Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Awesome 1GB RAM Deal!!

Awesome 1GB RAM Deal!! (Page 2)
Thread Tools
mangotango
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 29, 2004, 04:13 PM
 
just ordered with an american address. Should actualy receive it before my powerbook. Just to note, the sales guy said there is only 11 left....
     
hldan
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 29, 2004, 04:25 PM
 
Originally posted by nycdunz:
still nobody has really answered my question, will this work in my rev a powerbook 17" if i by 2 of these? cause i heard the frst slot has to be a specific brand of memory? Or is this untrue? please help. right now my powerbook only has 1 512mb stick... i wanna max it out to 2gb, is this possible with this ram? and where does this ship from? Wonder how long it will take to get to TX? I see that a few states liisted TAX, and TX is one of em, so I guess they must ship this out locally depending on where you from? If thats true, them I guess it would take not even 1 day to get here, since i live in the same city as Fry's in TX...
You can put both 1GB modules in each slot for a total of 2GB on Rev A 17" Powerbook. It's always been in the PDF specs on Apple's web page but it's not supported. If a hardware issue happens as a result of putting more than 1GB of ram in the computer then it will void whatever warranty you have and AppleCare may not cover it either.
I have read in other forums that people with Rev A 17" PB have sucessfully used 2GB of ram and have never had an issue.
iMac 24" 2.8 Ghz Core 2 Extreme
500GB HDD
4GB Ram
Proud new Owner!
     
wedgewood
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 29, 2004, 11:17 PM
 
Rev. A 17 inch powerbook can be maximized to 2GB memory. I had tested it with a pair of 1GB samsung memory modules.
1.33 GHz 12" powerbook, 1.25GB
     
Maayan
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Aug 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 12:04 AM
 
Dude. That's PC2700... that's crap slow. You're going to want 4000, at least (512MB for $70 here).
( Last edited by Maayan; Aug 30, 2004 at 09:50 PM. )
     
trimaniax
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 07:00 PM
 
Well, I was pleasantly surprised to find that my order had been shipped and waiting on my doorstep. I installed the RAM into my 12" Rev. C Powerbook and it is working so far. The biggest benefit? Quicksilver now opens instantly no matter how many programs I have running which is worth the purchase price itself. Also, the Microsoft Office apps open MUCH quicker now. I originally just had the stock 256MB of RAM.

Thanks again for posting this.
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 10:11 PM
 
God damn it. I ordered next day shipping and they said it didn't ship because they couldn't verify my phone number.

So it's been three days and NOW it's shipping, and they won't give me a refund on my shipping either.

I didn't know the phone number was required?!

Sigh.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 30, 2004, 10:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Maayan:
Dude. That's PC2700... that's crap slow. You're going to want 4000, at least (512MB for $70 here).
These are 1GB SO-DIMM modules, not 512MB 184 pin SDRAM.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
chrisx
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 06:40 AM
 
Just ordered one. I was tempted to get 2 and just max out my 15", lol.

I currently have two 256Mb sticks in my PB. Everything should work out if I take one out and have 1.25Gb of RAM, right?

Also, would the 256Mb RAM I take out of my Mac be usable in PC laptops? (I don't have any other laptops, but no one else I know has Mac stuff -- boo to them -- and I'll probably be giving it to someone).

Thanks in advance for any answers.

Oh yeah, if anyone is thinking about ordering: the total came out to be a couple cents below $170 for my order in California. (Had 2nd day shipping selected, and tax was a little over $12)
     
chabig
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 07:36 AM
 
Originally posted by nycdunz:
still nobody has really answered my question, will this work in my rev a powerbook 17" if i by 2 of these? cause i heard the frst slot has to be a specific brand of memory?
This will work (confidence =95%) but you won't know for sure unless you buy one. Don't worry about the brand. I don't think computer designers could even build a logic board that required a specific brand. The computer has no way to tell.

Chris
     
AndrewP
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 09:25 AM
 
CRASH!!!!!!

When I woke my 15" PB from sleep this morning it kernel panic'd. The system hasn't been shut down since Friday of last week when I installed the memory. Other than this there have been no issues.

When I put it to sleep last night Safari, Thunderbird, and a couple of menubar applets were running.

I've had kernel panics in the past on this system, but they have been few and far between. I'm really hoping that his is just an anomaly, but needless to say, I'm keeping an eye on the return date.

Just FYI...
     
torifile
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 10:01 AM
 
Got mine. I haven't had a chance to test the sleep thing but I'll try it now.....

I'm back. Nothing so far....

Damn this machine is fast with some RAM.
     
