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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > FTFF -- So what DO you want in Leopard's Finder?

FTFF -- So what DO you want in Leopard's Finder? (Page 4)
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Weyland-Yutani
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Sep 22, 2005, 06:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
You mean an option other than `Hide'? When you Hide the Dock, it still pops up when you move the cursor to the bottom of the screen. Is that a big problem for you?
Well it is if you don't want to use the Dock at all. Not want it to pop up ever. Exposé isn't mandatory, you can turn it off completely - it might run in the backround but you can set it so that it will never be activated accidentally.

I like Exposé btw, just saying that since that feature can be essentially "turned off" then why not the Dock.

75% of my request has been there from the beginning. Ever since OS X was released. I've tried it for 4 years now and I've come to the conclusion that I'd like to be able to turn it off completely at times. Maybe all the time, I don't know. I like DragThing better and the Dock hasn't seen a feature update to any significant degree since the beginning.

I can even turn the Finder "off" by using PathFinder but for some reason I still prefer the Apple Finder slightly over PathFinder. Although it is a close call. We'll see what Apple does with the 10.5. Finder. They'll do something.

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W-Y

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leperkuhn
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Sep 22, 2005, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
You mean an option other than `Hide'? When you Hide the Dock, it still pops up when you move the cursor to the bottom of the screen. Is that a big problem for you?
Eh, Not really a big deal, but sometimes it's a little distracting if it pops up and i wasn't expecting it. *shrug*. I'd rather see keep arranged by name than "hide all the time".
     
leperkuhn
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Sep 22, 2005, 06:51 PM
 
I can even turn the Finder "off" by using PathFinder but for some reason I still prefer the Apple Finder slightly over PathFinder. Although it is a close call. We'll see what Apple does with the 10.5. Finder. They'll do something.
My only pathfinder complaint is that it's a lot slower than the regular finder. Time to try the "replace finder with pathfinder" hack.
     
SMacTech
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Sep 22, 2005, 08:32 PM
 
W:Y : Also, AFAIK the utilities that allow the Trash to be put on the Desktop do not reflect whether the Trash is full .
If the Trash is full, you really are in deep waters or other matters !
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 23, 2005, 02:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani
Also, AFAIK the utilities that allow the Trash to be put on the Desktop do not reflect whether the Trash is full or not nor do they allow volumes to be ejected by dragging them over the Trash like in the Dock.
At least iCan can do exactly that: unmount, appear full when it's actually full, it even allows themes (including custom sounds). I'm surprised you haven't tried it yet.
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cla
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Sep 23, 2005, 03:44 AM
 
Why do you want the dock sorted alphabetically?

(Warning, complex sentence ahead...)
If a) having to recall each applications/documents name and
b) compare the name of the application you're looking for to the others in order to determine where in dock it is, would actually make you faster, I'd say that either:
a) we don't use the dock in the same way or
b) you're having some serious usability issues today.

"A picture says more than a thousand words" is usually a BAD thing in ui design.
I want my Photoshop icon to say "Photoshop", instead it says "indian freedom, mystery apache quill, click me!! click me!!". So does the Indesign icon.

These are my issues with the dock. The first thing I did after installing the Adobe CS package was to put Indesign and Photoshop next to eachother in the dock, and I've always had trouble telling them apart. I constantly paused half a second before dropping files onto any of their icons, because I had to recognize, recall, and associate their icons with the name of the app I was aiming for.

The solution was dead simple: Separate the icons. Photoshop in the left part of the dock, Indesign in the right. Now I never hesitate when dropping files onto these apps anymore.

I don't want to reject the sort-dock-alphabetical argument until I understand its point. Can you explain how such a feature would help you?
     
leperkuhn
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:21 AM
 
When i need to switch to a different app, I think of the name. I don't think of an icon.. I really don't know how to explain to you why my brain prefers to search for something by name rather than by some arbitrary location that it's been placed. It's the same reason I never liked spacial view.

Think of it as doing a binary search on an ordered list.

One interesting point: Mail, Safari, and the Finder have been in the same place for a few years now, on the left. At this point, I finally look for them there. But, every other app is a "where the hell did i put that" effort.
     
cla
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by leperkuhn
I really don't know how to explain to you why my brain prefers to search for something by name rather than by some arbitrary location that it's been placed.
Key question: Is it because the _computer_ put the icon at an arbitrary location, or is it because _you_ put it at an arbitrary location?
     
leperkuhn
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:27 AM
 
Could be either. I work with a TON of apps, so I don't keep any in the dock. I generally have between 25 and 30 open at a time.

