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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > Feedback > The Hammer Returns: Na-nana-na, Can't Touch This

The Hammer Returns: Na-nana-na, Can't Touch This (Page 3)
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
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Sep 14, 2017, 04:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Once a member's specific post has an infraction, we don't add more to that post. The unacceptable posts not only continued, but from my point of view they accelerated. So each new, unacceptable post earned Capn more infractions.
Oh my lord? Really? More infractions? That's rough. Well, I'm not a member of the mod caste, but I probably would have talked to the person, who'd been on the forum for a dozen years, telling them that they needed to relax... rather than just have useless meetings with the whole staff, that were in no way actual communication with me, the person who was supposedly annoying you all so mightily with infractions.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 04:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
I don't understand the point of using any kind of system when the # of active members in the forbidden city can be counted on two hands. Infractions? Really? Like what's the point? That system was for managing hundreds and thousands of users. Not 8.

This place has been dead for years. Those few of us who are still around are here for each other, and ya'll should be the stewards of our community not some police force locking people up arbitrarily. We're quite capable of managing ourselves. We literally just lost 12.5% of the PWL, and for what? What did these infractions accomplish?

Not that I defend the behavior seen from some of those in the PWL - emotions can run high. But it really just seems juvenile, petty, and quite frankly silly at this stage in the game. Since we've all been posting intimately for quite a few years now, how could we not address any issues directly and without bouncing a large percentage of our userbase?
This is reasonable, with such a small forum, but it doesn't give the inside group a seemingly neutral, yet in reality is wholly arbitrary, system that they can use to bounce people they disagree with. "Hey, we understand that this looks janky, but you know, the rules are rules and he filled up some bar somewhere and we have to ban him. No, we didn't actually talk with him, don't be absurd. That's why we have this needlessly complex system designed for 1000s of people."

Oh, and did I tell you that some of the things that I initially received "points" for, leading to my banning, were things that I actually did not do? Yeah, turns out that 5 of the points, which put me over the top, were supposed to go to someone else (what did the mods talk about in those meetings?). Of course, by then I'd already been silenced and couldn't communicate, but I did get a nice email explaining that those 5 points were taken away. Whether they mattered in the long run is anyone's guess, but I'm guessing they didn't.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 05:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
You reap what you sow.
This one's classic. One of the forum's own chief sub-structural, subterranean-dwelling, sun-evading, goat-grabbers saying, "you got what's coming to ya"... for trolling. some folks around here can't post anything and have a decent conversation without one of you snarky-mcsnarkersons having a go at them, but I reaped what I've sown, eh? When is it time for your harvest? Oh, that's right, you need to reach the top of the totally-not-arbitrary infraction jar, I forgot.


(*and that's what my infractions were for; incitement, aka. trolling.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
sek929
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Sep 14, 2017, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
This one's classic. One of the forum's own chief sub-structural, subterranean-dwelling, sun-evading, goat-grabbers saying, "you got what's coming to ya"... for trolling.
Feel free to point to my history of being a contrarian troll, I'll wait. Sorry you got banned, try not being an asshole.

Classist bigot and incurable ideologue
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Feel free to point to my history of being a contrarian troll
You mean other than in this thread, just now?

Sorry you got banned, try not being an asshole.
Like that? Do STFU.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
OreoCookie
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Sep 14, 2017, 02:18 PM
 
Please keep it civil, guys, calling each other names is not helping anyone.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Please keep it civil, guys, calling each other names is not helping anyone.
Weird how it took a turn for the worse once the banned guy came back.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
     
Snow-i
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Sep 14, 2017, 02:46 PM
 
Sorta goes to my point that the ban accomplished precisely nothing, except to grind an axe and to further inflame the situation.