AndrewP
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 10:07 AM
 
Originally posted by AndrewP:
CRASH!!!!!!

When I woke my 15" PB from sleep this morning it kernel panic'd. The system hasn't been shut down since Friday of last week when I installed the memory. Other than this there have been no issues.

When I put it to sleep last night Safari, Thunderbird, and a couple of menubar applets were running.

I've had kernel panics in the past on this system, but they have been few and far between. I'm really hoping that his is just an anomaly, but needless to say, I'm keeping an eye on the return date.

Just FYI...
Just to note.... I've put the system to sleep and woken it up probably 50 times before it died this one time.
     
iREZ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Los Angeles of the East
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 02:09 PM
 
Got it installed it on my Rev B 12" 1GHz, and so far so good. Haven't ran a hardware cd yet (gotta check that out during my lunch break but here's hoping that it stays like this. In and out of sleep 5 times and no problem, and no problem with my Airport reception either. Seems like a good deal to me. Will post more info later.
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 04:03 PM
 
Mine arrived today. Just installed it. So far so good. 1.25GB of RAM.

Weeee! Photoshop CS is really nice now. Very noticeable difference from 512MB.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
iREZ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Los Angeles of the East
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 05:19 PM
 
Fully passed the Hardware CD, and not one kernel panic yet. I am sooo pumped that everything went well with this decision.
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
nycdunz
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 08:34 PM
 
cant wait to get mines, i also ordered, got myself 2, gonna max out my rev 17" powerbook... Awesome price! Can't wait to see how panther runs with this much RAM...
     
azdude  (op)
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 10:17 PM
 
Got mine!

No problems... Everything is snappier! Love it... awesome deal.

Should have bought 2... But I'm not a SUPER-heavy user... So I'm satisfied with this.

Who needs a 256 stick??
17" 2.33GHz C2D MacBook Pro / 320GB / 2GB
     
Synotic
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 10:45 PM
 
I need a Phillips 00 Screwdriver right? I'm about to order this. Is that good?
     
anamexis
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 10:48 PM
 
I believe its Phillips #1. Check the Apple Service Manual to check this.
     
tungtied07
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Leawood, KS
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 10:49 PM
 
Yeah, memory makes a big difference in performance. My PB G4 15in has 1.5gb of RAM and it opens apps and feels "snappier" than before when it had less RAM.
Thats a great deal for that RAM, for $149... My CTO PB G5 was meant to have 512mb of RAM, but ended up being config with a 1GB of RAM (1stick) with no extra charges from apple? probably a mistake lol


P.S. azdude, you might want to update your machine's specs on the bottom of your post
15" PowerBook 1.5GHz (CTO): SuperDrive, 5400rpm 80GB 16mb Cache, 1.5GB RAM/Backlit Keyboard/Radeon 9700 128MB/MacOS X 10.4.2
     
Synotic
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 31, 2004, 11:12 PM
 
Originally posted by anamexis:
I believe its Phillips #1. Check the Apple Service Manual to check this.
I just checked, and it says size 00
     
azdude  (op)
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 12:38 AM
 
Originally posted by tungtied07:
P.S. azdude, you might want to update your machine's specs on the bottom of your post
Great! Thx.
17" 2.33GHz C2D MacBook Pro / 320GB / 2GB
     
Guy Kuo
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 01:11 AM
 
I ordered one. Once it arrives I'll put it through my overnight sleep test. The two incompatible SODIMMS I purchased when I first got my PB12 1 GHz didn't cause problems with short sleeps, but sleeping overnight would result in either a frozen machine or a kernel panic within a few minutes of wake up. Again, for emphasis, both of those incompatible sodimms PASSED the Apple hardware test.

Have my fingers crossed and I'll be sure to back up my drive before giving it a go. It IS a great deal, but it also needs to be rock solid to be usable here.
     
Lancer409
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Semi Posting Retirement *ReJoice!*
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 03:29 AM
 
mine coming in soon .. hoping my 12 revc will come out without any problems

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
     
torifile
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 08:19 AM
 
About 10 sleeps (one overnight) and an Apple Hardware Test later, things are still going smoothly. So far this has been great!
     
rcr
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: NYC NY USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 10:44 AM
 
Price seems to have been lowered to $139.99. This is starting to look "too good to be true".


rcr
     
iREZ
Professional Poster
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Los Angeles of the East
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 11:22 AM
 
Holy crappola, that's a steal. It's almost what crucial charges for 512MB and about the same for the 512MB chip that I bought for a 300MHz iBook just last week. After a whole night of sleep, still no kernel panics or any other issues .
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
nycdunz
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 11:23 AM
 
ok mine is spose to arrive today by DHL, i chose next day.. and on DHL site it says delivered by 10:30 am, its now 10:22am...

will they knock on my door or just deliver it into my mailbox? My mailbox requires a key though...

sigh I hope i get this soon... does it require signature?
     
azdude  (op)
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 11:31 AM
 
Originally posted by nycdunz:
sigh I hope i get this soon... does it require signature?
Mine didn't.

