Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > iTunes 6.02 puts the music store in your face!

iTunes 6.02 puts the music store in your face!
Thread Tools
Leia's Left Bun
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Avoiding Hans advances
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 03:32 PM
 
New with iTunes 6.02... a giant frame at the bottom of your iTunes library listing new songs for you to buy at the Apple Store.

The only way I have found to get rid of it is to turn off the Store altogether in Parental controls.

I expect something like this from MS after they become a monopoly.

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
     
Thinine
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 03:42 PM
 
You're an idiot. There's a button underneath the listing that makes the store go away. Jeez. Try looking around before whining.
     
onlykaria
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Sep 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 03:55 PM
 
thin that was a mean thing to say. sometimes it doesnt hurt to be helpful AND polite.
     
JHromadka
Mac Elite
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 03:55 PM
 
Burn!!!
     
Leia's Left Bun  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Avoiding Hans advances
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 04:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thinine
You're an idiot. There's a button underneath the listing that makes the store go away. Jeez. Try looking around before whining.
Ya I can see how to turn it off. The thing is it shouldn't be there in the first place when browsing your own library.

I'm willing to bet most users won't even think there is a way to get rid of it.

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
     
B Gallagher
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 04:14 PM
 
Especially users who don't yet have access to the Apple Store...
MBP 15" C2D 2.2GHz 4.0GB [email protected]
iPhone 4 32GB Black
     
Krypton
Mac Elite
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Cambridge UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 04:43 PM
 
Movie playback is improved ever so slightly, but is still shockingly bad compared to standalone QuickTime.
     
wreising
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Capo Beach
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 04:59 PM
 
I'd rather have this display show recommended titles based on what I'm viewing in my library.

It would have to take into consideration ALL of the music that I already have.

Could be cool.
A beautiful woman who is not a fool is a dangerous thing.
- Nero Wolfe
     
eggman
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 05:08 PM
 
I'm grateful that they fixed the bug in iTunes when pasting into the lyrics textbox.

In the last version, you'd get two copies of whatever you pasted, which was a pain.
     
Phil Sherry
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 05:11 PM
 
Nice "feature" they added when you minimise, then maximise. Am I the only one to get this? (click for larger)

     
vexingv
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: nyc
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 10, 2006, 09:30 PM
 
i'm a bit worried/war about the privacy/security concerns with this feature when itunes is constantly querying the itms with what you're playing for suggesting recommendations.
     
Ryan1524
Senior User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Canada GTA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 04:03 AM
 
Phil, i don't seem to get that. the Store bar stayed hidden, and the list didn't turn into browse mode.
Ryan
     
Leia's Left Bun  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Avoiding Hans advances
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by vexingv
i'm a bit worried/war about the privacy/security concerns with this feature when itunes is constantly querying the itms with what you're playing for suggesting recommendations.
Guess what. It seems this mini store is TRACKING your songs and giving you recommendations accordingly.

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/11...te_spies_.html

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
     
SpaceMonkey
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Leia's Left Bun
Guess what. It seems this mini store is TRACKING your songs and giving you recommendations accordingly.

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/11...te_spies_.html
According to that link, this spyware behavior ceases when the MiniStore is hidden. That's some good news, at least.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
TETENAL
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 02:07 PM
 
The song tracking feature of iTunes 6.0.2 made frontpage news in German media today:

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/polit...394740,00.html

And I think Apple deserves the PR disaster this update created. If you looked at the update description in Software Update before the update, it said "performance and stability enhancements". No word about the iTMS advertisement and phone home feature that was added. Why was this concealed before the update? I must admit I was pissed about it before I read how to turn it off.
     
Leia's Left Bun  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Avoiding Hans advances
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey
According to that link, this spyware behavior ceases when the MiniStore is hidden. That's some good news, at least.
Again, I think most novice or new Mac users aren't even going to know that it is a possibility to get rid of it.

