nintendo's production numbers are higher than the 360s were as well). Also, the incredible hype about how the PS3 was going to be impossible to find ironically caused a lot of people to not even try to find one. And yes, the price, combined with the lack of a true killer app for the PS3 is also a factor.

I don't know about the online bundles available now, but a couple of weeks ago when I was trying to find a PS3, I actively monitored all of the available bundles and they sold out within minutes or hours. But now that scalpers are returning some PS3s to stores and more shipments are coming in, it's likely that people don't see the need to pay through the nose for a bunch of games nobody wants.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Both the Wii and the PS3 are easier to find than the Xbox 360 was, but I think that's due to a few different factors.

Noo they aren't.

The Xbox 360 allowed pre-orders MONTHS in advance when many stores didn't take ANY PS3 pre-orders because they knew they weren't getting many.

I placed an order for a 360 launch day to replace the defective one I got and in 2 weeks another large shipment was in. It was a bit sketchy but they supply was way better than the PS3.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Is Sony really in trouble? I really didn't expect it to be this bad for them. I'm actually a little shocked.

You're shocked because you're getting caught up in the "Nobody wants a PS3" nonsense.

Last week the PS3 sales went UP 60% in Japan showing that it isn't people just getting them to put on eBay.

What were the PS2 sales?

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Noo they aren't.

The Xbox 360 allowed pre-orders MONTHS in advance when many stores didn't take ANY PS3 pre-orders because they knew they weren't getting many.

Wouldn't that sort of prove my point? Stores took too many preorders for the Xbox 360 and weren't able to fulfill them, which meant that stock that would have gone on store shelves went to fulfill preorders. Thus they weren't available in stores to the same degree as the PS3 and Wii (both of which are still quite hard to find, mind you).

I'm talking about the "go into a store and just find one sitting there" kind of availability, not overall shipment numbers or the like.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

I said it once before and I'll say it again: PS3s are readily available online if you are willing to buy a bundle.

PS3 Tracker, PlayStation 3 Locator: Buy PS3 online check stock, price

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[Kerrigan]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

What were the PS2 sales?

Joystiq says that the PS2 will be outselling the next gen consoles through 07. Talk about a successful line...

PS2 to outsell newer consoles through next year? - Joystiq

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by starman 

Oh, I see. So this whole thing is irrelevant if someone else does it in the future. Got it.

No, I never said that, starman. See "lesser evil" again and re-read please.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Really, I got it. Though I don't really think you got ME.

Oh, I got you. You justify your buying choices by making yourself believe that every company is the same and what you do doesn't really matter, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I disagree, and I am good with that. I have been through your whole way of thinking in my own life and I found it to be just as egotistical and self-serving as those who go the other way…only less fun.

Right... so because either A.) You threw your consumer conscious out the window or B.) You never really had one in the first place, but rather some childish insignificant rivalry which you mistook for it, you've made yourself believe that you "already went through that" and that that this way of thinking is just as bad as yours.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Refusing, to your own detriment, to support organizations that do evil things is egotistical and self-serving?

Originally Posted by smacintush 

People generally do such things for their own personal gratification…serving their ego. They often give themselves away by…for example…writing long winded posts detailing why and how they are so enlightened.

IMO, you need to reconsider your definition of "evil". MS may be unfair or even criminal in their business practices, but they are hardly "evil". Were they to truly be "evil", then yeah, I can see refusing to support them.

You're mistaken to think that I'd avoid Microsoft products merely to "serve my ego". In fact, I am at a loss as to how it would even do so. It seems to me that it is you who wish to justify yourself by stating "you're doing as bad as I am" which, even if true, would do nothing to justify your actions.

Personally, I don't think I've used the term "evil" to refer to MS, and when I do, I do so loosely. But just how bad does a company have to be before it's bad enough to justify not supporting it, or does it even matter to you? I think being an OS and Office suite monopoly very much interested in DRM and using that leverage to get into even more markets (PDA, gaming, TV) is pretty bad, and I don't want to be a part of it.

