[andi*pandi]

it's possible the republican party is just throwing her under the bus now. I don't think she'd be credible in 2012 regardless.

[ort888]

I think her best bet is to sign her family up for a reality TV show.

Palin' with the Palins on BRAVO. This Fall, Wednesdays at 8.

Seriously though. She's not dumb... she was just in over her head. I can't imagine a more grueling and demanding job then running for president. There are very few people that can hold up to that level of constant scrutiny. She just wasn't ready and the McCain camp over-estimated how ready she was to be thrown into that world. She just wasn't up to speed on national politics.

She needs to go back to Alaska where she is more at home and well qualified and loved. If she runs in 2012 she is going to get demolished. She won't even get out of the primary.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Seriously though. She's not dumb... she was just in over her head. I can't imagine a more grueling and demanding job then running for president. There are very few people that can hold up to that level of constant scrutiny. She just wasn't ready and the McCain camp over-estimated how ready she was to be thrown into that world. She just wasn't up to speed on national politics.

I think she knows her base very well. But she's either too stubborn to move outside of her base, or she's not intelligent enough to understand the other groups that make up this country. There was absolutely no attempt by her to appeal to moderates during the campaign.

[kobi]

McCain lost because the GOP still thinks the country is Center-Right when it fact it's Center-Left to Far Left. Why else would McCain change his campaign message to "change"?

The last 8 years of Republican control, destroyed this country and the people are tired of it. That's why Obama won by a landslide.

Here's a map of how the country voted by county on Tues night v. how they voted 4 years ago. Not a lot of red on there huh?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

it's possible the republican party is just throwing her under the bus now. I don't think she'd be credible in 2012 regardless.

My assumption is that they are throwing her under the bus to make sure she doesn't have a chance in 2012. While voters don't remember much past the last promise made to them, any future Republican candidate can use the information mentioned in the OP against her. And the OP's list doesn't even mention the whole clothing debacle. I think the centrist/moderate part of the Republican Party wants Sarah Palin to go back to Wasilla and disappear.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Here's a map of how the country voted by county on Tues night. Not a lot of red on there huh?

I think you're reading it wrong. That's not how the counties lean wrt the center, that's only how different they are (and which direction) from the arbitrary time-point of 4 years ago, based on only a single sampling of each (the presidential race). It could be confounded by the personal traits of Bush, Kerry, McCain, Obama or any combination. You can't use that figure to draw conclusions about whether the country is left or right of center. Any county that was anywhere right of center 4 years ago could still be to the right of center (just less so), and any county that was more rightward 4 years ago than they usually are (for whatever reason) will give completely meaningless results in that graphic (this year they could be either right or left of their "usual" spot).

[kobi]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

I think you're reading it wrong. That's not how the counties lean wrt the center, that's only how different they are (and which direction) from the arbitrary time-point of 4 years ago, based on only a single sampling of each (the presidential race). It could be confounded by the personal traits of Bush, Kerry, McCain, Obama or any combination. You can't use that figure to draw conclusions about whether the country is left or right of center. Any county that was anywhere right of center 4 years ago could still be to the right of center (just less so), and any county that was more rightward 4 years ago than they usually are (for whatever reason) will give completely meaningless results in that graphic (this year they could be either right or left of their "usual" spot).

Thanks, I've amended my original post to reflect the map is based on the difference between the vote on Tues v. the Vote in 2004.

I'm basing my thought that the country is Center-Left now on the fact that Obama and the Democrats won with a huge majority on Tues, the map was only a visual aid. Obama's electoral count is now 364 to McCain's 173 after North Carolina awarded to Obama today, and Nebraska's electoral vote leaning to Obama. With 3 Senate Seats still up for grabs in Alaska, Georgia and Minnesota and leaning to Democrats, were close to the 60 seat filibuster proof majority.
That's what I'm basing my opinion on. If the country wasn't Center-Left now how does someone explain the huge majority's in the win on Tues?

After the right leanings of the last 8 years, it will be refreshing to get a country back on the right track with a left-leaning Govt again.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by kobi 

If the country wasn't Center-Left now how does someone explain the huge majority's in the win on Tues?

There could be any number of explanations, not the least of which is voting against the incumbent (whomever they may be), which is not uncommon during poor economic conditions, or soon after an unpopular bill like the wall street bailout.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

There could be any number of explanations, not the least of which is voting against the incumbent (whomever they may be), which is not uncommon during poor economic conditions, or soon after an unpopular bill like the wall street bailout.

