[bkatran]

i love meat more than anything in the world but i really want to try and become a vegetarian...at least for a month.

any vegetarians out there got any advice?

[Zimphire]

I am a vegetarian because I really really hate plants.

[Spliff]

Originally posted by bkatran:
i love meat more than anything in the world but i really want to try and become a vegetarian...at least for a month.

any vegetarians out there got any advice?

The New Becoming Vegetarian

This excellent book will get you started in the right direction.

[Macfreak7]

wow, i didn't know you need a book to become vegetarian.
damn i guess i should write a book on that too, make some quick $$$

[mishap]

Mostly vegetarian....no way i would give up meat. So, no.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally posted by bkatran:
i love meat more than anything in the world but i really want to try and become a vegetarian...at least for a month. [/B]

I love macs more than anything in the world but I really want to try and become a wintel-user.

Any drones got any advice?

[as2]

Being a vegy is just silly... why else would god have created cows.

Mmm.. Give me a nice big steak, cooked blue anyday!

Disclaimer - I know cow's can be used for milk but that's not the point. If you're going to be anal about it substitute cow for pig, but a nice big rasher of bacon doesn't have the same ring to it.

[NYCFarmboy]

If you are going to do it just for a week, go whole hog and go Vegan.

No milk, no cheese, no eggs, no jell-o, no non-dairy creamer.

I was in a grocery store here in NYC last week and this lady was in front of me with 9 bags of rice cakes. Nothing else. 9 big bags of rice cakes.

She looked like a ghost, white as a sheet, you could see her blood veins all over her showing thru her skin, and had dark circles under her eyes. She was a vision of walking death.

She was about 5'10' and weighed about 70 lbs, looked like she was just went thru 8 years in a concentration camp.

But, maybe she was happy finding meaning in her life by denying herself nutrition. Veganism is a religion so maybe there is some sort of religious epiphany that comes with self-starvation/self denial that makes you at peace with yourself.

I don't know what she did in life that was so bad that she has to repent by being a Vegan, but obviously it was pretty sad.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am a vegetarian because I really really hate plants.

[shmerek]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
If you are going to do it just for a week, go whole hog and go Vegan.

No milk, no cheese, no eggs, no jell-o, no non-dairy creamer.

I was in a grocery store here in NYC last week and this lady was in front of me with 9 bags of rice cakes. Nothing else. 9 big bags of rice cakes.

She looked like a ghost, white as a sheet, you could see her blood veins all over her showing thru her skin, and had dark circles under her eyes. She was a vision of walking death.

She was about 5'10' and weighed about 70 lbs, looked like she was just went thru 8 years in a concentration camp.

But, maybe she was happy finding meaning in her life by denying herself nutrition. Veganism is a religion so maybe there is some sort of religious epiphany that comes with self-starvation/self denial that makes you at peace with yourself.

I don't know what she did in life that was so bad that she has to repent by being a Vegan, but obviously it was pretty sad.

Blah Blah When ever there is a thread about vegetarians you have to come in with some useless crap, give it up already.

[wdlove]

My mother used to say that if there is ever a born vegertarian, I was very close. I would always start eating my vegetables first. She would have to push me to eat the meat. Still start with my vegetables first. I like just about any kind of vegetable!

[BasketofPuppies]

Does that include carrots?

[fxbezak]

I was wondering about vegans...

Can Vegans breathe? Because well all living beings breathe C02 wich is then coverted to 02 by trees and such. But my question is that since the produced 02 still has some molecules that were breathed by animals can they technically breathe it? Or does being a vegan not apply to molecules?

[shmerek]

Originally posted by fxbezak:
I was wondering about vegans...

Can Vegans breathe? Because well all living beings breathe C02 wich is then coverted to 02 by trees and such. But my question is that since the produced 02 still has some molecules that were breathed by animals can they technically breathe it? Or does being a vegan not apply to molecules?

[scaught]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
If you are going to do it just for a week, go whole hog and go Vegan.

No milk, no cheese, no eggs, no jell-o, no non-dairy creamer.

I was in a grocery store here in NYC last week and this lady was in front of me with 9 bags of rice cakes. Nothing else. 9 big bags of rice cakes.