We could try it my way. We've all been posting here a long, long time and should be comfortable in talking openly and respectfully to come to an agreement. Or, we can keep going down this road. In order to do that, however, everyone here needs to open their minds and try to play devil's advocate on our own positions. That might be too much to ask, but I see legitimate complaints all around that are not being addressed because the focus is entirely on assigning blame and justifying/rationalizing our positions instead of trying to find a way forward.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Please keep it civil, guys, calling each other names is not helping anyone.
Yeah, stick to this ridiculous system, right to the very end. Maybe we can all have an earnest talk about all this without someone smashing the "cry" button? He asked for evidence of trolling, and I pointed out the (concern) trolling in the very post he made. OH, you mean me telling him to STFU? When he was actively trolling? Okay...

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Weird how it took a turn for the worse once the banned guy came back.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
Yeah, it was going swimmingly when subego was told that his observations were wrong (when they weren't, they were dead-on) and when the mods and admins were hand-waving away Snow-i's comments and outright making things up (while most of the rest of you either piled on to denigrate me or just post snark*)? Weird how it "took a turn for the worse" when the guy being misrepresented comes back to defend his position? You don't say?


(*Thanks to Laminar for being neutral.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Snow-i
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Sep 14, 2017, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Feel free to point to my history of being a contrarian troll, I'll wait. Sorry you got banned, try not being an asshole.
Being an asshole, even to an asshole, still makes you an asshole. Not helping.
     
Snow-i
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Sep 14, 2017, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What ever will we do with less disingenuous arguments and name calling in the PL?
Well it wouldn't be the PL in this instance. You could have your echo chamber, or you can deal with diversity of personality, viewpoints, and posting styles. Pick one. Comes with the territory and it has for the entirety of the PWL's history.
     
Snow-i
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Weird how it took a turn for the worse once the banned guy came back.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
What did you expect to happen? I tried to point this out, and you shot me down. Turns out I was correct, and you issue a snarky comment on it as if somehow this isn't exactly what was going to happen given how this situation was handled. Maybe there's a bit more to this than just being morally justified in a vacuum?
     
sek929
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:08 PM
 
I was being very helpful.

Shaddim got banned because he was being an asshole troll, something he even admits himself, so I suggested he not do that anymore. Pretty simple.

When I got my temp ban for being an asshole I came back and penned a hilarious post that was beloved by all and I moved on with my life. The thing is, being able to do that requires humility and self-awareness, of which he has none.

It's not my fault he's going to bitch and moan and play the victim card, that's his choice, much like the aforementioned trolling.

Classist bigot and incurable ideologue
     
subego  (op)
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Weird how it took a turn for the worse once the banned guy came back.

Coincidence, I'm sure.
This is a cheap shot, no?
     
Snow-i
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I don't think anyone would describe the PL as a “perfect” community. Nor do I agree that we have to accept a member who is trolling and happens to post a lot.
Members*

But if you're not going to accept it, don't accept it. Don't hide behind a paradigm you do not adhere to except when it suits your objectives. It isn't fooling anyone.

We do not base our decisions on whether or not we like or agree with somebody, but by how they carry themselves in our forums.
But as subego pointed out much more elegantly that I, you only make those evaluations selectively based on some criteria not yet explained. The number of infractions issued in aggregate confirms this.

Shaddim was not unfairly “singled out” for his opinions. Can you think of a reason where you were chastised by a staff member outside of the PL because of the political opinions you hold?
I only post in the PWL. I am not accusing you of bias for political ideology. I am accusing you of having an axe to grind and dancing around the truth to make it look like this was objectively handled. It was not.

This insinuation comes up every single time someone gets banned for his behavior in the PL, even when half of the active mods were of the same political stripe as the member in question. If you troll other members for fun, if you regularly insult other members, then you shouldn't be surprised if your behavior has repercussions.
Strawman.

Also, back at you. If you use your mod powers justified by "objective, uniformly applied rules" don't be surprised when you get called out for not being objective or uniformly applying the rules.