I agree. I wouldn't say we are center left. I mean even though Obama won and the dems won, all those anti-gay marriage ballot items got passed.

I think its safe to say that people weren't happy with the people that had been in office the last 8 years and the republicans paid a price being connected to Bush.

I also don't think that the US is center-right either. I think things are pretty close.

[ironknee]

we think palin is not such a smart cookie

but the "conservative base" is very excited about her... that says a lot imo

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Thanks, I've amended my original post to reflect the map is based on the difference between the vote on Tues v. the Vote in 2004.

I'm basing my thought that the country is Center-Left now on the fact that Obama and the Democrats won with a huge majority on Tues, the map was only a visual aid. Obama's electoral count is now 364 to McCain's 173 after North Carolina awarded to Obama today, and Nebraska's electoral vote leaning to Obama. With 3 Senate Seats still up for grabs in Alaska, Georgia and Minnesota and leaning to Democrats, were close to the 60 seat filibuster proof majority.
That's what I'm basing my opinion on. If the country wasn't Center-Left now how does someone explain the huge majority's in the win on Tues?

After the right leanings of the last 8 years, it will be refreshing to get a country back on the right track with a left-leaning Govt again.

I'd be careful about saying "huge majority" and using it to conclude anything about the population's political leanings. The "huge majority" was from the Electoral College. 53% of the popular vote, however, is not a "huge majority". If anything, it says to me that the population is pretty much split down the middle, with a whole bunch of people willing to swing Left or Right depending on the candidate.

Obama leans pretty far left, so I assume that McCain would have appealed more to those "undecideds". But, I think McCain made the unfortunate decision of selecting a VP candidate who leaned further to the right than Obama leans to the left, and I think that drove most of the undecideds straight to Obama.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I'd be careful about saying "huge majority" and using it to conclude anything about the population's political leanings. The "huge majority" was from the Electoral College.

FOX had all the EC maps since 1984 on a loop (one of the few technical things I think they did right), and every 30 seconds I would get floored again by how little Kerry had won from a geographical standpoint, but still almost barely made it.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ironknee 

we think palin is not such a smart cookie

but the "conservative base" is very excited about her... that says a lot imo

Yes, but nothing new. Many people in general, most visibly Republicans, do not place great value in intelligence... Hence Bush, hence Palin.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by subego 

FOX had all the EC maps since 1984 on a loop (one of the few technical things I think they did right), and every 30 seconds I would get floored again by how little Kerry had won from a geographical standpoint, but still just barely made it.

Kerry?

[subego]

Yes.

Slight redit.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Yes, but nothing new. Many people in general, most visibly Republicans, do not place great value in intelligence... Hence Bush, hence Palin.

...hence Biden. Biden makes Palin look like a nooklear physicist.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/feb...nion/op-chait4

Really, you guys need some new material.

[subego]

"I’m not saying Biden shouldn’t be president. I have tons of respect for him, and I think he’d do a terrific job if he could get it."

Wow. Damning article there.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by subego 

"I’m not saying Biden shouldn’t be president. I have tons of respect for him, and I think he’d do a terrific job if he could get it."

Wow. Damning article there.

It was from almost 2 years ago, detailing Biden's inability to talk without saying something really stupid before he was even named VP. Things only got worse as he went on.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/...rica/biden.php
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stump...e-machine.aspx

Had Palin actually said things as stupid as Biden did publicly, McCain would have dumped her. Biden gets a pass, and Palin gets SNL skits. Par for the media bias course.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Had Palin actually said things as stupid as Biden did publicly, McCain would have dumped her. Biden gets a pass, and Palin gets SNL skits. Par for the media bias course.

Biden got a pass because it's always been fun to chuckle about how he can put his foot in his mouth. Palin didn't because, well, no one was sure if maybe she wasn't actually that stupid.

[subego]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

It was from almost 2 years ago, detailing Biden's inability to talk without saying something really stupid before he was even named VP.

Exactly. Years ago, people were overwhelmed by Biden's capacity to say really stupid things.

Even people who like him, You know, the types disposed to "give him a pass".

I haven't noticed people who like Palin remarking she says stupid things. I see them defending stupid things.

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Had Palin actually said things as stupid...

Q.E.D.

[kobi]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Had Palin actually said things as stupid as Biden did publicly, McCain would have dumped her. Biden gets a pass, and Palin gets SNL skits. Par for the media bias course.