She looked like a ghost, white as a sheet, you could see her blood veins all over her showing thru her skin, and had dark circles under her eyes. She was a vision of walking death.

She was about 5'10' and weighed about 70 lbs, looked like she was just went thru 8 years in a concentration camp.

But, maybe she was happy finding meaning in her life by denying herself nutrition. Veganism is a religion so maybe there is some sort of religious epiphany that comes with self-starvation/self denial that makes you at peace with yourself.

I don't know what she did in life that was so bad that she has to repent by being a Vegan, but obviously it was pretty sad.

not nearly as sad as this post.

[mike one]

Originally posted by bkatran:
i love meat more than anything in the world but i really want to try and become a vegetarian...at least for a month.

any vegetarians out there got any advice?

bkatran.

i've been vegan for over 10 years, if you need any advice, need something to read, need some cooking recipes, drop me a PM or an email, and we can have a chat.

when i was in high sCOOL i decided to try being vegetarian for 1 week, by the time the week was over, it was no big deal, so i never went back. 2 months later i was vegan.

i know you might not be interested in veganism, which is totally understandable, totally cool, but if you want to talk vegetarianism, 1on1 you know what to do.

[mike one]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:

Veganism is a religion so maybe there is some sort of religious epiphany that comes with self-starvation/self denial that makes you at peace with yourself.

veganism isn't a religion. i hope you were joking and not that ig'nant.

[NYCFarmboy]

From the New York Post
Vegan Couple Starved Toddler, Cops Say


Tuesday, April 30, 2002
By Jessie Graham

NEW YORK_�_A vegan couple in New York City were busted for starving their baby daughter � by denying her breast milk and formula, feeding her only nuts, fruits and vegetables, and allegedly failing to get her medical help for severe malnutrition._
Joseph and Silva Swinton, both 31, were arrested Friday and charged with reckless endangerment and endangering the welfare of a child for failing to properly feed and care for their baby, Ice._


The Swintons, who are being held in lieu of $20,000 bail, face up to seven years in prison if convicted._

Sixteen-month-old Ice Swinton weighed only 10 pounds, looked like a 2- or 3-month-old and was half the normal weight of a child her age when authorities discovered her close to death last November._

EMS workers rushed Ice to from her Queens home to Long Island Jewish Hospital, where doctors diagnosed her with developmental problems, a distended abdomen, fractured bones, a vitamin deficiency called rickets and a lung disorder � all caused by malnutrition, authorities said._


*********************
The Swintons, who say they approach veganism as a religion, fed the child a diet of "ground nuts, fresh-squeezed fruit juices, herbal tea, beans, cod liver oil and flax seed oil," a complaint said._
**********************

Even when doctors told the couple their baby was on the brink of death in November, both parents insisted "there was nothing wrong" and were resistant to treatment, the complaint said._
After a four-month hospital stay, the New York City Administration for Children's Services placed the baby in a foster home._

Several months on a healthy diet have helped the 20-month-old to achieve the functions of a 10- to 12-month-old baby, but the child is still struggling, authorities said._

Warren Silverman, a lawyer representing the mother, questioned why there was such a long delay to file charges._

"If Long Island Jewish Hospital at that time thought that something was amiss, why wasn't something done right away?" he asked._The Swintons have been allowed supervised visits with their daughter � but ACS has asked that a judge order them stopped after the father said he thought the child was getting "chubby," sources said._

Neighbor Toyin Savage said she was "shocked."_ Another neighbor said she saw the baby recently._
"I asked how old she was and they said, 'Almost a year.' She looked very small. They said she was a vegetarian � I didn't think about it at the time."_

��������������
my thoughts..I know this is a sad story and apoligize for having to be so graphic but I think people need to realize the harm Veganizm does, especially to children.

[daimoni]

.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Totally.

In a world of ass clowns... NYCFarmboy take the biscuit.

Wait a sec. That's not a biscuit. That's... poop!

BBC News Friday, 14 September, 2001, 17:34 GMT 18:34 UK
Baby death parents spared jail



Garabet Manuelyan at the Old Bailey on Friday








The parents of a nine-month-old girl who died after being fed a fruit-based diet have been spared a jail sentence.

Areni Manuelyan died of a chest infection, brought on by malnutrition in July 2000 weighing just eleven and a half pounds, six pounds less than she should have.