Look, let me step back and say... I'm not trying to attack you personally, but rather the argument you have put forth, which is fundamentally flawed and even a little dishonest, in my opinion. It's dishonest with yourself, mind you. It's the type of dishonest where you tell yourself-- "this trash I throw on the ground, it's okay, they'll clean it anyway, plus look there's already some here, everybody does it.", so you rationalize it so you don't feel bad, but deep down, you know it's not the right thing to do.

I don't think anyone who buys an XBox is an evil or bad person, but at the very least, I think it's ill-considered and irresponsible for a knowledgeable consumer. However, please don't try to rationalize your actions and pass on the guilt to those of us who actually care.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

Oh, I got you. You justify your buying choices by making yourself believe that every company is the same and what you do doesn't really matter, so you might as well enjoy yourself.

Nope. You missed it.

Right... so because either A.) You threw your consumer conscious out the window or B.) You never really had one in the first place, but rather some childish insignificant rivalry which you mistook for it, you've made yourself believe that you "already went through that" and that that this way of thinking is just as bad as yours.

Missed again…and what exactly is a "consumer conscious"? Is that someone who shops while they are awake?

You're mistaken to think that I'd avoid Microsoft products merely to "serve my ego". In fact, I am at a loss as to how it would even do so.

You don't see how being a pretentious ideologue can serve your ego?

It seems to me that it is you who wish to justify yourself by stating "you're doing as bad as I am" which, even if true, would do nothing to justify your actions.

Seriously, WHY would I have to "justify" my VIDEO GAME CONSOLE PURCHASES to myself or anyone else? I have no guilt and to cultivate guilt would be pretentious, self-serving nonsense.

Personally, I don't think I've used the term "evil" to refer to MS, and when I do, I do so loosely.

That wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the poster I was replying to.

Look, let me step back and say... I'm not trying to attack you personally, but rather the argument you have put forth, which is fundamentally flawed and even a little dishonest, in my opinion. It's dishonest with yourself, mind you. It's the type of dishonest where you tell yourself-- "this trash I throw on the ground, it's okay, they'll clean it anyway, plus look there's already some here, everybody does it.", so you rationalize it so you don't feel bad, but deep down, you know it's not the right thing to do.

The argument I have put forth is one that is more personal and is the result of more serious introspection than you give me credit for. Therefore to attack my argument IS to attack me personally to a degree. To try and apply these simplistic little analogies to me is unfair and is not only evidence that you don't understand my point, but that you also don't care to try. Which is fine with me…really…just don't pretend that you do.

I don't think anyone who buys an XBox is an evil or bad person, but at the very least, I think it's ill-considered and irresponsible for a knowledgeable consumer. However, please don't try to rationalize your actions and pass on the guilt to those of us who actually care.

So I assume you do extensive research into EVERY SINGLE item you buy so that you know who to buy from? Or do you just go by the REALLY bad ones that make the headlines?

I quote I've used a lot here is "Goodie-goodies are the thieves of virtue." That certainly seems to apply to you based upon your posts.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

The argument I have put forth is one that is more personal and is the result of more serious introspection than you give me credit for. Therefore to attack my argument IS to attack me personally to a degree. To try and apply these simplistic little analogies to me is unfair and is not only evidence that you don't understand my point, but that you also don't care to try. Which is fine with me…really…just don't pretend that you do.

If I've misunderstood you then please do explain yourself. We're all intelligent folk over here. On the other hand, if one can't even disagree with you for fear of insulting you, then perhaps it is best not to even try. I'll leave it up to you.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

So I assume you do extensive research into EVERY SINGLE item you buy so that you know who to buy from? Or do you just go by the REALLY bad ones that make the headlines?

You assume incorrectly. Like most people, I don't have the time or desire to look into every company I buy from. I wouldn't expect this from anybody. However, if I do learn something about any particular company that might make me think twice about buying from them, I'll consider the facts and make my choice accordingly.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I quote I've used a lot here is "Goodie-goodies are the thieves of virtue." That certainly seems to apply to you based upon your posts.

You're way off, and it's sad that you're arguing this on the side of Microsoft.