It's that "gotcha" journalism that "misquoted" Palin right? Outside of Fox news, Pailn gave two interviews! One to Charlie Gibson and the other to Katie Couric and she barely got through those.

Give me a break. She was hidden from the McCain campaign for a reason, because she can't complete a thought without sounding like a moron.

Let me ask this, can you name one thing that Pailn said her he nine weeks as a VP pick that was intelligent?

Biden is Biden, he wasn't picked for his speaking ability, he was picked for his outstanding service record as a Senator, and for his Foreign Policy experience.

[tie]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Had Palin actually said things as stupid as Biden did publicly, McCain would have dumped her. Biden gets a pass, and Palin gets SNL skits. Par for the media bias course.

Nonsense. Biden has given dozens, possibly hundreds, of substantial policy discussions in the last few years. So yes, he has made a lot of gaffes, but they have been divided over many appearances. Have you ever listened to him? He is on the News Hour all the time, as well as all the other news programs, and the transcripts are all available. He is actually really sharp talking about foreign policy, and he also gets along quite well with the Republicans on the program. He's thoughtful---sometimes he is wrong, but he can defend himself.

On the other hand, Palin has only participated in a couple of policy discussions, and in every single one she sounded like an idiot. And it is not because of gaffes. A gaffe is a misstatement. Everyone makes them, even smart people (Bush, Biden, etc.), some more than others. Something like Palin's famous Alaska-close-to-Russia meme was not a gaffe because she stuck with it for the full campaign. It was just stupid.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Biden got a pass because it's always been fun to chuckle about how he can put his foot in his mouth. Palin didn't because, well, no one was sure if maybe she wasn't actually that stupid.

How is not knowing who was President when the stock market crashed, then thinking he went on TV simply putting his 'foot in his mouth"? How is thinking that we and France drove out Hezbollah putting his 'foot in his mouth"? Asking the crippled guy to stand up is putting his "foot in his mouth". Consistently saying things that are completely factually wrong - things that a person who completes the 7th grade should know, isn't putting your "foot in your mouth". It's showing your ignorance of the facts. Biden always got a pass for that.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by kobi 

It's that "gotcha" journalism that "misquoted" Palin right? Outside of Fox news, Pailn gave two interviews! One to Charlie Gibson and the other to Katie Couric and she barely got through those.

She gave two at the very beginning. I believe she had given a few others, and answered questions from reporters on the campaign trail.

Give me a break. She was hidden from the McCain campaign for a reason, because she can't complete a thought without sounding like a moron.

..and Biden wasn't hidden? Story after story reported that Obama's people wanted BIden out of the media's eye and not "on the record" about anything because every time he did he said something stupid. Almost the entire VP debate BIden kept offering up factual error after factual error. Palin was no champ, but she wasn't sitting there making sh$t up out of thin air like Biden, about stuff he knew little about.

Biden is Biden, he wasn't picked for his speaking ability, he was picked for his outstanding service record as a Senator, and for his Foreign Policy experience.

Palin is Palin, she wasn't picked for her adeptness at interviews, she was picked for her outstanding service record as an executive in the state of Alaska, and for her experience in domestic energy production.

See, it's really easy to engage in a partisan double standard when no one is out there acting as a "check and balance". BIden's an idiot. It doesn't matter how many years in the Senate he's gotten the people of his state to put him into, or how many committee meeting he's gone to. If you can defend Biden and chastise Palin, you're not in a very credible position in my opinion.

[kobi]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

See, it's really easy to engage in a partisan double standard when no one is out there acting as a "check and balance". BIden's an idiot. It doesn't matter how many years in the Senate he's gotten the people of his state to put him into, or how many committee meeting he's gone to. If you can defend Biden and chastise Palin, you're not in a very credible position in my opinion.

Sorry but there's no way to defend Palin. She's was one of the reasons for the McCain loss, plain and simple. I'd be embarrassed if someone actually did, there's simply no way you can.

There's no double standard. If you can't see the better person for the job, then you need to stop drinking the kool aid, as Rev. Jones is about to speak.

It's obvious the American people, picked the better person for the job why can't you?

[TheMosco]

http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.h...9d70b0c12f2749

Even Bill O'Reilly is making some sense about this issue.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

She gave two at the very beginning. I believe she had given a few others, and answered questions from reporters on the campaign trail.