Regarding “3-5 others do it, too”: if you think other members's posts are inappropriate, report them. In any case, it is not an argument for letting bad behavior slide.
No, it's an indictment that your stated reasoning is inconsistent with your actions and the situation as a whole, and therefore your credibility in your stated reasoning comes into question. That is the question I am posing to you now.
     
Snow-i
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:16 PM
 
Oh, and did I tell you that some of the things that I initially received "points" for, leading to my banning, were things that I actually did not do? Yeah, turns out that 5 of the points, which put me over the top, were supposed to go to someone else (what did the mods talk about in those meetings?). Of course, by then I'd already been silenced and couldn't communicate, but I did get a nice email explaining that those 5 points were taken away. Whether they mattered in the long run is anyone's guess, but I'm guessing they didn't.
Mods? is this true?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I was being very helpful.
By trying to provoke me? Never.

When I got my temp ban for being an asshole I came back and penned a hilarious post that was beloved by all and I moved on with my life. The thing is, being able to do that requires humility and self-awareness, of which he has none.
You have none of either and you actually think you're "beloved by all"? Hilarious.

It's not my fault he's going to bitch and moan and play the victim card, that's his choice, much like the aforementioned trolling.
Since this isn't about you, Mr Humility, I'm just going to stick you on ignore. Run along now.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Maybe there's a bit more to this than just being morally justified in a vacuum?
I just want to point out how well you succinctly distilled the largest issue with MacNN. Well said.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
sek929
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:25 PM
 
I said the post was beloved by all.

Secondly, your barage of strange insults in response to my "reap what you sow" comment was before my "provocation"

By all means put me on ignore if you can't handle the truth snowflake.

Classist bigot and incurable ideologue
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
This is a cheap shot, no?
In what way? Its what's happened.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Well it wouldn't be the PL in this instance. You could have your echo chamber, or you can deal with diversity of personality, viewpoints, and posting styles. Pick one. Comes with the territory and it has for the entirety of the PWL's history.
I notice you still haven't explained how 'we' can 'handle' things and continue to say bad behavior should be accepted.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
What did you expect to happen? I tried to point this out, and you shot me down. Turns out I was correct, and you issue a snarky comment on it as if somehow this isn't exactly what was going to happen given how this situation was handled. Maybe there's a bit more to this than just being morally justified in a vacuum?
Yeah, person banned for bad behavior returns with a vengeance. Bold prediction there.

I've already given my opinion that 0-to-ban is bullshit. It's up to the music da to explain but I'm not exactly following their comments closely after a few pages.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I notice you still haven't explained how 'we' can 'handle' things and continue to say bad behavior should be accepted.
Oh, I dunno, maybe by asking, either in PMs, or directly in the thread, that the person please calm down? It's seems that you want to be a part of social media but you don't quite get the "social" part of it sometimes. The infraction system went from being a useful tool to handle 1000s of people, who barely knew each other at all, to becoming a blunt weapon for smashing other lifelong regulars (within a tiny community) that you already don't like. "Hey, what they said could be taken badly, I'll just get the mods to beat them up."
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Yeah, person banned for bad behavior returns with a vengeance. Bold prediction there.
Maybe because what was being represented wasn't right? Also, since I've never been banned before, ever, you have no basis for that prediction, only your own dislike of me (largely due to nothing more than political minutiae).
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 04:09 PM
 
Honestly, too often it feels like living in a small town with a population of 10 citizens and 10 police, and if you wander too close to the line in the center of town, one of the other citizens will ring the church bell and the cops will converge and beat the hell out of you (maybe even gag you and throw you in jail, too). I don't want that, what person in their right mind would?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego  (op)
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Sep 14, 2017, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
In what way? Its what's happened.
Do we have the same understanding of what cheap shot means?

It's not a claim the argument is inaccurate, it's a claim the argument isn't compelling.

In this example, we are meant to see the reaction to the ban as an indictment of character. I do not find this argument compelling.
     
The Final Dakar
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Sep 14, 2017, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do we have the same understanding of what cheap shot means?

