[besson3c]

Originally posted by eScrib:
This is great news... BUT


I just shelled out my hard earned money for a 12" PB that I haven't even had in my hands for a WEEK, and Apple is saying I gotta pay $129 to upgrade???

What kind of CRAP is that!!!???

These kinds of posts occur everytime Apple releases something new.

Just what *are* they supposed to do to make everybody happy? If they make Panther free for everybody who bought a Mac this year, last year's Mac users will be complaining.

There will be complaints about Panther not working on beige G3s (there already have been).

Please recognize that there is nothing Apple can do in this regard that will make everybody universally happy.

[CPU_Angel]

I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't mind if they said anyone that bought a mac in october, would get a discount at least.

[lacrymology]

Originally posted by eScrib:
What kind of CRAP is that!!!???

Uhhhhhh, typical crap?

-m

[AssassyN]

Originally posted by CPU_Angel:
I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't mind if they said anyone that bought a mac in october, would get a discount at least.

What about those who bought one on the last day of Sept.? It'd go on and on...

[mbperk]

Besides the Apple Store's special event (closest store to me is 1.5 hours away) at 8pm. Is it going to be possible to go to Compusa or other authorized Apple Reseller and buy it the 24th before 8pm? Or if I purchase from Apple.com will it be delivered before 8pm that day? The store states delivery for PM on the 24th.

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by eevyl:
Yes, of course it includes VAT. But Apple is doing a one-on-one currency exchange.

But using today exchange rate, my maths tell me (rounding up):

129 US Dollars = 110 Euros

Using my country for VAT (Spain):

110 Euros + VAT (16%) = 128 Euros

So Apple is gaining a 21 extra Euros for every Panther purchase in Spain.

Uh... Apple doesn't get to keep the VAT. It's a tax! Tax goes to the gov't.

[wadesworld]

This is great news... BUT


I just shelled out my hard earned money for a 12" PB that I haven't even had in my hands for a WEEK, and Apple is saying I gotta pay $129 to upgrade???

What kind of CRAP is that

Why did you run out and buy a new machine when you knew Panther was close to release and the upgrade policies had not been published yet?

While I can see why you're irritated, you really have nobody to blame but yourself.

Wade

[Agent69]

I hate to be mean but I'm tired off all the bitching going on. You know what OS came with your computer when your ordered it. Whining here won't change anything.

[Parky]

If you look at the pre-tax prices on the US and UK Apple stores you get the following :-

US (pre tax price) $129

UK (pre tax price) �84.26

If you use the current (tourist) exchange rate of 1.6 dollars to the pound, you get a pre-tax price in the UK of $134, ranging up to $139 if you use a low exchange rate.

That does not seem to bad a conversion to be honest, especially as we do get free shipping in the UK.

Ian

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Eriamjh:
Uh... Apple doesn't get to keep the VAT. It's a tax! Tax goes to the gov't.

I think his logic is: 149 EU - 128 EU = 21 EU. 128 is the price apple SHOULD have charged. They charge 149 and get an extra 21 EU.

[Eriamjh]

All G5 owners can get Panther for $19.95 if not included (even people who order today or even after 10/25 if Panther is not already included).

If you bought a computer yesterday, too bad. Sad, but true. Apple has always had this policy. We knew it was coming "soon". If your order hasn't shipped, then you are probably OK (because you can at least cancel and reorder and pay $19.95 or cancel, wait until Panther comes installed, then reorder).

Me? I'm ticked that 13 months after spending $129 on Jaguar I have to spend another $129 on Panther.

Not really...

Finally, the date is known. Now we can close all the "When will panther be released threads" and start new "Who ordered Panther" threads, then "Who got Panther" and "Who wears pink underwear while using panther" threads.... (At least in the louge).

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by Xeo:
I think his logic is: 149 EU - 128 EU = 21 EU. 128 is the price apple SHOULD have charged. They charge 149 and get an extra 21 EU.

If Apple is charging more in other countries, it doesn't mean that their costs are the same, but I get your point.

[bkatran]

i hope iget a free copy
(being an apple employee and all)

[Parky]

Apple are charging �149 on the French Apple Store, of which �24,42 is TVA (Tax).

That means Apple are charging (pre-tax) �124.58.

If you convert �124.58 to dollars you get a pre-tax price of $146. Which looks a little inflated, but does depend on the conversion rate used.

Of course they do have extra costs involved over and above the standard 'English' version.

If you want to compare prices you should always make sure you look for the pre-tax price. As a rule of thumb, Apple Store US show all the prices as pre-tax, where as the UK and other European stores show the price including tax.