You "believe"? In this age when everything is immediately available for play-back, you can't find *any* evidence to back up your "belief"?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

If you can defend Biden and chastise Palin, you're not in a very credible position in my opinion.

That does not make any sense whatsoever. Biden is respected for his knowledge by both sides, even though he can stick his foot in his mouth. ie. He's not an orator like JFK.

OTOH, Palin is criticized by her lack of knowledge by both sides. She comes across as completely outclassed by her so-called peers.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by kobi 

Sorry but there's no way to defend Palin. She's was one of the reasons for the McCain loss, plain and simple. I'd be embarrassed if someone actually did, there's simply no way you can.

There's no double standard. If you can't see the better person for the job, then you need to stop drinking the kool aid, as Rev. Jones is about to speak.

It's obvious the American people, picked the better person for the job why can't you?

McCain lost because the powers that be wanted BO elected and pulled the legs out from under Fannie and Freddie ahead of schedule. When the election was about foreign policy and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, BO was losing.

Palin graduated with BS in communications-journalism, along with a minor in political science.

[besson3c]

That's quite the assertion that somebody intentionally sabotaged Fannie and Freddie, isn't it Chongo? Do you have any evidence to support this?

[andi*pandi]

apparently wherever she went to college didn't teach her africa was a continent, and if she minored in pol/sci then it's even more appalling she didn't know what the VP does.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

McCain lost because the powers that be wanted BO elected and pulled the legs out from under Fannie and Freddie ahead of schedule. When the election was about foreign policy and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, BO was losing.

Palin graduated with BS in communications-journalism, along with a minor in political science.

Er…why do you mention her undergrad degree? Is a bachelor's in communications supposed to impress somebody?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

McCain lost because the powers that be wanted BO elected and pulled the legs out from under Fannie and Freddie ahead of schedule. When the election was about foreign policy and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, BO was losing.

I think you may have watched too much X-Files and are seeing conspiracies whenever something happens that you disagree with.

It's just as ludicrous to suggest that the economy was collapsed to get Obama elected as it was when people suggested 9/11 was instigated to solidify Bush's presidency.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

apparently wherever she went to college didn't teach her africa was a continent, and if she minored in pol/sci then it's even more appalling she didn't know what the VP does.

hear hear

How anyone can excuse such blatant ignorance just leaves me speechless. Wait, no; such blatant ignorance is absolutely fine. Lots of people don't give a **** about what the VP does, or the difference between Africa and South Africa. Sure, that's cool.

But when they try to lead the country....

greg

[tie]

Am I the only one here who doubts that Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent? (Isn't this something you learn in kindergarten?) No wonder McCain lost.

[ort888]

It seems hard to believe. All of these unverifiable rumors don't do any of us any good.

The election is over. Let's move on. If she runs in 2012, we'll find new and substantive reasons to disagree with her... but this stuff is ridiculous.

[Chuckit]

People can be really thick. Jay Leno once did one of his Jay Walking segments after the UCLA graduation ceremony. He went up and asked these people in their caps and gowns questions like, "How many moons does the earth have?" The woman's reply: "Oh, geez. I took astronomy forever ago. Uh…uh…uh…two?" He turns her toward where the moon is rising. "How many moons do you see?" She gets all embarrassed and mumbles, "Oh, I thought you meant…uh…I took astronomy forever ago."

[subego]

Originally Posted by tie 

Am I the only one here who doubts that Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent? (Isn't this something you learn in kindergarten?) No wonder McCain lost.

I'm skeptical. I'd be more skeptical if it wasn't FOX. I'd imagine enough time has passed that if it was a joke or hyperbole, we would have had a clarification, so I'm not sure about that scenario. This leaves the outright lie scenario still in play.

OTOH, if it is a lie, they chose to lie about something where people are consistently ignorant, so it was a good pick from that standpoint.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

McCain lost because the powers that be wanted BO elected and pulled the legs out from under Fannie and Freddie ahead of schedule. When the election was about foreign policy and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, BO was losing.

Palin graduated with BS in communications-journalism, along with a minor in political science.

Communications and Political Science? Aren't those typically *Social* Science or *Liberal* Arts degrees?

[goMac]

Newsweek has some more info today...