[starman]

^^ Did I write those?

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by starman 

^^ Did I write those?

Sorry, must have gotten mixed up during editing. Fixed.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

If I've misunderstood you then please do explain yourself. We're all intelligent folk over here.

You are free to look down your nose at me for not being enlightened or moral enough to see it your way. I don't have any desire to try and alter your opinion of me therefore to explain myself further would be pointless IMO.

On the other hand, if one can't even disagree with you for fear of insulting you, then perhaps it is best not to even try. I'll leave it up to you.

Just because I may feel that someone is attacking me personally doesn't mean that I take it personally. That is to say, I don't care. I was merely trying to point out that you were indeed being personal. How can you say to someone: "You are irresponsible and selfish but hey…nothing personal…" ?

You assume incorrectly. Like most people, I don't have the time or desire to look into every company I buy from. I wouldn't expect this from anybody. However, if I do learn something about any particular company that might make me think twice about buying from them, I'll consider the facts and make my choice accordingly.

It seems a bit hypocritical to criticize others when you don't even know the kinds of companies you are buying from. It appears that YOU are the one with the kind of silly grudge against MS that you accused me of having.

You're way off, and it's sad that you're arguing this on the side of Microsoft.

So now I'm arguing on the side of MS…I guess if I'm not with you I'm with the enemy huh?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by starman 

^^ Did I write those?

No I'm the only one stupid enough to continue arguing with him.

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

No I'm the only one stupid enough to continue arguing with him.

LOL

[imitchellg5]

Jeeze I thought games were just for fun!

[Mrjinglesusa]

OK. I'm eating crow now. I take back the good things I said about the 360. Just got random freezing in games and movies. Now, the dreaded 3 Red-Rings of Death. It's off to MS for "repair". Good thing they extended the warranty. I bought mine 1/11/2006. lol

Off to Best Buy tomorrow to stand in line 1 hour prior to opening to try and get a PS3. Mostly for Blu-Ray, but I will pick up Call of Duty 3 and maybe Resistance.

Damn MS - and here I was trying to stick up for you...

[icruise]

Ouch...

[Eug Wanker]

Xbox 360 HD DVD drive on sale for $99 at GamePlay in LA

They are really selling it for that price, although you might have a hard time finding it as most seem to be sold out now.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

You are free to look down your nose at me for not being enlightened or moral enough to see it your way. I don't have any desire to try and alter your opinion of me therefore to explain myself further would be pointless IMO.

I am not "looking down my nose" at you. I'm just pointing out something I believe to be true and detailing why it is so. You don't want to "explain" any further.. got'cha.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Just because I may feel that someone is attacking me personally doesn't mean that I take it personally. That is to say, I don't care. I was merely trying to point out that you were indeed being personal. How can you say to someone: "You are irresponsible and selfish but hey…nothing personal…" ?

Well, let me see... if I like littering all over the place and someone rightfully tells me that what I am doing is irresponsible and selfish, do I really have a right to get mad? Because I litter does not mean that I am a bad, evil person-- I may do more good that those who do not litter-- but that doesn't make my littering right.

Notice the comparison I've raised. Again, you might be the coolest guy in the world-- I don't hate you because you buy MS products, but I'll stand my ground on it being irresponsible and why.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

It seems a bit hypocritical to criticize others when you don't even know the kinds of companies you are buying from. It appears that YOU are the one with the kind of silly grudge against MS that you accused me of having.

No, it's not hypocritical. I don't blame someone who has no idea of the crimes Microsoft is guilty of for buying Microsoft products. But once you are aware, it does become your responsibility.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

So now I'm arguing on the side of MS…I guess if I'm not with you I'm with the enemy huh?

No, I just find it sadly ironic that a longtime Mac user, who knows what Microsoft has done and continues to do, would argue in favor of Microsoft.

You've said that your stance on the matter is the result of personal, serious introspection on your part. I think I've pretty much explained my position, which you may or may not agree with. However, you seem to imply that your argument has not been understood or fully explained. Again, I implore you to do so. Or is there no more substance to your argument?