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
     
cybergoober
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newport News, VA USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 02:35 PM
 
Well, contrary to popular belief, it's not tracking your listening habits. It only updates when you click on a single song or album.
     
demograph68
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jul 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 02:39 PM
 
It's like audioscrobbler, which is useful, though they should have made it not turned on from the start.
     
JLL
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 02:52 PM
 
Then people would have missed the feature. All this fuss for something that can be "fixed" by clicking on a button.
JLL

- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
     
gradient
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 02:57 PM
 
What might have been a better idea would have been to add a "...find music by this artist" option in the contextual menu of each song, which would send you directly to the music store. This panel is just annoying, even though it's hideable because even if I did want to find music by an artist in my library, I have to actually play it before it updates.
     
Leia's Left Bun  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Avoiding Hans advances
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 03:17 PM
 
MacCentral has made the same points as I have on the matter.
http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/edit...php?lsrc=mwrss

If this was MS we would be laughing our asses off at all those PC suckers.

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
     
cybergoober
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newport News, VA USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 03:46 PM
 
That MacWorld article was written by Rob Griffiths, the guy that runs macosxhints.com

See his initial posting, followed by his admission that there was some confusion as to what was actually going on, here:
http://www.macosxhints.com/article.p...60111071001306
     
kman42
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 04:22 PM
 
I like it. I already found a couple of albums I was missing.

And it isn't spyware. It simply takes the name of the song, etc and queries the store for similar albums/songs and then returns the results to YOU. It's simply a webobjects call. It's no different than clicking on an artist within the iTMS or clicking on a URL on the web. Unless you have some evidence that Apple is collecting and storing information on your listening habits, then you are crying wolf.

They already collect data on the songs you buy so that they can provide you with the Just for You results. This is exactly what Amazon does as well. It's a great feature.

K
     
kman42
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 04:24 PM
 
I like it. I already found a couple of albums I was missing.

And it isn't spyware. It simply takes the name of the song, etc and queries the store for similar albums/songs and then returns the results to YOU. It's simply a webobjects call. It's no different than clicking on an artist within the iTMS or clicking on a URL on the web. Unless you have some evidence that Apple is collecting and storing information on your listening habits, then you are crying wolf.

They already collect data on the songs you buy so that they can provide you with the Just for You results. This is exactly what Amazon does as well. It's a great feature.

K
     
Big Mac
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2006, 04:24 PM
 
I think it's kind of neat. It's not a malicious feature. Anyone who is freaked out over Apple's servers giving song recommendations based on library picks is highly paranoid and likely has some strange tastes in music. You guys are a lot more upset about this minor thing than the fact that the platform is being put at serious risk.
( Last edited by Big Mac; Jan 11, 2006 at 04:42 PM. )

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Scooterboy
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Minneapolis for now
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 02:38 AM
 
I was shocked at first as well, seeing the iTunes mini store frame. Very, very MicroSoft-like. Then I found the button to turn it off. Very Apple-like. Still, it shouldn't be the defualt setup. That is MicroSoft-like.

And it is spyware if it's data mining without my knowledge and consent. I installed it because Apple said it was a stability improvement. Apple said nothing about data mining and sending information to a 3rd party marketing firm in Utah.

I've now disabled the iTMS using the parental controls. This episode has left a bad taste. Besides, I think I'd rather go back to buying CD's and records at my old neighborhood record store, which has a much better selection than Apple and the music is not a compressed file format. Not to mention that I feel closer to my community shopping there than on the iTMS, and I'd rather have a pretty girl looking over my shoulder than Apple, even if it is a nicer Big Brother than Microsoft.
Scooters are more fun than computers and only slightly more frustrating
     
as2
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Northants, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 04:31 AM
 
Admittedly I didn't like the idea when I first saw it, and had just flown back from SA, so wasn't 100% with it, so didn't find the button to turn it off for a while.

In retrospect though, it's quite a nice idea to use occasionally.

I'll probably have it off most of the time, but the way it looks for related songs could be useful. I will buy a compilation CD, or soundtrack album once in a while, and sometimes there is an artist, or song on there you might not know. The mini store gives instant access to the albums, or related tracks to that song which is nice.