Another reporter asked if he was happy with "the pick of Palin." He ducked the question. Schmidt was trying, not very hard, to hide his true feelings. He had been compelled to personally take over Palin's debate prep when she seemed unwilling to engage in the drudge work of learning the issues. McCain's advisers had been frustrated when Palin refused to talk to donors because she found it corrupting, and they were furious when they heard rumors that Todd Palin was calling around to Alaska bigwigs telling them to hold their powder until 2012. The day of the third debate, Palin refused to go onstage with New Hampshire GOP Sen. John Sununu and Jeb Bradley, a New Hampshire congressman running for the Senate, because they were pro-choice and because Bradley opposed drilling in Alaska. The McCain campaign ordered her onstage at the next campaign stop, but she refused to acknowledge the two Republican candidates standing behind her. McCain himself rarely spoke to Palin (perhaps once a week when they were not traveling together, estimated one adviser). Aides kept him in the dark about Palin's spending on clothes because they were sure he'd be offended. In his concession speech, McCain praised Palin, but the body language between them onstage was not particularly friendly. (Palin had asked to speak; Schmidt vetoed the request.)

http://www.newsweek.com/id/168017/page/7

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

Palin is Palin, she wasn't picked for her adeptness at interviews, she was picked for her outstanding service record as an executive in the state of Alaska, and for her experience in domestic energy production.

I have to disagree. Palin wasn't picked for her experience. She was picked because of her far right leaning Christian ideology and she is a woman. McCain wanted Leiberman as his VP pick, but he's Jewish and wouldn't appeal to the far right. If McCain would have picked Romney his Mormonism also wouldn't have appealed to the far right. McCain's camp knew they were losing and thought that when Obama dissed Hillary as his VP pick, they could appeal to both the far right and the pissed off Hillary supporters by going with Palin. The truth is Palin was a puppet and I'm sure she knew it, but went along for the ride. Palin definitely appealed to the far right, but the the female vote saw through McCain's cheap stunt.

Imagine if the governor of Alaska had the exact same credentials, experience and resume as Palin, but was a man. Do you think McCain would have picked that man to be his running mate? I don't think so.

[Chuckit]

It's unfortunate that he was so desperate to pander to the far right, because if McCain had picked Romney, his economic credentials could have stitched up the race for McCain.

[subego]

Originally Posted by waxcrash 

Imagine if the mayor of Alaska

Mayor of Alaska?

You must be stoopid like Joe Biden.

[waxcrash]

Originally Posted by subego 

Mayor of Alaska?

You must be stoopid like Joe Biden.

Fixed, thanks.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's unfortunate that he was so desperate to pander to the far right, because if McCain had picked Romney, his economic credentials could have stitched up the race for McCain.

Agreed. It's not like anyone from the far right would have voted for his opponent had McCain chosen to appeal to undecideds instead. At worst, they would have simply forfeited their votes; but at best he would have had their votes *plus* more votes from the center. Lesson: never give in to extremists.

[TheWOAT]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

It's unfortunate that he was so desperate to pander to the far right, because if McCain had picked Romney, his economic credentials could have stitched up the race for McCain.

Or Bloomberg. Palin did get the base riled up, but her selection lost McCain the independents and a the few democrats still stung by the sexist Obama supporters.

[subego]

Palin's comment on the issue:

"I think if there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about NAFTA or about the continent versus the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context, and that is cruel and mean-spirited, it's immature, it's unprofessional, and those guys are jerks," Palin said.

It's not fair and it's not right," she said.

[tie]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm skeptical. I'd be more skeptical if it wasn't FOX. I'd imagine enough time has passed that if it was a joke or hyperbole, we would have had a clarification, so I'm not sure about that scenario. This leaves the outright lie scenario still in play.

OTOH, if it is a lie, they chose to lie about something where people are consistently ignorant, so it was a good pick from that standpoint.

Well, Palin has responded, and she did not deny it. She only said that it was taken out of context.

"So, no, I think that if there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about Nafta, and about the continent versus the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context."

Sigh.

[TheMosco]

"I think the republican ticket represented too much of the status quo, too much of what had gone on in these last 8 years that Americans were shaking their head at..."

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/pol...in.at.home.cnn

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by subego 

Palin's comment on the issue:

"I think if there are allegations based on questions or comments that I made in debate prep about NAFTA or about the continent versus the country when we talk about Africa there, then those were taken out of context, and that is cruel and mean-spirited, it's immature, it's unprofessional, and those guys are jerks," Palin said.

It's not fair and it's not right," she said.

"The continent versus the country when we talk about Africa"? What country? Does she think "Africa" is shorthand for Nigeria sometimes?