Originally Posted by smacintush 

No I'm the only one stupid enough to continue arguing with him.

Especially when you can't even explain your position properly.

[Kenneth]

I found one good thing about the Xbox 360 vs. the PS3.. the controller! Microsoft really knows how to make peripherals.

[Dark Helmet]

Have you PS3 owners tried Motostorm Demo? It is like Excite Truck without the suck.

This game is a blast because the graphics and style are so great... yes graphics can be fun!

Latest MotorStorm gameplay continues to impress - PS3 Fanboy

When this game comes out it is definitely going to move hardware.

[Jawbone54]

I was completely unimpressed by Motorstorm. The graphics are great, but I wasn't in love with the gameplay, honestly.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Have you PS3 owners tried Motostorm Demo? It is like Excite Truck without the suck.

This game is a blast because the graphics and style are so great... yes graphics can be fun!

Latest MotorStorm gameplay continues to impress - PS3 Fanboy

When this game comes out it is definitely going to move hardware.

I downloaded it last night. I had a blast as well, and have to agree.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

I downloaded it last night. I had a blast as well, and have to agree.

I downloaded the demo last night as well. However, I sticked with the default (motion sensor off). The game was great, especially while I crashed my ATV I could pause it and rotate the camera angle. It didn't look bad on my 480i SDTV.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Well, I have a PS3 now!

Got up and was at Best Buy at 7:30 am. There was a guy in line who was there since 9:30 pm last night. I was about 8th in line. By 9:00 am (1 hour prior to opening) there were about 25-30 people in line. They passed out tickets at 9:00 am that guaranteed you a 60 GB PS3 when they opened at 10:00 am. It looks like they had about 40 in stock because everyone in line got one and the BB guy had tickets left.

Got coffee, read the paper and went back at 10:00. Picked up Resistance and NFS:Carbon. Got am HDMI cable too. Downloaded Gran Turismo and am currently downloading F1 Championship.

So far, I'm impressed. The PS3 is MUCH quiter than the XBox 360. The menus system takes some getting used to but it's pretty intuitive. Set-up was a piece of cake. With the two games I bought, I don't notice much difference in graphics between the 360 and PS3. My PS3 didn't come with Talledega Nights so I haven't tried a Blu-Ray DVD yet.

Overall, I like the PS3. It is VERY slick looking and runs whisper quiet. The rechargeable wireless controllers are nice. I wish MS would have made rechargeable controllers standard instead of forcing you to buy a battery pack. Media card connectivity is defenitely going to useful.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Have you PS3 owners tried Motostorm Demo? It is like Excite Truck without the suck.

This game is a blast because the graphics and style are so great... yes graphics can be fun!

I didn't think it or Excite Truck was anything all that special.

Excite Truck - cool control scheme + Xbox-quality graphics = Motorstorm

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Well, I have a PS3 now!

Got up and was at Best Buy at 7:30 am. There was a guy in line who was there since 9:30 pm last night. I was about 8th in line. By 9:00 am (1 hour prior to opening) there were about 25-30 people in line. They passed out tickets at 9:00 am that guaranteed you a 60 GB PS3 when they opened at 10:00 am. It looks like they had about 40 in stock because everyone in line got one and the BB guy had tickets left.

Got coffee, read the paper and went back at 10:00. Picked up Resistance and NFS:Carbon. Got am HDMI cable too. Downloaded Gran Turismo and am currently downloading F1 Championship.

So far, I'm impressed. The PS3 is MUCH quiter than the XBox 360. The menus system takes some getting used to but it's pretty intuitive. Set-up was a piece of cake. With the two games I bought, I don't notice much difference in graphics between the 360 and PS3. My PS3 didn't come with Talledega Nights so I haven't tried a Blu-Ray DVD yet.

Overall, I like the PS3. It is VERY slick looking and runs whisper quiet. The rechargeable wireless controllers are nice. I wish MS would have made rechargeable controllers standard instead of forcing you to buy a battery pack. Media card connectivity is defenitely going to useful.