I use my computer for both home office and personal use. So, I have all my web developer stuff (2 browsers, editors, ibiz, smartsvn), photos, movies, address book, ical, stickies.. you get the point. I have way to much stuff to keep everything in the dock. So when i'm not using something, i take it out to save space.

To summarize: the problem is that I don't keep anything there long enough to remember where it is.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by cla
Why do you want the dock sorted alphabetically?

(Warning, complex sentence ahead...)
If a) having to recall each applications/documents name and
b) compare the name of the application you're looking for to the others in order to determine where in dock it is, would actually make you faster, I'd say that either:
a) we don't use the dock in the same way or
b) you're having some serious usability issues today.

"A picture says more than a thousand words" is usually a BAD thing in ui design.
I want my Photoshop icon to say "Photoshop", instead it says "indian freedom, mystery apache quill, click me!! click me!!". So does the Indesign icon.

These are my issues with the dock. The first thing I did after installing the Adobe CS package was to put Indesign and Photoshop next to eachother in the dock, and I've always had trouble telling them apart. I constantly paused half a second before dropping files onto any of their icons, because I had to recognize, recall, and associate their icons with the name of the app I was aiming for.

The solution was dead simple: Separate the icons. Photoshop in the left part of the dock, Indesign in the right. Now I never hesitate when dropping files onto these apps anymore.

I don't want to reject the sort-dock-alphabetical argument until I understand its point. Can you explain how such a feature would help you?
I would be against mandatory sorting of objects in the Dock, but as an option? I don't know, as I don't see any use for it. Unlike Windows' Start Menu (which is useless unless alphabetically sorted!), it doesn't contain all apps. I sorted the apps according to importance, and I try to keep the number of objects (permanently) in the Dock below 10 which seems to work out fine. Especially because I `know' these apps and they have all very different purposes (Mail, Safari, TeXShop, iView, Terminal, Address Book, etc.).

Just a suggestion to you, cla. How about if you use some other icons for Adobe's apps? There are plenty of free icons out there, I'm sure there must be a few you'd like. But I see your point and your solution works just as well, I guess
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OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by leperkuhn
When i need to switch to a different app, I think of the name. I don't think of an icon.. I really don't know how to explain to you why my brain prefers to search for something by name rather than by some arbitrary location that it's been placed. It's the same reason I never liked spacial view.

Think of it as doing a binary search on an ordered list.

One interesting point: Mail, Safari, and the Finder have been in the same place for a few years now, on the left. At this point, I finally look for them there. But, every other app is a "where the hell did i put that" effort.
Actually, humans are better at recognizing pictures than text. That's why the Dock uses icons (unlike Windows where you have to read the title bars which are cut short anyway ).

For instance Japanese and Chinese can read eight times faster on average, because their characters are pictorial. It even works with Westerners who learn kanji much later (Also, that's why they can memorize much better.) Transferring this to the Dock, using pictorial images (icons) seems to be the faster way here … plus, it saves a lot of space.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by leperkuhn
Could be either. I work with a TON of apps, so I don't keep any in the dock. I generally have between 25 and 30 open at a time.

I use my computer for both home office and personal use. So, I have all my web developer stuff (2 browsers, editors, ibiz, smartsvn), photos, movies, address book, ical, stickies.. you get the point. I have way to much stuff to keep everything in the dock. So when i'm not using something, i take it out to save space.

To summarize: the problem is that I don't keep anything there long enough to remember where it is.
Ah, ok, that explains why. I see your problem, but I think most of us don't have that many apps running concurrently (I have usually 6-10 apps plus Finder and Dashboard running, right now it's 8.) The standard apps appear in an order I have meticulously thought about, new apps appear on the right, next to the separator. So I don't have to think where they are, as most of the apps that are running are `standard apps' which I keep in the Dock permanently anyway.

Don't get me wrong, but how about trying to keep the number of apps down to about 15? (My brother was making fun of me: no wonder, your computer is slow, you run 10 apps at the same time He still uses Windows )
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cla
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Sep 23, 2005, 04:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
Just a suggestion to you, cla. How about if you use some other icons for Adobe's apps? There are plenty of free icons out there, I'm sure there must be a few you'd like. But I see your point and your solution works just as well, I guess
I tried that before separating the icons. I don't remember how much of an improvement it was, but I think the major problem is that the function and the looks of the apps are too similar.

I'd be glad if anyone can point me to user testing results done in this area, although I fear there's almost nothing of that (publicly) available (which I find hard to believe).