It is only when you get to the actual order screen that you will see the full price including local and country taxes.

On OSX Apple seem to be getting it about right, on hardware the numbers can be significantly different.

Ian

[Bobby]

Originally posted by deebee:
Hi there,

Just a quick question: as I have recently purchased a G5 Dual I am entitled to the "upgrade". Is this a full copy of the software so I can perform a clean install or does it require Jaguar installed? I am hoping for the former as I prefer a clean slate.

Many thanks

Darren

Yes. ALL G5 systems get the upgrade regardless of their purchase date. You will need to send in one of the cupons you got with the computer along with a $20 check... Or something close to that...

[sanity assassin]

The pricing in the Uk is pretty funny, it's �99.01, that's a penny just over 99 quid.

Still can't believe that Panther costs under a hundred pounds.

[nobitacu]

Originally posted by starman:
Um....my 17" has one (three actually).

Mike

You should go and read the post in the Powerbook section. If what you said is true, than you might just be the only one in the world who bought a Powerbook before Oct. 8th, and be able to upgrade to Panther for $20. Get your facts right man, only the G5 has the $20 upgrade regardless of when you bought it. Unless of course you have some kind of connection with Apple for this kind of deal for your Powerbook.

Ming

[toconnor]

I don't mind paying (Apple has to make money right) but they should put those little upgrade coupons that's included with their S/W and H/W to use. I'd pay a nominal upgrade fee from Jag to Panther but to be asked to pay full retail once again is getting pretty old. This will be the 3rd Mac OS X I've purchased.


Todd

[songoku912]

Originally posted by AssassyN:
DOH! Scratch that last post...almost wasted ~$70...ADC members get it shipped to them free in their monthly mailing packets, right?

I was wondering about that myself actually. Will Panther be included in the monthly mailings?

[starman]

Originally posted by nobitacu:
You should go and read the post in the Powerbook section. If what you said is true, than you might just be the only one in the world who bought a Powerbook before Oct. 8th, and be able to upgrade to Panther for $20. Get your facts right man, only the G5 has the $20 upgrade regardless of when you bought it. Unless of course you have some kind of connection with Apple for this kind of deal for your Powerbook.

Ming

Ok, you don't know how to read.

I never said I can get it for $20, I said I have the PoP COUPONS.

Mike

[:dragonflypro:]

Why all this furor over the slightly higher price for non-US versions?

The fact that you get a localized OS, to any of 13 or more EU languages, that is above and beyond Apples 80%+ core market is just silly.

All that ain't free.

And there is more to is than just retail/VAT in the mix. Everything from storage, handling, labor and so on plays a factor in the price.

The EU market share is not large enough for Apple to say, 'heh, lets screw them out of a few bucks and make big profit.'

The nuances of the EU economy coupled with the added cost Apple incurs developing several localized versions are ultimately what determine the price.

I would actually bet, though I may be wrong, that Apple margins in the EU are lower that in the US.

[moki]

Originally posted by solitere:
At the American AppleStore it cost 129 Dollar. if we should convert today 149 Euro to dollar it would cost me 176 US dollar to buy Panther in Europe.

Is that with or without the rather massive VAT?

It's likely that the costs of actually getting product there and bringing it to market (with the various EU regulations and taxes) are the reason for the difference, not an arbitrary markup.

[nobitacu]

Originally posted by starman:
Ok, you don't know how to read.

I never said I can get it for $20, I said I have the PoP COUPONS.

Mike

yes, but that person I wrote back to was asking about the $20 deal, NOT what you are talking about. So maybe you're the one who read it wrong. The person was asking about if they will also get the Panther upgrade $20 discount coupon deal, I than answered no, they don't.

Ming

[janmc]

"Why all this furor over the slightly higher price for non-US versions?

The fact that you get a localized OS, to any of 13 or more EU languages, that is above and beyond Apples 80%+ core market is just silly.

All that ain't free."

I live in Ireland. We get do NOT get a localised OS - only the British or American one. It is very irritating having a British flag permanently on your screen.

So, where is the extra money going? A powerbook is substantially cheaper in the US... Educational discounts are more... Apple are either subsidising their American customers or ripping off their European ones.

[deebee]

Bobby,

thanks for the reply but I think you misunderstood my question. I need to know whether this "upgrade" is bootable from CD and able to perform a clean install or does it need to be installed over 10.2.7??

Many thanks

Darren

[TheIceMan]

deebee:
If it's similar to the Jaguar "upgrade" then the answer is no, you cannot boot from a CD on the upgrade disk. Only a "full" version of Panther will let you do a "clean install." Hope that helps.