Sweet! I didn't get the Talledga Nights Blu-Ray tryout movie too. What I heard the bundled copy is loaded on the BR 25GB media other than the 50GB at retail. Anyway, last night I tried the collateral regular DVD on both PS3 and Xbox 360. The PS3 provide a darker picture than the Xbox 360, but offer a better sound and options right out of the box.

Anyway, I'm glad there is another happy PS3 owner out there. However, the battery built-in controller is debatable, since you can easily take out the rechargeable battery from the Xbox 360 controller if it turned bad. I do love the look of the PS3 and much quieter operation. This is what I'm missing on the Xbox 360.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I didn't think it or Excite Truck was anything all that special.

Excite Truck - cool control scheme + Xbox-quality graphics = Motorstorm

I haven't played Excite Truck, but you can control Motorstorm by tilting the controller in pretty much the same way. And I hope you don't mean original Xbox-quality graphics. Motorstorm has some amazing visuals, particularly in first-person mode. I did hear that the demo that you can play in stores isn't as good as the actual product or even the downloadable demo. Not sure if there's any truth to that, but I must admit I was much more impressed with the game when I played it at home. Of course, my large TV may have something to do with that.

I think that both Excite Truck and Motorstorm probably have problems with long-term appeal, since they seem to be kind of limited in the game modes, etc.

By the way, Talldega Nights isn't really a very good "show off" disc for Blu-ray (and it's not that great a movie in my opinion) so you're really not losing much. Take advantage of the rebate coupons that come with your PS3 and get a couple of decent movies cheaply.

[exca1ibur]

Yeah, I'm glad I didn't get Talledega Nights with my PS3. I fell alseep on it trying to watch it on the plane from Hawaii last month. I like Will Farrell, but the movie was just too stupid to me.

I tried out the motion control part of Motorstorm. Takes a little while to get used to. I did make some cool explosions running into stuff though.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Well, I have a PS3 now!


Overall, I like the PS3. It is VERY slick looking and runs whisper quiet. The rechargeable wireless controllers are nice. I wish MS would have made rechargeable controllers standard instead of forcing you to buy a battery pack. Media card connectivity is defenitely going to useful.

I'm really impressed how light the PS3 controller is next to the Xbox and even the Wii. I can't be just because of the missing rumble but more because of the battery they must be using.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I'm really impressed how light the PS3 controller is next to the Xbox and even the Wii. I can't be just because of the missing rumble but more because of the battery they must be using.

I agree. The PS3 controller is realy light compared to the 360 controller. It will be interesting to see how long the internal battery is good for.

I've played a few demos (Gran Turismo, MotoStorm, and F1 Championship). The grpahics in Gran Turismo are looking realy good but I'm really looking forward to F1 Championship and Heavenly Sword. Resistance:FoM will have to do until those come out.

Switched my NetFlix over to Blu-Ray so I should get to try the Blu-Ray capabilities soon. The Bluetooth remote for the PS3 should be hitting stores soon too ($24.99).

Overall, I'm very happy with the purchase. The PS3 makes a really nice additional to my entertainment center.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

I agree. The PS3 controller is realy light compared to the 360 controller. It will be interesting to see how long the internal battery is good for.

You mean hours till recharge or until the whole battery no longer holds a charge and needs replacing?

[ink]

Someone brought a Wii, 4 remotes and a projector to the new year's party I went to last night.

Others brought alcohol.

Much fun ensued. I'm very impressed with Wii sports. People were waiting in line to play it.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

You mean hours till recharge or until the whole battery no longer holds a charge and needs replacing?

The latter.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by ink 

Someone brought a Wii, 4 remotes and a projector to the new year's party I went to last night.

Others brought alcohol.

Much fun ensued. I'm very impressed with Wii sports. People were waiting in line to play it.

The general consensus seems to be that average people love it. Hardcore gamers who aren't of the Nintendo ilk are constantly slamming it, but the average person is mesmerized by the thing. Nintendo has generated a TON of buzz, if nothing else.