It's not a claim the argument is inaccurate, it's a claim the argument isn't compelling.

In this example, we are meant to see the reaction to the ban as an indictment of character. I do not find this argument compelling.
We'll disagree on that one.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Do we have the same understanding of what cheap shot means?

It's not a claim the argument is inaccurate, it's a claim the argument isn't compelling.

In this example, we are meant to see the reaction to the ban as an indictment of character. I do not find this argument compelling.
He's only in this thread for "cheap shots", as were others. He has no intention of providing anything compelling. C'mon, the guy is purposely going out of his way to keep from addressing me, despite the fact that the thread is at least partly about me. Tells you all you need to know, doesn't it?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
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Sep 14, 2017, 06:17 PM
 
Cap'n Tightpants, I haven't been following this thread super closely, but I would be interested in your own take on why you were banned? What were your infractions for?

You know me, I'm not huge on forum rules so I'm not going to scold you or get all semantic about the rules, but you also don't have a good track record for admitting when you are wrong. Forget the rules for a minute, do you think anything you've done is annoying and would get on people's bad sides? I'm not suggesting that you need to be on everybody's good side. I'm certainly not, but it appears that a number of people have felt annoyed by you generally. Do you understand why that might be?
     
ghporter
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Sep 14, 2017, 06:48 PM
 
Just an observation: I've spent more time reading and participating in this thread lately than I have with the rest of the forums put together. I'm getting some folks' sense that we on the staff have some agenda for controlling what people think and how they say simple and constructive things, though I'm not sure what that would gain anyone.

I'm getting others' sense that we conspired to ban someone who has stated that he was trolling because we didn't like him, rather than because of his distracting and uncivil trolling posts.

And overall I seem to see a lot of people expressing the idea that the staff likes to sit around and mess with people just because. Or that we have some strict (and apparently secret) code for how we manage things, just to control people (or some junk like that).

We on the staff are volunteers. We have these things called "lives," and often spend our days doing "work," which means we have limited time to participate on MacNN. I often dread checking in because of the way some folks interact; it's stressful knowing that no matter how well intentioned I am, someone is going to complain that I stepped on their feelings when all I tried to do was keep discussions civil and not let them degenerate into 4th grade-level spitball fights.

So believe all you want that we are against you. I will honestly state that I do not think we (the staff) are a cohesive enough group to coordinate enough to be against any specific individual. We have a variety of opinions about how discussions should be managed, and if they should be managed at all. I'm not sure that a group such as we are could actively conspire against anyone.

I will say honestly that while I know it doesn't matter in any real sense what anyone here thinks of me, the wellbeing of MacNN is important to me. Enough so that I spend time here trying to keep a site we all worked very hard to keep from dying from spiraling down the toilet amid shrieks of "you have wronged me!"

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
sek929
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Sep 14, 2017, 06:55 PM
 
People with delusions of grandeur love to cling to conspiracy theories.

As I said before, most people coming off a short temp ban use the opportunity to self evaluate, some people are only interested in throwing a tantrum and calling out the mods for perceived injustices.

You're doing a fine job Glen, that goes for all our volunteer mods.

Classist bigot and incurable ideologue
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 14, 2017, 07:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I'm getting others' sense that we conspired to ban someone who has stated that he was trolling because we didn't like him,
You're either misrepresenting OR you misread, because I said nothing of the sort. I trolled paco to get him to attack me, because he has a nasty temper and had been especially abusive lately, that was it. I never said that about the mods, and anyone who does is full of crap (or misread the entire situation).

We on the staff are volunteers.
and that has nothing to do with mods making misleading statements in this thread. I want to know when andi, or any of the staff here, contacted me, before just banning me. Why was I not unbanned when it was found out that part of the "charges" were wrong?
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Waragainstsleep
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Sep 14, 2017, 08:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're either misrepresenting OR you misread, because I said nothing of the sort. I trolled paco to get him to attack me, because he has a nasty temper and had been especially abusive lately, that was it. I never said that about the mods, and anyone who does is full of crap (or misread the entire situation).
He didn't say you said it.