[Simon X]

Originally posted by janmc:
[BI live in Ireland. We get do NOT get a localised OS - only the British or American one. It is very irritating having a British flag permanently on your screen.[/B]

I never thought about that. Pretty annoying. Someone should make a small app to allow users to customise the flag. Or, in the Pref Panel Apple should make the flag appear inside an image well to allow users to drop an image of their flag in there.

Any coders out there willing to give it a shot?

[Parky]

You don't need to anything to turn off the American flag other than unselect the USA keyboard in the keyboard control panel.

When you only have one keyboard layout selected the icon is removed.

Ian

[eScrib]

Originally posted by besson3c:
These kinds of posts occur everytime Apple releases something new.

Just what *are* they supposed to do to make everybody happy? If they make Panther free for everybody who bought a Mac this year, last year's Mac users will be complaining.

There will be complaints about Panther not working on beige G3s (there already have been).

Please recognize that there is nothing Apple can do in this regard that will make everybody universally happy.

Obviously, they have to cut it off somewhere.... But WHY are the G5 people allowed to upgrade REGARDLESS of purchse date?

Just curious...

[blackbird_1.0]

because the power of the G5 is useless w/o it,

10.2 is not at all optimized for the 64bit G5,

10.3 is partly optimized already (10.4 may be fully when its released) and will make the G5 scream compared to when running Jaguar.


hope that clears things up...

[passmaster16]

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
deebee:
If it's similar to the Jaguar "upgrade" then the answer is no, you cannot boot from a CD on the upgrade disk. Only a "full" version of Panther will let you do a "clean install." Hope that helps.

No unless somebody modifies the upgrade disc just like what was done with Jaguar. I remember getting Jaguar for $20 through the up-to-date program but the discs were upgrade version. Somebody on here found a way to modify the CD image so that it would allow clean installs. I guess we'll have to see if the same can be done with the Panther disc.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by blackbird_1.0:
because the power of the G5 is useless w/o it,

10.2 is not at all optimized for the 64bit G5,

10.3 is partly optimized already (10.4 may be fully when its released) and will make the G5 scream compared to when running Jaguar.


hope that clears things up...

I doubt it. 64 bit code simply means more data to move around. In terms of overall system usability it won't make a realistic difference. BUT you will see a difference in 64 bit apps that handle lots of data like video, graphics, sound, etc

[funkboy]

Originally posted by eScrib:
Obviously, they have to cut it off somewhere.... But WHY are the G5 people allowed to upgrade REGARDLESS of purchse date?

Just curious...

Is there any chance for Panther to run on a G3? Or will the installer even stop my from trying to install it?

I really want to be able to upgrade my parents' computer... they love OS X, but only have a beige. Any G4 donations? ;-)

[eScrib]

Originally posted by blackbird_1.0:
because the power of the G5 is useless w/o it,

10.2 is not at all optimized for the 64bit G5,

10.3 is partly optimized already (10.4 may be fully when its released) and will make the G5 scream compared to when running Jaguar.


hope that clears things up...

BOLOGNA

[Macbear]

First, let me say that I'm about to pick up a new 12 inch Powerbook, in about two weeks, so I'm not writing on my behalf. I'm going to be able to take advantage of the Up to Date pricing on Panther.

I'm writing on behalf of other recent Powerbook buyers. I think Apple should be extending the $20 upgrade to anyone who bought one of the new Powerbooks, solely because they were announced and started shipping AFTER the G5's. A lot of Powerbook buyers spent just as much, if not more, than those who bought a G5.

I know Apple must draw a line as to who qualifies for a "free" upgrade. I know that G5 owners will benefit even more from Panther's optimised code. Still, fair is fair. The new batch of Powerbooks came after the G5. To my way of thinking, people who jumped on the Powerbook purchasing wagon as soon as they were announced should be included in the update... even as just a "thank you" from Apple for making the launch of a new set of revisions a success.

So, if you've dropped a hunk of cash on a new Powerbook recently, call Apple. File a formal complaint. If enough people do, Apple may extend the offer.

It's not whining or crying. It's a simple question of "why are G5 purchasers more important that new Powerbook buyers?".

You may now flame the first time poster.

Macbear
Creative Writer - Bon Vivant

[idyll]

It states that you have had to buy your computer on or after August 16, 2003. I pre-ordered my G5 the first day they were announced. Am I eligible for the "Mac OS Up-To-Date" program?

[h00ligan]

listen i am sorry but that upgrade is crap.

people that bought any machine in the last 30 days shoudl get it free, period.

wtf kind of arbitrary upgrade policy is that?

16 days.. dear god.. please.