To be honest, I'm missing my Wii a bit, even if it doesn't have all the sports games I wish it did.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

The general consensus seems to be that average people love it. Hardcore gamers who aren't of the Nintendo ilk are constantly slamming it, but the average person is mesmerized by the thing. Nintendo has generated a TON of buzz, if nothing else.

To be honest, I'm missing my Wii a bit, even if it doesn't have all the sports games I wish it did.

the hardcore gamers that slam it probably haven't played it enough to pass right judgment.. i played wii sports for the first time 2 nights after finishing Gears of War on insane, and had just as much fun, but a completely different 'kind' of fun.. it certainly doesn't present a hardcore challenge, but who cares.. as a multiplayer party game it rocks - bowling's my personal favourite, hands down!!

if i had my way i'd have a wii for when i have friends around, and keep my 360 for everything else except the odd gem like zelda.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Gamoe 

No, I just find it sadly ironic that a longtime Mac user, who knows what Microsoft has done and continues to do, would argue in favor of Microsoft.

Yep. Just as I thought.

You've said that your stance on the matter is the result of personal, serious introspection on your part. I think I've pretty much explained my position, which you may or may not agree with. However, you seem to imply that your argument has not been understood or fully explained. Again, I implore you to do so. Or is there no more substance to your argument?

Especially when you can't even explain your position properly.

There have been at least 3 others who have replied to my initial post on this matter. Funny that none of them needed further explanation.

Really, it seems as if you are just trying to "win" an argument here. I have made my position as clear as I need to. You are just fishing for more points to try to tear apart.

I have been on this forum for 5 years, that's plenty of time for you or anyone judge whether my opinions and beliefs are genuine and well thought out.

You don't buy it? I don't care.

[MusicManifesto]

Wii.

Roommate got one and we've all had a blast playing wii sports, zelda, and trauma center.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

There have been at least 3 others who have replied to my initial post on this matter. Funny that none of them needed further explanation.

Really, it seems as if you are just trying to "win" an argument here. I have made my position as clear as I need to. You are just fishing for more points to try to tear apart.

I have been on this forum for 5 years, that's plenty of time for you or anyone judge whether my opinions and beliefs are genuine and well thought out.

You don't buy it? I don't care.

Nice people skills there, smacintush.

I'm not trying to "win" anything. If you're not ready to logically argue your point and hide behind vague allegations of personal introspection, then don't push it and call others' philosophies selfish or egotistical when (or perhaps specifically because) your own is so striking in its self-serving nature.

You can keep what you sadly believe to be a superior ethically-lacking attitude towards buying, and I'll keep my own philosophy. And so, I think it would be best to leave it at that, as it's just getting nasty, and as you said, you don't care.

[icruise]

Let's try and keep the discussion on track. Microsoft's behavior as a company is only tangentially related to the subject at hand.

I'll have to be honest here and say that I'm just not feeling this whole "Wii fever." Part of it is that I was expecting more from the graphics, and part of it is that I was expecting more from the controller.

Yeah, graphics don't matter. I agree with that in theory. It's certainly true that you don't need amazing graphics to have a great game. But they DO matter with some types of games. I don't care that much about the graphics in Wii Sports (although I wish it didn't have so many jaggies), but with something like Red Steel or Call of Duty 3, the graphics are a huge part of the game. I do think that graphics will improve (just as they will with the PS3), but that doesn't really help right now.

And the controller is simultaneously great and kind of frustrating. It does open up a lot of new gameplay opportunities, and there are a lot of cools things done with it. But in a lot of games the motion sensing is really just being used as a different kind of button. Take Zelda. You make a "sword slashing" motion with your hand and Link uses his sword on screen. But he doesn't actually mimic your motion. Does that really get you into the game more than pressing a button? I'm not so sure. Same with something like Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Making a motion for a particular super power probably seems cool at first, but do it a few dozen times and you'll be praying for a simple button. And for all the talk about how great it would be in first-person shooters, in reality it kind of sucks.