I want to thank all the volunteer staff for the time they donate to keeping MacNN going for us.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
besson3c
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Sep 14, 2017, 11:16 PM
 
Have you guys ever put "mod of MacNN" on your resumé?
     
reader50
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Sep 15, 2017, 12:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Oh, and did I tell you that some of the things that I initially received "points" for, leading to my banning, were things that I actually did not do? Yeah, turns out that 5 of the points, which put me over the top, were supposed to go to someone else (what did the mods talk about in those meetings?). Of course, by then I'd already been silenced and couldn't communicate, but I did get a nice email explaining that those 5 points were taken away. Whether they mattered in the long run is anyone's guess, but I'm guessing they didn't.
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Mods? is this true?
To use the Snopes grading scale, Partly True

One post got nicked 5pt for an objectionable phrase, as well as trolling. Then I noticed that phrase posted by besson in the same thread. I must have mis-ascribed who posted it. So he got the same 5pt. And I told the Cptn to disregard that part of the complaint.

But ... it turned out both had posted the same phrase. Neither was a quote of the other. I went back and doublechecked the deleted posts to be certain. I do wish I'd spotted that before telling the Cptn to ignore that part. Oops - but PMs can't be edited after you hit Send. I plead honest mistake.
     
besson3c
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Sep 15, 2017, 12:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
To use the Snopes grading scale, Partly True

One post got nicked 5pt for an objectionable phrase, as well as trolling. Then I noticed that phrase posted by besson in the same thread. I must have mis-ascribed who posted it. So he got the same 5pt. And I told the Cptn to disregard that part of the complaint.

But ... it turned out both had posted the same phrase. Neither was a quote of the other. I went back and doublechecked the deleted posts to be certain. I do wish I'd spotted that before telling the Cptn to ignore that part. Oops - but PMs can't be edited after you hit Send. I plead honest mistake.

What happened was Tightpants insisted to me that I "calm my tits", and I turned his exact logic back at him and used the same expression as my punchline to illustrate that I just turned the tables on him. It wouldn't have been as clear without the term. I don't normally use sexist language like that.

So, I demand that you guys remove my 5 points, or else I'll see your asses in court.

Either take away those points, or give me 5 special points that reward me for being besson3c.

BTW, speaking of suing you guys, do you guys realize that I still have my poop censor?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2017, 01:03 AM
 
Exhibit G in "ridiculous things to infract people for"; telling people to calm their tits. You can't be serious? That's the most ticky-tack garbage imaginable.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2017, 03:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
He didn't say you said it.
Oh yeah, he totally didn't mean me, despite it being about me, in a thread about a situation that I'm at the center of. Mia-freakin'-culpa. Go lawyer that elsewhere.

While we're at it, I still can't find where/when this happened:

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I said my experience.

That means I tried, and was blown off, ignored, etc.
I just ignored it? Given that I have an uncanny memory for text, and remember practically every discussion I've ever had here (I wish I could do that with verbal conversations), I'm just going to chalk that up as something you honestly believe you did, but for whatever reason didn't actually happen. Maybe you forgot to hit submit, because I can understand that.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2017, 03:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
To use the Snopes grading scale, Partly True
It's not "party true", it is true, considering the information I had available. You can't just sit there and say I wasn't being honest when I was being truthful within the best of my ability. Hell, that even falls within the legal definition of telling the truth. Maybe if I hadn't been unceremoniously gagged, this wouldn't even be happening.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
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Sep 15, 2017, 09:47 AM
 
What are you hoping to accomplish here now, Tightpants?

Are you hoping to be right and granted an apology or something?
     
Spheric Harlot
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Sep 15, 2017, 03:35 PM
 
I'm pretty sure Glen and Oreo have said all that needs to be said in this thread.