And i am not even affected adn i will be buying it, and i still think it is crap, i would be pissed if i got mine this month and didn't get a copy comped.

[ae77]

ordered a Panther today.

i'm happy.

[nobitacu]

Yea, I ordered it at 7:30 this morning. I can't wait until I have it in my hands!!!! ^_^

Ming

[Robo-X]

I think it is very unfair from Apple. They should put at least 1 or 2 months uptodate program. All G4 15", 17" and 12" AI Powerbooks together with all G5s should get this upgrade for free. Apple lives from selling hardware, which is overpriced as it is. This is discussed everytime Apples releases a new system but it doesn't make it less wrong. Apple should learn and hopefully they listen and changes the uptodate program.

In any case I hope it is the shipping date that is important and not the order date because Apple (as always I should add) have problems meeting the demand of new hardware. And always seems to overproduce Macs that nobody wants.

//Rob

[theolein]

Ouch! Even in Switzerland, with lower VAT and non EU pricing, it costs more than in the US, even though the pre-VAT prices in Switzerland used to be the same. ($136 pre-VAT, $146 incl VAT).

I have the feeling Apple is going to face a wiff of piracy with this release, especially in non-US countries.

For all those who purchased recently and who are pissed that they now have to pay full price, isn't this time to exercise your social skills?

By this I mean trotting down to your local college, school, university (place of learning) and making friends with a student or person who would be elligible for this upgrade (that includes Windows users who wouldn't want OSX but who would perhaps do this if you gave them a couple of bucks) and giving them a small 5 buck fee or so to order Panther with their educational discount. If you have children, you could do this as well couldn't you?

I'm probably going to ask a friend at the uni here in Z�rich to get it for me, I think.

[sanity assassin]

hasn't anyoe noticed how the sidebar is a different colour? Is it just me? Does that mean that 7b85 isn't the GM sinec it isnt in that one? Ahaa, now to stoke that fire...

[SomeToast]

Originally posted by Macbear:
So, if you've dropped a hunk of cash on a new Powerbook recently, call Apple. File a formal complaint. If enough people do, Apple may extend the offer.

Wait, wait...

Online petition.

[Buckaroo]

I noticed that Apple is now selling 5-Packs. Will we be required to register each machine with Apple similar to the way M$ requires Windows XP Pro?

[Eriamjh]

Originally posted by Buckaroo:
I noticed that Apple is now selling 5-Packs. Will we be required to register each machine with Apple similar to the way M$ requires Windows XP Pro?

Old news. They did this with Jaguar. It's a "family pack".

There have been no reports of registration or serial numbers being implements, but plenty of discussion that it "could" happen if people keep stealing the OSes after release via file sharing.

[soul searching]

To those of you who have ordered in the states: do you know which type of shipping you need to choose in order to have it delivered on the night of the 24th? It would be cool if you can get it on the 24 with the free shipping

[BZ]

The night of the 24th, you have to go to the stores.

Historically, Apple has upgraded everyone to Sat FedEx for free on pre-orders, but we shall see. I went for the $12 FedEx as I am out on Friday night and want to spend Sat morning "pre-paring" the computer.

BZ

Originally posted by soul searching:
To those of you who have ordered in the states: do you know which type of shipping you need to choose in order to have it delivered on the night of the 24th? It would be cool if you can get it on the 24 with the free shipping

[talisker]

Oh, how predictable. "It's not fair...blah blah blah...just bought a powerbook...coupon useless...Apple screwing me....blah blah...costs 6.7% more in Lithuania than the USA...blah blah...my mummy didn't love me....blah blah".

Things don't cost the same in different countries. There's no reason they should. Companies are free to charge whatever they like. Pricing isn't determined solely by cost. It's determined by the market too. If it's too expensive don't buy it. Computer hardware and software changes and new versions are released. You have no right to be given any sort of reduced price on an upgrade when this happens. If you are, it's a bonus. But there has to be a cut off point. If you're on the wrong side of the cut off you miss out. Tough. You still have no right to it. Panther looks f*cking fantastic and I'll happily shell out for it. If you don't think so, fine. Your choice. There, feel better now.

[Apfhex]

Originally posted by sanity assassin:
hasn't anyoe noticed how the sidebar is a different colour? Is it just me? Does that mean that 7b85 isn't the GM sinec it isnt in that one? Ahaa, now to stoke that fire...

Yes, I just noticed that myself.

(Edit: it seems those images might just be old, and it's not that they've changed the Finder. Dang! And I thought that it looked better like that, too.)

[sebaz]

So u can go the night of 24 at 8 or whenever to your local apple store and pick up a copy of panther? Or must you pre-order first online..im kinda confused about this