It shipped in a (hugely oversized) box, and was left on my porch.

ATTN: Yes, the price dropped another $10. Amazing!
17" 2.33GHz C2D MacBook Pro / 320GB / 2GB
     
AuPhalanx
Forum Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 12:12 PM
 
I just ordered mine today. I will let y'all know how it goes when I get it. So far, the posts from different boards and forums are indicating that the RAM is great. I am psyched!

Have fun... Tony.
     
rcr
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: NYC NY USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 12:17 PM
 
Originally posted by AuPhalanx:
So far, the posts from different boards and forums are indicating that the RAM is great. I am psyched!
AuPhalanx: Any chance you could post links to others forums/threads which are discussing this RAM?


Thanks
rcr
     
nycdunz
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 12:57 PM
 
omg i just got my 2gb of ram! and installed it, wow what a difference!!! everything is working well, prays so far this is a steal at this price!! I maxed out my powerbook and damn everything is so damn nice now... This is how OS X should be! Everybody jump on this, you won't regret it. I did some sleep tests and all is well, i'm at work now and lets see how this ram puts up through out my day at work... since i use my laptop extensively for graphic designs... will post later today how it holds up... so far so good!
     
angelmb
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Automatic
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 12:57 PM
 
why can�t those guys serve it overseas? just drop it inside a bottle to the Atlantic sea!
     
AuPhalanx
Forum Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 02:20 PM
 
Originally posted by rcr:
AuPhalanx: Any chance you could post links to others forums/threads which are discussing this RAM?


Thanks
rcr
rcr!

Sure!

RAM deal discussion on MacRumors

There is a fellow there who posted a good explanation of why this is a good deal and why generic RAM should (and usualy does) work fine and compares well with the RAM sold by Apple and Crucial. Here's his post:

Originally Posted by BornAgainMac

149 is too much for memory if it doesn't work or fails and you have to deal with returning it within the 1 year warranty. $479 is too much for memory period. If someone sells memory for $1,300, does it mean it's better than Crucial's memory?


You're right. I've always wondered the same thing, but wasn't knowledgeable enough to question the people who told me to buy Crucial when I switched. I had generic RAM in my PC, and never had a problem. I didn't even know it mattered until people here made a big huff and puff about it. Most people don't even know why they're telling you to buy from Crucial, but since they read other posts here that always recommend Crucial, they'll tell you that "you need to get Crucial because they're great!!" Its a snowball effect.

Quality differences: will cheap RAM break on contact? No. Will it work? Yes. Crucial makes faulty RAM sometimes, so if cheap RAM doesn't work, exchange it. Will Crucial offer better performance and avoid kernel panics? Wait, but how much better will the performance be? A 1GB stick from Crucial may be 8% better than one from OWC, but surely two 1GB sticks of OWC RAM will offer wicked performance when compared to 1 stick of 1GB Crucial RAM. They cost the same.

Although I still recommend it to N00bs, I'm buying my 1GB stick of PB RAM at OWC. I'm never buying from Crucial again. There's not enough of a difference in performance and reliability to pay an extra $200 on top of the $260 you're already paying.

I hope this helps some folks. Groovy!

Have fun... Tony.
     
Lancer409
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Semi Posting Retirement *ReJoice!*
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 02:27 PM
 
should be getting mine today =P

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
     
kastegir
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 02:30 PM
 
I got mine with 2 day delivery and it's working great.

The ram stick is labeled as CL2.5 and the bump from 768MB to 1.25GB is noticeable. I do a lot with VPC and it's working great.

Just another data point.
     
muchachotron
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
anyone know if the outpost ram is "stacked" (are there chips stacked on top of each other on the dimm, or are they all single-layer)? cheaper ram is usually stacked, as it is a cheaper process to produce it. judging from the 1gb pictures and the current 512 dimm i have from them, i think that the owc ram is non-stacked (though i'm not sure about the lge brand, as there is no picture). it also has a lifetime warranty.

i'm not knowledgeable enough to explain why, but it is my understanding that stacked ram is electrically better for your machine and is less likely to sh*t the bed, and also is less problematic heat wise. all of this is of course important in the slim workings of a powerbook. i also think i've heard of some software/games not functioning well with stacked ram.

any info on this? i'm really tempted to get this outpost ram but the price is really making me skeptical.