The rest is not even popcorn-worthy.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2017, 04:40 PM
 
All that NEEDS to be said? Hell no. They NEED to address the arbitrary, idiotic infraction system, that was intended for a community 100x this size, but is now just abused by a select few, who are so pitiful (and fragile) and that they have nothing better to do.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Snow-i
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Sep 15, 2017, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I was being very helpful.

Shaddim got banned because he was being an asshole troll, something he even admits himself, so I suggested he not do that anymore. Pretty simple.

When I got my temp ban for being an asshole I came back and penned a hilarious post that was beloved by all and I moved on with my life. The thing is, being able to do that requires humility and self-awareness,
Great advice.

of which he has none.

It's not my fault he's going to bitch and moan and play the victim card, that's his choice, much like the aforementioned trolling.
Not helping.
     
Snow-i
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Sep 15, 2017, 05:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Just an observation: I've spent more time reading and participating in this thread lately than I have with the rest of the forums put together. I'm getting some folks' sense that we on the staff have some agenda for controlling what people think and how they say simple and constructive things, though I'm not sure what that would gain anyone.

I'm getting others' sense that we conspired to ban someone who has stated that he was trolling because we didn't like him, rather than because of his distracting and uncivil trolling posts.
We're trying to get to the bottom of what actually happened because the explanation/rationale is inconsistent with what we, who are not part of those discussions, understand about the situation.

Direct, Open, and Honest conversation can fix this. Thus far I get the feeling you are the only one on the staff offering us that here in this thread. That's just my perception - and again I don't think any of this was in bad faith - that doesn't mean it isn't worthy of scrutiny.

And overall I seem to see a lot of people expressing the idea that the staff likes to sit around and mess with people just because. Or that we have some strict (and apparently secret) code for how we manage things, just to control people (or some junk like that).
I think the problem is that it, 999/1000 times is not strict (good thing at this stage) but in this one particular instance is strict adherence to rules that haven't been strictly enforced in years. The questions arise from a perceived change in the way things are being done for one specific member, compounded by responses that to us are not consistent with what actually transpired.

We on the staff are volunteers. We have these things called "lives," and often spend our days doing "work," which means we have limited time to participate on MacNN. I often dread checking in because of the way some folks interact; it's stressful knowing that no matter how well intentioned I am, someone is going to complain that I stepped on their feelings when all I tried to do was keep discussions civil and not let them degenerate into 4th grade-level spitball fights.
And for that you have my (and I'm sure others') utmost respect. Believe it or not, we have those same things too. Let us help you here instead of taking the burden all by yourself. Everyone here is here on the deepest level in good-faith - I believe that wholeheartedly.

The disagreement is in the mechanism, not the intent. Followup inquiries didn't pass the sniff test and several of us have raised concerns.

So believe all you want that we are against you. I will honestly state that I do not think we (the staff) are a cohesive enough group to coordinate enough to be against any specific individual. We have a variety of opinions about how discussions should be managed, and if they should be managed at all. I'm not sure that a group such as we are could actively conspire against anyone.
We don't believe you are against us at all. This is kinda my point. I'm all for open discussion, but such discussion behind closed doors is not open, so it follows that we are going to have questions when a drastic action is taken that hasn't been taken in years. So the disconnect here is in the perspective, and while the staff discusses perspectives outside of our view and comes back with a bunch of reasons that don't make sense to us, our natural reaction is to question and hash it out. It's the way of the PWL.

I will say honestly that while I know it doesn't matter in any real sense what anyone here thinks of me, the wellbeing of MacNN is important to me. Enough so that I spend time here trying to keep a site we all worked very hard to keep from dying from spiraling down the toilet amid shrieks of "you have wronged me!"
This is a shared goal between everyone participating in this thread. While we may not agree, please don't think this is about anything but the well being of the community which we all deeply care about.