I notice now when the distance between them is more than 50 pixels (more like 850...) that my motorskills do the choice for me. I never have to worry about it.
     
leperkuhn
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Sep 23, 2005, 05:03 AM
 
Yeah, I've tried that. Unfortunately, since I have around 140 apps (and use about 80 of them regularly) it's a bit tough to weed out the ones that I don't need.

For web development: Finder, Mail, Safari, Firefox, BBedit, Interarchy, SmartSVN, iBiz, Cocoamysql, photoshop, ical, stickies, free ruler, tailor, terminal. Sometimes virtual PC to check stuff in IE.

Usually also running: itunes, bluephoneelite, adium, address book.
     
cla
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Sep 23, 2005, 06:08 AM
 
How many of these 80 apps do you use 99,9% of the time?
     
Weyland-Yutani
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Sep 23, 2005, 07:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by SMacTech
If the Trash is full, you really are in deep waters or other matters !
True that!

I meant that when one puts a file in the Trash it appears "full". Hope that carifies what I meant.

cheers

W-Y

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Weyland-Yutani
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Sep 23, 2005, 07:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
At least iCan can do exactly that: unmount, appear full when it's actually full, it even allows themes (including custom sounds). I'm surprised you haven't tried it yet.
It costs money.

The app looks good and I hope that Apple offers something like the features of it in 10.5 but I will pay for them on top of the price for Tiger which is quite substantial - on top of the premium I pay for the Macintosh hardware which is quite substantial again.

I use the freeware iTrash for now, but my feature request remains and AFAIK there are no freeware apps that offer full Trash features (and they aren't that many really)

cheers

W-Y

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Weyland-Yutani
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Sep 23, 2005, 07:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I would be against mandatory sorting of objects in the Dock, but as an option? I don't know, as I don't see any use for it.
A) Why would you assume the sorting would be mandatory

B) What makes your opinion better than other people's opinion?

cheers

W-Y

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Phil Sherry
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Sep 23, 2005, 07:37 AM
 
I want to be able to manually refresh the Network view, and for the Network view to work properly. I shouldn't still be able to see my PowerBook showing up in Network view, when it's not even in the same building as my G5.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 23, 2005, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani
A) Why would you assume the sorting would be mandatory

B) What makes your opinion better than other people's opinion?

cheers

W-Y
Reread my post. I wrote explicitly that I would be against mandatory sorting, but wouldn't mind it as an additional choice. How much more explicit do you need it?
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Weyland-Yutani
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Sep 23, 2005, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I don't know, as I don't see any use for it.
This comment. What does it have to do with anything. Other people have expressed why they see use for it, so what makes your comment on it worth anything?

cheers

W-Y

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leperkuhn
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Sep 23, 2005, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani
This comment. What does it have to do with anything. Other people have expressed why they see use for it, so what makes your comment on it worth anything?

cheers

W-Y
You're being a little sensitive. I don't think he's saying "kiss my ass, w-y, because I don't need it." OreoCookie is just saying "i don't need it myself."
     
leperkuhn
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Sep 23, 2005, 05:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by cla
How many of these 80 apps do you use 99,9% of the time?
About 15. I don't deliberately keep anything in the dock when it isn't open, except mail and safari.

Anyone know of a way to disable the behavior of the system automatically calling "keep in dock" when you move the dock icon? That's part of the problem..
     
OreoCookie  (op)
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Sep 23, 2005, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by leperkuhn
About 15. I don't deliberately keep anything in the dock when it isn't open, except mail and safari.

Anyone know of a way to disable the behavior of the system automatically calling "keep in dock" when you move the dock icon? That's part of the problem..
I don't want to discourage you or something, but I think the Dock isn't good anymore when you're dealing with so many apps at the same time. But then, only a few people do have 25 apps running at once … maybe you're just beyond the plausible user scenario … (no offense intended)

Indeed you raise a good point, I think it's a bug. I remember earlier versions of the Dock didn't do that. I hope they'll fix that one.
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leperkuhn
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Sep 23, 2005, 07:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie
I don't want to discourage you or something, but I think the Dock isn't good anymore when you're dealing with so many apps at the same time. But then, only a few people do have 25 apps running at once … maybe you're just beyond the plausible user scenario … (no offense intended)

Indeed you raise a good point, I think it's a bug. I remember earlier versions of the Dock didn't do that. I hope they'll fix that one.
Not discouraging at all - just telling me what I already know
     
 
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