- d
     
azdude  (op)
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 03:36 PM
 
Assuming that stacked-ness is visible, I'll say no.

The SO-DIMM, by the way, does NOT look like the picture on Outpost's site... It looks more like this one...:


OUTPOST STICK - REAL


OUTPOST STICK - WEBSITE

That is, the chips are NOT long and rectangular as on the website, but rather are square and small (2x as many). Memory chip pins are not visible on the real stick, as well.
17" 2.33GHz C2D MacBook Pro / 320GB / 2GB
     
muchachotron
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 03:47 PM
 
ooh, that looks promising then! can anyone else who has purchased this ram confirm that it looks like the one azdude has pictured here? i just want to make sure there is no variation in what is actually being sold.

thanks azdude.

- d
     
Macfreak7
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Macfreak7
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 03:50 PM
 
They shaved off another 10 bucks?

Anyway, seems to be working fine here after installation.
     
AndrewP
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 03:56 PM
 
Originally posted by muchachotron:
ooh, that looks promising then! can anyone else who has purchased this ram confirm that it looks like the one azdude has pictured here? i just want to make sure there is no variation in what is actually being sold.

thanks azdude.

- d
Mine (both sticks) are exactly the same as the "real" picture posted by azdude. Also note that both sides of the DIMM are identical.
     
Stradlater
Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Off the Tobakoff
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 04:04 PM
 
Whoops! Ordered it!

How is overnight shipping only about $3 more than ground?
"You rise," he said, "like Aurora."
     
nycdunz
Senior User
Join Date: Aug 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 05:18 PM
 
yup my ram is the same as in the pic azdude posted... has a sticker that says Legacy on it, installed mine today in my rev a 17" powerbook... maxed it out to 2gb, been using my laptop at work to do graphic designs all day straight and not a single problem. This is definetly worth it!
     
Synotic
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 1, 2004, 06:11 PM
 
For anyone that cares...






I know I'll sound like an idiot but just in case this helps someone else out... originally I wasn't able to properly seat the memory chip.. I think I might of simply 'put it in' at a 45� angle and then tried to push it in... You should be able to fit it into the connectors properly at that angle and then push it down... the pressure of the memory chip going down will force the metal tabs to slide apart and then it should be properly seated.

Now that everything is going well, it seems like the RAM is working great I've put it to sleep.. restarted and shut down a couple times (once to reset the PMU, for an earlier issue unrelated to the RAM). It seems like the RAM is good so far.
     
olePigeon
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 2, 2004, 01:01 AM
 
Originally posted by kastegir:
I got mine with 2 day delivery and it's working great.

The ram stick is labeled as CL2.5 and the bump from 768MB to 1.25GB is noticeable. I do a lot with VPC and it's working great.
Just wondering... how did you go from 768 to only 1.25? Seems to me that if you had a 256 and a 512, you'd take the 256 out and have 1.5GB instead of only 1.25GB.
"…I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than
you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods,
you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
MrForgetable
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: New York City, NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 2, 2004, 01:03 AM
 
Originally posted by olePigeon:
Just wondering... how did you go from 768 to only 1.25? Seems to me that if you had a 256 and a 512, you'd take the 256 out and have 1.5GB instead of only 1.25GB.
maybe he has a 12 inch powerbook because the 256MB is built-in. he would have no other choice but to replace the 512.
iamwhor3hay
     
zengravy
Forum Regular
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: form
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 2, 2004, 12:16 PM
 
Just wanted to report in. Bought two of these puppies for my 1.5GHz. 17". So far, everything is running smoothly and I have yet to detect any problems whatsoever.

Running at 2GB of RAM is amazing. I'm really pissed that I waited this long to upgrade!
--
you cannot enter a place that you never left.
     
indigo
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 2, 2004, 01:49 PM
 
Can any who has successfully installed one of these give me a hand. I've got a 15 inch Al book. The manual says that you should use a 00 phillips head, but the Apple support site says to use a 0 phillips head. I bought a 00 phillips head but it doesn't seem to fit. What size screwdriver have others used?
Thanks!
     
azdude  (op)
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 2, 2004, 01:49 PM
 
Originally posted by zengravy:
Running at 2GB of RAM is amazing. I'm really pissed that I waited this long to upgrade!
Really? You should be grinning ear-to-ear that you were able to do so at half price!
17" 2.33GHz C2D MacBook Pro / 320GB / 2GB
     
angelmb
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Automatic
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Sep 2, 2004, 02:23 PM
 
Eureka ! I ordered one module via a friend from New York !
     
 
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:13 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,