I think that people have been making rather hasty comments about the 'feature'. I don't for one second think that Apple are using it as spyware, or analysing your listening habits. The aim of the new mini-store is to drive iTMS sales. It is purely a marketing/advertising tool. By showing you new songs/albums by artists that you already have in your library, they are increasing the chances of you buying more music from the store.

If you are going to go all Enemy Of The State on us though, just switch the feature, or the iTMS off, rather than bitch about how everyone is spying on you.
[img=http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1300/desktj.jpg]
     
inkhead
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 04:34 AM
 
What's the big deal? If you don't like it turn it off? It's a very useful feature.
     
as2
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Northants, UK
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 04:36 AM
 
If you look at the articles quoted above, most now state that an Apple Spokesman has clarified to Macworld magazine, and other sources that NO DATA is being collected. Rumours have it that the spokesman was Jobs himself.
[img=http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1300/desktj.jpg]
     
Wiskedjak
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by JLL
Then people would have missed the feature. All this fuss for something that can be "fixed" by clicking on a button.
And if Windows implemented something like this in Media Player, the Apple loyalists would probably be calling for Bill Gates' head on a platter.
     
Leia's Left Bun  (op)
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Avoiding Hans advances
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 11:59 AM
 
" iTunes sends data about the song selected in your library to the iTunes Music Store to provide relevant recommendations."

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303066

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!"
     
Person Man
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Northwest Ohio
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 12:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac
You guys are a lot more upset about this minor thing than the fact that the platform is being put at serious risk.
Had to stick that little "dig" in there, didn't you?

The platform is NOT "being put at serious risk."
     
cybergoober
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newport News, VA USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 12:29 PM
 
PPC zealot? How cute.
     
ShotgunEd
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 01:36 PM
 
I think its a nice feature. It may have been better to include a prompt at first run to ask the user if they'd like to enable this feature.

What would be common courtesy would be to either automatically get the album art from the store for your existing mp3s, or at least allow you to drag the album art from the mini store to the art display pane.

I'll submit feedback now.

err...anyone got a link for iTunes, not iTMS feedback, I've searched to no avail?
     
typoon
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: The Tollbooth Capital of the US
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
The song tracking feature of iTunes 6.0.2 made frontpage news in German media today:

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/polit...394740,00.html

And I think Apple deserves the PR disaster this update created. If you looked at the update description in Software Update before the update, it said "performance and stability enhancements". No word about the iTMS advertisement and phone home feature that was added. Why was this concealed before the update? I must admit I was pissed about it before I read how to turn it off.
Read how to turn it off? UM... If you just move your mouse over the buttons in iTunes it'll tell you that you can turn it off. It took me a few seconds to figure it out but I didn't have to "read about how to shut it off."

The comments about if M$ has done this people would be calling for their heads is probably correct. Because M$ would probably have inadvertantly created some exploit within it that could used to compromise Windows. That's why people would be calling for someone head. To me this isn't a really big issue. IF it did something to compromise Mac OS X THEN it would be an issue.
"Evil is Powerless If the Good are Unafraid." -Ronald Reagan

Apple and Intel, the dawning of a NEW era.
     
Michael T. Doyle
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 05:19 PM
 
Some of you are missing a big point. The problem is not that Apple discards the collected information, rendering this (and there's no proof either way of this) supposedly a safe feature that does not intrude on privacy. Throwing the data away is completely irrelevant, no matter how useful the feature is. And, for the record, I think it's a very neat, useful feature, I'm sure I'll use it, and I don't think as explained after-the-fact that it presents a privacy risk.

But, the ends never justify the means, and the fact remains that information is being collected from my computer, without my advance and informed consent. And data-mining of any sort, no matter how benign, without telling me about it first and asking my permission, is the biggest no-no in the whole computer privacy debate.

All software (or at the very least the licensce for all software) should clearly inform users about any transmission of personal information and any ways to disable such features prior to the information ever having a chance to be collected. Informing me after I've run the software and the data has been collected and transmitted is too late and there's really no way out of it for Apple in this regard. Best practices for computer privacy do not change simply because we're talking about Apple and not Real or Microsoft.