Edited to add: Speaking for myself, I think very highly of you. Since we have spent so much time here, I believe that absolutely is a real sense even if the nature of our relationships isn't "IRL".
( Last edited by Snow-i; Sep 15, 2017 at 06:12 PM. )
     
Snow-i
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Sep 15, 2017, 06:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
All that NEEDS to be said? Hell no. They NEED to address the arbitrary, idiotic infraction system, that was intended for a community 100x this size, but is now just abused by a select few, who are so pitiful (and fragile) and that they have nothing better to do.
I think we've demonstrated this to them well enough to have made our case, and at least from my vantage would like to allow them a chance to process it, ponder it, and incorporate our perspective, however valuable to them, into the future. For now, I think any more on the subject might just further entrench us all.

I think it might be time to move on from this episode and get back to what we're really here for - vehemently disagreeing with one another about politics. Are you ok doing that with me?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Sep 15, 2017, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Are you ok doing that with me?
I'm fine with that, though I wonder how much it will actually help, in light of all the antagonism being hurled by other members over simply questioning the system. In this very thread I got an official warning over asking someone to "STFU", after I was deliberately trolled and then called an asshole.

Once a person becomes accustomed to using abuse as a way of trying to solve their own issues, getting them to stop is almost impossible, especially when they have a ready tool at their disposal once they get the reaction they were hoping for. But yeah, I'll try.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Snow-i
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Sep 15, 2017, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm fine with that, though I wonder how much it will actually help, in light of all the antagonism being hurled by other members over simply questioning the system. In this very thread I got an official warning over asking someone to "STFU", after I was deliberately trolled and then called an asshole.

Once a person becomes accustomed to using abuse as a way of trying to solve their own issues, getting them to stop is almost impossible, especially when they have a ready tool at their disposal once they get the reaction they were hoping for. But yeah, I'll try.
With any luck, the message about consistency in applying infractions was heard, and we can leave this one to the mods. If infractions are the effective way out of this, we should see that behavior change.
     
analogika
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Sep 16, 2017, 08:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm fine with that, though I wonder how much it will actually help, in light of all the antagonism being hurled by other members over simply questioning the system. In this very thread I got an official warning over asking someone to "STFU", after I was deliberately trolled and then called an asshole.

Once a person becomes accustomed to using abuse as a way of trying to solve their own issues, getting them to stop is almost impossible, especially when they have a ready tool at their disposal once they get the reaction they were hoping for. But yeah, I'll try.
You actually seem to believe that you are the victim of power-hungry mods arbitrarily using a system of punishment to **** you over because they had it in for you, rather than that you were just being an asshole and happened to trigger a well-proven decades-old system in a manner that took you by surprise.

Having been here for quite long, knowing the system, the mods, and you, I'm going to reiterate: everything that needed to be said in this thread has been said by Glen and Oreo.
     
subego  (op)
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Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Sep 16, 2017, 11:34 AM
 
The moderator response in this thread has been cagey, inconsistent, and appears post hoc.

If I didn't think these types of things could happen for legit reasons, I would have walked already.

I'm still here, so my opinion should be easily divined, but my opinion is despite this thread, not because of it.
     
ghporter
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Sep 16, 2017, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The moderator response in this thread has been cagey, inconsistent, and appears post hoc.

If I didn't think these types of things could happen for legit reasons, I would have walked already.

I'm still here, so my opinion should be easily divined, but my opinion is despite this thread, not because of it.
The moderator response has been inconsistent because when one of us says something, usually about a specific point someone made, others appear to expand the meaning of the response beyond what it was intended to address. It leads to incomplete or carefully worded posts that look "cagey" but are not intentionally so.

As a matter of policy, we have always avoided discussing one person's infractions with other people. It's a management rule: "praise in public, criticize in private." There is a management movement lately to point out that sometimes this is counterproductive. Maybe this is one of those times.

As a manager, I have never been comfortable in public with more than calling someone over to discuss improvement opportunities. Perhaps that's just me being queasy. But I certainly have never liked having my own boss tell the whole office how I screwed up, so that's my background.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
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