Is it the (non-online) multiplayer that people like so much about the Wii? I've played a few games with other people, and it certainly does improve the experience. As a one-player machine, I haven't been that impressed with the non-Zelda games that I've tried, and Zelda itself isn't even an exclusive. Actually, the thing I like the best is the Virtual console and Gamecube compatibility right now.

I'm not saying that the PS3 is better (both systems have relatively lackluster launch libraries), but I don't see why the PS3 is getting dumped on so much and the Wii is so "hot." The Xbox 360 blows them both out of the water when it comes to good games (as should be expected, given its head start). I guess it mostly boils down to price, and the fact that Nintendo managed to attract a lot of non-gamers. I don't know how well that will translate into long-term success, but then again they have done well using a similar strategy with the DS.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Let's try and keep the discussion on track. Microsoft's behavior as a company is only tangentially related to the subject at hand.

I'll have to be honest here and say that I'm just not feeling this whole "Wii fever." Part of it is that I was expecting more from the graphics, and part of it is that I was expecting more from the controller.

Yeah, graphics don't matter. I agree with that in theory. It's certainly true that you don't need amazing graphics to have a great game. But they DO matter with some types of games. I don't care that much about the graphics in Wii Sports (although I wish it didn't have so many jaggies), but with something like Red Steel or Call of Duty 3, the graphics are a huge part of the game. I do think that graphics will improve (just as they will with the PS3), but that doesn't really help right now.

And the controller is simultaneously great and kind of frustrating. It does open up a lot of new gameplay opportunities, and there are a lot of cools things done with it. But in a lot of games the motion sensing is really just being used as a different kind of button. Take Zelda. You make a "sword slashing" motion with your hand and Link uses his sword on screen. But he doesn't actually mimic your motion. Does that really get you into the game more than pressing a button? I'm not so sure. Same with something like Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Making a motion for a particular super power probably seems cool at first, but do it a few dozen times and you'll be praying for a simple button. And for all the talk about how great it would be in first-person shooters, in reality it kind of sucks.

Is it the (non-online) multiplayer that people like so much about the Wii? I've played a few games with other people, and it certainly does improve the experience. As a one-player machine, I haven't been that impressed with the non-Zelda games that I've tried, and Zelda itself isn't even an exclusive. Actually, the thing I like the best is the Virtual console and Gamecube compatibility right now.

I'm not saying that the PS3 is better (both systems have relatively lackluster launch libraries), but I don't see why the PS3 is getting dumped on so much and the Wii is so "hot." The Xbox 360 blows them both out of the water when it comes to good games (as should be expected, given its head start). I guess it mostly boils down to price, and the fact that Nintendo managed to attract a lot of non-gamers. I don't know how well that will translate into long-term success, but then again they have done well using a similar strategy with the DS.

i agree with all of the above.. wii is fantastic fun for local multiplayer, but fails to satisfy as a single-player machine in general, with the exception of zelda. i'm sure this will change, but for now the games library seems like a collection of party games, mediocre games, and zelda.

if you have a HDTV and are used to Xbox360/PS3 level graphics, you will be sorely disappointed with the last-gen graphics, no doubt about it.. i personally think they took the 'it's all about the gameplay' ethos a little too far, as by the time they replace it with a new console, its hardware will be utterly archaic and games will be embarressingly fugly next to PS3 and Xbox360, which does matter to some people (myself included). mario and metroid will be interesting.

gameplay indeed reigns supreme, but graphics matter

[Hawkeye_a]

Most people have SDTVs, most people DO NOT have HDTVs (we're talking the whole world, not just the U.S. or Japan).

Nintendo makes a console with the purpose of appealing to that much larger untapped lapsed-gamer and non-gamer market.

So do they focus on the minority:
-HDTV owners
-few 18-35 year old males obsessed with graphics ?

Two companies are already focused on those two niches above, whats the point of a third company competeing for the same limited number of people and $$$ ?

If anyone wants to sell more consoles (and games), it's simple economics, focus on the market at large (The PS2's software lineup ensured it did this very well, the XBox offered online, somthing that didnt appeal to the console gamer last generation given it's results. And the GameCube was sorta like the ho-hum of the 3, it was too much like the other 2).