For that matter, even Real and Microsoft, and usually Apple (in OS X "Would you like to report this to Apple" dialogues) ask first before sending personal information to remote servers. There's no excuse here for Apple that I can think of except for a clear lack of focus, or perhaps even concern, about privacy issues. Because when you think about it in terms of informed consent, it's obvious to many of us there wasn't any--so why wasn't this obvious to Apple?

Bottom line: great feature, worst-possible implementation, and a shining example that Apple can screw up big time like any other computer company.
Mike Doyle
Chicago, IL
     
TETENAL
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: FFM
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by typoon
Read how to turn it off? UM... If you just move your mouse over the buttons in iTunes it'll tell you that you can turn it off. It took me a few seconds to figure it out but I didn't have to "read about how to shut it off."
I looked into the advertising pane itself and I looked into the application preferences and didn't see anything. I didn't even notice the extra button. I had to read about how to turn it off to turn it off and I believe I'm quite knowledgeable about computers. I'm sure there were a lot of other people who couldn't (or still can't) figure out how to turn off the advertising pane.

Why wasn't there a dialog box that informed my about this thing like there is for the Party Shuffle and stuff. It could have asked me whether I want it and tell how to turn it on and off and nobody would have complained. Instead Apple sneaked this in without telling people and speculates that many users are unable to turn it off.
     
kman42
Professional Poster
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Michael T. Doyle
...and the fact remains that information is being collected from my computer, without my advance and informed consent. And data-mining of any sort, no matter how benign, without telling me about it first and asking my permission, is the biggest no-no in the whole computer privacy debate.
I don't think it is 'collecting' anything. 'Collecting' implies that it is storing the information. All it does is send a webobjects URL request with the title of the song and the album name to Apple's iTMS servers and it returns a search result. It is just the same as if you did a search for 'White Stripes' in the iTMS. OR if you searched for 'White Stripes' on google. OR just typed in a web address or click on a hyperlink. Information for each of these is 'sent' to a server and then a page is returned.

Now, it may be unexpected that when you click on a song in your library that this will take place as it is a new behavior. We are all just used to expecting this behavior when we click on a link in the iTMS or type in a google search. Nevertheless, the behavior is essentially the same.

Apple should have alerted us to this new behavior as clearly some people don't like it. But that doesn't make it malicious behavior. The behavior actually seemed pretty obvious to me once I saw it in action. Click a song and an iTMS search result is returned at the bottom of my screen.

If Apple was storing those clicks, then that's a different story. Although it probably still wouldn't be a big deal as long as no personal information was stored with it.

kman
     
:dragonflypro:
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kuna, ID USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2006, 09:46 PM
 
There is a lot of over-playing the 'information is collected".

The method is not even that specific. It merely sends the artist, album and track name info as 'keywords' which trigger a set of display variables.

If you click on a The Killers track you get info of like albums, their own or similar bands. These are all pre-categorized. The results are not specific to you or your listening habits.

I actually took a track that had no info and just randomly insert The Smiths as the Artist. Sure enough, plenty of results pertinent to them. Changed to New Order, same track, new results.

Seriously, if one can get pent up over this then don't ever do any research into web metrics. The amount of data a server can get on you just for visiting a site is MUCH more specific about you. What site you cam from, your computer OS, connection speed, physical location… it goes on.

For anyone to go tizzy over keyword generated material such as this is just looking for things to complain about, looking to be offended, looking to be wronged. And believe me, there are probably plenty of more viable outlets for your grinding.