At her post mortem she was found to be markedly thin, dehydrated and to have severe pneumonia - all of which could be linked to malnutrition.

At their trial, her parents, Garabet and Hazmik Manuelyan, both 45, pleaded guilty to child cruelty.

That would normally have resulted in a prison sentence.









You have been punished and will continue to be punished by the consequences of your actions


Judge David Paget
But at the Old Bailey on Friday, Judge David Paget said what had happened to the family was punishment enough.

The Armenian couple, from Staines, Surrey, described as "loving but misguided" in court, were placed under a community rehabilitation order for three years.

Mrs Manuelyan still sleeps on the blanket that last held Areni.

She was described by Linda Strudwick who was defending her as "a mother who cared passionately for her children. Perhaps she cared too much."

The couple's two other children have been taken into care.

Judge Paget said: "This is a wholly exceptional and tragic case.

"You have been punished and will continue to be punished by the consequences of your actions."

Concerns

The couple were vegans, but in 1996 switched to a fruitarian diet consisting of raw vegetables fruit and nuts.

After Areni's birth on 8 September 1999, the family saw a paediatrician who said the baby was not developing properly, and that her mother's breastmilk was nutritionally deficient.

Other doctors and social workers warned against the diet.

But the court was told the couple had shown a "stubborn refusal", and would not follow the advice.

Later, the family went to live on a vegetarian commune in Spain, where they believed Areni's Vitamin D deficiency would be cured by sunlight.

The couple believed all Areni needed was "sunshine and fruit".

They returned to the UK in July 2000 when Areni became seriously ill.

A doctor who the couple went to see, who specialised in oxygen therapy, told Areni's parents she needed to be taken to hospital immediately.

But Mr Manuelyan, a bus driver, was said to be worried about the chemicals his daughter may be treated with, and the couple ignored the advice.

On July 5, 2000, an ambulance was called to the family home because Areni had stopped breathing. She was taken to hospital and later certified dead.

A nutritionist said even if she had been taken to hospital the day before her death, she could have survived.

'Ill-advised'

Nutritionists say a fruitarian, or fruit-only diet, is completely ill-advised for such a small child.

They add that even adults need to be careful not to stick to a fruit-only diet for too long.

Catherine Collins, a spokeswoman for the British Dietetic Association, (BDA) said some fruitarians did eat raw vegetables or pulses.

But she said: "The main problem for a nine-month old child is that they need a very high calorie to weight intake."

Without that, she said babies of that age - and younger - would not have the fuel they need for muscle growth, organ growth and brain development.

They would miss out on proteins, iron, calcium, essential fatty acids and raw fibre, which will all affect their development.

BDF paediatric dietician Nicole Dos Santos said babies would also need the fat and nutrients they would receive from breast or bottle milk, and it was important babies received one or the other.

She said a fruit-only diet was unsuitable for a child. "This is not a diet a child should be put on."

[ism]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:

It is a good a reason as any. My mate and I are both veggie but have completely different reasons and opinions about it.

Anyway on to something useful, pages like this are pretty useful: Stumbling blocks

Plus the articles posted about that fruitarian couple and their baby: There are as many stupid veggies as there are stupid meat eaters. The article doesn't prove much at all.

[osiris]

I'm a vegetarian, but I'm not a walking ghost.
Many vegetarians ignore their protein/iron/vitamin requirements and become 'rice-cake eating sacks of bones' - these idiots don't know how to eat properly and will likely die an untimely death due to malnutrition. Personally I can't stand rice cakes, so maybe I'm better off.

But that baby story is sad, didn't the mother even think of breast feeding the kid? A fruit only diet fer crissake? At least some protein rich/fatty Soy milk would have helped + there are many other options, all of which are vegan including vegan baby food.

The parents are morons for not thinking.

[NYCFarmboy]

Originally posted by ism:
It is a good a reason as any. My mate and I are both veggie but have completely different reasons and opinions about it.

Anyway on to something useful, pages like this are pretty useful: Stumbling blocks

Plus the articles posted about that fruitarian couple and their baby: There are as many stupid veggies as there are stupid meat eaters. The article doesn't prove much at all.

OK...I agree with that

I'm done on this thread.