If that means ignoring the tiny number of people after HD graphics and Blu Ray players, then so be it. it ensures a reliable supply, mass market price and great value when you consider the added feature set over the previous generation which are:
-better graphics
-20 years of backwards compatibility
-WiFi built in
-new controller (not ignoring the "old-skool" controllers since GCN ports are built in)

Is anyone honestly surprised that Nintendo is outselling the PSP and PS3 ? getting(and selling) more games on the former, a larger variety of games as well and making a profit (if not breaking even) ? Simple economics coupled with the innovation in the controller is what made this console succesful.

The XBox has a year's head start and it's great they they followed Sony's previous-gen philosophy for an early launch...they can afford to do that. But Sony this time around has dropped the ball...everything it could have done wrong, it did. For the sake of argument the PS3's main competitor is the XBox360...so compared to the XB360...
-much later launch
-too speciailized processing (cell) (low yields, more expensive)
-br-dvd is slowing them down (according to them)
-the price is higher, the supply is lower
-their online offering..... is probably the most uncertain of the 3.

2-3 guys on this forum might harp on about the number of polygons, br-dvd, the same ol controller, etc.... but my point is...the ingredients that make up the PS3, are not what make a succesful platform for games, which is echoed by the low supply and low sales figures.

The million dollar question is..... when Sony fin ally gets it's manufacturing on track, what kind of a lead will Microsoft (and Nintendo have) ? From Sony's perspective, it's easy to see that their primary objective was to get their properietary format )BR-DVD) into the living room asap, and in that regard they were succesful..... but was it worth it when so few people have HDTVs ?

Rest assured that when the time is right, and the mass market (51+% of households) have HDTVs Nintendo will release a fully HD capable console, and when that happens it wont be so expensive to produce or to manufacture, and the console will most probably be affordable as well. thats the way to deploy a 'platform' and to run a business.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Rest assured that when the time is right, and the mass market (51+% of households) have HDTVs Nintendo will release a fully HD capable console, and when that happens it wont be so expensive to produce or to manufacture, and the console will most probably be affordable as well. thats the way to deploy a 'platform' and to run a business.

Nintendo has never been one to go for the bleeding, cutting-edge technologies. They usually wait until its matured and price has come down, innovating within that margin. And with the two other console choices already going that route (Sony most of all) I think consumers appreciate, a third, different and innovative and affordable choice.

And like you said, by the time HDTV is big, Nintendo will be there too, again probably more affordable than the other choices. I have an HDTV, by the way, but the Wii is the only next-gen console I can justify buying.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

thats the way to deploy a 'platform' and to run a business.

i'm not so convinced of this.. create a console that looks crappy for everyone who's bought a new tv in the last 12 months.. (nobody buys CRT/SDTVs anymore, check sales figures), and thats the way to do business? that's the way to make money, yes, they're making money off their hardware already, its very cheap to manufacture.. but at the expense of graphical quality. and graphical quality mattered to me looong before the 18-35 year old bracket you mentioned, i was always won over by great visuals as a teenager, and i'm most definitely not alone in that regard.

thats the one and only thing that confuses me about wii.. it's way behind the times in terms of hardware, and i think it'll suffer in a couple of years from that fact. sure, it makes nintendo money at launch, but in a way they're selling their gamers short IMHO.

i would have thought a machine that's up to current home specifications, or even reaching into the future a little (the wiimote clearly is), was a better way to secure future market domination, and make end users happy, which in turn makes more money etc.. in 3 yrs i'll still be playing games on Xbox360 that wow me with their presentation, where i simply can't see this - ever - on wii.. even zelda looks terrible on a hdtv, which is obviously not zelda's fault, but the fault of the system. there are a LOT of HDTVs in homes in the US and around the world.

for me, wii could never be more than a secondary console for a bit of fun on the side, never a primary machine or an only console. the technical limitations make games less enjoyable for me personally.. less buttons for tactical games, weaker graphics.

but then, people like me were never the target market for wii anyway... each to their own