T
     
Scooterboy
Senior User
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Minneapolis for now
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2006, 12:38 AM
 
I don't think it is 'collecting' anything. 'Collecting' implies that it is storing the information. All it does is send a webobjects URL request with the title of the song and the album name to Apple's iTMS servers and it returns a search result. It is just the same as if you did a search for 'White Stripes' in the iTMS. OR if you searched for 'White Stripes' on google. OR just typed in a web address or click on a hyperlink. Information for each of these is 'sent' to a server and then a page is returned.
No, it is not the same thing. In your Google and iTMS example, I initiate the search of web pages or Apple's store. With this new update, Apple initiates the search, of my computer, with out informing me it is doing this and with out asking for my permission (consent, in legal parlance). That's just wrong, and if you don't think it's wrong then you don't value privacy. Perhaps you wouldn't mind if Virgin or HMV or Tower records stopped by your house and just walked in and started searching just to see what CD's you have in your collection. Not that they'd keep that information, mind you. Just so they could send you marketing flyers taylored to your collection. Really, that's all they'll do with that list. 'Cause they said so.

When I visit a site or visit the iTMS and click on links and the server collects that data is one thing, but if the server is snooping into my hard drive and logging all music and media files, then transmitting them to someone, that is another matter entirely. It is wrong.

Apple has lost my trust. That trust was cultivated over a long, long time but this single act has broken that trust. Thank you Apple. I see you really are just like any other corporation, and I won't forget that.
Scooters are more fun than computers and only slightly more frustrating
     
ShotgunEd
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2006, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Scooterboy
When I visit a site or visit the iTMS and click on links and the server collects that data is one thing, but if the server is snooping into my hard drive and logging all music and media files, then transmitting them to someone, that is another matter entirely. It is wrong.
Emphasis mine.

Didn't you read the thread?

It only sends information about a song you double click on, not all music.

And its not sending it to someone, but to the iTMS, someone you already trust with your full name, CC information and home address.
     
jokarak
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2006, 12:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShotgunEd
Emphasis mine.

Didn't you read the thread?

It only sends information about a song you double click on, not all music.

And its not sending it to someone, but to the iTMS, someone you already trust with your full name, CC information and home address.
I think there are two points you are overlooking.

1) If I'm not mistaken, it seems that information is sent whenever a song is played from your library. So, if you start playing one song, as it proceeds down the list, information will be sent for every song played, not just the first song you double-clicked.

This seems to be an underhanded means of obtaining information, specially considering that the helpful little gray arrows next to every song title and artist name directs the user will give the user the same information, if the user wanted to look it up.

2) By doing this data gathering without first informing the user, Apple has clearly lost some trust, even if we had given them our name, CC and address before. Look, just because you used to trust someone before, it does not mean that this trust can not be lost if that person does something to make you distrust him.

As others have noted, if Microsoft had done something exactly like this, most members in this board would be up in arms. Let's recognize that when it comes to Apple, most of the members in this board have some bias. Knowing this, let's proceed and not allow said favorable bias to blind us from what is gonig on here: Apple has knowingly (or accidentally) enacted a system whereby data is sent from your computer, without your prior consent, to themselves and to Akamai. Such data is used to then send back information to your computer, without your consent, about possible selections that you may interest you. This is junk mail. Plain and simple spam that we have not requested/consent/known about before-hand.

It does not matter that is it easy to disable. As others have pointed out, joe average might not easily know that this feature can be disabled. Heck, experienced users in this forum have admitted not realizing how to turn off this feature. As a matter of fact, if you had not read that closing the mini-store would stop the information from being transmitted, would you be confident that simply closing the mini-store would resolve the problem? Moreover, we have no guarantees from Apple that said information will be erased after the recommendations have been made. That is what is going on right now, but can we be confident that their stance will not change in the future?

Sure, now that a lot of people are raising their eyebrows over this issue, Apple will probably issue a statement to the effect that this information was never intended to be stored, blah blah blah. But if no one raised concerns about this behavior, I'm not so sure that Apple would not be inclined to take more use of this information.

I don't think that it is the end of the world that iTunes has this "feature" added. It can be useful sometimes, but again, the means for the end-user to gather this information existed prior to this patch. The main difference is that before the user had to take positive steps to find it, whereas now, it is force-fed to the user without his prior knowledge or consent. Nonetheless, I think that members of this board should realize their own bias in favor of Apple, and possibly see that there are many occasions where Apple behaves just as reprehensibly as Microsoft or any other corporation out to make a buck.
     
cybergoober
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Newport News, VA USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2006, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokarak
I think there are two points you are overlooking.