I'm off to have a banana.

hugs & love to all and I do mean that. We are all mac users..so at least that part of us is wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mike one]

Originally posted by NYCFarmboy:
BBC News Friday, 14 September, 2001, 17:34 GMT 18:34 UK
Baby death parents spared jail


"This is not a diet a child should be put on."

if you are so stupid to believe that the media portrays vegans accurately then you my friend are a mindless sheep. i don't think that is the case, b.t.w.

look at any minority group, look at how the media portrays ALL of them, and then ask yourself if one is a proper reflection of the other.

racial minorities being the best example.

child abuse & stupid parents are not a function of whether or not someone is vegan.


the media (i.e. corporate america's propaganda machine) will only ever report stories positively that fall within corporate america's party politic, corporate america in this case includes the meat and dairy industries. so these great sensationalist stories, while tragic, are used to push an agenda.

please please don't think for one second that one story, or two stories are representative of a whole "sub"population of people.

rant ends here.

[mchladek]

And now back on topic so we can help bkatran :

I've been a vegetarian for a little over two years now. Like mike one I just decided to see if I could give up meat for one week and it wasn't a problem so I decided to just continue it till the desire to eat meat returned (which it never has in the slightest bit). I am beginning to take an interest in veganism although it'll probably be quite a while before that happens. I still consider eggs an important protein source for me and I'm still tackling my addiction to butter and cheese Although my milk product consumption has definitely lessened within the last couple of months.

As far as advice I would recommend eating a very well balanced diet. I sometimes find myself falling into the carb trap of simply eating rice, grains, cereals for all my meals and neglecting my fruits and veggies. Also you have to watch your protein intake since you won't have the benefit of getting complete proteins from meat and instead will have to rely on incomplete proteins. Some of my favorite protein sources include: soy milk, beans, lentils, peanut butter, nuts, eggs, and of course tofu. I wasn't a big fan of tofu when I first tried it sense it has such a subtle taste and very different texture. But now I absolutely love it. It's probably one of my favorite foods.

So that's my advice. Good luck. I know I have certainly enjoyed the benefits of vegetarianism.

[nonhuman]

I just don't get the whole vegetarian/vegan thing. When I go home, I basically go vegetarian because there's no meat in the house (except fish, most of which I don't like in the way it's prepared...). After about a week, I would kill for a nice, bloody steak. I just like meat too much to give it up, and this is coming from someone who thinks it's morally questionable to own pets, let alone kill animals for food.

But if you want to go vegie, more power too you. And more meat to me!

[mike one]

Originally posted by mchladek:

Also you have to watch your protein intake since you won't have the benefit of getting complete proteins from meat and instead will have to rely on incomplete proteins. Some of my favorite protein sources include: soy milk, beans, lentils, peanut butter, nuts, eggs, and of course tofu.

1. tofu isn't all that exciting, but if you get creative with it, it can rock. you should try to find some seitan (also called wheat gluten) it is a great source of protein, with good texture and flavor, very meat-like.

2. do eat a balanced diet, seriously, but this applies to everyone, not just vegetarians. eat a good vareity of things and you will be fine.

3. don't worry about trying to complement proteins, a lot of that myth has been dispelled. also soy beans contain all 8 essential amino acids, so in fact it is a complete protein. whole grains, like wheat are also a good source of protein. again if you are eating a vareity of foods you will have a good stock of amino acids in your body and when it is time to build enzymes, peptides, and muscle your body will be well equipped to do so.

4. read, read something on vegetarianism (library is a good start), or vegetarian nutrition. make sure you know what you're getting into, and why.

recommendation: "diet for a new america" by john robbins, that gives and ethical, health, and environmental perspective of vegetarianism. it is an EASY read.

Originally posted by nonhuman:

QUOTE: But if you want to go vegie, more power too you. And more meat to me!

[philzilla]

Originally posted by bkatran:
any vegetarians out there got any advice?

yes: don't eat meat.

[BasketofPuppies]

I think we should all become carnivores so that the plants can multiply and take their revenge on Zimphire.

[as2]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
I think we should all become carnivores so that the plants can multiply and take their revenge on Zimphire.

Might help global warming too...

less cows = less methane to damage ozone
more plants = more conversion of CO2 to Oxygen

[bstone]

Veggie right here. I don't like eating them moo moos.