1) If I'm not mistaken, it seems that information is sent whenever a song is played from your library. So, if you start playing one song, as it proceeds down the list, information will be sent for every song played, not just the first song you double-clicked.

This seems to be an underhanded means of obtaining information, specially considering that the helpful little gray arrows next to every song title and artist name directs the user will give the user the same information, if the user wanted to look it up.

2) By doing this data gathering without first informing the user, Apple has clearly lost some trust, even if we had given them our name, CC and address before. Look, just because you used to trust someone before, it does not mean that this trust can not be lost if that person does something to make you distrust him.

As others have noted, if Microsoft had done something exactly like this, most members in this board would be up in arms. Let's recognize that when it comes to Apple, most of the members in this board have some bias. Knowing this, let's proceed and not allow said favorable bias to blind us from what is gonig on here: Apple has knowingly (or accidentally) enacted a system whereby data is sent from your computer, without your prior consent, to themselves and to Akamai. Such data is used to then send back information to your computer, without your consent, about possible selections that you may interest you. This is junk mail. Plain and simple spam that we have not requested/consent/known about before-hand.

It does not matter that is it easy to disable. As others have pointed out, joe average might not easily know that this feature can be disabled. Heck, experienced users in this forum have admitted not realizing how to turn off this feature. As a matter of fact, if you had not read that closing the mini-store would stop the information from being transmitted, would you be confident that simply closing the mini-store would resolve the problem? Moreover, we have no guarantees from Apple that said information will be erased after the recommendations have been made. That is what is going on right now, but can we be confident that their stance will not change in the future?

Sure, now that a lot of people are raising their eyebrows over this issue, Apple will probably issue a statement to the effect that this information was never intended to be stored, blah blah blah. But if no one raised concerns about this behavior, I'm not so sure that Apple would not be inclined to take more use of this information.

I don't think that it is the end of the world that iTunes has this "feature" added. It can be useful sometimes, but again, the means for the end-user to gather this information existed prior to this patch. The main difference is that before the user had to take positive steps to find it, whereas now, it is force-fed to the user without his prior knowledge or consent. Nonetheless, I think that members of this board should realize their own bias in favor of Apple, and possibly see that there are many occasions where Apple behaves just as reprehensibly as Microsoft or any other corporation out to make a buck.
1) You are mistaken. It is only when you highlight a song or album(if you use the browser). Notice that the data in the MiniStore only updates when you click songs/albums. If you set your Library to shuffle the data does not change as the tracks change.

2) I won't argue #2 because I suppose this all just one's opinion/preception. I personally don't believe Apple is harvesting this information. I will concede that this feature should have been documented a bit better.
     
natural1
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 13, 2006, 04:05 PM
 
Not to intrude on the socio-philosophical bent of the thread, but...

I can't get the 'Just for You' feature to go away, even after repeatedly clicking the appropriate link in the iTMS. I also tried trashing the preferences, but that didn't help - in fact it made the link in the iTMS disappear!

Any suggestions?

And now back to our regularly scheduled rant...
     
spatterson
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Reno, Nevada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 14, 2006, 10:48 AM
 
I doesn't bugg me as I can turn it off
     
ShotgunEd
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 14, 2006, 11:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokarak
I think there are two points you are overlooking.

1) If I'm not mistaken, it seems that information is sent whenever a song is played from your library. So, if you start playing one song, as it proceeds down the list, information will be sent for every song played, not just the first song you double-clicked.
as already stated by cybergoober, you are mistaken.
2) By doing this data gathering without first informing the user, Apple has clearly lost some trust, even if we had given them our name, CC and address before. Look, just because you used to trust someone before, it does not mean that this trust can not be lost if that person does something to make you distrust him.
I already stated earlier in the topic that I think they should have prompted on first run. The rest of your argument is moot.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:09 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,